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convert PAL to NTSC
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replayed
Newbie
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7. July 2004 @ 20:43 |
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Any advice on dealing with subtitles when doing PAL to NTSC conversions?
No matter what method I use (I'm tried TMPGEnc, Nerovison Express, and Womble), I lose the subtitles in going from PAL to NTSC.
I would think there would be some demand for a simple mechanism that would let you input a VIDEO_TS structure in PAL format and get back the same structure (subtitles and extras included) in NTSC format. What current piece of software gets us closests to this holy grail? Anyone know?
Thanks.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. July 2004 @ 20:44
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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7. July 2004 @ 22:38 |
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If you do a Proper PAL to NTSC Conversion and use the correct software you will not loose the Subtitles but you will loose any special features which you could also add but it is a Little more complicated...
But alas Right now I do not have the time to explain in a step By step Basis how to do it...I have tried a few times to explain it in this Thread but after 2 or 3 hours of Typeing and still not finnishing I decided not to post the Instructions at all as I allways ran out of time and I still had many more hours of typeing to do before the Instructions were finnished...sorry
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replayed
Newbie
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7. July 2004 @ 23:42 |
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That's cool. Thanks at least for wanting to help.
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wmaudio
Newbie
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9. July 2004 @ 22:02 |
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Minion...while you sound extremely knowledgeable by speaking in complex sentences and using technical jargain, most of what you say is wrong. LOL. TMPGEnc will re-encode video without getting jitter or flickering, and there is way more to converting between the two formats than making the audio sync up.
Here is a complete conversion guide that works 100% of the time:
Converting PAL Video to NTSC (DVD)
Preliminary Notes
1. You can only do the movie portion of the disc. In the case of an episode DVD, you will need to rip each episode to its own folder).
2. You can put about 160 minutes of video on one DVDR without a quality loss.
3. Once you rip the title or movie to the hard drive, don't move any files unless instructed to do so.
Software You Will Need
1. SmartRipper v2.41
2. DVD2AVI v1.77.3
3. TMPGEnc v2.521.58.169
4. TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.5.15.49
5. DVD2One v1.4.0
6. About 10GB of free space per hour of video
1. Prepare Folders.
1a. Create a folder called "dvd" (if ripping episodes, it'd be \episode#\dvd) and then create the following folders in \dvd\:
a. Rip
b. DVD2AVI
c. TMPGEnc
d. Vobset
e. Final
f. Extras
2. Rip the Video with SmartRipper.
2a. Launch SmartRipper and rip the DVD or desired title to \dvd\rip.
2b. Close SmartRipper and move all files except for the vobs containing the video data to \dvd\extra. Also keep in mind that sometimes you'll end up with a "vts_*_01.vob" file that is 0 bytes. You can move that to the \dvd\extras folder too, as well as any other .vobs that are 0 bytes.
3. Demux the Video with DVD2AVI.
3a. Launch DVD2AVI.
3b. Load the titleset or DVD from \dvd\rip into DVD2AVI by clicking File > Open and selecting the first .VOB in the titleset and clicking OK. DVD2AVI should select the rest of the vobs in that titleset automatically. Review the list to make sure that the vobs you want demuxed are included, and click OK.
3c. Press F6 to view the file info, and then press F8 to perform a pre-scale decision on the audio track. This ensures that you get the highest quality audio in the same size .wav.
3d. Enable Audio > Output Method > Decode to WAV.
3e. Click File > Save Project and save it to \dvd\DVD2AVI (this creates a .d2v and a .wav file). When it's finished, close DVD2AVI.
4. Convert the Data to NTSC with TMPGEnc.
4a. Open TMPGEnc.
4b. If the wizard doesn't start automatically, click File > Project Wizard.
4c. In the wizard, select DVD NTSC 16:9 if your original video is wide screen and DVD NTSC if it isn't. The audio should be set to CBR Linear PCM Audio. Click Next.
4d. Click the Video Browse to \dvd\DVD2AVI and select the .d2v file created by DVD2AVI.
