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Class Action LawSuit Against M$ And Ban Wave!!!
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ruff4life
Junior Member
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8. November 2009 @ 19:27 |
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Sounds a lil crazy and maybe I don't have the full picture and I do know the risks that some have taken by modding their consoles. But the risks do not measure up to the punishment and I believe that people who were hit in this last ban have a possible lawsuit. (Here Me Out) !!
I've been reading posts on this site for some years now. I finally decided to chime in this year. I have been in the console modding and backup scene since the commodore 64 and I have never had any issues before. Since I got the 360 I stayed away from it because I do enjoy all of the features and did not wanna risk it. Well one day I decide to take a chance. In less than 2 months 2 months I have a banned console. OK! Big Whoop! I took that risk. So me not being able to talk to the on xbox live partner or being able to play a new racing game in a room full of rookies with all the assists on or a FPS room full of kids with modded controllers killing me and camping out at spawn points will be sorely missed. (As you can see my online experience is not all that great. Maybe Cus I suck too) But disabling the features of MY Console (THAT I PAID FOR) which have nothing to do with live is ABSURD.
Lets look at it like this. I buy an xbox elite with no live account. I live in the sticks so high speed Internet is not an option all I have is an xbox. I by a game and I install to hard drive. I mod my system and still have same features. i never get online nothing ever changes. I will always have the same features. If MS had any way of coming to my house and locating my modded system, Would they have the right to disable My features From My console Manually. The answer to that is NO. They do have the right to not allow me on Xblive (I Guess) but after that there reach into the features of my purchased console is limited.
If I am Wrong Please tell me I am not with sarcasm but sound facts . And please site your fact because My attorney will be looking into this and as we all know they can use all they help they can get to go against a giant.
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Junior Member
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8. November 2009 @ 19:29 |
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It was worth a laugh for me......
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AeroDyno
Newbie
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8. November 2009 @ 19:41 |
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Are you joking...
or do you really have a lawsuit?
Part of the thousands banned on XBL from Fall 2009 Ban Wave. Well, we took the risk and we had to pay!
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Senior Member
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8. November 2009 @ 19:42 |
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In the terms of service it says that MS have the right to modify, add or remove features at any time. You own the hardware, but you don't own the software that's on the console and that software can be used to modify how the hardware works and it's within Microsoft's rights to do exactly that. Had they made your hard drive totally non-functional you might have had a case, but what they've actually done is disable the install feature in the dashboard which they can do to anyone at any time.
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yoshidogs
Junior Member
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8. November 2009 @ 19:46 |
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I have a quick question for the tc. How old are you? I am just curious
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johnny412
Member
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8. November 2009 @ 19:49 |
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Tc You are lucky you are not in a federal prison right now. You should be thankful that a loss of functionality on your 360 is all you've lost. [img];-)[/img]
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AeroDyno
Newbie
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8. November 2009 @ 19:54 |
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Originally posted by johnny412:
Tc You are lucky you are not in a federal prison right now. You should be thankful that a loss of functionality on your 360 is all you've lost. [img];-)[/img]
-Thumbs Up-
Part of the thousands banned on XBL from Fall 2009 Ban Wave. Well, we took the risk and we had to pay!
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Moderator
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8. November 2009 @ 20:14 |
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...and i thought i'd seen everything...
I can see it now, the OP is in court ~ "Here is exhibit 16B", and holds up a burnt copy of Forza 3 or something.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
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Junior Member
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8. November 2009 @ 22:00 |
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Technically I don't think you really own any of the functions of the xbox 360. You own the physical console, but Microsoft owns he intellectual property (software) that makes the console run....and by using their software you automatically agree to their terms of use for that software...part of which is that any modification of your XBOX360 beyond changing the faceplate is not permitted.
oops, funk beat me to it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. November 2009 @ 22:01
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Member
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9. November 2009 @ 07:03 |
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Ruff I made some interesting statements regarding this in this tread:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/t.cfm/f-152/...onality-810506/
Now, I donīt know exactly how the law works in US, but in my country this is not laughable at all. Im graduating law school right now btw.
You saying tha Ms can do any kind of modification in the software, cause we just own the fisical thing. So, they can, for example, take out the dashboard functionality to load my games? Is that right by youre logic?
Even If I had commited I crime, with I didnīt cause I own all games I backed up, Ms could not have made justice with theyre own hands. Punishment and justice is State business as far as I know.
And cmon, we didnīt bought a nice paperweight. We bought 120 and 250 hds to store our games and run them from it. I payd for the physical WORKING thing. And that demands software. Selling me a functioning hd and than turning it into a paperweight is a SCAM.
In my country pre made EULA that we donīt get a chance to contest and most people donīt read donīt have that much validity. You know, in the end of the EULA could be written that MS own youre soul, and I assure you 99% of the players would still OK it, most without reading. Make that valid in court.
