Microsoft has made a statement saying that since they cut the price across the board for their Xbox 360 console, the system has been outselling its rival, the Sony PlayStation 3, by a two-to-one ratio.
Figures from Chart Track seem to back up that statement, saying sale are up 215 percent since the price cut was announced in Europe.
"This data shows that the Xbox 360 trajectory continues ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Sure 30% of the units sold are broken and have skewed the numbers..and they have not fixed the 360 yet...
That's a total exaggeration Zippy. M$ of course won't release the actual figures, but from my experience in the repair shop, nowadays that just ain't true. Also it makes no sense, are you suggesting 30% of new buyers on finding their unit broken go and purchase a new one, inflating the sales figures?
I agree that all price drops produce a surge in sales, that's inevitable, the rest is speculation.
Also I found this, which backs up my previous statement-
As with the PS2 (I went thru two and about seven original controllers) the PS3's rubbish laser assembly will inevitably die, sooner rather than later, after the warranty expires of course. Face it, none of these corporations are motivated to produce a high-quality hard-wearing product. They don't respect your loyalty.
Dude the 360 has had a total fail rate of 90% from assembly line(60% on the line and 30% retail) to the end consumer don't even try to mess with numbers they(MS) themselfs have even admitted were mostly correct.
I am suggesting that 30% of the 360 world wide unit sells totals are fried units and that no more than 30% are in fact rebuys thus skewing the numbers, but look at like this it just goes to show how popular MS has made the 360 despite cocking it up on a grand scale.
With that said the PS3 has a year left to show how well its built as the 20-30 month mark is when hardware faults start rearing its ungly head.
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: WHoever said the the 360 has a 5M lead on the PS3 is a moron, its 10M, total monthly unit sales are fluctuating neck and neck.
Sure 30% of the units sold are broken and have skewed the numbers..and they have not fixed the 360 yet...but the PS3 is still begin held down by its price and the fact its only 10M away from the 360 s a good indication that if you drop the price it will serge sales it will boost it past the 360 on a world wide scale rather quickly..
Wiki states otherwise Zippy ;). Now that is just 1 reference as the NPD #'s support these numbers along with others. Also PS3 sales are exactly that, sold to customers NOTshipped to stores. Year to Year the PS3 has outsold the 360 and 2008 shows it following the same trend. Also in the Wiki it states "Worldwide = 14.41 million as of June 30, 2008" So the rough estimates are at about 16 million+ to the 360's 20.9 million. Plus when you look at each market independently the "whole" overview and perception shows something different than most like to say or admit to & so vehemently beleive.
Wii-
1st Europe
1st Japan
1st America
PS3-
2nd Europe
2nd Japan
3rd America
360-
2nd America
3rd Europe
3rd Japan
Wii = 1st with all 1st places
PS3 = 2nd with 2 / 2nd places & 1 3rd (but gaining every month)
360 = 3rd with 2 / 3rd places and 1 / 2nd (losing ground every month & dead RROD 360's being counted as working consoles = funny #'s ~ FACT)
Just because MS "might" have more overall consoles sold than the PS3 (in one market) doesn't mean it's really ahead. Lastly I thought I'd add some other numbers for thought. When you take into consideration the Metacritic scores in comparison to the 360 & PS3 you will find that while yes the 360 has more titles available for it (being released 1 year ahead and a bit easier to program for) there is a higher percentage of low scoring 360 games.
Quote:360 Metacritic - 200 titles out of 476 under a 66 score = 42%
PS3 Metacritic - 66 titles out of 240 under a 66 score = 26%
This in conjunction with more First party, exclusive & AAA games coming out for the PS3 now until the end of the year (LBP, RFOM 2, MS2, Socom, Home etc.) and others lined up for 2009 (KZ2, FF & vs13, GoW3, Heavy Rain, inFamous, possibly GT5 and more) it's looking pretty good for Sony & PS3 owners.
Now that's not to say the 360 will fail & do bad. Especially with the popularity of GeoW2 & Fable 2 plus the fall update, but MS needs more than 2 major titles to tide them through 2008 into 2009.
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: WHoever said the the 360 has a 5M lead on the PS3 is a moron, its 10M, total monthly unit sales are fluctuating neck and neck.
Sure 30% of the units sold are broken and have skewed the numbers..and they have not fixed the 360 yet...but the PS3 is still begin held down by its price and the fact its only 10M away from the 360 s a good indication that if you drop the price it will serge sales it will boost it past the 360 on a world wide scale rather quickly..
Wiki states otherwise Zippy ;). Now that is just 1 reference as the NPD #'s support these numbers along with others. Also PS3 sales are exactly that, sold to customers NOTshipped to stores. Year to Year the PS3 has outsold the 360 and 2008 shows it following the same trend. Also in the Wiki it states "Worldwide = 14.41 million as of June 30, 2008" So the rough estimates are at about 16 million+ to the 360's 20.9 million. Plus when you look at each market independently the "whole" overview and perception shows something different than most like to say or admit to & so vehemently beleive.
Wii-
1st Europe
1st Japan
1st America
PS3-
2nd Europe
2nd Japan
3rd America
360-
2nd America
3rd Europe
3rd Japan
Wii = 1st with all 1st places
PS3 = 2nd with 2 / 2nd places & 1 3rd (but gaining every month)
360 = 3rd with 2 / 3rd places and 1 / 2nd (losing ground every month & dead RROD 360's being counted as working consoles = funny #'s ~ FACT)
Just because MS "might" have more overall consoles sold than the PS3 (in one market) doesn't mean it's really ahead. Lastly I thought I'd add some other numbers for thought, when you take into consideration the metacritic scores in comparison to the 360 & PS3 you will find that while yes the 360 has more titles available for it being released 1 year ahead and a bit easier to program for there are more low scores in percentage to how many 360 games.
Quote:360 Metacritic - 200 titles out of 476 under a 66 score = 42%
PS3 Metacritic - 66 titles out of 240 under a 66 score = 26%
This in conjunction with more First party, exclusive & AAA games coming out for the PS3 now until the end of the year (LBP, RFOM 2, MS2, Socom, Home etc.) and others lined up for 2009 (KZ2, FF & vs13, GoW3, Heavy Rain, inFamous, possibly GT5 and more) it's looking pretty good for Sony & PS3 owners.
I never listen to reviews they are bad for you. *lick* :P
Last I checked(gamechartz and a couple other places) the 360 is at 32M units sold ( thats consoles), the PS3 is 21M, also the 360 had a higher attach rate, what the current attach rate for the PS3/360?
