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convert PAL to NTSC
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tort
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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9. October 2004 @ 17:25 |
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Vegas 4, DVD Arcgitect 1.0?
Sorry, I ONLY have experience with and use, SONY Vegas 5.0 and DVD Architect 2.0.
The manual for Vegas 5.0 is HUGE, I'm still learning it, but I like DVD Architect 2.0, and use it for the DVDs in which I need to add audio tracks to, it supports 8 audio tracks and 32 subtitle tracks.
I have read the reviews and they say VEGAS has better MPEG Compression that DVD Architect 2.0, but the DVDs I've made so far using DVD Architects compression seem just fine.
Vegas 5 and DVD Architect 2 are HUGE Improvements over Vegas 4 and DVD Architect 1, so I can't say how they compare to anything else.
The only thing I don't like about DVD Architect 2.0, is that it does not have a way to make motion thumbnails for the chapters.
Another thing I find frustrating, I got the latest upgrade from SONY, you know, the GUYS that RELEASED the FIRST DUAL LAYER DVD Recorder, and it doesn't support Dual Layer Burning that I can see, hopefully SONY will release another update to support Dual Layer.
I don't think it supports it, but I haven't tried yet, converting between PAL and NTSC with Vegas, because when I tried to make a DVD with it first, it only supports CDs, and I haven't read the manual to find out how to export the video for DVD Architect yet.
I used Nerovision to make one DVD, and from what I can tell, you can select a menu, but I didn't try to add my own titles, etc., and I don't see Nerovision supporting a Main Menu, sub menus, and scene selection menus, it just makes a default menu with thumbnails for each chapter, and you can choose how many chapters on each page.
I mainly use Studio 9 to make DVDs, but when I need multiple audio tracks, DVD Architect 2.0 is the way I go.
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tgunn2760
Junior Member
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11. October 2004 @ 20:01 |
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Thanks for replying.
What I am trying to find out is how much better a program like Vegas 4 is than Nerovision 2.
I have used Nerovision 2 to make DVDs out of two AVI files. On one occassion the result was much better than the other, probably because one of the sources was an AVI from a DVD, whereas the second was an AVI from a television program. In both cases, conversion was required from PAL to NTSC.
Is there a program in the market that can what Nerovision2 does, with better results and is as user-friendly as Nerovision2?
Regards,
tgunn2760
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tort
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12. October 2004 @ 08:51 |
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Well, my Nerovision convert PAL to NTSC from a DVD RIP went okay, but the resulting video has flashes that occur at the top of the widescreen picture.
I'm not familiar with Vegas 4, all I know from the reviews are that Vegas 5 is a VAST improvement over it and DVD Architect 2 is superior to 1, the main problem people have with 2.0 is, as I said, the compression method it uses, they recommend using Vegas to render the video/audio streams.
I'm just now getting a copy of Avid Xpress DV PRO, and I will see how it is.
Nerovision 2 to me, is a way to convert the video/audio, but the resulting DVD using widescreen footage is less than perfect in my opinion due to the noise at the top of the image. This may be how it is with any video conversion, the top of the TV may not show the noise on Full Screen versions, since that part of the picture may be in the non TV viewable portion of the picture.
I will see what I can do with Vegas 5 and Architect 2 and can post my results, and I will also post on Avid DV Xpress Pro when I get it.
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Minion
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12. October 2004 @ 11:31 |
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Nero vision express doesn"t do proper NTSC/Pal conversions and that is why you get small flashes on the screen...
I don"t know why poeple still try to use crap software like Vision express to do complex video operations Like NTSC/Pal conversions, I guess they Like to get advice so they can ignore it.....
Vegas will Do a Much better Job of Converting Pal/NTSC but it isn"t as good as doing it the proper way which I have explained in this thread a bunch of times....
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tort
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12. October 2004 @ 13:13 |
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Actually the proper way to do it, is to use what I normally use, a Time Base Correction Digital Converter.
All I do to convert PAL/NTSC/SECAM, etc., is to play the DVD on my multisystem DVD Player, run the output through the converter and convert it, recording it in the new output.
The problem with that, as well as with ALL other ways posted, is this does NOT convert the ENTIRE DVD, which is the menus, etc..
I do NOT call having to RIP a DVD, then divide the audio and video files, then convert them, etc., a proper way to do it.
That's why they make TBC Multisystem Converters.
The problem with RIPPED anything, is that it degrades the qulaity of the video, all the ripped AVI's I have seen and used are low quality files.
I produce videos and DVDs, I KNOW how to convert them, but you can't convert the menus, I have to make new menus, insert the chapter points, etc..