4e. Click the Audio Browse and select the corresponding .wav file (it should also be in \dvd\DVD2AVI). Leave the selections at the bottom of this display alone and click Next.
4f. Check the Clip Frame checkbox, and then in the resulting display frame up your video by removing black bars from all sides. Click OK, which brings the previous dialog back up. At this point, you can choose whether or not you want to increase the quality setting used by TMPGEnc. The default is "Motion Estimate Search (fast)" which produces GREAT video. If you are happy with that setting, just click Next. However, if you are anal about this you can change it by clicking the "Other Settings" button and then changing the Motion Search Precision setting at the bottom of the dialog to a different option, but keep in mind that anything higher will take twice as long or more to encode, and there is no real quality increase. After changing to the desired setting, click OK and then click Next.
4g. The next dialog to be displayed is the bitrate Setting. Leave everything set to auto, and click Next.
4h. Browse for the output file to \dvd\tmpgenc. Leave the filename as it is as this will correspond to the DVD2AVI files you specified earlier for the project. Click save, and then click OK. Encoding will proceed (this usually takes 1. 5 minutes for every minute of video). When it's finished, you will have a beautiful NTSC 29. 97 fps .m2v video file and a corresponding re-encoded .wav file. Close TMPGEnc.
4i. At this point, you can delete the files in \dvd\rip, \dvd\extras and \dvd\dvd2avi\ if you're running low on hard drive space.
NOTE: If the total of all of your resulting .m2v files (in \dvd\tmpgenc\) is over 9. 75GB, you've got too much video for one disc. You'll need to then start the process again eliminating video from somewhere (figure about 62MB for each minute of video) to bring that down to 9.75GB or lower.
5. Author and Create the DVD Vobset.
5a. Open TMPGEnc DVD Author (TDVDA).
5b. Click Create New Project.
5c. Click Add File and browse to the m2v file in \dvd\tmpgenc. Select the title and click OK.
5d. TDVDA will scan the video and then display the Add Clip dialog, where you can set your chapter points by clicking Chapter Cut Edit (if you want chapters). After doing that, click OK (do NOT enable the audio re-encoding option). Click OK.
5e. Rename the track by clicking the Settings button on that track on the left side of TDVDA (in the chapter list). Do not change any of the settings there except for the name. Click OK.
5f. After adding all tracks (movies will only have one and episode discs will have several), click the Create Menu dialog and create your menu. If it's a movie, I usually choose No Menu from the dropdown.
5g. Click the Output button and specify the output to go to \dvd\vobset. Click Begin Output and just OK through all of the errors telling you that it's too big or that it's going to be a nonstandard DVD. The encoding process will start. When it's finished, close TDVDA.
5h. At this point, you can delete the files in \dvd\tmpgenc\ if you're running low on hard drive space.
6. Compress and Process the Video.
6a. Launch DVD2One and press the Select button for Source. Browse to \dvd\vobset and click OK.
6b. Press the Select button for Destination and browse to \dvd\final.
6c. Make sure Copy Mode is set to Full Disc, and the Compression Mode is set to Variable Ratio. Click next.
6d. Choose which audio tracks you want to include. I would recommend only choosing one; multiple audio tracks are OK, but at the (high) cost of video quality. Also, if you specified in TDVDA "no menu," then you can only choose one. Click Start.
6e. At this point, it will process and compress your vobset to ~4. 25GB, which you can burn to DVD using any DVD-Burning application (I use Nero 6 Ultra). Congrats! You now have an NTSC DVD!
6f. At this point, you can delete all files except for \dvd\final\ if you're running low on hard drive space, and then burn the data in \dvd\final\ to the \video_ts\ folder on your DVDR.
Minion...'tiz better to admit ignorance than to feign intelligence and be revealed. :)
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barben
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9. July 2004 @ 22:25 |
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This is how I did my conversion and so far haven't encounter any problem with good video and sound.
