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Class Action LawSuit Against M$ And Ban Wave!!!
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dvbranton
Junior Member
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11. November 2009 @ 19:31 |
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Ok First all you people complaining that M$ disabled the hard drive please quit crying you all knew the risks. It is what it is. Sure lets take M$ to court. On the way to court lets have a nice stay in jail cause face it, we modded to play "back-ups" due to the fact that some could have said that my original faced damages due to being scratched by the dvd drive or just to pirate the games.
When I hear about how the "game industry" is suffering due to pirates. That is an outright no go. Look at Gamespot. They buy and sell games, systems, dvd's and such and none of that money goes to the publisher/developers and such but "pirates" are the reason for the decline of the industry. If games cost less like say $20 then that would maybe stop a lot of the pirating. cheaper games = more units pushed and more sells. I mean why did most mod our systems? For the games.
As far as the Ixtreme being detectable of course it is. I am almost sure M$ has a few modded consoles just to see how they can detect the mod on XBL. That is why there was a huge mass ban. Of course if I was running a biz I wouldn't ban the console. I would make you pay for a new tag and subscription service. Cause it seems like people are doing the gut swap. When they ban the console they are not banning the tag as you can go to xbox.com and log in (well at least I can). We play with fire we will be burned. That is the risk you take. Suck it up and deal with it.
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Junior Member
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11. November 2009 @ 20:02 |
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its not like this banning is something new, its been done before. so either you get banned and buy a new xbox if you want live that bad, or suck it up. EVERYONE knew the risk involved when modding their xbox, especially if you come to the AD forums, because at any given time-except for this past 12 or so days-there is atleast 10 threads where noobs are asking if they will get banned for modding their console. "oh, but i updated my firmware and ran all my games through abgx and they all verified..." and? all you did there was delay the inevitable. if you honestly didnt think microsoft wasnt going to find a way to detect modded consoles and back-up, pirated, bootleg games, then maybe you need a reality check. think of it like this. if you put $100 in your wallet every day, and put it on top of your dresser every night, and every morning when you wake up, the $100 was missing, wouldnt you think to put your wallet somewhere else? go ahead and try to say somethin stupid about that, but its exactally what MS is doing, they know people are modding consoles and playing burned games, so they upgraded their security. i am not the almighty law master, nor am i the greatest modder in the world, but i am smart enough to admit microsoft got us and theres nothing we can do about it. im not taking anyones side on this, good on MS for crackin down, and good on most people for not caring and still modding and backing up games. i personally bought a new xbox arcade for $100 and a LEGIT copy of MW2, and now i have a console i dont have to worry about getting banned anymore because it already happened. i will continue to watch all these threads in hope that there will be a new/safe way to not get caught, and when that time comes, ill mod my new box, and from there its a roll of the dice. hope this wasnt too much of an eyesore, thanks for your time. oh and go ahead and flame me, make your e-penis bigger if you must.
2/2 BANNED!
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Wiiman50
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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11. November 2009 @ 20:21 |
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Originally posted by dvbranton:
Ok First all you people complaining that M$ disabled the hard drive please quit crying you all knew the risks. It is what it is. Sure lets take M$ to court. On the way to court lets have a nice stay in jail cause face it, we modded to play "back-ups" due to the fact that some could have said that my original faced damages due to being scratched by the dvd drive or just to pirate the games.
When I hear about how the "game industry" is suffering due to pirates. That is an outright no go. Look at Gamespot. They buy and sell games, systems, dvd's and such and none of that money goes to the publisher/developers and such but "pirates" are the reason for the decline of the industry. If games cost less like say $20 then that would maybe stop a lot of the pirating. cheaper games = more units pushed and more sells. I mean why did most mod our systems? For the games.
As far as the Ixtreme being detectable of course it is. I am almost sure M$ has a few modded consoles just to see how they can detect the mod on XBL. That is why there was a huge mass ban. Of course if I was running a biz I wouldn't ban the console. I would make you pay for a new tag and subscription service. Cause it seems like people are doing the gut swap. When they ban the console they are not banning the tag as you can go to xbox.com and log in (well at least I can). We play with fire we will be burned. That is the risk you take. Suck it up and deal with it.
The firmware is not detected, however, microsoft has found a way to figure out if the game is real or a back up.
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Scho3200
Newbie
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12. November 2009 @ 01:15 |
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Wiiman50 and dvbranton both work for microsoft and they of course are trying to get us to back down plus if microsoft is doing that means we struck a nerve that's a lot law suits
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nash79
Member
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12. November 2009 @ 06:34 |
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Originally posted by dvbranton:
Ok First all you people complaining that M$ disabled the hard drive please quit crying you all knew the risks. It is what it is. Sure lets take M$ to court. On the way to court lets have a nice stay in jail cause face it, we modded to play "back-ups" due to the fact that some could have said that my original faced damages due to being scratched by the dvd drive or just to pirate the games.
When I hear about how the "game industry" is suffering due to pirates. That is an outright no go. Look at Gamespot. They buy and sell games, systems, dvd's and such and none of that money goes to the publisher/developers and such but "pirates" are the reason for the decline of the industry. If games cost less like say $20 then that would maybe stop a lot of the pirating. cheaper games = more units pushed and more sells. I mean why did most mod our systems? For the games.
As far as the Ixtreme being detectable of course it is. I am almost sure M$ has a few modded consoles just to see how they can detect the mod on XBL. That is why there was a huge mass ban. Of course if I was running a biz I wouldn't ban the console. I would make you pay for a new tag and subscription service. Cause it seems like people are doing the gut swap. When they ban the console they are not banning the tag as you can go to xbox.com and log in (well at least I can). We play with fire we will be burned. That is the risk you take. Suck it up and deal with it.
You're speculating here on the reason One mods his XBOX. I have all the right to mod it just for the funk of it. Doesnt mean to play pirated backups. Playing pirated backups is to find him ACTUALLY Holding a Burnt DVD without being able to produce the original at the moment.
JB PS3 FAT 160 GB/ FW REBUG 3.55 - PS3 Slim 120 GB FW 3.65 - Wii 4.2E Soft/Hard MOD W/USB Loader 250 GB - XBOX 360 PRO 250 GB - XBOX 360 XENON JTAG - PS2 V13 - DSi/Supercard DSTWO - HP Pavilion dv7 - JB Iphone 3G/FW 4.2.1
http://g.bfbcs.com/5690/ps3_nash21979.png |
Junior Member
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13. November 2009 @ 05:07 |
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It's ridiculous for you "intelligent" people to keep saying all modders are pirates! M$ has no rights, the people do. Their TOS means nothing since they are rules. They have no right to remove features from your equipment. I DO NOT care if they own the software. Show me in their TOS where they have the right to remove features.
Xbox 360
ix1.6 Samsung(banned), Samsung ix1.6(banned), Lite-on ix1.6(Still alive :), side note lite-on only runs original games,fw still undetectable.
(+[__]%)Sony PSP Phat 3.52m33
Apple Ipod Touch
2.1 Jailbreak
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Senior Member
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13. November 2009 @ 05:22 |
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Originally posted by popeshag:
They have no right to remove features from your equipment. I DO NOT care if they own the software.
Of course they do. They have the right to add and remove features as they see fit. Here's the section of the terms and conditions that you are agreeing to by using Xbox Live: -
Quote:
Microsoft may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; (b) retrieve information from the original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, personal computer, and any connected peripheral device used to log onto the Service as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this contract; and (c) upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service, any game or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console, or personal computer, from time to time without notice, which may involve the automatic download of related software directly to your original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, or personal computer, including software that prevents you from accessing the Service, playing pirated games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices.