And if remember correctly, EULA states that Live is a privilege that could be taken away. No one saw this functionality disable coming.
And here we still have something called acquired rights, somethign i cant translate about posesion of property after owning it for an amount of time (even intelectual), and principle of legality (if it would be all right for MS to create punishment, wich is not). Oh yeah, without mentioned theyere time for pleeing against my mod have espired. Of course, this last ones are overkill.
And dinīt be silly. Moding an xbox donīt go against national security. Stop flaming and remember even if by a long shot this works, you all can benefit.
Sry about grossly translated things. :)
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HoboZombi
Newbie
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9. November 2009 @ 07:31 |
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Quote:
Stop flaming and remember even if by a long shot this works, you all can benefit.
No offense, but even if we could profit from this vengeful daydream, it wouldn't make it right.
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Junior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 07:35 |
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Originally posted by Inalbis:
You saying tha Ms can do any kind of modification in the software, cause we just own the fisical thing. So, they can, for example, take out the dashboard functionality to load my games? Is that right by youre logic?
Even If I had commited I crime, with I didnīt cause I own all games I backed up, Ms could not have made justice with theyre own hands. Punishment and justice is State business as far as I know.
You are confusing vigilante justice with enforcement of an agreement. Microsoft includes a document with your 360, and also displays one when you sign into XBOX Live for the first time (and everytime it is changed) that states you cannot modify your console as part of your ability to use their software.
Originally posted by Inalbis:
And cmon, we didnīt bought a nice paperweight. We bought 120 and 250 hds to store our games and run them from it. I payd for the physical WORKING thing. And that demands software. Selling me a functioning hd and than turning it into a paperweight is a SCAM.
Again, Microsoft sold you a hard drive with a condition that the unit you are attaching it to cannot be modified. You modified the console, and Microsoft enforced the agreement you indicated you had read and understood when you logged into XBOX Live. As a law student, you should well be aware that by indicating "I have read and agree" that you probably should have READ and AGREED to those conditions before you started gaming.
Originally posted by Inalbis:
In my country pre made EULA that we donīt get a chance to contest and most people donīt read donīt have that much validity. You know, in the end of the EULA could be written that MS own youre soul, and I assure you 99% of the players would still OK it, most without reading. Make that valid in court.
Microsoft would have hired a law team, probably a copyright law team, for each country the XBOX is sold in, this would be to ensure that the country the console is being sold in has enforceable copyright laws, that the terms of the EULA are valid and would be upheld in court. They didn't have some 10 year old in Bill Gates' basement write up the EULA, it was most likely a team of lawyers whose work was double checked by two more teams of lawyers.
Originally posted by Inalbis:
And here we still have something called acquired rights, somethign i cant translate about posesion of property after owning it for an amount of time (even intelectual), and principle of legality (if it would be all right for MS to create punishment, wich is not). Oh yeah, without mentioned theyere time for pleeing against my mod have espired. Of course, this last ones are overkill.
I think something about this is either lost in translation, or incorrect. No offence. You're telling me that, if I go and buy anything that is intellectual property, after a certain time it becomes mine? So, I could go buy a copy of Windows 7, and then it becomes mine? I could then resell it for profit, as it's my intellectual property? I think we're off the page here....
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Member
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9. November 2009 @ 09:21 |
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First of all we all must remember law is not black and white. MS lawyers will have theyre arguments we will have ours.
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You are confusing vigilante justice with enforcement of an agreement. Microsoft includes a document with your 360, and also displays one when you sign into XBOX Live for the first time (and everytime it is changed) that states you cannot modify your console as part of your ability to use their software.
yup, vigilante justice thats it. To stop to ofer me a service, like Live, is stoping the contract we had. And its ok. Breaking my console (hd not working as it should, they damaged it)in the other hand, its vigilante.
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Again, Microsoft sold you a hard drive with a condition that the unit you are attaching it to cannot be modified.
I donīt remember reading that. Thatīs truth for xbox Live, but itīs been never mentioned for the hd. Btw, no document came with the 120 hd I bought separately, and no EULA poped up when I installed it.
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As a law student, you should well be aware that by indicating "I have read and agree" that you probably should have READ and AGREED to those conditions before you started gaming.
Yeah, make it personal and Iīll simply get of this thread. I have better things to do than respond to critics in the internet. Call me chicken if you wish I wonīt reply anyway.
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Microsoft would have hired a law team, probably a copyright law team, for each country the XBOX is sold in, this would be to ensure that the country the console is being sold in has enforceable copyright laws, that the terms of the EULA are valid and would be upheld in court. They didn't have some 10 year old in Bill Gates' basement write up the EULA, it was most likely a team of lawyers whose work was double checked by two more teams of lawyers.