What I would really like to have is a Software Package that will read in an entire DVD, menus, audio and subtitle tracks, and allow you to just choose from a drop down menu, output to NTSC, PAL, SECAM, and then click, and it just re-encodes everything and burns the proper format DVD.
Decoding the MPEG-2 and making it into a low resolution AVI, then running anohter program to separate the audio andvideo streams, then run another program to convert them, then yet another program to re-encode the streams to me is not the PROPER way to do it, nor is it easy.
The EASIEST and PROPER way to do it, is to put the DVD in, if you don't have a multizone DVD player to play the PAL DVDs, then you are out of luck, but you run the PAL video/audio into a TBC Converter, and set the output to NTSC, and just capture the output, then you just author the DVD with the NTSC DV capture.
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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12. October 2004 @ 15:37 |
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Actually trhe Proper way to convert PAL DVD"s to NTSC is to reverse the process that the Original Movie Studio used to make the PAL DVD From NTSC Footage in the First Place which is to slow down the PAL 25fps to 23.976fps and add 2:3 pulldown Flags to make it 29.976fps ,and you do the reverse of this to convert NTSC to PAL....
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buckv
Newbie
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12. October 2004 @ 17:25 |
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So there is no program that will take a disc ripped in IFO mode and directly convert to NTSC keeping all menus, chapter point etc. intact?
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Minion
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13. October 2004 @ 12:22 |
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No....Not one that does it properly...You could simply rebuld the DVD From Scratch useing the Menu"s and Chapter Info from the original DVD...I do this with most of my DVD Backups anyways but it is a Bit complicated.....
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buckv
Newbie
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13. October 2004 @ 12:39 |
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I know that canopus procoder 2.0 can convert directly to VOB.s I wonder if one could take the converted VOBs and add them to the other files from the PAL rip??
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2004 @ 12:52 |
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No Procoder can not convert Too VOB it will only Create Mpeg2 files.....
What Makes a VOB file different from a Mpeg2 file is the Information in the IFO and BUP files so if there are no IFO or BUP files then the VOB is no more than a Plain Mpeg2 file.....
A VOB file can only be created durring the authoring Process.....
You can Simply rip the Movie and the Special Features and the Menu"s all seperately and convert them to NTSC and then load them all into a DVD authoring program Like DVDLab and recreate the DVD from scratch...
If you know how to use a DVD authoring Program properly you should be able to figure out out how to do this....
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buckv
Newbie
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13. October 2004 @ 13:20 |
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There is a preste in Procoder 2.0 that reads:
MPEG2, DVD, 720 x 480, 29.97fps, 6Mbps, NTSC, VOB output for direct burning to DVD.
What does this actually do? Can't I take these converted VOBs and add them to the ripped PAL .BUP, .IFO files? Please excuse my dumbness but I'm still trying to learn all this. :-)
I do know how to rip a disc and Demux the audio, video etc. in order to put into an authoring program(I use DVD architect). Just trying to figure a way that I don't have to reauthor the whole disc. :-(
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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14. October 2004 @ 11:42 |
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Your Right Sort of , Procoder can export as a Video_TS folder with IFO,BUP, and VOB files that you can Just burn to DVD but it has no Chapters or menu"s which makes it a very Difficult Movie to watch because you can"t navigate through the Movie accept useing Fast forward which would take foreve if you were looking for a scene in the Middle of the Movie......
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Tovan_69
Newbie
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14. October 2004 @ 15:38 |
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I finished converting a PAL VOB file to a NTSC VOB file and i managed to size it to .99 go with good quality and great quality sound.
it works great..
Yesterday, i convert another PAL VOB file to NTSC VOB file, because i have a lot to do from the DVD , i use the same configuration as with the first one, i used Canopus procoder 2 as the software, but this time when i play it, i have lip-sync... any ideas why?
thanks..
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tgunn2760
Junior Member
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14. October 2004 @ 16:43 |
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Quote:
"Nero vision express doesn"t do proper NTSC/Pal conversions and that is why you get small flashes on the screen...
I don"t know why poeple still try to use crap software like Vision express to do complex video operations Like NTSC/Pal conversions, I guess they Like to get advice so they can ignore it.....
Vegas will Do a Much better Job of Converting Pal/NTSC but it isn"t as good as doing it the proper way which I have explained in this thread a bunch of times.."
I read what people post, and do not ignore good advice. The situation is, however, that I only have Nerovision2 and a copy of Vegas 4 presently. Before I go and spend hundreds of dollars on a program I may not often use, I am trying to find out which program/s is/are good, a good value, and easy to use.
What you say about Procoder, pull down flags etc don't mean a thing to me because I have not tried such steps. I am sure that if I had such a program and tried it a few times I would get the hang of it. But at this point, the Vegas 4 manual, to me at least, looks very intimidating.
Regards,
tgunn2760
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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14. October 2004 @ 18:14 |
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To do a NTSC/Pal conversion useing Vegas 4 is Quite easy....
Load your PAL or NTSC file into the Media Pool and then drag it to the Timeline at the Top and drop it there....
Then go to " File" to "Properties" and a window will pop up were you can put in the New resolution and framerate ect..So if you were converting PAL to NTSC you would Put in 720+480 as the Resolution, and "29.976fps NTSC" as the Frame Rate...
Then go to "File" to "Render as" and choose "MainConcept Mpeg2" as the "File Type" and were it says "Template" select "NTSC DVD" and then you can click the "Custom" button to adjust the bitrate and other perameters if you wish....
Then give your file a Name and click "Save" and then wait till it it has finnished encodeing and then you can author the Mpeg2 file to DVD useing Vision Express if you wish but I suggest something like DVDLab.....
If you do not have the Option to Save as Mpeg2 in Vegas then it is because you do not have the Mpeg Plugin registered in which case you could render the Project as a NTSC DV AVI file and then encode the DV AVI file to Mpeg2 DVD useing a Standalone encoder or even Vision Express if you wish ,That is if you have the DVD Plugin for Vision Express.....
The Method I use which slows the PAL 25fps video down to 23.976fps NTSC film uses mostly Freeware Tools accept for the Mpeg encoder which you can use TMPGEnc which is free for 30 days or any other encoder you have....
Cheers
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rbcunha
Newbie
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15. October 2004 @ 06:12 |
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From what I understood, the proper way to convert PAL DVD's to NTSC is to slow down the PAL 25 fps to 23.976 fps and add 2:3 pulldown flags to make it 29.976 fps.
I have an interlaced PAL DVD 625/50 that I want to try to convert to interlaced NTSC 525/59.94.
In this case, would it be better to de-interlace, slow down 25 fps to 23.976 fps and add 2:3 pulldown flags to 29.97, or just frameserve the PAL interlaced video stream to Procoder 2?
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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15. October 2004 @ 12:23 |
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What I would suggest in cases like this is to try both methods and see which one gives you the best results...
I personaly think that if you took the interlaced PAL Source file and used a Bob de-interlacer on it and then slowed it down to 23.976fps and then add the 2:3 Pulldown Flags to make it 29.976fps.....
Most of any Blurring that is caused from de-interlaceing can be cleaned up with a Sharpen filter, and you can do the De-interlaceing ,resizeing , Sharpening and slowing down the Audio and Video to 23.976fps useing AVISynth and your encoder can add the 2:3 Pulldown Flags or you can just encode it to 23.976fps and use a program Like "DoPulldown" or "Pulldown.exe" to add the Pulldown Flags....
I personally think this will produce the best results Compared to just encoding the File to 29.976fps useing Procoder because when working with interlaced Material there are more chances for Artifacts to appear and I believe this method will Plain just look a Lot better....
Let me Know how it turns out and if you don"t know how to use AVISYnth or do but don"t know of a Good script to do this for you then let me Know and I"ll post a AVISynth script that you can use to convert interlaced 25fps PAL to Progressive 23.976fps NTSC...
Cheers
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tgunn2760
Junior Member
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16. October 2004 @ 17:34 |
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FOR MINION:
Thanks for your help, I did what you advised and it is happening as I type this. I am using a PAL AVI file which I have already converted with Nerovision2 and burned to DVD. It is from a TV program, so the DVD is not of good quality.
Is it possible to import PAL VOB files into Vegas and convert them to NTSC VOB files?
By using the method you suggested-converting to MPEG2, doesn't the video lose quality?
Thanks again. Don't think I don't appreciate what you write, it is just that up to now I had not tried any of this, so it seems very difficult.
Regards,
tgunn2760
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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16. October 2004 @ 20:22 |
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Vob files are Mpeg2 files they are Absolutly the same Exact same format but yes anytime you encode a file to any Format there is some Quality Loss the ammount of Quality Loss depends on the Quality of the encoder you use and the settings you use in the encoder....
You can Not Just encode a VOB file and then replace the VOB with the Encoded file and use the same IFO and BUP files because VOB files have Information in there header that has to corespond with the Info in the IFO and BUP files and if it doesn"t then it will not work....
You can not use Vegas to encode VOB files to Mpeg2 because Vegas doesn"t support the AC3 audio in VOB files but if the VOB file had a Different audio format Like "Mpeg 1 Layer 2" or "LPCM" then it could encode the VOB.....
You are Not going to be able to get away with doing this unless you are willing to learn how to do it properly and take the Time to Learn and to go through the Process of doing it....
If I were there with you I could Show you how I do it in Probably 20 minutes but to explain every step would Take a Really long time as there are some fairly Complex Principals involved.....
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rbcunha
Newbie
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17. October 2004 @ 04:01 |
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Ok, I will try the "de-interlace/slow down/pulldown" method first. Here is my intended workflow:
1) DVD2AVI
Load VTS_1_01, 02...06 (movie)
Audio / Demux AC3
Save .d2v project
2) Create .avs script file (I could use some help here)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MPEGDecoder.dll")
MPEGSource("E:\Test\PAL_VTS_1_01.d2v")
Bob()
Sharpen(?) #Should it be placed here?
LanczosResize(720,480)
AssumeFPS(23.976)
SeparateFields.SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave() #or DoubleWeave()?
3) CCE
MPEG-2 ES Multipass VBR (2 passes)
Bitrate: Avg 4500 Min 2000 Max 9800
3:2 pulldown detection marked
4) If audio/video times are the same, author DVD;
if not, synchronize audio/video somehow...
I'd appreciate any suggestions.
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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17. October 2004 @ 13:24 |
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Hi ,What you should Do in DVD2AVI is if the PAL Movie is widescreen and has Black Borders on top and Bottom then you should use the Crop Feature in DVD2AVI to crop off the Borders, this will help when you have to resize the PAL 720+576 resolution to 720+480 without affecting the aspect ratio...
Many PAL DVD"s use the NTSC resolution of 720+480 but they add a 48 Pixel Boarder on Top and a 48 Pixel border on the Bottom to make the PAL 720+576 resolution so if this is the Case with your PAL DVD then you should be able to crop off the Black Borders and be left with a Resolution at 720+480 or at least close too it....
You should also use the "Decode to Wav" option in DVD2AVI insted of the Demux option because you are going to gave to convert the AC3 to WAV/LPCM anyways because you are going to have to Stretch the audio by about 4% to make it sync up with the NTSC Video....
Also in CCE do Not select the "3:2 Pulldown Detection" setting because this is Not for adding 3:2 Pulldown it is for detecting 3:2 Pulldown in the Source file and since you are Frameserveing a 23.976fps Progressive File to CCE there is no 3:2 Pulldown in the File...
To add the 2:3 Pulldown flags in your file you will have to do this after encodeing to Mpeg2 useing a Program called "DoPulldown" which is freeware and when you use it you Just Load the Mpv file created by CCE into it and then click the "Start" button and in a few Minutes it will freate a M2V file for you with the 2:3 Pulldown flags added, There are no settings to adjust as the Default setting are set up just right....
In CCE make sure you select the "ZigZag" scanning order in the "Quality" settings and also select the "Progressive Frame Flag" option...Also In the Quality settings Disable all of the Filters accept the "Effect Restricted vertical filter" and set it to "32" and set the "Quantizer Charistics" setting to "15" and set the "Intra Block DC Precition" to "10"......
Also try a Script like this one:
LoadPlugin("C:\Plugins\mpeg2dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Plugins\dgbob.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Documents and Settings\Video files\test.d2v")
DGBob(order=1,mode=0)
Sharpen(0.75)
LanczosResize(720,480)*
AssumeFPS(23.976)
(*) The resizeing will depend on your source files resolution after Cropping off the Borders, If you tell me the Resolution after cropping then I can tell you how to resize it without affecting the aspect ratio....
That script will deinterlace to a true Progressive File with little or No artifacts and slow the Video down to 23.976FPS NTSC film....
After encodeing and adding the 2:3 Pulldown flags you are going to have to find out the exact length of the NTSC video file..Don"t go by what CCE says the length is because it for some reason doesn"t show the Correct length...What I do is Load the M2V Video file into "Virtual-Dub-Mpeg2" and go to "file" to "File Information" and it will display the Exact length of the Video file which you should Write down on Paper...
You can download "Virtual-Dub-Mpeg2" here :
http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/stable/VirtualDub-MPEG2.zip
Now you are going to have to stretch the audio to the Length of the M2V video file which you just wrote down...
To do this you will need an audio editing Program called "Goldwave"....
What you do is Load the wav audio file that was decoded by DVD2AVI into Goldwave...
Then go to "Effect" to "Time Warp"...
Then select the "Length" option at the Top....
then Put the new Length that you wrote down in the space provided by the "Length" option...
Now Click "OK" and it will do it"s thing, It should only take a Couple Of Minutes...
Now go to "file" to "save as" and give the File a Name and save it as a PCM/Wav file....
Now you will have a WAV file and a M2V file that should sync up perfectly...
Now you have the Choice of encodeing the audio to Either Mpeg1 Layer 2 or Dolby AC3 or you can leave it as a wav file but that is not Practical because wav audio takes up too much space on the DVD....
If you don"t have a dolby AC3 encoder then i suggest you use "Mpeg 1 Layer 2" audio....
After you have encoded the audio to the desired format you Just Load the M2V video file and the Audio file into your favorite DVD authoring program and add your Menu"s and Chapters and author it to DVD....
I suggest useing DVDLab or some other Authoring Program that supports seperate audio and Video files like "Tmpgenc DVD Author".....
If you have any Questions let me Know....
Good Luck....Cheers
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tort
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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17. October 2004 @ 18:41 |
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Well, sorry I'm late in posting this, since I haven't had access to my vomputer for awhile, but here goes:
To the PERSON who posted this CRAP: The proper way to convert PAL to NTSC is to reverse what the movie studio did in the first place by making PAL from an NTSC source...
Okay, MR. DUMBA**
EXPLAIN TO ME HOW the Movie Studio did this:
You're saying MGM, for example, took the NTSC MASTER 35MM FILM of GONE WITH THE WIND, and they converted it to a PAL 35MM FILM, then captured it to DVD?
Since when is 35MM Film in different Television FormatS?
Or, for WIDESCREEN, 70MM Film...
I can't WAIT to HEAR this explanation....
As to NTSC TV shows, I can understand that...
Most Movies are released in the UK, PAL FORMAT, before they get released in the USA.
The 35MM or 70MM FILM is RECORDED into the DV format of that country, then converted to MPEG and burned onto the DVD.
Television Standards are DIFFERENT, NOT MOTION PICTURE FILM Standards.
Gee, sorry I didn't bring any pictures home from my trip to Europe, I didn't take any extra film with me, and that DARN PAL 35MM film wouldn't work in my NTSC 35MM Kodak Camera....
I think certain people should take Motion Picture and Filmmaking Courses like I have, and actually produce videos and DVDs for a profession....
The Movie Production companies do NOT manufacture NTSC DVDs, then CONVERT them to PAL. There European Division, RECORDS the ORIGINAL FILM into PAL or SECAM DV Video, then sends the COPY of the MASTER DV TAPE to the DVD ROM manufacturing place, which then presses the DV tape onto Dual Layer DVD ROMs.
Then several months later they do the same in NTSC DV for release in this country and other countries that use NTSC.
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drwax
Newbie
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21. October 2004 @ 20:16 |
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Hey WMAUDIO, thanks for the handy guide on changing PAL to NTSC but i have a question. When i was done converting my dvd from PAL to NTSC and played it in my standalone dvd player i noticed that the sound was only 2 channel and not surround (ac3) etc. The video portion was excellent just no surrond sound only 2 channel. After going back over the steps i notice when using tmgenc dvd author that it only has an option for 2 chanell audio... hmm is this the reason my dvd is only in 2 channels? is there another dvd authoring prog that can read the outputed .m2v and wav file? seems like a waist that all the other progs in your recepie are keeping the AC3 quality then you get to authoring and it just ignores it hmm thanks for any help you can give :)
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rbcunha
Newbie
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22. October 2004 @ 05:47 |
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Minion, thanks for the important tips.
I´ve run into some problems with CCE, so I tried the second option - encode the PAL m2v file in Procoder, transcoding it to NTSC.
I´ve checked the Goldwave specs, but it doesn´t seem to support AC3 5ch audio. Since it is a music DVD, I want to keep the AC3 5ch audio.
The times for the (un-synced) audio and NTSC video files were the same (?), so I´ve inputted both into DVD-lab Pro and authored a DVD. Surprisingly, the sync was Ok... I believe the video was Ok for TV watching (I´m not a pro, so I don´t know what is acceptable).
Now I will re-author it, adding chapter points and a subtitle.
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altatens
Newbie
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22. October 2004 @ 14:29 |
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Can you guys be more specific on the actual steps to convert a PAL DVD to NTSC format. I already have all
the programs mentioned in the thread (Nero, DVD2One, superpak, decrypter, quicktime, vobmerge, power producer, virtual dub, xcopy express) now i need the know-how. I am sure many people in the forum would appreciate a more detailed explanation, like a tutorial you know?
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