Not saying the PS3 is not doing well its doing well but the 360 is was still alil ahead of it.
Mmm double check it in IE...ok that makes scene fire fox is mis alineing gamecharts...for some strange reason its all fcked up in FF, in IE the 32M is the WII >< 21/15 for the 360/PS3.
Still it just shows the PS3 is doing well enough and the 360 maintaining regardless.
Quote:I never listen to reviews they are bad for you. *lick* :P
Actually I agree 100% as I have always been one for renting or trying demos to make my own conclusions but Metacritic is still a pretty good reference point for discussion.
I have never heard of GameChartz (can you post a direct link) but those numbers seem WAAAY overestimated.
Edit: whoops looks like you had some technical difficulties with FF
It's not FF.. I had a look at the page source and they have made a mess of the itables :) Doesn't display properly in any browser but IE.. so another case of M$ producing non standards compliant software and lazy site builders who can't code for crap ;)
I'm still doubtful of these reported figures.. M$ say.. hahaha.. My pal at Game reports that there has been no change in the monthly unit sales for the 360, with the Wii still miles ahead, 360 second and the ps3 selling about 2 a week.. usually because somebody wants a blu player rather than a games console. I don't know where the ps3 figures come from, but I suspect they are units shipped to distributors rather than units sold over the counter.
Silly season is near, and that will tell us what people are going to buy this year.
Originally posted by varnull: It's not FF.. I had a look at the page source and they have made a mess of the itables :) Doesn't display properly in any browser but IE.. so another case of M$ producing non standards compliant software and lazy site builders who can't code for crap ;)
I'm still doubtful of these reported figures.. M$ say.. hahaha.. My pal at Game reports that there has been no change in the monthly unit sales for the 360, with the Wii still miles ahead, 360 second and the ps3 selling about 2 a week.. usually because somebody wants a blu player rather than a games console. I don't know where the ps3 figures come from, but I suspect they are units shipped to distributors rather than units sold over the counter.
Silly season is near, and that will tell us what people are going to buy this year.
It was working fine a few months ago.
I'd say knock 5% off all their numbers.
ah heres an old post of mine about attach rates
Quote:Xbox 360: Software sales ratio: 7.5
Wii: Software sales ratio: 5.3
PS3: Software sales ratio: 4.6
Now let?s look at the real numbers
WII total software sales 5X 32M= 160M games total
PS3 total software sales 5X 15M=75M
360 total software sales 7X20M = 140 games total now further add the 30% fail rate into the mix you have a real number of 98M(7X14M) to 140M(7X20M) real figures would be in between so 120ishM sounds about right, you cannot ignore that 30% of units for almost 3 years have had the high fail rate because you have millions of units worldwide that are made of fail and wank?like what the PS3 execs where drinking when they launched the PS3 and realized it was 300$ to much?..
You add up it and more and the 7.X attach rate the 360 has is more like 5.X(20M of 360 units sold) and if you think about it more that?s on about 30% less of the units reported worldwide which is not bad at all, all things considered.
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Dude the 360 has had a total fail rate of 90% from assembly line(60% on the line and 30% retail) to the end consumer don't even try to mess with numbers they(MS) themselfs have even admitted were mostly correct.
I am suggesting that 30% of the 360 world wide unit sells totals are fried units and that no more than 30% are in fact rebuys thus skewing the numbers, but look at like this it just goes to show how popular MS has made the 360 despite cocking it up on a grand scale.
With that said the PS3 has a year left to show how well its built as the 20-30 month mark is when hardware faults start rearing its ungly head.
Ah, there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Sorry Zippy I know you told me not to mess with the numbers... but I just can't help myself. :)
90% fail hey, well I guess I shouldn't accuse you of exaggerating after all. Lol. How about a link to a reliable dispassionate source for that outrageous number, and the source where M$ admits to that?
Let's be a little less simplistic than what that glib figure implies. Let's take the numbers literally as is (as if they were true). 6 out of 10 X360s fail in the factory (a number any corporation would find fiscally unacceptable), that means that the remaining 4 (out of ten) of those are presumably sold (retail). You can't count those 60% because a malfunctioning fresh-out-of-the-box X360 will be immediately replaced by the store- a minute inconvenience to the buyer. Of those 4, three (30% of 10) are failing. Which means, according to you, 75% of working X360s sold are bricking! A number I have not heard anywhere.
Ok, let's assume that you got it a bit wrong and confused sales with manufacture- 30% of X360s actually sold are failing (still, you reckon), well that still brings the number down. 30% of 4 equals 1.33. Thus 7.33 (6 plus 1.33) out of ten X360's manufactured are failing. Or 73.3% of X360s made fry, not 90%.
So if you can't qualify the numbers properly- a major problem with statistic quotations- how do you you expect people to accept your arguments on say "attach rates" especially when you don't explain what these terms mean to the lay person. And- please don't take this personally, coz I don't see you as a fanboy- in clear ungarbled syntax. It makes it seem as if you're trying to intimidate the reader into agreeing with you. Like "blinding them with science" with tendentious pompousness.
Alright, so a percentage (presumably under 30%) of new X360 sales per month are "rebuys", I guess that means bought as replacements, skewering the figures. This is after 3 years (because of the warranty)!! I'm not even going to attempt to try and shoehorn these numbers-over-time together on these pages- too many assumptions and not enough room. But I can tell you that, yes skewered but insignificantly because of the 3yr warranty.
It hardly matters anyway, 3 years may be considered acceptable. My ver3 PS2 lasted about that, and that was considered a record in my repair shop. That was, of course, before my "rebuy" skewering the sales figures for Playstation for that month.
You might consider that "despite cocking it up on a grand scale" (and I agree with that) it's not M$ that made the X360 popular but the games and the quality of gameplay it has. Because, though unreliable as the old models are, it is still a brilliant machine... when it's working. :P
So "with that said", we are getting PS3s with optical drive problems into our repair shop NOW, as I said before. Lol. Still, I have to admit, I wasn't surprised- after spying the innards of an early customer's PS3 (courtesy of an irate girlfriend). A bit too like the PS2's.
Originally posted by Oner: Wii = 1st with all 1st places
PS3 = 2nd with 2 / 2nd places & 1 3rd (but gaining every month)
360 = 3rd with 2 / 3rd places and 1 / 2nd (losing ground every month & dead RROD 360's being counted as working consoles = funny #'s ~ FACT)
Just because MS "might" have more overall consoles sold than the PS3 (in one market) doesn't mean it's really ahead. Lastly I thought I'd add some other numbers for thought. When you take into consideration the Metacritic scores in comparison to the 360 & PS3 you will find that while yes the 360 has more titles available for it (being released 1 year ahead and a bit easier to program for) there is a higher percentage of low scoring 360 games.