Converting PAL Dvd to NTSC Dvd Format ( summarize procedure ).
I'm going to convert a music video concert from PAL to NTSC but only the movie which
is what I need anyway.
DVDDECRYPTER v 3230
DVD2ONE v 1.40
VOBMERGE v 2.50
NEROVISON EXPRESS v 2.1.2.16
NERO BURNING ROM v 6.3.1.17
Length of Movie * 8.3Gig
NOTE : Make sure that you are using a registered version of Nero BURNING ROM to accomplish this conversion because of the DVD Video Plug-ins.
First, Rip the files using DVD Decrypter . It takes 17 mins 41 secs.
Secondly, Compress the movie using DVD2One. (only the movie). 9 mins
Third, Combine all the Vob's using VOBMERGE into a single VOB. 4 mins/5vobs
I need to combine to avoid a momentary flicker gap when the next VOB connect.
Fourth, Open Nero VSION EXPRESS and Make a movie using the single vob's made.
NOTE : No need to convert VOB to MPEG 'cause VOB is a supported video files. At this time, (authoring) you can do all the editing, chaptering and menus if you do so. (In my case, I do chaptering based on the songs of the Music Video Concert)
Afterwards, It will also detect that your movie is in PAL format and ask your selection to retain and I chose "NO" .
Finally, write the movie to hard drive. 3 hrs 30 mins
Fifth, Since my project created was bigger than the desired size, I have to use DVD2One again to compress. 9 mins. Doing this will wipe up the menus but not the chaptering.
Lastly, I used Nero BURNING ROM to finalize the movie........ 15 mins ( 4X ) and there was my movie concert in NTSC format. Good Video quality and sounds.
(Suggestion: You can try authoring 1 VOB or 2 just to test and see the results)
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Junior Member
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10. July 2004 @ 05:55 |
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barben I really liked and appreciated the time for the in depth explanations and also the "how to".. so I printed it. *S*
wmaudio I also like the explanations on using the different programs and the step by step guide and also printed it. It is more advanced, and my hats off to you as well for documenting how it was done.
I have barben's list of items already for doing the cooking for the recipie. I might also have some of the other "ingredients that wmaudio has mentioned (programs). I'll have to look and see. would riping the movie with DVDDecrypter in the proper mode (iso, file,) work as well as using SmartRipper ?
on a similar side note, when I move my analog movies from my 8mm camcorder into my computer I use a PCI card called WinFastTV2000 Xpert, which has 10bit encoding as opposed to the 8bit of the other models. I have set up the configuration for maximum video quality and save at 29.9 fps, and 10000 setup for the video quality, and it saves files (broken up into just a little over 1gb) as MPEG-2 files. These do play great with no loss of quality whatever if I play them with programs that can understand MPEG-2 as a file.
However, when I used Nero Vision (one of the older version numbers, around in Febr of this year) I creted the home movie with bacground main title and chapter menus etc. Looks like a regular DVD. But when I clicked on create DVD and saved either to hard drive (preferable as can do multiple copies from that) or to DVD the program seems to now recode my original MPEG-2 files and the result is a loss of quality over the orininal.
Ever hear of a way to set the Nero up so that it does not re-compress the MPEG-2 videos for doing a movie? I already have the movie saved as a great looking MPEG-2 file that is compressed. Just seems like the finished DVD movie from Nero just doesn't have the sharpness or video definitions of the original 'rip'.
vern
jenefarm@direcway.com
Cheers!
Vern
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein
http://vernsdidj.com (didgeridoo stuff) |
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barben
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. July 2004 @ 09:07 |
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I stop using nerovision awhile ago (older version) and switch to mydvd except that it won't convert. I'm still using mydvd until I tried the latest version and from then on, this is my priority application because of the conversion that I'm doing. Please note that registered version is highly needed 'cause of the video plug-ins which i emphasized.
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Junior Member
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10. July 2004 @ 09:43 |
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Well, I paid for the download and have a "registered" version I do believe. I also paid for a download of some MPEG-2 Nero file for encoding some time back. seems like I have a lot of Video codecs in my computer at the moment. *S*
Just for the sake of clarity, you stopped using the "older" Nero Vision Express program but you DO use the newere release of Nero Vision?
Cheers!
Vern
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein
http://vernsdidj.com (didgeridoo stuff) This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. July 2004 @ 09:44
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barben
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. July 2004 @ 10:05 |
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Yeah, Nerovision v2.1.2.16 is the one i'm using now than mydvd v5.2. For me, both applications works but i tried to learn more about nerovision now that it can do what i supposed to do (conversion)
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barben
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. July 2004 @ 10:25 |
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Upon reading this issue in other forum, I noticed that a lot of people are talking about frame rate and some other technical terms. My point is just to convert PAL DVD no matter what region it is to NTSC format so that we watch it here in US. There are some who just buy DVD player that can play multiformat, and i have no problem with that, infact i have those player, too, but what about my friend who don't have those player. Doing conversion is a big problem to a lot of experimenter like you and me too before, until i tried a combination of programs. OK, this is what i want and i believe what other people want, too, just to convert the whole movie or just the movie alone in NTSC or PAL. Before, I tried some programs but i never get to anywhere until i pick up some ideas to some people in different forum. Latest thing that i'm doing now is to adjust the volume of my finished DVD in AC3 , 'cause the sound of this PAL DVD music concert is too low, but i managed to figure it out now. So, so far no regrets guys, try it and you will get good results.
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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10. July 2004 @ 13:59 |
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wmaudio: Maybe you can not see the Flickering when converting PAL to NTSC with TMPGEnc but I can, and when you have worked in a professinal studio for 6 years and go to broadcasting school for 2 years then maybe you will be qualified to say im wrong but till then have a little more respect...
Here"s a few Facts...
#!) TMPGEnc uses Field and Frame Decimation and Duplication to convert Frame rates and anyone who has worked in a Professinal Studio will tell you that is not the Proper way to Convert Frame rates....
Even Hori the Creator of TMPGEnc Knows that TMPGEnc can not do proper frame rate conversions and he has stated as much ....
How do you think that TMPGEnc converts say 25fps PAL to 29.976fps NTSC?? Well it just duplicates every Fifth Frame so when you are Watching the Movie you are seeing repeated frames which is what causes the jumpy Playback in high motion scenes, you do not notice because you aren"t trained to notice it but I am cuz If my boss saw any sort of artifacts in any of my work I could get in big trouble and he checks for duplicate frames and other artifacts....
Don"t you think it would be better to slow the 25fps down to 23.976fps and then add the 3:2 Pulldown Flags to make it 29.976fps?? Well it is, because the reverse of that is how the PAL DVD was originally created from the NTSC Footage and it is the Proper way to convert PAL to NTSC.....
There is a way to properly convert the Video to NTSC useing TMPGEnc...
You do it by setting the frame rate to 23.976fps and select the "Do Not Frame Rate Conversion" in the Advanced settings and then encodeing the Video to Mpeg at 23.976fps...
Selecting this setting will make TMPGEnc slow the Video down to 23.976fps but the audio will not be in sync anymore so you use "Goldwave" to stretch the Audio to the exact length of the Video useing it"s "Time Warp" feature...
Now you use a Program called "DoPulldown" or "Pulldown.exe" to add the Pulldown flags to the Video file which will make it 29.976fps and then you just author the Streched audio and the Video file to DVD....
I can gaurantee useing that method will produce a better looking and smoother playing file than if you just encoded it normally useing TMPGEnc...
I"m not saying that Just encodeing the PAL DVD to NTSC with TMPGEnc won"t produce a file that is watchable, what i"m saying is if it"s worth doing ,it is worth doing right and the Best way possible...Don"t you agree??