I watch boston legal. Americans seems to have this "a big law firm handle theyre cases!"fear, like it matters. Maybe Iīm limited but I canīt understand why. The judge decides(ok, the juri in youre case). Good lawyers make mistakes, but in this case is not mistake. Say what you whant, that was a one side contract. They made it saying they have all and we have nothing. They tried to give themselves every possible leverage. Of course they did, they tipped the contract and we didnīt had a word about it. That doesnīt make it valid. "oh but if you didnīt agree you could have not bought!" thats not truth,Im not an expecialist in consumers rights, but its not like that it works, not here aniway.
And btw I had already payed an exorbitant price and import taxes when i opened the box and found the contract... hum... interesting, could I make MS refound me of all the money I spent on theyre console onse I open it up and find out I donīt agree with the EULA?
You pay 200U$ for youre console right? with a 100U$ coupon that you can use to buy 2 games? Well I payed 1,600 of my money for it, and 300 for each game. Minimum salary here is 148. I could even plea "state of need" to mod it for freaks sake.
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I think something about this is either lost in translation, or incorrect. No offence. You're telling me that, if I go and buy anything that is intellectual property, after a certain time it becomes mine? So, I could go buy a copy of Windows 7, and then it becomes mine? I could then resell it for profit, as it's my intellectual property? I think we're off the page here....
No offense taken. Yeah, I couldnīt really express myself correctly. But as I stated, itīs kinda overkill. That kind of plea is used for possession of real state and vehicles after years of illegal possession. Id would be kinda weird to try to fit in this case.
Except for some personally aimed commentaries (that I hope I misunderstood), itīs a nice debate we got here.
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WJ99
Senior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 09:43 |
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Surely then we should be able to modify the software on the Xbox at our will, once banned.
Obviously not MS code but open source software would be legal?
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. November 2009 @ 09:47 |
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The problem with all this talk about the hdd being "broke" after being banned is the simple fact that the hdd isn't broke. It still functions. It still stores your profile, music, etc.
What's broke is some of the software which allowed it to be used beyond it's original intent. And MS is well within their rights to do that. As long as the hdd still serves it's basic functions, MS can take away the rest of it's added features.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. November 2009 @ 09:50
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Member
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9. November 2009 @ 10:05 |
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Originally posted by bhetrick:
The problem with all this talk about the hdd being "broke" after being banned is the simple fact that the hdd isn't broke. It still functions. It still stores your profile, music, etc.
What's broke is some of the software which allowed it to be used beyond it's original intent. And MS is well within their rights to do that. As long as the hdd still serves it's basic functions, MS can take away the rest of it's added features.
Installing games and playing from it was the solo reason that made me buy a 120gb hd. I bought my xbox when it came with a 20hdd and no hdmi. I just had the need for more space for more games. And really, the new 250gb, anyone uses 250 gb to store music and saves? People buy it intending to install games on it. I understand the argument, but is very scamish...
"I sold you the car, never mentioned the engine was part of the deal. Damn, I even gave you the engine as a bonus, now a month later i went to youre home and took it away, but what you complaining about? you can still sit in youre car and look cool, and hear music in the included radio. Cīmon, itīs not broken, just lost one of its functions"
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. November 2009 @ 10:23 |
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Originally posted by Inalbis:
, but is very scamish...
Nope, not scamish at all. I would agree it would have seemed like a scam if MS took the install option away from every single xbox 360 owner in the world, but they didn't. They only took it away from those who were caught doing what they were not allowed to do.
Let me say this, I'm not on MS's side. I feel a little bad for you and the others who have been banned. I don't want this to seem like an arguement. I'm just looking at the banning situation from a neutral standpoint. I'm not choosing either side when discussing it.
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WJ99
Senior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 10:25 |
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Originally posted by bhetrick:
Originally posted by Inalbis:
, but is very scamish...
Nope, not scamish at all. I would agree it would have seemed like a scam if MS took the install option away from every single xbox 360 owner in the world, but they didn't. They only took it away from those who were caught doing what they were not allowed to do.
Let me say this, I'm not on MS's side. I feel a little bad for you and the others who have been banned. I don't want this to seem like an arguement. I'm just looking at the banning situation from a neutral standpoint. I'm not choosing either side when discussing it.
And thats the sensible view. That's how a judge would have to be.
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Member
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9. November 2009 @ 10:31 |
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Originally posted by WJ99:
Originally posted by bhetrick:
Originally posted by Inalbis:
, but is very scamish...
Nope, not scamish at all. I would agree it would have seemed like a scam if MS took the install option away from every single xbox 360 owner in the world, but they didn't. They only took it away from those who were caught doing what they were not allowed to do.
