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is ixtreme firmware leagal itself
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Senior Member
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20. January 2009 @ 13:59 |
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look if u mod some boxes for ur pals or for ppl via word of mouth then u will probably not get caught cause u arent telling the whole world what u are doing...now if u went on craigslist and sold a few u would probably get away with it but if u were to start selling them on a regular basis then yes u will most likely get busted cause the authorities would see a pattern and know u are turning a lot of product and at that point u become a problem. if u cant understand than then yes u are going to get busted for being dumb and advertising and drawing to much attention...its that simple.
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
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werty10
Newbie
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26. January 2009 @ 01:54 |
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lol why did you give him an example of people who used mod chips and got caught bhetrick? Show me one where a modder got in trouble for using firmware based modifications and they didn't sell games "spoon feed me". The only thing I found were people getting in trouble for using mod chips or selling games. Also Mikeismad it doesn't say that they'll prosecute all it says is that they'll revoke your license aka ban you from live if caught and void your warranty.
Id like to see a real lawyer comment on this thread and give us facts. Why hasn't Microsoft sued anyone using firmware based modifications who didn't sell pirated games but and just modded the xbox 360. There's a guy I know locally who puts his ads on craigslist who has been modding psps and xbox 1s and 360s through softmods for seven years and hasn't got in trouble probably because its not illegal.
To be honest its a grey area axel09 and you wont find answers here or from me the DMCA is crap there's been cases where people who use mod chips have won and people who haven't. I haven't seen anyone get in trouble for modding PSPs or XBOX 360s through firmware yet and they've been around for a while. A firmware modification doesn't circumvent to copyright protection because of the way it reads the backups forgot where I read it. I think sites don't host the firmware because there handing out tools that might be used to commit copyright infringement but technically a screwdriver can be considered a tool used to help commit copyright infringement.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2009 @ 02:20 |
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Originally posted by werty10:
lol why did you give him an example of people who used mod chips and got caught bhetrick? Show me one where a modder got in trouble for using firmware based modifications and they didn't sell games "spoon feed me". .
Maybe you should step back and read the title. The topic is about the legality of taking someone elses property, rewriting it, and using it for your own purposes.
Is someone allowed to walk in to your house, change the carpet and drapes, and call it their own home. Of course not.
This is the exact same thing. Someone took MS's code and modified it. That is their property.
It isn't about the actions which result from modding the firmware. This is about the firmware itself.
And as for modchips... what do you think is on them? Yeah, that's right, 90% of the time it's modified firmware.
Originally posted by werty10:
There's a guy I know locally who puts his ads on craigslist who has been modding psps and xbox 1s and 360s through softmods for seven years and hasn't got in trouble probably because its not illegal.
lol... so that's your professional opinion as to why it is legal to take other people's property and use it without their permission. Nice...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. January 2009 @ 11:57
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werty10
Newbie
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26. January 2009 @ 12:09 |
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That's totally different if I sold them the house then yes they'd be allowed to change anything in the house they like because its there's but if the house is still mine I can do what I want with it because I paid for it. If its just about the firmware itself why did you give him an example of people getting in trouble for using mod chips? Why didn't Microsoft even sign there firmware on the first hitachis? The guy who started it all never got prosecuted and he publically did interviews and announced he was the creator?
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Senior Member
1 product review
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26. January 2009 @ 12:15 |
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I'm really not sure why this argument is going on still, it IS illegal to take microsoft code and rewrite it for your personal gain. It clearly says so in the end user agreement in which by using the console you agree to.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2009 @ 12:19 |
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Originally posted by werty10:
That's totally different if I sold them the house then yes they'd be allowed to change anything in the house they like because its there's but if the house is still mine I can do what I want with it because I paid for it.
You're still not getting it. Nothing was sold. Just because someone buys a 360 does not mean they now have ownership of the software.
You do not own it, PERIOD. You've only purchased the right to use the software as it was originally intended.
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werty10
Newbie
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26. January 2009 @ 13:06 |
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Ok to the edited post above modchips don't use firmware hacks they use modified Microsoft Bios. It doesn't say its illegal all they say is that they'll revoke your rights to the warranty and xbox live Mikeismad. Why isn't the creator of this firmware hack not being prosecuted even though he came out publically and said he was the one who modified the code? Probably because the firmware was never signed in the first place or there was some sort of loophole in the law that allowed him to do this and still allow us to do it.
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Senior Member
1 product review
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26. January 2009 @ 13:20 |
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I'm done arguing with you, think what you want, its illegal.
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werty10
Newbie
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26. January 2009 @ 13:26 |
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You cant come up with any facts or reasons why its illegal other than the user agreement which states all they'll do is revoke your warranty and xbox live privileges. Your not done arguing, you just have nothing left to argue with.