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andmerr
Suspended permanently
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10. July 2004 @ 15:16 |
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minion:
when you had a go at me about converting files with cucusoft .Although you did point out to me that it wasnt true NTSC i thought "here you go some one who knows everything" again.Well you wre right i did try your other method and found slight improvement but unless you really look and know what the differences are and should be then you dont seem to see them.
thank you for pointing out this to me and i guess from now on my projects end result will be a little bit better than what i have been getting in the past
andmerr
(always looking to improve my results)
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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10. July 2004 @ 16:33 |
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Quote:
on a similar side note, when I move my analog movies from my 8mm camcorder into my computer I use a PCI card called WinFastTV2000 Xpert, which has 10bit encoding as opposed to the 8bit of the other models. I have set up the configuration for maximum video quality and save at 29.9 fps, and 10000 setup for the video quality, and it saves files (broken up into just a little over 1gb) as MPEG-2 files. These do play great with no loss of quality whatever if I play them with programs that can understand MPEG-2 as a file.
However, when I used Nero Vision (one of the older version numbers, around in Febr of this year) I creted the home movie with bacground main title and chapter menus etc. Looks like a regular DVD. But when I clicked on create DVD and saved either to hard drive (preferable as can do multiple copies from that) or to DVD the program seems to now recode my original MPEG-2 files and the result is a loss of quality over the orininal.
Ever hear of a way to set the Nero up so that it does not re-compress the MPEG-2 videos for doing a movie? I already have the movie saved as a great looking MPEG-2 file that is compressed. Just seems like the finished DVD movie from Nero just doesn't have the sharpness or video definitions of the original 'rip'.
vern
I'm not familiar with your capture setup, and I don't encode with Nero, but from the quality number you mention (10,000) it sounds like you're setting the bitrate at 10,000kbps. The maximum bitrate allowed for DVD compliance is 9,800kbps, and the combined video and audio bitrates can't exceed 10,080kbps. That would mean it has to be re-encoded in order to make a DVD from it. If that is what the setting means, you should try lowering it to around 9,500 and see if that helps.
You should also remove your email address from your post. It's against the rules here ;)
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Junior Member
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10. July 2004 @ 17:21 |
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Thanks vurbal, I'll bring down the bitrate from 10,000 to 9500 and see if that helps. Won't loose quality? What about 9800 as that is the max setting in Nero Vision Express and it may see it as a "friend"
"You should also remove your email address from your post. It's against the rules here ;)"
How come?
Cheers!
Vern
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein
http://vernsdidj.com (didgeridoo stuff) |
Staff Member
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10. July 2004 @ 17:30 |
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Well 9,800 is probably safe, but that also assumes that there's no chance of exceeding your settings, which may or may not be true. My only real experience with captures is with a Sony hardware capture card so I can't tell you whether it would be a problem or not.
On the email address, it's because the admins don't want bots getting email addresses from the forums. You can always share your email address by PM.
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wmaudio
Newbie
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10. July 2004 @ 17:42 |
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Minion...I didn't mean to be disrespectful, and I don't feel that I was. However, I CAN see, and I would notice a flicker if there was one present, which there isn't. And, I compared the video quality to the original PAL copy, and to be honest it almost looks better (which I know isn't possible, but it doesn't have that "wierd" look to it like PAL does).
In any event, a person doesn't have to go to school for years and years and work at a video studio to see flicker in a video stream. So, unless you've tried it my way and witnessed the results yourself, you shouldn't knock my way, no matter what the technical reasons are.
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Junior Member
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10. July 2004 @ 18:57 |
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Thanks vurbal! No more addys in post. I'll knock it down to 9800 and give it a try. Just need to delete if not good is all, then retry a bit lower. Getting to be quite a lengthy thread considering the possibities of major reworking a video from PAL to NTSC. I was just intersted in case I bought a German DVD to watch in "English" subtitles to improve what I know of German language. Thought that might be kind of intersting.
I'm surprised that someone hasn't figgured out a package (give them time!!!) to do a PAL to NTSC conversion or other way arround.
Anyone ever have any luck with the Pinnacles Studio 9 for video editing and quality?
Cheers!