Let me say this, I'm not on MS's side. I feel a little bad for you and the others who have been banned. I don't want this to seem like an arguement. I'm just looking at the banning situation from a neutral standpoint. I'm not choosing either side when discussing it.
And thats the sensible view. That's how a judge would have to be.
I havent been banned btw :D
that puts me in a neutral standpoint too?
I see you point thou. I guess further discussion would involve deeper research and study that Iīm not beeing payed to do... so... :)
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Junior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 12:24 |
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This would be great if there could be a possible lawsuit out of all this. Instead of focusing on the fact that your box was modded to play games...can focus on the fact that microsoft makes you download additional content in order to play game. (fact being it should be optional) Come to think of it this brings another sort of off topic theory about the ban:
Is it possible people are being tracked through their NXE dashboard update? hmmmmmmm... can we revert back to the previous updates and not get banned? (If im not mistaken the dasheboard updates are mandatory)
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JediOrc
Member
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9. November 2009 @ 13:32 |
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HDD is not broke, features have been disabled and you need to format it on a unmodded 360 (By: Stepto). As for live, I say don't worry about it. You knew the risk when you modded it brother. I HIGHLY recommend just going to: http://forums.afterdawn.com/t.cfm/f-152/...d_users-813095/
XBC is great. for what I have researched!
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palidin
Junior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 13:34 |
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lol I can't believe this guy was even remotely serious.
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ruff4life
Junior Member
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9. November 2009 @ 17:18 |
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Originally posted by Inalbis:
Ruff I made some interesting statements regarding this in this tread:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/t.cfm/f-152/...onality-810506/
Now, I donīt know exactly how the law works in US, but in my country this is not laughable at all. Im graduating law school right now btw.
You saying tha Ms can do any kind of modification in the software, cause we just own the fisical thing. So, they can, for example, take out the dashboard functionality to load my games? Is that right by youre logic?
Even If I had commited I crime, with I didnīt cause I own all games I backed up, Ms could not have made justice with theyre own hands. Punishment and justice is State business as far as I know.
And cmon, we didnīt bought a nice paperweight. We bought 120 and 250 hds to store our games and run them from it. I payd for the physical WORKING thing. And that demands software. Selling me a functioning hd and than turning it into a paperweight is a SCAM.
In my country pre made EULA that we donīt get a chance to contest and most people donīt read donīt have that much validity. You know, in the end of the EULA could be written that MS own youre soul, and I assure you 99% of the players would still OK it, most without reading. Make that valid in court.
And if remember correctly, EULA states that Live is a privilege that could be taken away. No one saw this functionality disable coming.
And here we still have something called acquired rights, somethign i cant translate about posesion of property after owning it for an amount of time (even intelectual), and principle of legality (if it would be all right for MS to create punishment, wich is not). Oh yeah, without mentioned theyere time for pleeing against my mod have espired. Of course, this last ones are overkill.
And dinīt be silly. Moding an xbox donīt go against national security. Stop flaming and remember even if by a long shot this works, you all can benefit.
Sry about grossly translated things. :)
I Apologize for not coming back and commenting or answerin any questions. I have been real busy lately. Now I did write this post with a smile on my face. I too have taken legal classes and I have also conferred with an attorney to see if there was something there. So far there are loopholes and there are issues that can be dealt with in a court of law.
First off I was told that the install to HD feature was definitely a gift. In other words if I lost my account and got a new xbox and started playing then I would not have that feature unless an upgrade to the OS was made. But having said that once the upgrade was made it is now in my possession and possession is 9/10s of the law. IT'S MINE.
Yeah I read the agreements but like I said once it's on my console the software and all its features are mine. suppose I didn't have a live account and hooked up to the Internet does that give M$ the right to strip search my console? I don't pay for live anymore.
So whats next. Dishnetwork/ Or Direct TV is gonna suspend my dvr features cus I'm no longer a customer? This is absurd! but Anyway I have bought another box and am planning on modding this one out also. I just like to stir the pot a lil. No offense to anybody. I appreciate the intellectual Conversation. If I do have a case I will inform you guys and if you want a piece of the pie just for arguments sake your more than welcome to join the Tea Party.
Holla!
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assman21
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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9. November 2009 @ 17:30 |
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MS will eat you alive then they will mercilessly taunt you, kid. The lawyer fees will bankrupt you, you will lose friends over money issues, your family will be embarassed of you. All for one banned console.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. November 2009 @ 17:38 |
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Originally posted by ruff4life:
Yeah I read the agreements but like I said once it's on my console the software and all its features are mine.
But that's the problem... the software is not yours. You (meaning all of us) didn't purchase the software. You purchased the rights to use the software as it was originally intended to be used. The sole owner of the software is MS.
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