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Senior Member
1 product review
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26. January 2009 @ 14:02 |
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If voiding your warranty, breaking a contract, and being banned from xbox live isn't enough to make you see that it's illegal, then why don't you read further up where it says Quote:
just putting in my two cents. as i know the law, it's illegal to modify any electronic device in a manner that circumvents any DRM.(DMCA) so that would make the process of modding your 360 illegal. and as others said, seeing that the firmware is a modified version of microsoft's copyrighted platform, i'm pretty sure that would be illegal as well. and while u can download off the web, it's usually a single person uploading it. legimate sites never have the firmware, i.e. xbox-scene, xbox360 hacker ect. and they usually site that its the platform is copyrighted by microsoft.
bypassing copyright protection is illegal in the United States of America. If that isn't clear enough for you then, perhaps I can point you in the direction of plenty of literature that will clear that up for you.
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snowbb451
Junior Member
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26. January 2009 @ 16:03 |
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Originally posted by werty10:
To be honest its a grey area axel09 and you wont find answers here or from me the DMCA is crap there's been cases where people who use mod chips have won and people who haven't. I haven't seen anyone get in trouble for modding PSPs or XBOX 360s through firmware yet and they've been around for a while. A firmware modification doesn't circumvent to copyright protection because of the way it reads the backups forgot where I read it. I think sites don't host the firmware because there handing out tools that might be used to commit copyright infringement but technically a screwdriver can be considered a tool used to help commit copyright infringement.
ok, so i don't see why you would say he DMCA is crap. it's the law. and if the firmware makes it possible to play a burnt copy of a game. it is circumventing the DRM is some manner. it doesn't matter the route. and as far as the DMCA it's the action thats illegal. so as i said before, i don't know if the modified firmware itself is illegal but the process of modding your console in a way that allows you play a game that is not a retail copy,is illegal.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2009 @ 17:18 |
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Originally posted by werty10:
You cant come up with any facts or reasons why its illegal other than the user agreement which states all they'll do is revoke your warranty and xbox live privileges. Your not done arguing, you just have nothing left to argue with.
You got to be kidding...
Fine. Show us where it's legal to reverse engineer other peoples property, modify it, and use it for your own purposes.
This is like trying to explain "2+2=4" to a doorknob.
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Newbie
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27. January 2009 @ 08:36 |
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Omg it is only in the states, that a law like that can be made. hehe
I would be pissed if i had to give so mutch money for a console and then i dont own it. In US you cant even open the console thats illigal to. Its only stopping all progress of future development.
Sorry my english is bad :-)
My Consols:
Playstation 2 Fat
Playstation 3 Fat
Xbox (Broken)
Xbox 360 Halo edition
Xbox 360 (Broken)
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Senior Member
1 product review
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27. January 2009 @ 21:18 |
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its not illegal to open your xbox, and you do own the xbox, you just down own the copyrights to the software and whatnot that powers the system.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. January 2009 @ 21:26 |
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Originally posted by mikeismad:
its not illegal to open your xbox, and you do own the xbox, you just down own the copyrights to the software and whatnot that powers the system.
Exactly.
But it's just too much for some to get that through their thick heads.
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nuxtux
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. January 2009 @ 11:23 |
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Originally posted by wabashman:
Originally posted by paynfull:
I believe it is seeing how you can't get it off any link on the net. YOu have to dl a program or go on irc to get it.
what, you can get it directly off the net without download a program, or using irc. just google it, theres only about a million different sites that are hosting it for direct downloads. however, i think it might be illegal as your are modifying MS's copyrighted product. but on the other hand, once you buy the console it is yours so you should be able to do whatever you want with it, just as with a car, or your house....
No. international laws stats it not 100% yours. Microsoft still owns a good percent of that console long before you even bought it, and forever more.
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Senior Member
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28. January 2009 @ 14:11 |
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i think the confusion here with the whole "ms owns ur 360" needs to be addressed. When you buy a 360 you own the hardware but you do not own the software that is inside that hardware like the operating code and such which does include firmware. Those items albeit not physical in form are still owned by MS and any altering of those items/code to circumvent copyright protections/DRM is where the legal issues arise.
so when u buy a 360 u own the hardware but not the software code in the unit, however u do own a liscense to use said code and software for its intended use without altering it. so when u are agreeing to those "terms of use" u know those things u never read but always agree/accept anyway those are basically u agreeing to all their terms and such and basically agreeing not to mess with their code. im not being super exact here but i think u can get my point, so do not flame me for not quoting it exactly the way it is used.
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2009 @ 14:13
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werty10
Newbie
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28. January 2009 @ 14:57 |
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None zero of you have answered my question as to why the creator of this hacked firmware never got in trouble. He backward engineered the firmware and gave away the hack to other hackers and he came out publically that he did it. They never tryed paying him off or sueing him why?