There's really no point in crying about this. Either suck it up, or take them to court. You know you won't do the latter, which only leaves you one option really. ;)
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Wiiman50
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. November 2009 @ 11:54 |
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Chances are that if you are in this forum then you are here to pirate the games and not make back up copies of your game. You would not need to make a backup copy of your game as long as you took care of your games.
Your attempts to sue microsoft are as hypocrite as microsofts attempts to monopolize the computer world market. Everytime they use bad bussiness tactics then they lose money this way. Just play your damn console offline and keep pirating it. Some people out there do spend money on these games while you are downloading them for free. Enjoy!
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Wiiman50
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. November 2009 @ 11:56 |
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Originally posted by dvbranton:
Ok First all you people complaining that M$ disabled the hard drive please quit crying you all knew the risks. It is what it is. Sure lets take M$ to court. On the way to court lets have a nice stay in jail cause face it, we modded to play "back-ups" due to the fact that some could have said that my original faced damages due to being scratched by the dvd drive or just to pirate the games.
When I hear about how the "game industry" is suffering due to pirates. That is an outright no go. Look at Gamespot. They buy and sell games, systems, dvd's and such and none of that money goes to the publisher/developers and such but "pirates" are the reason for the decline of the industry. If games cost less like say $20 then that would maybe stop a lot of the pirating. cheaper games = more units pushed and more sells. I mean why did most mod our systems? For the games.
As far as the Ixtreme being detectable of course it is. I am almost sure M$ has a few modded consoles just to see how they can detect the mod on XBL. That is why there was a huge mass ban. Of course if I was running a biz I wouldn't ban the console. I would make you pay for a new tag and subscription service. Cause it seems like people are doing the gut swap. When they ban the console they are not banning the tag as you can go to xbox.com and log in (well at least I can). We play with fire we will be burned. That is the risk you take. Suck it up and deal with it.
Don't bother writing to these clowns. They have the rest of their xbox lifetime to pirate the rest of the games.
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ronan1990
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. November 2009 @ 12:30 |
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i asked about this last night if anyone had heard if some one had just won aginst microsoft in court cos my mate was tellyin me that he had read it on the net that some one had. he is a one of those people that like to do things by the book and made an appomint to go see a soliater to day and he just told me that they are going to take his case on a no win no fee so they must be confident that they will win. he was sayin that they are going to go through the small clames court here in the uk i dont really know how it works. but they said his case is strong cos on his box it stats that the xbox came be used to connect to xbox live so if they remove this they have missed sold the item i dont really know how this works just been readin up on miss sale of goods act thatthey are usein for this but cant make much of it but it will be good to see how it pans out
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timmaht
Newbie
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13. November 2009 @ 14:56 |
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Just to comment on ToS being just "rules". In the US clicking "I have read and agree to..." is legally binding, albeit debatable. This is considered an E-Signature and was signed into law in the E-Sign Act of 2001. It is actually a necessity for online business such as X-Box Live or Newegg to be functionable because they rely on credit card purchases. Just read one sometime, all the mundane common sense crap that is stated in them couldn't be legally done without them. The vendor would have to mail you a contract to sign and have notorized, which would be tremendously inefficient.
Killing is bad and wrong, killing is Badong.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. November 2009 @ 16:42
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timmaht
Newbie
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13. November 2009 @ 15:01 |
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However I don't believe HDD functionality to install games on them is associated with XBOX Live and that ToS as it is a dashboard modification. Sure you downloaded it from Live but it modified hardware functionality. That's basically saying they could take all functionality added to the factory settings if you are banned. You're stuck with the old school dashboard and what not..retro-fied.
Killing is bad and wrong, killing is Badong.
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timmaht
Newbie
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13. November 2009 @ 15:06 |
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Also, I just modded my XBox during this Ban Wave and fully expect to be banned if I go online so, I'm just going to use my xbox with it's fuctionality offline. I can't violated the Live ToS if I don't go on Live anymore. Great time because my subscription expired on the 4th. If I want to play online I'll take on for the team and get a PS3 because I have a feeling the multiplayer tide is going to change with PS3's age. I mean there's so much potential that hasn't been used yet with PS3 isn't there?