Quote:360 Metacritic - 200 titles out of 476 under a 66 score = 42%
PS3 Metacritic - 66 titles out of 240 under a 66 score = 26%
This in conjunction with more First party, exclusive & AAA games coming out for the PS3 now until the end of the year (LBP, RFOM 2, MS2, Socom, Home etc.) and others lined up for 2009 (KZ2, FF & vs13, GoW3, Heavy Rain, inFamous, possibly GT5 and more) it's looking pretty good for Sony & PS3 owners.
Now that's not to say the 360 will fail & do bad. Especially with the popularity of GeoW2 & Fable 2 plus the fall update, but MS needs more than 2 major titles to tide them through 2008 into 2009.
Now I know you Mods are tough cookies, so I want to preface this by saying that AD is a grand site. It's one of my favorites. It's helped me out technically many times as well as being really informative and well set out.
Ok, "...dead RROD 360's being counted as working consoles = funny #'s ~ FACT...". Is M$ counting a sale (at least) twice if the first console is not functioning?
Your numbers for thought- reality check, let's obliterate some percentages for the mo:
200 titles out of 476 under a 66 score, means 276 titles over 66% score for the X360.
66 titles out of 240 under a 66 score, means 174 titles over 66% score for the PS3.
(I assume the 66% score is based on a number of unbiased peoples opinions not just one).
That leaves a difference of 102 more titles, scoring over 66%, for the X360 over the PS3.
Or to put it another way, reintroducing percentages again, 58.62% more quality titles for the X360 than the PS3. Assuming quality games have longevity, that's excellent for X360 owners. I know I still have to get around to playing a few.
So what if there is a greater ratio of poor games to good on the 360? There is still almost 60% more quality titles on the 360. My time, my life is not measured as a ratio.
Even given that the X360 had a year's start on the PS3... it's how many years since they first started? It's subjective but you might say that $ony has a lot more catching up to do.
Given the handful of titles you've given us leading up to the end of 2008, it won't make much of a dent in 102+ X360 ones. I hope that it pans out for those titles tho. Being one who doesn't care for reviews and whom having "...always been one for renting or trying demos to make my own conclusions..." I'm sure you're not much into the AAA pre-hype either. You've been disappointed before... we all have.
But having said all that, $ony have always had a great track record in producing quality exclusives, better than M$ imo. So I might just end up getting a PS3 in a couple of years or so. It sure won't be 2nd hand tho.
Realistically, it all comes down to the actual game that you want to play, doesn't it? And that's pretty personal. Just ask a WII owner. :)
Yes, but again that would only be because the 360 has been out longer and is a bit easier to develop for. My point was mainly about how people say the 360 has "oh so many more games" but a greater proportion are just bad.
It had a 60% fail rate on the assembly line now add up the 30% fail rate on the units out on the shefls its rather some nasty stuff no wonder MS spent billions on fixing the situation.
Now is the fail rate still 30% probably not and has not been that high for a year or so but you still have millions of bad units in play a patch job on the newer designs that dose not really account for all the over heating issues I am sorry but this makes sonys lil DRE problems both past and present a mole hill compared to the mountain of troubles MS brought on itself by not testing the 360 properly.
So I can say that 30% of the total 360 numbers are skewed why? Because MS can skew the numbers themselfs to pad them, Because you can count the refurbished units as sales and MS has a mountain load of them. But there again it shows brand loyalty to keep buying what is broken.
So what with the 30% the 360 is 2ishM behind the PS3 on unit sales you have a ton of sht sold with thos units and even if you lessen their over all numbers its still 2nd to the WII in numbers and profit.
I can't really put the PS3 in 2nd place, unless the attach rate boosts itself to 8+ the PS3 will just have to surpass the current 360 unit sales and it might just do that in a year since I do not see the 360 getting a huge boot in sales as they have saturated the market well and the PS3 has more surge potential regarding price drops.
Originally posted by Oner: Yes, but again that would only be because the 360 has been out longer and is a bit easier to develop for. My point was mainly about how people say the 360 has "oh so many more games" but a greater proportion are just bad.
Ok, I'm given to understand the X360 is a lot easier to program for, not a "bit". Given the delays that GTA IV experienced I would say this was so. Sony had a contract with Rockstar to release the PS3 ver at the same time as the 360's. The upshot was that the res and the framerate are ended up lower on the PS3.
I got your point, but mine was that it was spurious. To iterate, the X360 has a greater proportion of good games than the PS3- almost two thirds more. Full stop. After only a year's head start that's a lot. :P
Originally posted by Oner: Yes, but again that would only be because the 360 has been out longer and is a bit easier to develop for. My point was mainly about how people say the 360 has "oh so many more games" but a greater proportion are just bad.
Ok, I'm given to understand the X360 is a lot easier to program for, not a "bit". Given the delays that GTA IV experienced I would say this was so. Sony had a contract with Rockstar to release the PS3 ver at the same time as the 360's. The upshot was that the res and the framerate are ended up lower on the PS3.
I got your point, but mine was that it was spurious. To iterate, the X360 has a greater proportion of good games than the PS3- almost two thirds more. Full stop. After only a year's head start that's a lot. :P
Ya but once the coding issues get dealt with the industry as a whole will be able to code for it quicker and between the better hardware and optimized code it will last longer.
Don't get me wrong all MS has to do is stick a BR drive in it optimize the board alil for better HDMI output add a alil more ramm, sell it for the same price as now and its all good till the end of this generation. I think they would be better of with a 1.5 "upgrade" than bringing out a whole 2.0 new system in a couple years...
It had a 60% fail rate on the assembly line now add up the 30% fail rate on the units out on the shefls its rather some nasty stuff no wonder MS spent billions on fixing the situation.
Now is the fail rate still 30% probably not and has not been that high for a year or so but you still have millions of bad units in play a patch job on the newer designs that dose not really account for all the over heating issues I am sorry but this makes sonys lil DRE problems both past and present a mole hill compared to the mountain of troubles MS brought on itself by not testing the 360 properly.
So I can say that 30% of the total 360 numbers are skewed why? Because MS can skew the numbers themselfs to pad them, Because you can count the refurbished units as sales and MS has a mountain load of them. But there again it shows brand loyalty to keep buying what is broken.