Vern
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein
http://vernsdidj.com (didgeridoo stuff) |
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replayed
Newbie
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11. July 2004 @ 09:46 |
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All of these cookbooks are great. And I really appreciate the time and effort that went into them. Thanks folks.
My concern is that none of them seems to take subtitles into consideration. As best as I can tell, all the approaches above will leave the subtitles behind in the process of doing the conversion from PAL to NTSC.
If I am wrong in thinking that, then I'd appreciate if anyone could confirm which of the above approaches they *know for a fact* retain(s) subtitles. If none of them do (as I suspect), then I'd appreciate some advice on that front.
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pastyboyz
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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11. July 2004 @ 10:33 |
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Perhaps the best solution is a DVD player that plays both. If don't one of those, (like me), you con convert a PAL to NSTC movie easily with Roxio 7. I have tried and works well.
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wmaudio
Newbie
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11. July 2004 @ 16:45 |
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You could always follow my guide except immediately after ripping the DVD, run through DVD2One (movie only) and pick one of the subtitles. Then run the resulting vobset through DVD2AVI, then through TMPGEnc then author the DVD.
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joshf
Newbie
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12. July 2004 @ 06:56 |
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This question is directed towards Minion, but help from anybody would be appreciated.
I want to convert from (NTSC 29.97 interlaced) to (PAL 25 interlaced). This is video I have shot myself, not DVD format.
I would like to change the speed of the NTSC video to convert it to PAL, not remove or duplicate frames.
This seems like it should be pretty simple, since I am not dealing with Progressive, and I don't need to reencode.
How can I use AVISynth to do this?
Thanks!!!
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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12. July 2004 @ 07:39 |
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You should be able to do this in AviSynth with this line:
AssumeFPS(25)
If you load both the video and audio and want to change the audio with AviSynth as well (which will also change the pitch significantly with this big a speed change) change the line to this:
AssumeFPS(25,audio_sync=true)
I have doubts about whether the result will be acceptable, but if it's fine with you then that's all you need. I would recommend using a separate audio editor to convert the audio since you should be able to get much better results that way.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2004 @ 07:39
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Junior Member
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12. July 2004 @ 08:54 |
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Vurbal: I gave the 9800 KBs a try last night getting the 8mm video movie from my camcorder into my computer (via Leadtek WinFast 2000 Xpert) I had it set for optimal video and 9800. Increased the color saturation, contrast, brightness just a wee bit. VBR setting and 29.97 fps . Turned out outstanding with Nero Vision Express 2.1.2.16 . Only thing is that the background pictures that are normally (or at least were last time) there are not. Only one was this goofy sunset scene of an island with a palm tree. Wonder where the rest of the images went to??
Anyway, it did go quite well! I did notic something with this 10bit encoding card. I can capture as NTSC, PAL or SECAM. Looks to me like I could do the very same thing of playing the DVD and taking it into the computer via the S-Video cable and stereo inputs, choose PAL and it would save it in PAL format. Just a though. This is throught he WinFast 2000 Xpert capture card.
Cheers!
Vern
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein
http://vernsdidj.com (didgeridoo stuff) |
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joshf
Newbie
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12. July 2004 @ 09:44 |
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If using AssumeFPS(25)by itself will not give good results, then what should I do to convert 29.97i-NTSC to 25i-PAL ?
Also, what should I do about the difference in resolution?
I'm not concerned about the audio. I can take care of it with Cool Edit.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2004 @ 09:50
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Staff Member
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12. July 2004 @ 11:40 |
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Unfortunately I can't help too much with how to convert interlaced material to PAL correctly because I'm mostly just familiar with the problems and not the solutions. This thread from Doom9's AviSynth forum may help: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67161&highlight=HYBRID+NTSC+to+PAL
If I'm remembering correctly that should do what you want, just with some additional functions you don't need because you have pure interlaced instead of hybrid (mixed film and video). It should also cover the resolution issue, but if it doesn't, let me know and I can help with that.
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