Killing is bad and wrong, killing is Badong.
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Junior Member
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13. November 2009 @ 16:17 |
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Well it's stupid that the only thing we can do about this is buy a new xbox. That's all they want us to do, hence the ban wave. Look at the point that WJ99 made and how relevant it is to the situation. Answer this question then. How can M$ TOS be for their xbox live "service" but also have rights to do what they want with the xbox. So basically what your saying is M$ can do whatever they please. So i may not be able to fight the giant, but i can tell you we've taken billions from Microsoft. So F*** M$!!!!!!!!!
Xbox 360
ix1.6 Samsung(banned), Samsung ix1.6(banned), Lite-on ix1.6(Still alive :), side note lite-on only runs original games,fw still undetectable.
(+[__]%)Sony PSP Phat 3.52m33
Apple Ipod Touch
2.1 Jailbreak
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dvbranton
Junior Member
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13. November 2009 @ 17:34 |
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being able to install to the hard drive wasn't able to do right out the box it took a dashboard update to allow that since it came from XBL then yes they do have the right to disable it since we did violate the rules.......... Now since everyone claims M$ wants console sales then that is fine Arcade is cheap anyway only $200 just put 5 bucks for every game you download and there you go new console once you get banned. Class action lawsuit isn't going to work. Just bite the bullet and get a new console and just deal with it. It is a risk to mod
One thing I don't understand is why are they not banning the tags? They dont, they just ban the console. You would think for the price drop on the PS3 M$ would take a different stance since now the person with a ban can get an elite or now a ps3 either way if one wants to play "legit" you still have to buy the games. I wonder how many of you would rather risk getting a tag ban or a console ban. Personally a tag ban is more profitable due to the fact of if M$ banned over 1 million consoles and lets just say for arguments sake 50% don't buy a new console and 20% do but 30% buy a PS3. M$ loses in the long run, Thus banning the tags would make M$ more money. I am sure most would rather spend 7 bucks a month to risk a ban then to not gain any profit at all.
The whole protect the game developer thing. Sorry if it that is such a big deal once again why isn't M$ targeting places like Gamestop and such? I mean they rape the consumer that paid $60 for a new game and then that consumer sells it for cash they may only get 20-25 bucks then Gamestop turns around and sells said game for 50-55 bucks and the developers don't see a dime of that money. They are just as bad as pirates.
also for the ones complaining about the TOS read this from this link.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html
Much respect for c4eva why doesn't M$ seek this guy out and put him on the payroll is beyond me. No matter how hard M$ tries to stop the online backup playing it will never happen. There is alaways someone smarter and better then M$.
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timmaht
Newbie
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13. November 2009 @ 19:11 |
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Originally posted by dvbranton:
being able to install to the hard drive wasn't able to do right out the box it took a dashboard update to allow that since it came from XBL then yes they do have the right to disable it since we did violate the rules.......... Now since everyone claims M$ wants console sales then that is fine Arcade is cheap anyway only $200 just put 5 bucks for every game you download and there you go new console once you get banned. Class action lawsuit isn't going to work. Just bite the bullet and get a new console and just deal with it. It is a risk to mod
One thing I don't understand is why are they not banning the tags? They dont, they just ban the console. You would think for the price drop on the PS3 M$ would take a different stance since now the person with a ban can get an elite or now a ps3 either way if one wants to play "legit" you still have to buy the games. I wonder how many of you would rather risk getting a tag ban or a console ban. Personally a tag ban is more profitable due to the fact of if M$ banned over 1 million consoles and lets just say for arguments sake 50% don't buy a new console and 20% do but 30% buy a PS3. M$ loses in the long run, Thus banning the tags would make M$ more money. I am sure most would rather spend 7 bucks a month to risk a ban then to not gain any profit at all.
The whole protect the game developer thing. Sorry if it that is such a big deal once again why isn't M$ targeting places like Gamestop and such? I mean they rape the consumer that paid $60 for a new game and then that consumer sells it for cash they may only get 20-25 bucks then Gamestop turns around and sells said game for 50-55 bucks and the developers don't see a dime of that money. They are just as bad as pirates.
also for the ones complaining about the TOS read this from this link.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html
Much respect for c4eva why doesn't M$ seek this guy out and put him on the payroll is beyond me. No matter how hard M$ tries to stop the online backup playing it will never happen. There is alaways someone smarter and better then M$.
Interesting website about copyright law definition but it doesn't get to the heart of their ToS gripe. This site basically says you can copy something but never use them, ala "archival". That's pretty dumb since you would use the copy on the basis of preserving the original. And I would think the copying of software would only concern the the video game company that produced the game not the console manufacturer.
But an interesting read though, I do agree with you that ideally they should probably go after the ones creating the original modification, but it seems in the programming community if they caught someone and prosecuted them that person would go down as a martyr and 5 more would rise up to take his place...maybe I've watcher Hackers too many times...
Killing is bad and wrong, killing is Badong.
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Senior Member
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13. November 2009 @ 22:19 |
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Originally posted by ruff4life:
Sounds a lil crazy and maybe I don't have the full picture and I do know the risks that some have taken by modding their consoles. But the risks do not measure up to the punishment and I believe that people who were hit in this last ban have a possible lawsuit. (Here Me Out) !!
I've been reading posts on this site for some years now. I finally decided to chime in this year. I have been in the console modding and backup scene since the commodore 64 and I have never had any issues before. Since I got the 360 I stayed away from it because I do enjoy all of the features and did not wanna risk it. Well one day I decide to take a chance. In less than 2 months 2 months I have a banned console. OK! Big Whoop! I took that risk. So me not being able to talk to the on xbox live partner or being able to play a new racing game in a room full of rookies with all the assists on or a FPS room full of kids with modded controllers killing me and camping out at spawn points will be sorely missed. (As you can see my online experience is not all that great. Maybe Cus I suck too) But disabling the features of MY Console (THAT I PAID FOR) which have nothing to do with live is ABSURD.
Lets look at it like this. I buy an xbox elite with no live account. I live in the sticks so high speed Internet is not an option all I have is an xbox. I by a game and I install to hard drive. I mod my system and still have same features. i never get online nothing ever changes. I will always have the same features. If MS had any way of coming to my house and locating my modded system, Would they have the right to disable My features From My console Manually. The answer to that is NO. They do have the right to not allow me on Xblive (I Guess) but after that there reach into the features of my purchased console is limited.
If I am Wrong Please tell me I am not with sarcasm but sound facts . And please site your fact because My attorney will be looking into this and as we all know they can use all they help they can get to go against a giant.
i feel the same way about my drug dealer!
that bastard sold me second rate shit!
i called my lawyer and he said i had a case, cant promise good stuff and only give fair stuff.
ill teach him, ill take this case to the supreme court if need be.
I have lost all and any respect i had for this site!
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Wiiman50
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. November 2009 @ 23:28 |
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There is no way to circumvent the laws that have been placed accurately by experts who practice laws for corporations. We are looking at these possible violations by playing and modding a damn console.
1. Copyright violation
2. Using hardware in terms that support the violation of copyrights
3. Software Piracy
4. Hardware Piracy
5. Over 3000 dollars of pirated software.
6. Illegal back ups of software
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ss2trunks
Member
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13. November 2009 @ 23:40 |
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NONE OF THE HARD DRIVES ARE DISABLED ALL DATA IS STILL ON THEM GO TO MY THREAD TO SEE HOW TO RECOVER UR DATA
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. November 2009 @ 08:21
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ss2trunks
Member
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13. November 2009 @ 23:41 |
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Junior Member
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14. November 2009 @ 00:39 |
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Originally posted by dvbranton:
One thing I don't understand is why are they not banning the tags?
im pretty sure they dont ban the tags because of retards like me lol. my first box got banned about 6 months into my year subscription, didnt plan on buying a new 360 at the time for xbox live, i was gunna cancel my subscription, but lazy me kept putting it off. then i went to iraq probably with like 1 month left on my subscription, they ended up renewing my year subscription and there was nothing i could do about it, i wasnt able to call from iraq and say "cancel my live and give me my money back." long story short, they are probably hoping that people forget about their live accounts and dont cancel it so they can keep stealing from you. theyre the real pirates lol
2/2 BANNED!