So what with the 30% the 360 is 2ishM behind the PS3 on unit sales you have a ton of sht sold with thos units and even if you lessen their over all numbers its still 2nd to the WII in numbers and profit.
I can't really put the PS3 in 2nd place, unless the attach rate boosts itself to 8+ the PS3 will just have to surpass the current 360 unit sales and it might just do that in a year since I do not see the 360 getting a huge boot in sales as they have saturated the market well and the PS3 has more surge potential regarding price drops.
Thanks for the link to the excellent article mate. Really worthwhile reading. However,absolutely nowhere are the figures that you've been stating mentioned, much less M$ agreeing to them. Yeah, they're in the posts, not the article though.
Whilst not as bad as RRoD problems for the 360 you underestimate just how bad the BluRay of Death problems will be in the PS3. If it's a repeat of the PS2's story, and it looks like it will be, it will be huge- virtually no PS3 undergoing fair use will be functioning after 3 years without repair. Will $ony get away with it again...probably.
You haven't seen the giant pile of dud PS2's out the back of our repair shop. You haven't seen the number of customers that upon hearing the cost of repair just went out and bought a replacement.
I have a friend building a museum of consoles, can he find a working fat PS2? ...no.
I reckon your analysis is skewered. Was it simplistically stupid brand loyalty that kept poeple coming back "to keep buying what is broken" in regards to replacing their PS2s. Or was it the catalog of games that they had accumulated over time? Reread the last few lines of that article you provided the link to.
We have all heard the horror stories of RRoD. But perhaps people have kept coming back to "rebuy" coz your numbers are simply exaggerated. It seems to be that the real real problem is that M$ keep returning machines to customers that keep duding. This is sheer utter idiocy on their part, they might have been able to contain the outrage if they had just send back properly tested reliable models. But they greedily shortsightedly cheapened on the manufacturing processes. So maybe it wasn't the testing in the long run, just cheap-skating and typical big corporate arrogance.
Another thing, are the "giveaways" of PS3s to customers who buy a $ony TV or a phone plan counted as sales?? Do you factor those into your equations? Heaven forbid that $ony would be accused of padding the figures.
Face it, the X360, is an excellent games console with an excellent line up of games- that suffers from a crap manufacturing process and poor management.
Btw, ask yourself, in reference to that guys article, what ever happened to the Sega Dreamcast or the Amiga? Both squandered legacies.
It had a 60% fail rate on the assembly line now add up the 30% fail rate on the units out on the shefls its rather some nasty stuff no wonder MS spent billions on fixing the situation.
Now is the fail rate still 30% probably not and has not been that high for a year or so but you still have millions of bad units in play a patch job on the newer designs that dose not really account for all the over heating issues I am sorry but this makes sonys lil DRE problems both past and present a mole hill compared to the mountain of troubles MS brought on itself by not testing the 360 properly.
So I can say that 30% of the total 360 numbers are skewed why? Because MS can skew the numbers themselfs to pad them, Because you can count the refurbished units as sales and MS has a mountain load of them. But there again it shows brand loyalty to keep buying what is broken.
So what with the 30% the 360 is 2ishM behind the PS3 on unit sales you have a ton of sht sold with thos units and even if you lessen their over all numbers its still 2nd to the WII in numbers and profit.
I can't really put the PS3 in 2nd place, unless the attach rate boosts itself to 8+ the PS3 will just have to surpass the current 360 unit sales and it might just do that in a year since I do not see the 360 getting a huge boot in sales as they have saturated the market well and the PS3 has more surge potential regarding price drops.
Thanks for the link to the excellent article mate. Really worthwhile reading. However,absolutely nowhere are the figures that you've been stating mentioned, much less M$ agreeing to them. Yeah, they're in the posts, not the article though.
Whilst not as bad as RRoD problems for the 360 you underestimate just how bad the BluRay of Death problems will be in the PS3. If it's a repeat of the PS2's story, and it looks like it will be, it will be huge- virtually no PS3 undergoing fair use will be functioning after 3 years without repair. Will $ony get away with it again...probably.
You haven't seen the giant pile of dud PS2's out the back of our repair shop. You haven't seen the number of customers that upon hearing the cost of repair just went out and bought a replacement.
I have a friend building a museum of consoles, can he find a working fat PS2? ...no.
I reckon your analysis is skewered. Was it simplistically stupid brand loyalty that kept poeple coming back "to keep buying what is broken" in regards to replacing their PS2s. Or was it the catalog of games that they had accumulated over time? Reread the last few lines of that article you provided the link to.
We have all heard the horror stories of RRoD. But perhaps people have kept coming back to "rebuy" coz your numbers are simply exaggerated. It seems to be that the real real problem is that M$ keep returning machines to customers that keep duding. This is sheer utter idiocy on their part, they might have been able to contain the outrage if they had just send back properly tested reliable models. But they greedily shortsightedly cheapened on the manufacturing processes. So maybe it wasn't the testing in the long run, just cheap-skating and typical big corporate arrogance.
Another thing, are the "giveaways" of PS3s to customers who buy a $ony TV or a phone plan counted as sales?? Do you factor those into your equations? Heaven forbid that $ony would be accused of padding the figures.
Face it, the X360, is an excellent games console with an excellent line up of games- that suffers from a crap manufacturing process and poor management.
Btw, ask yourself, in reference to that guys article, what ever happened to the Sega Dreamcast or the Amiga? Both squandered legacies.
In that article no it tells you the numbers, and MS dose not contest the numbers, and in previous arti9lces has pretty much agreed with them.
There is no doubt that the 360 has had a quarter of its units go bust to question it is to be drinking the "koolaid" out of MSs dck. As far as I have seen or heard from friends and acquaintances some of which repair consoles more than I use to fool with is a mountain compared to what the PS3 might be. Hell MS even did a poor build job on the old Xbox, I'll take lens/drive issues over heat dispensation issues any day!
BTW I say my numbers are up to 30% and looking at the wealth of information and rumors its more than likely true, why else would they go above and beyond to extend the warranty by what 3000%(on a 30 day warranty basis) because they screwed up and its beats being taken to court by an enrage populace.
So please do not even try and down play the disaster of the 360 fail rates, it makes you look more foolish than someone padding them alil.
From my experience owning the 360 its broken for one and I am not the only one to go through 3 or 4 units, the games are mostly "acquired" PC titles with the mass majority of titles being bargain bin crap, its almost suffers from the PS2 being awash in cheap poorly made games only it dose not have as many great titles.
I will say this its gained enough devserity in its titles over the last year or so to make me want to own one again but frankly quality and control options in console games are retarded and I would rather not waste so much money on 5 or 15 games its just not worth the price and I can say this for the PS3 and WII as well I have had them all long enough to more than understand how publishers are having games developed in this short sighted mass disposable world market.
Hell if Halo ep 3 was not...well....Halo ep 3 but a solid and well built FPS like one was I would have kept my 360 crap but good god 8-10 hours of SP time for a 60$ game...no never again will I pay 40+ for a limited and short sighted product.
I might be a crazy and jaded gamer nazi but it beats being a self wanking fanboy every time!
LOL
BTW I am not calling you a fanboy...yet *lick* =^_~=
It comes down to this if you believe the fail rate on the 360 is NOT around a quarter of its total unit sales then you are without a question a raveing fan boy, its as simple as that.
The PS3 has an industry average (if not lower) percentage of acceptable failures (as well as the Wii). There is absolutely no proof to your opinion of the PS3 having a wide scale problem.
I have a launch day Fat PS2 that is STILL working as well as know a few family members with theirs still working. You cannot compare the PS2 fail rates to the 360's
Quote:the PS2's failure %'s where still within an acceptable industry standard. The only reason why it "seemed" like a lot is because
In reference to your earlier reply about GTA4 on PS3
Quote:The upshot was that the res and the framerate are ended up lower on the PS3.
While that is true the consensus is the PS3 version plays and still looks better at a slightly lower resolution; this coupled with the 360's pop in issue & load times just confirms it.
But we are getting off topic (here and there) so please feel free to reply but we really should discuss off topic stuff elsewhere.
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Ya but once the coding issues get dealt with the industry as a whole will be able to code for it quicker and between the better hardware and optimized code it will last longer.
Don't get me wrong all MS has to do is stick a BR drive in it optimize the board alil for better HDMI output add a alil more ramm, sell it for the same price as now and its all good till the end of this generation. I think they would be better of with a 1.5 "upgrade" than bringing out a whole 2.0 new system in a couple years...
Why ever think the the X360 has less potential for game development than the PS3? Why because the PS3 is more radical, more powerful? Whoever designed the thing shut game programmers out the door (again)! The X360's GPU is superior to the PS3s with super fast cashes involved, it's memory architecture isn't split between the GPU and the CPU, so less bottlenecks. And talking of the CPUs, they are both modified Xeons, the difference being that the PS3 has only one general purpose instruction core, where the 360 has three! The other six cores are for floating point calcs only, and game programmers don't give a stuff about greater FP calcs over general instruction capacity. Given that the CPU of the X360 has a GI set specifically designed around game programming (eg branch predictors, gofetch commands etc.) how does that above argument hold water? You can't build a mansion on a shaky foundation.. Put it another way, say my PC has a better CPU but only a nVidia 8600gt compared to my mates 9600gt gfx. Which machine do you think is going to have the better graphics...? Do you think he would swap his PC for mine...? Like hell he would... it's a no-brainer! In the final analysis it comes down to the actual games you want to play! Go retro for all I care, but don't tell me an over-blown BluRay software decoding player has more potential as a games platform over one that was designed for the job. Ahem.
I know programming, and there is no reason that the X360s code can't be optimised further in the future.
What's this about needing better HDMI? I run it and a number of other HDMI devices on a 50" screen at home- no difference... what rubbish. Why does the 360 need more ram than the PS3- more lines of code are needed to achieve similar results on the PS3 anyway, regardless of optimisation. RAM was doubled in later models of the original Xbox (coz of manufacturing costs) and did it make a jot of difference? ...no? Why? Because the game's code is (unlike in PCs) "bulletproofed"- only written with that amount ram in mind. The RAM table is directly addressed not indirectly, the reason why consoles are more efficient with what they have than PCs. And why should it need crap software BluRay over a independent dedicated hardware decoding device, to make it more attractive?
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Ya but once the coding issues get dealt with the industry as a whole will be able to code for it quicker and between the better hardware and optimized code it will last longer.
Don't get me wrong all MS has to do is stick a BR drive in it optimize the board alil for better HDMI output add a alil more ramm, sell it for the same price as now and its all good till the end of this generation. I think they would be better of with a 1.5 "upgrade" than bringing out a whole 2.0 new system in a couple years...
Why ever think the the X360 has less potential for game development than the PS3? Why because the PS3 is more radical, more powerful? Whoever designed the thing shut game programmers out the door (again)! The X360's GPU is superior to the PS3s with super fast cashes involved, it's memory architecture isn't split between the GPU and the CPU, so less bottlenecks. And talking of the CPUs, they are both modified Xeons, the difference being that the PS3 has only one general purpose instruction core, where the 360 has three! The other six cores are for floating point calcs only, and game programmers don't give a stuff about greater FP calcs over general instruction capacity. Given that the CPU of the X360 has a GI set specifically designed around game programming (eg branch predictors, gofetch commands etc.) how does that above argument hold water? You can't build a mansion on a shaky foundation.. Put it another way, say my PC has a better CPU but only a nVidia 8600gt compared to my mates 9600gt gfx. Which machine do you think is going to have the better graphics...? Do you think he would swap his PC for mine...? Like hell he would... it's a no-brainer! In the final analysis it comes down to the actual games you want to play! Go retro for all I care, but don't tell me an over-blown BluRay software decoding player has more potential as a games platform over one that was designed for the job. Ahem.
I know programming, and there is no reason that the X360s code can't be optimised further in the future.
What's this about needing better HDMI? I run it and a number of other HDMI devices on a 50" screen at home- no difference... what rubbish. Why does the 360 need more ram than the PS3- more lines of code are needed to achieve similar results on the PS3 anyway, regardless of optimisation. RAM was doubled in later models of the original Xbox (coz of manufacturing costs) and did it make a jot of difference? ...no? Why? Because the game's code is (unlike in PCs) "bulletproofed"- only written with that amount ram in mind. The RAM table is directly addressed not indirectly, the reason why consoles are more efficient with what they have than PCs. And why should it need crap software BluRay over a independent dedicated hardware decoding device, to make it more attractive?
Oy........you do realize games are getting bigger and you can not have a MP game to be on multi discs....new games are also needing more power than what the old 360 design can properly handle.... ....
Lets go with a simple comparasion of the 360 and PS3, and before I start the 360 was build with PC style programming in mind, it starts ahead of the PS3 in the short run but cannot gain as much momentum from its code updates like the PS3 can over a longer period of time.
Right now a lot of the gen1 issues like loading/caching have been dealt with, but the main trouble is the disc speed and the ramm.
360 Bottlenecks/limits
DVD format:face it its a problem, MP based games that require more disc space will be limited.
HD limits:MS stupid ieda to try and lock the HD back fired.
HDMI interfacing/chipset(its "bad" for Hdef video):At least everything I have read leads me to believe it could more refining
PS3
Code:Is a bitch to code for, but when optimized runs better than normal code on the 360.
Ramm:Not enough of it but fast enough to compensate for it this becomes less a problem as code gets optimized.
Disc speed:T0 slow and OTF caching seems wishy washy even at this time thus you need to install data.
The reason why you want to boost the 360 some is so new games can take advantage of the 1.5 features, you allow devs to make BR games let them invest in Extended editions of the game on BR along side the DVD version some will chose to not bother with a DVD version.
Now if MS would drop the locked HDD scheme and sale a 50$ or less HDD kit that can put most HDD types on the 360 then they can install 10-30GB worth of game data on them keeping the saves and scores separate.
And I say this to keep the 360 going for the next 5 years, as it is now the 360 is showing its age and will not last another 2-3 years, hell in that time frame the PS3 will position itself for the number 2 slot on sales so MS will have 2 choices revamp the 360 to fight it out for another 2-4 years or bring out a new console and no one really wants to see a new console out just yet.......
Altho if it didn't have a HDD lock, had BR, could play Xbox and 360 titles nativity AND can fully customize control on a pad or mouse and or keyboard in the menu(with preset lists) I would be sold here's my 600$!
But as it is the 360 is feeling its age it might have a few years left but its got issues, the WII was never built on graphics and being a media center so it dose not matter what it is since its squashing everyone.
The PS3 has issues as well but it has higher to go as its hardware foundation is higher than the 360s and can maintain in market longer.
Hell if MS just unlocked the HDD and do something about control configuration that bypasses devs crappy cookie cutter layouts I'd buy a new 360 just for that...
Quote:I have a friend building a museum of consoles, can he find a working fat PS2? ...no.
Cash Converters, Wigan.. 20+ in stock.. 60 day warranty £44.99. Some even still have the original box and manual.
Same here.. I have a stack of ps2's which are in the "uneconomic to repair" heap. I sell the odd part to somebody from time to time.. but soon they will all go to landfill.
I have 2 xbox machines with dead everything... because of the pretty stock parts they can be cannabalised to a greater extent than the ps2... And I'm an xbox modder/repairer.. the ps2 was because people brought them to me... found out the price of a new laser and just went and bought a £45 one.
The 360 failure rates are in line with the electronics industry standard 0.03% of items which leave the factory, and 0.3% of total units made before QC.. otherwise they would stop making them until they solved the problem.
Of the millions sold how many have never ever given any problems whatsoever? The vast majority. I do think that the overall build quality is poor.. especially the very cheap and nasty dvd drives, and the cooling is borderline.. But to say that 90% have failed is ridiculous.. No manufacturer can sustain a 5% failure rate, let alone 90%. Much of the shouting about failure is people jumping on the bandwagon when their tampered with ebay purchase goes wrong within weeks.
I have seen one person insist on buying rrod 360's on ebay over and over looking for the "easy fix".. failing (because they know bugger all about electronics.. can't even fix a van alternator) miserably and then selling it back on ebay.. only 6 months later to buy the exact same console again after it has been messed about with by another 6 people in the meantime.
We are starting to see the first of the ps3's with disk drive failure.. soon the floodgates will open and we will be back in ps2 world all over again.... except this time.. I'm not going to build a heap of them out the back. They don't stack so nice.
Originally posted by Jemborg: The X360's GPU is superior to the PS3s with super fast cashes involved, it's memory architecture isn't split between the GPU and the CPU, so less bottlenecks.
While the 360's "graphics card" (Xenos) in itself may be more powerful than the PS3's "graphics card" (RSX) you omit the fact that the Cell HELPS in this area so in the end it is the other way around...well, if utilized properly that is ;).
Quote:I have a friend building a museum of consoles, can he find a working fat PS2? ...no.
Cash Converters, Wigan.. 20+ in stock.. 60 day warranty £44.99. Some even still have the original box and manual.
Same here.. I have a stack of ps2's which are in the "uneconomic to repair" heap. I sell the odd part to somebody from time to time.. but soon they will all go to landfill.
I have 2 xbox machines with dead everything... because of the pretty stock parts they can be cannabalised to a greater extent than the ps2... And I'm an xbox modder/repairer.. the ps2 was because people brought them to me... found out the price of a new laser and just went and bought a £45 one.
The 360 failure rates are in line with the electronics industry standard 0.03% of items which leave the factory, and 0.3% of total units made before QC.. otherwise they would stop making them until they solved the problem.
Of the millions sold how many have never ever given any problems whatsoever? The vast majority. I do think that the overall build quality is poor.. especially the very cheap and nasty dvd drives, and the cooling is borderline.. But to say that 90% have failed is ridiculous.. No manufacturer can sustain a 5% failure rate, let alone 90%. Much of the shouting about failure is people jumping on the bandwagon when their tampered with ebay purchase goes wrong within weeks.
I have seen one person insist on buying rrod 360's on ebay over and over looking for the "easy fix".. failing (because they know bugger all about electronics.. can't even fix a van alternator) miserably and then selling it back on ebay.. only 6 months later to buy the exact same console again after it has been messed about with by another 6 people in the meantime.
We are starting to see the first of the ps3's with disk drive failure.. soon the floodgates will open and we will be back in ps2 world all over again.... except this time.. I'm not going to build a heap of them out the back. They don't stack so nice.
Haha, thanks man. But I'm an Aussie. We is more ignorant than hillbillys here. But we do have Crime Converters. I expect he's checked them out. My old PS2 was bought on the launch day here, he want's it coz he's maaaaaaad. Don't ask me to look on eBay tho. :D
Oner, if you don't want to check out the thread on your own site entitled "PS3 blu-ray drive dead" it's up to you (218 posts and counting). I left a few "I-told-you-so"s there- kidding. There's a number of f*** you $ony written there, but also, great advice on what to do.
Yes it's gonna be bad man, remember I WAS talking about a 3yr period. But I'm sure $ony will fix it after the warranty expires... they're such a nice corporation. :D
I have a whimsical hypothesis about this- they all plan obsolescence into these consoles... M$ just had it dialed up too high...woops.
Originally posted by ZippyDSM: In that article no it tells you the numbers, and MS dose not contest the numbers, and in previous arti9lces has pretty much agreed with them.
There is no doubt that the 360 has had a quarter of its units go bust to question it is to be drinking the "koolaid" out of MSs dck. As far as I have seen or heard from friends and acquaintances some of which repair consoles more than I use to fool with is a mountain compared to what the PS3 might be. Hell MS even did a poor build job on the old Xbox, I'll take lens/drive issues over heat dispensation issues any day!
BTW I say my numbers are up to 30% and looking at the wealth of information and rumors its more than likely true, why else would they go above and beyond to extend the warranty by what 3000%(on a 30 day warranty basis) because they screwed up and its beats being taken to court by an enrage populace.
So please do not even try and down play the disaster of the 360 fail rates, it makes you look more foolish than someone padding them alil.
From my experience owning the 360 its broken for one and I am not the only one to go through 3 or 4 units, the games are mostly "acquired" PC titles with the mass majority of titles being bargain bin crap, its almost suffers from the PS2 being awash in cheap poorly made games only it dose not have as many great titles.
I will say this its gained enough devserity in its titles over the last year or so to make me want to own one again but frankly quality and control options in console games are retarded and I would rather not waste so much money on 5 or 15 games its just not worth the price and I can say this for the PS3 and WII as well I have had them all long enough to more than understand how publishers are having games developed in this short sighted mass disposable world market.
Hell if Halo ep 3 was not...well....Halo ep 3 but a solid and well built FPS like one was I would have kept my 360 crap but good god 8-10 hours of SP time for a 60$ game...no never again will I pay 40+ for a limited and short sighted product.
I might be a crazy and jaded gamer nazi but it beats being a self wanking fanboy every time!
LOL
BTW I am not calling you a fanboy...yet *lick* =^_~=
It comes down to this if you believe the fail rate on the 360 is NOT around a quarter of its total unit sales then you are without a question a raveing fan boy, its as simple as that.
Nope, no real numbers in that article man, no 30% anyway. M$ agrees there is a problem but disputes the reported extent of it calling it exaggerated etc. Good article anyway. I can read y'know.
Just because I choose to query your lofty omnipotent proclaiments dude, there's no reason to start using the f word. No need to start getting vulgar and going all ad hominem. Threatening to call me a "...raveing (sic) self wanking fanboy...drinking the "koolaid" out of MSs dck" is below the belt, a bit rich and smacks of desperation to me, coz I've been reasonable. But it's understandable considering you choose to cherry-pick and ignore half of what wrote.
Just disregard- "$ony have always had a great track record in producing quality exclusives, better than M$ imo. So I might just end up getting a PS3 in a couple of years or so. It sure won't be 2nd hand tho." and "Realistically, it all comes down to the actual game that you want to play, doesn't it? And that's pretty personal."
I haven't accused you you of being a hypocrite ...yet. (And please don't lick me again man, that's kinda gross.)
Meh, I must be a wannabe fanboy because I've just been into retro and MMORPGing for the last few months since I put the new PC together.
Suggesting that "Hell, MS even did a poor build job on the old Xbox" is patently untrue especially to repairers. That article even doesn't concur with that, it suggests that M$ actually perceived that as a problem- the quality cost them too much. Mine still runs as smooth as silk, of course, it's modded which contributes to it's longevity. But DVD wise it got a thrashing. I did replace it's PSU because of interference present in RGB output (I had a Euro TV) but that was undetectable ordinarily.
For the record, I'll say that, yeah, it seems more like 50% of X360s are RRoDing in the first 3yrs from my anecdotal point of view. But I still maintain that M$ has made the problem far worse with it's crappy replacement returns. But what else would you expect from a greedy grasping corporate octopus. However, you won't find $ony behaving any better.
Originally posted by Oner: The PS3 has an industry average (if not lower) percentage of acceptable failures (as well as the Wii). There is absolutely no proof to your opinion of the PS3 having a wide scale problem.
I have a launch day Fat PS2 that is STILL working as well as know a few family members with theirs still working. You cannot compare the PS2 fail rates to the 360's
Quote:the PS2's failure %'s where still within an acceptable industry standard. The only reason why it "seemed" like a lot is because
In reference to your earlier reply about GTA4 on PS3
Quote:The upshot was that the res and the framerate are ended up lower on the PS3.
While that is true the consensus is the PS3 version plays and still looks better at a slightly lower resolution; this coupled with the 360's pop in issue & load times just confirms it.
But we are getting off topic (here and there) so please feel free to reply but we really should discuss off topic stuff elsewhere.
Sorry to respond to these posts individually- I don't know the trick of adding the quotes together (noob!).
Yes, no proof, coz I didn't say "of the PS3 having a wide scale problem", I said it will have. Over a 3 yr period and certainly after the warranty expires. The opinion I expressed was one of foreboding. I gave my reasons why, and they're fair. Apart from drawing a parallel between the drive construction of the PS2 and the PS3, there is another thing... All the PS3s coming into the shop for laser assembly problems (about 3 per week now) are overseas models. They were bought OS early because the PS3 has hardly been sold in Australia for a year, also their warranty btw is not honored in this country. Now that's a lot for small town Adelaide, South Aust, a tiny percentage of the locally bought PS3s here. Especially considering that most Joe Blow PS3 owners don't even know they can have their console repaired independent of $ony. And we ain't the only specialist console repair shop in this burg either. So the problem is either universal or just with the OS models bought here from Honk Kong, Japan, States, Europe, Singapore, China, wherever. Maybe the units can't tolerate domestic air travel, but I think it's a pretty fair world sampling that can't be shoved under the carpet (because of Australia's very late introduction to locally sold units).
I believe I am in a position to compare the PS2 fail rates to the 360's factoring in a 3yr period. I didn't say it would be as bad but it won't be good... at all. At least it's not an unfixable problem and we're not quite as expensive as $ony. We offer a 3 month guarantee on our work but it still ain't cheap. There's the high failure rate of replacement parts too.
I'm genuinely impressed you have a fair use working non-repaired launch day PS2 Oner and that you know of a few others. In fact I am quite staggered. But I have to to say, that's honestly the first I've ever heard of. As I said, my ver3 was something of a record at the shop. My ver7 replacement has a HDD fitted in the effort to stave of the inevitable. (Btw, does yours have an HDD fitted?)
I believe the figures you quote but fail to reference apply to the first year only... not three.
I failed to mention the Xbox TV bundles because the $ony ones are way prevalent, at least in this country, But perhaps your right, I should have. The point being the figures are muddied by all sorts of factors. But it would be naive to think that $ony would not pad out their numbers as well. Amyway, it was a genuine question not just a rhetorical setup.
I'll take your word for the consensus concerning GTA IV on the PS3, I know there are pop in issues on the X360. I naturally fail to see how a lower res would look better tho- I always preferred to to play my games in PAL if I could despite the 50hz coz of the extra 20% (about) res. but with some I just couldn't because of frame tearing, a result of poor conversion... Spider Man and Ninja Gaiden off the top of my head. So I'm picky I suppose.
I cannot understand how you beleive this supposed BD drive issue is anything of concern? You cannot compare 1 thread on 1 site to hundreds and thousands on here & everywhere else that are absolutely rampant. Now that's not to say there aren't any other sites that don't post about PS3 failures but the point remains it is absolutely no where near similar in scale!
As for the figures they are for what counts. Totals. Not a partial time period to compare to another time period as that is not giving the whole proper picture. It would be biased to try and compare a "this time to this time" as that is not giving the whole truth/story. But I can understand where you are trying to get at. But what you are touting is at what MAY be not what is.
You stated you have a whimsical hypothesis about this; and it is exactly that, because a hypothesis without substantiating proof on a whole can only be taken as whimsical :). Either way the bottom line is (back on topic) I do hope the 360 does well (at least for a little longer) so as to keep the competitiveness tight within console gaming.
My only gripe with M$ has always been the fact I don't like their hardware faults and how EVERYONE involved gets screwed. Because this affects 2 separate areas.
1) RROD hardware problems hurts 360 owners
2) DL DVD's impacts the 360 because of shorter games, compression + more ways to charge for downloadable content that should have been included (for $60 a pop especially) as well as those same issues apply to the PS3 owners for whatever multiplatform games that port over (not for graphics problems as that is a separate issue tied to the devs when it comes to experience & time when programming)
Edit: I have to add that I have really enjoyed these discussions. It's nice for a change to T A L K about a topic without it always reverting to Wah Wah Wah DRM, Sony, the bpi, or whatever only to somehow regress to personal insults....even if the topic has slightly skewed from the originating news it has been a proper conversation. Cheers.
Originally posted by Oner: I cannot understand how you beleive this supposed BD drive issue is anything of concern? You cannot compare 1 thread on 1 site to hundreds and thousands on here & everywhere else that are absolutely rampant. Now that's not to say there aren't any other sites that don't post about PS3 failures but the point remains it is absolutely no where near similar in scale!
As for the figures they are for what counts. Totals. Not a partial time period to compare to another time period as that is not giving the whole proper picture. It would be biased to try and compare a "this time to this time" as that is not giving the whole truth/story. But I can understand where you are trying to get at. But what you are touting is at what MAY be not what is.
You stated you have a whimsical hypothesis about this; and it is exactly that, because a hypothesis without substantiating proof on a whole can only be taken as whimsical :). Either way the bottom line is (back on topic) I do hope the 360 does well (at least for a little longer) so as to keep the competitiveness tight within console gaming.
My only gripe with M$ has always been the fact I don't like their hardware faults and how EVERYONE involved gets screwed. Because this affects 2 separate areas.
1) RROD hardware problems hurts 360 owners
2) DL DVD's impacts the 360 because of shorter games, compression + more ways to charge for downloadable content that should have been included (for $60 a pop especially) as well as those same issues apply to the PS3 owners for whatever multiplatform games that port over (not for graphics problems as that is a separate issue tied to the devs when it comes to experience & time when programming)
Edit: I have to add that I have really enjoyed these discussions. It's nice for a change to T A L K about a topic without it always reverting to Wah Wah Wah DRM, Sony, the bpi, or whatever only to somehow regress to personal insults....even if the topic has slightly skewed from the originating news it has been a proper conversation. Cheers.
Thanks Oner, appreciate that. I suppose as a moderator you might get this thread shifted to off-topic, if you so choose. But it might be it's saving grace. :D Gad, this thread has cost me valuable gaming time :)
If you can't understand by now why I might have a point about the PS3's high potential for a BluRay-of-Death then I don't what else I can write. All I can do is say I'm not the only one who gets it. I point to the above post by Varnull-
Originally posted by varnull: We are starting to see the first of the ps3's with disk drive failure.. soon the floodgates will open and we will be back in ps2 world all over again....
If what you mean by "totals" is all PS2s sold up until this moment. 98-97% of PS2s EVER sold are STILL functioning without repair, sorry man, I just think that's just plain false. I had a good TV bought during that period and after several repairs even that's bit the dust by now. The "acceptable industry standard" refers to the first year warranty period only according to my knowledge, they use that to factor in returns.
The 3yr period I choose for comparison logically is because that is the period M$ cover for the RRoD (not for anything else mind you).
"whimsical hypothesis"... hey, I called it first! :D It was a JOKE Oner, c'on. J-O-K-E y'know... haha! :D That's why I wrote "whimsical hypothesis" *oh for cripes sake!*
BTW "substantiating proof" shifts hypothesis to theory- know your philosophy of science! All hypothesis are whimsy on some level or "educated guesses" at best.
The necessity for BluRay (or even HD-DVD) to improve gaming at this stage of the game is grossly exaggerated. Of far more importance to the multiplatform games issue is general instruction multi-core processing, of which I'll go into in the next post (along with others of Zippy's blue-sky dreaming).
Decompression of data on the X360 and the Xbox1 is handled in hardware... by the time it takes to load up into RAM from optical it's virtually there.
With the release of the Nov update loading times and noise won't be so much of an issue, if you have an X360 HDD. It may even help deal with the pop-in issues in GTA IV- since that is a game which loads on-the-fly.
Originally posted by Oner: While the 360's "graphics card" (Xenos) in itself may be more powerful than the PS3's "graphics card" (RSX) you omit the fact that the Cell HELPS in this area so in the end it is the other way around...well, if utilized properly that is ;).
Sorry, one of these days it might help a little but hardware rendering will always trump software in terms of speed and you forget the bottleneck issues of the PS3. The time, trouble and money that game programmers/developers have to spend to "utilize properly" in your terms the PS3's configuration showed it's head in GTA IV. It's also gonna suck up more of the PS3's single GI core's time too regardless of FLOP speed.
