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Blu-ray players sell almost 13:1 against HD DVD
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 23 January, 2008
According to the NPD Group's latest report, Blu-ray players have taken a massive leap in market share. In december Blu-ray players held 60 percent of the high-definition player market, the week after HD DVD camp Blu-ray finished with a huge lead of 93 percent, making this year's market share approximately 70-30 for Blu-ray.
Even though the study only spans one week, the difference is ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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24. January 2008 @ 09:31 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
For the full year of 2007 the standalone breakdown is as follows:
HD DVD - 49%
BluRay - 49%
Dual Format - 2%
This does not include the PS3.
So i guess this put to rest all the claims that Blu-Ray is a gaming format only BS.I bet this is what made Warner make the jump to Blu-Ray without any money.
Originally posted by juankerr:
The above 2007 numbers from NPD demonstrate how totally unreliable amazon rankings are because they're just that - rankings. Amazon's rankings are useless in predicting actual unit sales, volumes and market share. Besides it's only one online retailer.
The Neilsen Video Scan and NPD numbers are gathered from numerous B&M and online sources (including amazon) and are raw point-of-sale numbers. Hence, they are much more reliable.
I never put faith in Amazon numbers because they are not the leading HD retailer so i would take there numbers with a grain of salt no matter how people tried to twist there numbers into there favor.
Great posts juankerr,eatsushi,& error5 thanks for clearing up the big picture to what really going on & not number twisting.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. January 2008 @ 09:34
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Amir89
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24. January 2008 @ 10:07 |
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I like the way Hughjars and the HD-DVD Patrol just completely ignore any facts and figures that show Blu-Ray clearly in the lead when it comes to the format war.
AND YES it is a FORMAT WAR, not a "game console war", what on Earth are you talking about?
Last time I checked these two formats can be played in standalone players, game consoles and PC's, so it is a "Format War" my friend, no need to play on words to make yourself look better.
The point all of you are missing is the amount of financial backing and corporate power the two formats have and how much of a beating they are prepared to take in the format war. It's all about attrition.
You have to see it from that perspective:
The Blu-Ray Disc Association has over 70 members. Their exclusive electronics supporters include:
Sony, Sharp, LG Electronics, Dell, HP, Kenwood, FujiFilm, JVC, Panasonic, Philips, Hitachi, Samsung, compared to the six or so measly manufacturers exclusively backing HD-DVD.
Blu-Ray Disc Association members secured 30.2% of the USA's DVD market share, Sony, Fox and MGM three of their biggest studio supporters own 46.1% of the current title base, when it you look at it from that viewpoint that's a big gap compared to HD-DVD which has as of yet failed to secure anything more 5% of the market share.
The point I'm trying to make is, Blu-Ray has got legs. All of Blu-Ray's associated partners have got the money and the power to keep Blu-Ray alive even when it is losing out on sales. They have stamina, HD-DVD simply can't take such a great loss for so long. And throwing money at HD-DVD is risky at best currently considering they haven't broken even on title sales for a few weeks now.
In the end, no matter how superior or much one format deserves to win it all comes down to money. The Blu-Ray alliance can throw endless amounts of cash to promote and distribute BD without it affecting them while HD-DVD has to rely on customer intuition and knowledge to garner support.
And that's about as effective as relying on Voodoo Curses, considering how intelligent the average consumer is today; they can bought into anything...
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hughjars
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24. January 2008 @ 12:17 |
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Shhhhsh
Nobody mention NPD's connection to Time Warner.
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HDNow
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24. January 2008 @ 12:55 |
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HDs got more players than BluRay. Toshibas better and got more things in their HD players.
HD will win bcause its got more players and more movies and more fans like hugjars. Just see the petitiononline.
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Amir89
Senior Member
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24. January 2008 @ 13:14 |
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Riiight, excellent points there:
-Toshiba IS better.
-They have more standalone players.
-They have more "fans" (i.e. Fanboys on AD).
-And an online petition with 20,000 signatures is enough to convince CEO's and executives to change their market strategy.
I suppose I should believe you because....
your a nice guy?
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juankerr
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24. January 2008 @ 13:17 |
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Originally posted by hughjars:
Nobody mention NPD's connection to Time Warner.
I haven't heard of any connection b/w NPD and Time Warner. Maybe you can provide us a link.
I do know that Toshiba is a big time client of NPD. Jodi Salley, Toshiba's Director of Marketing, Digital A/V Group and one of their speakers at this year's CES, talks about how Toshiba uses NPD's data and services:
http://npd.com/corpServlet?nextpage=clients-accolades_s.html
http://www.npdinsights.com/corp/enewslet...4/close_up.html
Quote:
NPD: From your perspective, what have been the greatest benefits of using NPD sales and marketing information?
Toshiba America Consumer Products (Jodi Sally): NPD information provides a view of the current market situation, based on consumers? purchasing trends. Using the information helps us understand the market environment so we can plan our marketing strategy most effectively.
NPD: How is NPD market information used at different levels at Toshiba?
Toshiba America Consumer Products: As the director of marketing, I use the information not only to track our current performance, but also to plan for the future by watching particular product trends.
NPD: Can you provide a specific example of a challenge that NPD?s market information has helped your company address?
Toshiba America Consumer Products: With NPD?s sales and marketing information, I have been able to track the sales trends by price and features for a specific category. It has been particularly useful in understanding the commodization of the DVD player.
NPD: What would you say to manufacturers or retailers considering NPD?s market information services?
Toshiba America Consumer Products: The service is essential for both marketing executives and product planning. Our NPD Techworld account representative is most knowledgeable about NPD?s services, and has walked me through exercises and tables to get the business solutions I need. She is always available to provide professional, courteous service. Quite frankly, I don?t know what I would have done without her.
I'm sure Toshiba used NPD's standalone data when Toshiba presented this slide at CES 2008:
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juankerr
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25. January 2008 @ 12:49 |
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Amir89
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25. January 2008 @ 13:03 |
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hughjars
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25. January 2008 @ 13:19 |
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LMAO
Well like I said, the revisions and explainations would come soon enough and they have.
Blu-ray sales were not up at all.
Freebie Blu-ray players bundled with TVs were the overwhelming reason why Blu-ray player numbers had a lift.
Naturally after the Warner pledge HD DVD numbers fell
(but as we can see from Amazon USA HD DVD hardware numbers have gone right back up again. - tho you can be pretty sure that there won't be a - highly unusual and irregular - weeks numbers leaked to report that fact).
We can also be certain now that with NPT not recording Walmart's numbers the 90,000 HD DVD units Walmart sold on Black Friday would have comfortably put HD DVD in the lead with hardware sales in 2007.
(the NPD numbers show this as an even split with HD DVD & Blu-ray on 48% with the dual players taking the other 2%).
Quote:
NPD clarifies Blu-ray's market share the week after Warner went Blu
Posted Jan 25th 2008 10:35AM by Ben Drawbaugh
Filed under: Industry, Blu-ray, HD DVD
Some were very quick to crown Blu-ray the winner when we learned that the Blu-ray player owned 93 percent of the HD movie market the week after Warner went Blu.
Evidently the numbers were leaked and the NPD group was quick to respond in an attempt to clear things up. As expected, some we're just as quick to discount the Blu-ray success -- which is just as silly as saying the numbers alone mean Blu-ray has won.
Two things happened that week that we're not so sure could continue forever; HD DVD sales were down, and Blu-ray sales were up.
With some help from a a few promotions (free player with a new TV) -- stand-alone Blu-ray player sales were up 30 percent (22k, up from 15k) -- but this alone wasn't enough to shift HD DVD share from 40 percent down to 7.
HD DVD only sold 1,758 stand-alone players during the same week, compared to 14,558 the week before.
So while Blu-ray was up 30, HD DVD was down 88 percent.
So it isn't that the Blu-ray sales were all that spectacular, but instead it was that HD DVD sales were way down.
At this point it doesn't mean anything, but if it continues for more than a month then that's whole another story entirely.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/25/npd...-went/#comments
Interesting that this weeks numbers show an improvement in the HD DVD movie disc numbers - despite all the efforts of the Blu-ray propaganda machine to shout down anyone who says HD DVD's not dead on every outlet they can.
(Time Warner is NPD's parent company for those who didn't know)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. January 2008 @ 13:20
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juankerr
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25. January 2008 @ 13:34 |
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Originally posted by hughjars:
Interesting that this weeks numbers show an improvement in the HD DVD movie disc numbers
Given the significant price drop on the players (and the amazon rankings) I was expecting HD DVD's number to jump to at least 30% or more - at least something closer to the 60:40 we saw last year.