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Senior Member
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28. January 2009 @ 15:10 |
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they are making enuff money from the ban waves every year. Novemeber = large number of people getting banned. also the start of the holiday season is at that time. a certain % of the people that get banned will go out and buy new consoles which = a boost in holiday sales numbers for MS. it is a blessing in disguise for them. yes some of their games get pirated but that is more a problem for developers and publishers of said games since there are more 3rd party titles out there than MS titles. MS makes more money from hardware sales anyway i think...by the way this is a theory. and you will never get a real answer to your question cause no one can say they know for sure unless u get it from microsoft themselves....so stop holding ur breath already and go enjoy ur hacked shizznit already.
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. January 2009 @ 15:11 |
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@ werty10
Are you purposly trolling, trying to stir people up?
Whether he got in trouble or not still DOES NOT change the law. Maybe he's in a country which wouldn't extradite him to the US for something like that.
Who knows... why don't you get on the irc and ask him yourself instead of trying to get hearsay from others?
The fact remains that this thread is not about why he hasn't gotten in trouble, it's about the legality of the firmware itself.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2009 @ 15:11
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axel09
Junior Member
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28. January 2009 @ 15:51 |
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yes that is what I said dude they have no facts they just have goofy avatars litle profiles in there sig. No one has gotten charged so its not illeagal we all know that there is nothing to argure exept these guys with the avatar sig say" its not yours if you buy it" that is the stupidest thing I have ever herd anyone say that can speak.
xbox fan
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axel09
Junior Member
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28. January 2009 @ 15:57 |
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ms dosnt own the software that is in my 360 get it through your head. LIke I said earlyer in the thread you buy a computer with windows on it you can do what you want with windows it is yours,not ms's.your own everything and can alter it in any way. If you are to stupid to understand and just want to think you are cool because you think you are doing something illeagal thats fine. I am not saying the firmware isnt illeagal if you are trying to sell it it might be but just itself for free its not illeagal. If im wrong show me something more than you thinking its ms's software and not my property I bought.
xbox fan
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. January 2009 @ 16:20 |
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Sorry, but you're wrong. MS does own Windows, and MS does own the software in your 360. That's why a new pc comes with a certificate of authenticity for Windows which clearly states that it is their property, you only own the rights to use it in it's original form, you can not duplicate, modify, etc., yada yada yada.
Answer me this... if, according to you, I own the software when I purchase it and can do what ever I want, then if I were to make a copy of it, why is that considered counterfiting? According to your way of thinking, I paid for it and I should be allowed to copy it, sell it, or even give it away. So why is it illegal to do any of that?
Now please don't tell me you've also never heard of people being charged with that.
If you own a house, are you allowed to burn it down? No.
If you own a car, are you allowed to drive it as fast and dangerously as you want? No.
Just because you've purchased something does not mean you have exclusive rights to do anything you please.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2009 @ 16:25
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. January 2009 @ 16:43 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2009 @ 16:53
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Senior Member
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28. January 2009 @ 16:47 |
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Originally posted by axel09:
ms dosnt own the software that is in my 360 get it through your head. LIke I said earlyer in the thread you buy a computer with windows on it you can do what you want with windows it is yours,not ms's.your own everything and can alter it in any way. If you are to stupid to understand and just want to think you are cool because you think you are doing something illeagal thats fine. I am not saying the firmware isnt illeagal if you are trying to sell it it might be but just itself for free its not illeagal. If im wrong show me something more than you thinking its ms's software and not my property I bought.
LMAO there is a huge difference between a OPERATING SYSTEM THAT HAS A USER INTERFACE and firmware which is low level software coded into the chips that you cannot access thru conventional use as oppose to windows which you must access with the user interface.
and if you could alter windows in anyway like you said then why does it do authentication checks to see if it is legitimate/LEGAL.
and just cause someone hasnt been charged with making hacked fw doesnt mean it isnt illegal. like someone said before the person that made it could be in a different country than the USA and cant be prosecuted, how do u think so many ppl get away with identity theft....cause they are in countries which have no laws against internet crimes or identity theft so they cant be prosecuted and the local law in their country isnt going to pay to send them to the us to be prosecuted.
oh and you are wrong and we have stated proof in the form of microsofts terms of service agreement and all such agreements that must be accepted to even get on xbox live and use a 360. go ahead and read thru the legal documentation that came with ur 360 dude... if u have the brain power to even comprehend it which i am starting to think you do not posess...and btw its spelled legal not leagal or illeagal
from the sound of it though it does not matter what we say or show you or prove cause you have already made up your mind that you already have the right answer and that answer is whatever you want it to be.
Originally posted by larrylje:
We have told you what the DMCA says. It is against the law to circumvent copy protection. That includes software and hardware.
We can't help that you are to lazy to google DMCA and read for yourself.
LOL i think that is the most accurate thing that has been said in this thread
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. January 2009 @ 16:59
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