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burn problems - disks or me hmmm?
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brobear
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11. June 2004 @ 10:56 |
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Whoa,
I was going to give a scathing review of this. Since it is a newbie, I'll just say, don't try this at home. If it works for ya, go with it. As for the rest of the world, there is a lot of bad advice here. Heat pockets, take the PC apart, use the cheap stuff, don't use the other DVD drive??? And the biggy, use Shrink to split movies?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. June 2004 @ 12:00
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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11. June 2004 @ 14:11 |
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I'll go one step further and add that if you have $30 disposable dollars and you spend a lot on media, then don't use shrink at all. If your broke and shrink is all that you can afford, use it.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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321sucker
Member
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11. June 2004 @ 14:27 |
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When I joined the forum,, I came here to add to my knowledge base and share experiences.
I've heard of some bad advice but thats a lot of bad advice..
Hey son,, stay here and learn..
A little knowledge is dangerous!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. June 2004 @ 14:30
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. June 2004 @ 14:40 |
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Be more specific, such as which advice was bad and why. Part of sharing experiences is benefiting from them and if someone didn't tell you that DVD Shink isn't the best and that there's a lot better out there, then they would be doing you an injustice. Instead of defending what you think you know, why don't you find out what you don't know. Try some other transcoders and see how they compare.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. June 2004 @ 15:48
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brobear
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11. June 2004 @ 15:38 |
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Sophocles,
Guess I took an easy out, though I did give a string of what was off with the rhetorical questions. I wouldn't want to field the where and how on that post for the simple reason this Newbie hit just about every way not to do things. You'd think someone who knew a lot about DVD Video was trying to yank our collective chain. This particular post by the newbie covers so much, I would suggest different threads to address the separate issues. Just pick the problem and search the forums. It would take a book to cover so many problems and wrong ways to do things.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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11. June 2004 @ 15:50 |
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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11. June 2004 @ 15:50 |
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Ooops!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. June 2004 @ 19:04
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brobear
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11. June 2004 @ 16:01 |
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Just did, left a message. Quick way to subscribe to the thread. ...Ditto, Ditto...
May hafta be a geezer to remember ditto.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. June 2004 @ 16:04
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Moderator
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11. June 2004 @ 18:58 |
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Quote:
Using a seperate DVD player to rip and then burning with another device is just asking for problems as the firmware may not be exactly compatible and you get data drop out errors from player to burner.
Total and absolute malarkey. The firmware has absolutely no affect on the actual data being transferred to your hard drive and back again. The drive will either read it or it won't.
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try and us media that has very little writing or paint on top as this can cause the laser to flare when it is burning hence the second suggestion to take off the sides of your computer to let it get as cool as possible. Even low level lasers generate heat and the paint on top can gather the heat in spots and cause burnouts.
This would qualify as something called "pure fantasy". How exactly does a laser "flare"?
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and lose maybe 4 or 5 in the whole pile but that is because of the next reason. You have to make sure the source DVD is spotless and as scratch free as possible.
Yes, it is good advice to make sure the source is clean but to suggest that a bad burn is caused by the source disc is unfounded. If the software is able to rip the original without any CRC or I/O errors the rip is good. Any problems with the burn would be related to either a faulty burner or low quality media.
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I usually rent a movie just as it is coming out to avoid that and I always check the disk before I leave the store.
Someone needs to read the forum rules, especially #5.
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Next.....forget about labelling your back ups. I know it looks cool and professional but trust me...it creates heat dams when you play them and the backups start skipping and freezing and once they start that they don't stop and are coasters.
Sound advice although I don't buy the "heat dam" theory. Labels have a tendency to spin the disc out of balance which causes read errors.
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Just use a very thin permanent marker to put the name on and decorate the case instead.
No argument there.
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.use DVD Shrink and re-author and drop all the crap(subtitles,menus,previews etc.) out to avoid compressing too much.
Good standard practice.
Some good, sound advice mixed in with some very creative and unfounded personal theory in my opinion :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. June 2004 @ 19:06
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drchips
Senior Member
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11. June 2004 @ 19:01 |
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Hiya Neph,
Hehehe
I was wondering when that guy was gonna get jumped..
You a man after my own heart.
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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Moderator
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11. June 2004 @ 19:05 |
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I couldn't pass up "heat dams" and "laser flares" :P
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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brobear
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11. June 2004 @ 21:08 |
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Nephilim
I'm going to have to remember those dam-flares for later reference. That was such a big load dumped all at once, I only had the heart to say it was mostly bull. I guess we should have told him to put the PC in the fridge if it was getting that hot.
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scruffy67
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11. June 2004 @ 21:28 |
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I found the that if u have verify data checked in DVD Decryter it will give problems on most burns un check this if it is and try that.
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brobear
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11. June 2004 @ 21:57 |
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Scruffy
Where did that gem come from? Who was talking about Decrypter?
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bloonight
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13. June 2004 @ 06:08 |
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To all who did their fine critique,
I realize some of what I wrote sounded fantastical but I really did go exploring and spoke to several people in the industry, particularly one guy who worked for Fuji and explained the problem with burning DVD media, any kind of DVD media.
First let's have a quick look at how the disk is composed according to the industry readout.
A DVD is composed of several layers of thin plastic, totaling about 1.2 millimeters thick. