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Toshiba set to launch Blu-ray killer DVD technology
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 30 May, 2008
Citing Toshiba sources, the "Yomiuri Shimbun" newspaper has reported that Toshiba is set to launch a "Blu-ray killing" technology later this year.
The technology, which will be an "extension to the DVD format" will offer comparable video quality to that of current Blu-ray titles and now defunct HD DVD discs. The sources cited even said that the company will begin offering DVD players ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Vr0cK
Newbie
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30. May 2008 @ 14:01 |
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So its like a more advance up-scale dvd player? Maybe since Toshiba lost the format war they want to take down Blu-ray a different way, and old way. Yet i dont think it will provide true-HD like how a Blu-ray player does it.
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ikari
Junior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 14:03 |
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What a great way to keep your existing DVD collection and still transition to a HD format.
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Vr0cK
Newbie
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30. May 2008 @ 14:05 |
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Quote:
What a great way to keep your existing DVD collection and still transition to a HD format.
Completely agree. I just hope the price isnt too far off from regular upscale dvd player.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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30. May 2008 @ 14:17 |
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Like they say, "The opera ain't over till the fat lady sings"
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SDF_GR
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1 product review
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30. May 2008 @ 14:20 |
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Toshiba is on the way to another failure.
They failed with a media as powerful as BD, with players cheaper than DVD's,movies cheap as the DVD's.
Now that the BD hardware is dropping, the FULL HDTV's dropping too, BD having P2.0 and most of the staff that HD-DVD had and BD being still unlocked.....They expect that with an inferior media/format than HD-DVD and more expensive , to beat BD? wtf?
+ HD-DVD was supported by universal, paramount, MS/360. who TF will support this format??
and at the bottom of this....
who will trust them now??? more than one million people saw there money fly away when WB said BD only, are they gonna trust them again?
It looks like a Titan size failure.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 14:56
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eatsushi
Senior Member
3 product reviews
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30. May 2008 @ 14:22 |
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It would be interesting to see how they implement Super-Resolution technology. However, there may be limitations to this:
When Super Resolution Does Not Work
Quote:
Note that super-resolution cannot always provide very good results.
If you've already read how super-resolution works, you know that it uses subpixel accurate motion compensation to find similar areas in neighbor frames in order to intelligenlty merge them combining the details. There are cases when this can't be done successfully or cannot bring new details.
Stills
First of all, if an object doesn't move or change at all, if it's identical in several frames, then there's no additional information to extract. The quality will be as of simple spatial upsize.
Very strong motion or change
Opposite extreme is very fast motion or change. If an object moves too fast, it's difficult to track its motion, and often it becomes blurred due to two reasons. One reason is motion blur - when camera's exposure is set so that object moves a notable distance during shooting of one frame. The other reason is compression. If the video is compressed with a method that uses delta-frames (like MPEG1-2-4, WMV and many others), strong motion creates a lot of differences between frames so the codec quantizes data stronger to fit into required bitrate, so more details are lost on the way.
Just too strong compression
If your video is compressed to a low bitrate, in many cases this is very bad for super-resolution. There are two types of lossy video codecs: those that use delta-frames and those that use only key-frames.
If the video is compressed strongly by a key-frame-only codec like MJPEG (DV is also such codec, but DV video always has high enough bitrate), then each frame is compressed independently and a lot of details are lost in each frame. This usually leads to an artefact called "blocking", you can see it in strongly compressed JPEG images. When an object moves in the video, the blocks don't move, so the object is changing a lot during this motion making it impossible to accurately track its motion and get some details. What you can get from other frames is their blocking artefacts, making picture even worse.
If the video is strongly compressed by a codec with delta-frames (most common codecs), then the codec performs motion compensation, gets the difference between frames and quantizes it losing all details and leaving only major differences. When we try to apply super-resolution, it performs similar motion compensation to use differences between frames and it finds almost no details, only gross changes that cannot be used to improve the frame.
So you could get acceptable results in some instances when the above factors are not in play. However, with an action-filled movie where there are numerous between-frame changes, or if the film was overly compressed, then the results may not be better than simple upconversion.
http://www.thedeemon.com/articles/what_is_super_resolution.html
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 14:26
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Senior Member
28 product reviews
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30. May 2008 @ 14:29 |
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So is this a new format, like a return of a better HD-DVD? Or maybe the beginning of VMD, FVD, or possibly the futuristic UHDV? Anyways, whatever it is I can't wait to get it, because I was just about to buy a Panasonic DMP-BD50 when it hits Canada. I had a feeling Toshiba wasn't going to throw in the towel just yet.
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SDF_GR
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30. May 2008 @ 14:54 |
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The Capacity? What's the capacity?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 14:55
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nobrainer
Suspended permanently
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30. May 2008 @ 14:56 |
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sounds like this may be they way many ppl adopt the HI Def format without having to re-mortgage their homes.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 14:59
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. May 2008 @ 14:59 |
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Originally posted by nobrainer:
sounds like this may be they way many ppl adopt the HI Def format without having to re-mortgage their homes.
Like my assistant Carmen says "Good and Cheap"
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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Member
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30. May 2008 @ 15:08 |
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Not again wish them luck because this is D.O.A before it even launched.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. May 2008 @ 15:10 |
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Originally posted by NexGen76:
Not again wish them luck because this is D.O.A before it even launched.
Maybe not. as my assistant Carmen says "People want Good and Cheap"
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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Senior Member
1 product review
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30. May 2008 @ 15:11 |
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I guess Toshiba was just about to drop HD-DVD since this is to be just as good as hd-dvd. What a joke. Will MS jump on the wagon again and help drag this down quick also? We need Toshiba around, there always has to be a looser. Might as well be them.
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DSWarrior
Junior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 15:28 |
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Toshiba FTW!!! Anyways this super HD war has been going on for far to long...it's about time Toshiba rose from the ashes of HD-DVD and finally do a "fatality" on Blu-Ray...who would pay $400 for a flashy nice looking (on a HD TV) DVD player?...Obviously tons of people...that don't have anything else on which throw their money in!...
Sony should give up already.............
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Newbie
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30. May 2008 @ 15:33 |
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I guess that Toshiba has too much money...It lost 1 Billion with the HD DVD...now this...what they need to do is launch a GAMING SYSTEM with this new "Blu-ray killing" DVD technology. and give the system away for FREE....then it might win......NOT
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Junior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 15:51 |
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Originally posted by DSWarrior:
Toshiba FTW!!! Anyways this super HD war has been going on for far to long...it's about time Toshiba rose from the ashes of HD-DVD and finally do a "fatality" on Blu-Ray...who would pay $400 for a flashy nice looking (on a HD TV) DVD player?...Obviously tons of people...that don't have anything else on which throw their money in!...
Sony should give up already.............
HD war has ended long ago.
How can a person do a 'fatality' if they are already dead?
What about when DVD's came out? You think they started at around $100? You wish buddy.
Why should Sony give up? They won, they beat Toshiba in everything. Blu Ray, HDTV's, Laptops. If anything, Toshiba should just stop. They've become a real shitty company.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 15:51
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Senior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 16:03 |
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this is a good idea now people's old dvds wouldn't look like crap on a HDTV
the only problem is is that they called it a "blu ray killer"
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atomicxl
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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30. May 2008 @ 16:24 |
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Well, i'm assuming the video quality looks like what your typical HD torrent looks like: Worse than a Blu-Ray, better than upscaled DVD. I'm also assuming it'll do upscaling thats at least as good as the PS3. I think the players should also play back a wide variety of media formats so that its got value beyond just purchased discs. I think this format only has a chance if it can compete successfully in two ways:
1) Price. It needs to be cheap. I think $200 would even be too much. They basically need to be selling for clearout HD-DVD Player prices of like $99.99-149.99. I think that over $200 will have people just putting the money aside for a Blu-Ray player. Not only that, but the media needs to be cheap. If the DVD sells for $14.99, this needs to be like $17.99 max.
2) Studio support is critical. If none of the big companies are putting out content its pointless to own one.
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ematrix
Junior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 16:26 |
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It's not a new video format therefore it doesn't need studio support, they're new super upscaling DVD players. If you agree that Toshiba's HD-DVD players produce excelent results upscaling DVDs, rest asure that these new DVD players will produce even better results. Also prices for these players will be similar to current upscaling DVD players, much lower that the cheapest Blu-ray player.
Toshiba's Super Upconversion uses Cell's processors to produce in real-time a 960p true HD image (1920x960). This has been verified and witness by attendants of Toshiba's presentations since late 2007, experts have agreed that the results are outstanding as the resulting image is indeed HD, with no presence of video artefacts.
Toshiba was developing this technology before HD-DVD's demise, it will be implemented in the next line of DVD players and TV sets, and it's targeted for the vast mayority of DVD consumers, who can't afford or aren't willing to switch to Blu-ray, as well for those who preffer other sources such as Digital Downloads, VOD and TV signals.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 16:41
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Member
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30. May 2008 @ 16:43 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by NexGen76:
Not again wish them luck because this is D.O.A before it even launched.
Maybe not. as my assistant Carmen says "People want Good and Cheap"
Thats true but to compare a Superup convert to Blu-Ray is a waste of time.The really story is that BDA has grants licenses to Chinese manufacturers which mean cheaper players on the same level as this player.Plus how can't this player even be on the same level as a BD player when the source hasn't improved at all only the player....Buyer Beware.........!
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varnull
Suspended permanently
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30. May 2008 @ 16:47 |
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blah blah blah... lets face it.. HD is dead in the water. It's too expensive in a world increasingly energy and money conscious.
(apparently that's the right spelling??)
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ematrix
Junior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 17:20 |
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I agree, as consumers are required to invest a lot of money in getting a new Blu-ray player, a new HDTV set and a new HT sound system in order to view Blu-ray movies, which of course you have to repurchase.
In the other hand consumers can choose to buy a super upconversion DVD player, yet aren't required to purchase a new TV set and HT sound system in order to view DVD movies you already own, they can use their current CRT TV sets and HT systems, with the knowledge that these new super upconversion DVD players, will be ready to enhance your viewing experience, if you choose to buy a new TV set.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. May 2008 @ 17:24
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MrXenu
Newbie
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30. May 2008 @ 17:39 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by DSWarrior:
Toshiba FTW!!! Anyways this super HD war has been going on for far to long...it's about time Toshiba rose from the ashes of HD-DVD and finally do a "fatality" on Blu-Ray...who would pay $400 for a flashy nice looking (on a HD TV) DVD player?...Obviously tons of people...that don't have anything else on which throw their money in!...
Sony should give up already.............
HD war has ended long ago.
How can a person do a 'fatality' if they are already dead?
What about when DVD's came out? You think they started at around $100? You wish buddy.
Why should Sony give up? They won, they beat Toshiba in everything. Blu Ray, HDTV's, Laptops. If anything, Toshiba should just stop. They've become a real shitty company.
>How can a person do a 'fatality' if they are already dead?
Toshiba are still a running and functional company, I didn't know they were packing up and ending business!
>What about when DVD's came out? You think they started at around $100?
When DVD came out did it require you to buy a new TV to watch this new definition?
>Why should Sony give up? They won
One its the BDA, not just Sony! Second how come if they wont, DVD sales are still beating BR sales? Clearly they havn't won yet!
>they beat Toshiba in everything. Blu Ray, HDTV's, Laptops
Enjoy your overpriced goods then dear sir!
>If anything, Toshiba should just stop
Why should Toshiba give up?
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Junior Member
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30. May 2008 @ 17:40 |
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well..this is definitely better then buying a blu ray player. although i am all for blu ray in the future, even as it is riddled with DRM, this seems nice.
however the storage space just won't cut it.
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scorpNZ
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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30. May 2008 @ 17:56 |
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Good on ya Toshiba just when Sony & it's fanboys thought they could breathe a sigh of relief..lmao
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