Quote:
(Time Warner is NPD's parent company for those who didn't know)
I requested a link in my post above. As I've said Toshiba is a big client of NPD and likely supplied their numbers for the CES 2008 presser.
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hughjars
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25. January 2008 @ 14:02 |
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Originally posted by juankerr:
Given the significant price drop on the players (and the amazon rankings) I was expecting HD DVD's number to jump to at least 30% or more - at least something closer to the 60:40 we saw last year.
- Why?
The focus has clearly been on getting players out there for now, not movies (as the emphasis on upscaling ought to have indicated).
With all high def sales so tiny (not even 1% of the annual movie disc total) they are hardly the big deal in any of this right now.
Originally posted by juankerr:
I requested a link in my post above.
- I was something I read recently.
If it's correct & I can prove it with a link I will, if it's not & I can't I will say so.
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goodswipe
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25. January 2008 @ 16:01 |
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BLAH BLAH BLAH, so what, this is the numbers you get when Blu-ray gives away FREE players.
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nopcbs
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26. January 2008 @ 16:27 |
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Originally posted by Franster:
I haven't heard much good about the combo discs myself. I've got quite a few friends who say they crack on the SD side and are only playable on HD. I don't know how they're made or anything like that, but my friend says that he's convinced they must be glued together considering they crack so easily.
I have rented a bunch of dual-sided disks (HD-DVD/DVD) from NetFlix. Every disk gets played both ways. Not one has ever presented a problem in either format. And these are rental disks. Also have several disks I purchased of same type. Again, no problems. As to what your friend says...Huh?
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nopcbs
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26. January 2008 @ 16:35 |
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I really have no idea what those guys at Warner can be thinking. You have two formats. One format's player can be had by the consumer for 1/2 or less the cost of the other's. There is no difference in terms of image quality between the two. Arguably, the less expensive format player has better sound capability and every one of the cheaper player's is easilly upgradable over the internet - not true with the other player. So they go with the more expensive format that will limit sales (many people simply will not pay over $150 for a player...many will not pay over $100) of their movies.
It is an irrational choice. If King Gillette had thought like these guys, we'd still be using straight-edge razors. Dumb. Really dumb.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. January 2008 @ 16:40 |
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Originally posted by nopcbs:
I really have no idea what those guys at Warner can be thinking. You have two formats. One format's player can be had by the consumer for 1/2 or less the cost of the other's. There is no difference in terms of image quality between the two. Arguably, the less expensive format player has better sound capability and every one of the cheaper player's is easilly upgradable over the internet - not true with the other player. So they go with the more expensive format that will limit sales (many people simply will not pay over $150 for a player...many will not pay over $100) of their movies.
It is an irrational choice. If King Gillette had thought like these guys, we'd still be using straight-edge razors. Dumb. Really dumb.
I can see 3 things 1 more space in time, 2 better "protection", 3 BR prices will halve in 15 months.
its the same reason why sony launched the PS3 over priced and took damage to their rep, corporate logic FTW....
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nopcbs
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27. January 2008 @ 07:29 |
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Let's see, we're going into a recession (likely), Wal-Mart buyers are very price sensitive, there are already a Blu Ray players on the market at $280, and Wal-Mart is going to bring out a $250 player? BFD. That is still way too much. When they (or anyone) introduces a Blu Ray player at $150 that is not a piece of junk, come back and let me know. Then I will go out and buy one. Not before.
- nopcbs
Quote:
Originally posted by hughjars:
We also can see plenty of HD DVD owners on the various forums making it clear that their HD DVD players upscale so well that if a movie is unavailable on HD DVD they will simply buy the SD DVD instead
lol, that means absolutely NOTHING. so basically Blu-ray loses out on 1 million consumers (AT BEST, certainly a much lower number) compared to the several HUNDRED MILLION potential consumers. read below as i mention the affordable players hitting the market....
Originally posted by hughjars:
Not only do HD DVD owners have a decent alternative if the movies they want are not available on HD DVD (or HD DVD imports) but this all helps ensure that Blu-ray will not be going anywhere & certainly not escaping the game console niche.
ummm when you think about the recent LEAP in sales and consider the upcoming Walmart Blu-ray player that'll retail for $249, i think Blu-ray is going to escape from your "Game Console Niche" afterall.
hopefully hardware sales don't continue with that ratio for too long as your going to be running out of arguments. lots of luck if blu-ray standalones catch up to hd-dvd numbers.
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nopcbs
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27. January 2008 @ 07:41 |
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The more space thing is (1) not really true as Toshiba keeps upping the capacity of the HD-DVD format and sometimes even exceeds the then-current Blu Ray capacity, and (2) not an issue - who cares except the technology for technoloky sake freaks or people who want rewritable optical storage, both formats have ample storage capacity as it is.
As to "protection" which is to say anti-consumer razor-wire, you are right. And that may very well be it, although at the moment it would be totally insane (cost of media alone) to think about copying any kind of high def DVD...other than the commercial pirates, maybe, and they will not long be disuaded by any copy protection scheme.
As to the price drop, well that would be nice, but it is pure speculation, and while I hope it is true (Let's face it, Sony did win this thing.), I strongly doubt it. The Blu Ray camp may end up winning the battle and losing the war if downloadable HD if Jobs is right. I just know that I will NOT buy any Blu Ray player at over $150.
- nopcbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by nopcbs:
I really have no idea what those guys at Warner can be thinking. You have two formats. One format's player can be had by the consumer for 1/2 or less the cost of the other's. There is no difference in terms of image quality between the two. Arguably, the less expensive format player has better sound capability and every one of the cheaper player's is easilly upgradable over the internet - not true with the other player. So they go with the more expensive format that will limit sales (many people simply will not pay over $150 for a player...many will not pay over $100) of their movies.
It is an irrational choice. If King Gillette had thought like these guys, we'd still be using straight-edge razors. Dumb. Really dumb.
I can see 3 things 1 more space in time, 2 better "protection", 3 BR prices will halve in 15 months.
its the same reason why sony launched the PS3 over priced and took damage to their rep, corporate logic FTW....
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nopcbs
Junior Member
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27. January 2008 @ 07:42 |
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The more space thing is (1) not really true as Toshiba keeps upping the capacity of the HD-DVD format and sometimes even exceeds the then-current Blu Ray capacity, and (2) not an issue - who cares except the technology for technoloky sake freaks or people who want rewritable optical storage, both formats have ample storage capacity as it is.
As to "protection" which is to say anti-consumer razor-wire, you are right. And that may very well be it, although at the moment it would be totally insane (cost of media alone) to think about copying any kind of high def DVD...other than the commercial pirates, maybe, and they will not long be disuaded by any copy protection scheme.
As to the price drop, well that would be nice, but it is pure speculation, and while I hope it is true (Let's face it, Sony did win this thing.), I strongly doubt it. The Blu Ray camp may end up winning the battle and losing the war if downloadable HD if Jobs is right. I just know that I will NOT buy any Blu Ray player at over $150.
- nopcbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by nopcbs:
I really have no idea what those guys at Warner can be thinking. You have two formats. One format's player can be had by the consumer for 1/2 or less the cost of the other's. There is no difference in terms of image quality between the two. Arguably, the less expensive format player has better sound capability and every one of the cheaper player's is easilly upgradable over the internet - not true with the other player. So they go with the more expensive format that will limit sales (many people simply will not pay over $150 for a player...many will not pay over $100) of their movies.
It is an irrational choice. If King Gillette had thought like these guys, we'd still be using straight-edge razors. Dumb. Really dumb.
I can see 3 things 1 more space in time, 2 better "protection", 3 BR prices will halve in 15 months.
its the same reason why sony launched the PS3 over priced and took damage to their rep, corporate logic FTW....
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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18. February 2008 @ 01:56 |
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beachcomr
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25. February 2008 @ 08:24 |
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Does anyone here own a Blue-ray player ? If so ... Do ALL of your movies play with NO problems ? Because I have a Toshiba HD-A30 player and there's several movies that won't play (or some get hung-up at a certain place on the disc)...and when calling Toshiba support...they only say that I should install the latest Firmware version(which I have ! ). and if this doesn't work then I'd have to wait for their technicians(programmers) to program new Firmware to correct these problems individually for each and every movie that is reported as to having problems.
.....Now that Toshiba has pulled out of the 'race'(the HD market) ...I guess this support and firmware updating is now non-existent.
*** Do any Blue-ray Players need constant Firmware upgrades to correct 'playing' issues with particular movies or are the Blue-ray players error-free ?
**** and BTW to the posting ABOVE with the sports car.....
What kind of car is that ??? Can it really do 100MPH in 3.1 sec. ???
Thanks.......Later-from-the-Skater
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