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flipsterz
Newbie
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16. November 2009 @ 08:57 |
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I'm a PS3 guy and went through the "glitching" on-line with Modern Warfare where guys could shoot me through rocks, or underground, or fly through the air without damage. They modified the game/console and in simple terms " cheated " This made the online experience miserable for me and everyone else trying to play honestly. Modifying leads to cheating. You folks own the console or it's face not the programing as we all get updates periodically just like secuity updates on your computer through Microsoft. LEAVE the console alone as it was intended or come out with your OWN.
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shakey001
Newbie
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16. November 2009 @ 13:04 |
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You know, not for myself because I did take the risks and was aware of the possible repricussions but there must be many innocent and kinda "grey area" users I feel that are wronged by MS.
My brother-in-law for instance. Only asked me to mod his after he bought his third copy of Tiger Woods one year, and believe me, he was very diligent about caring for his disks, the second one cracked the third or fourth time he was removing it from the case, microsoft's older DVD drives in the Xbox 360 were famous for scratching disks as well..
Microsoft won't let you just replace a broken dvd drive yourself because you need tools to make the drive compatable with your system, do they supply a utility that can be used to transfer the "key" to a new dvd drive, no, they insist you mail it away to their repair service!
MS doesn't just cancel your subscription to Live, as a matter of fact because you "cheated" they allow you you continue paying for your membership if you wish??? but cripple the hardware in question, often only hurting some unsuspecting third party who later buys it second hand...
I think these are dishonest tactics by MS, the honest thing to do would be to delete the gamertag in question and cancel the subscription, no refunds.. Instead they allow cheaters to keep all their achievements as long as they go and spend $$ and punish the poor person that gets stuck with the banned unit. Why if they can detect this firmware so well, do they not just force you to remove the mod to re-instate Live? Why if they are just trying to create a fair and honest gaming experience do the "cheaters" get to keep their achievements? Because all they want is sales! BS that they lose $$ on the consoles, Perhaps when first introduced, but the development costs have been covered long ago...
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shakey001
Newbie
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16. November 2009 @ 13:07 |
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Ooops, well that is why I feel MS is wrong with the bans and I hope that someday someone brings this to court and wins...
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shakey001
Newbie
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16. November 2009 @ 13:39 |
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sorry, wish I could just edit my post...
But to continue, I think that is what makes it illegal on MS's part... I find many MS supporters here but by not allowing a person to repair their own console are they not restricting fair and ethical practises?
I am not saying that people that download games or make illegal copies are right, but I do think that MS punishing people that make legal backups or by restricting where the unit can be repaired is unjust as well
I suppose that you may argue that MS is justified because of the hacking attempts but I don't agree. Look at the price of a new DVD (Movie) and the price of a new game... Compare it for yourself. Is there not a lot of work that goes into making a movie, a Dvd? If Dvd's weren't so easily backed up or copied I bet the price would be much higher for Dvds, if you don't believe me, check how much a Dvd movie costs in countries where piracy is rampant! Are profits still made on Dvds, you bet..
and the more MS can drive up their sales by crippling hardware, the better it looks when their salesman knocks on the game developer's door and the more MS can charge them to license it for XBox (Higher sales = percieved larger market share even if the old ones end up in the dump long before they needed to) and didn't this large ban wave start right about the time September sales figures were released for console sales and since MS has nothing great to offer they can boost their sales like this...
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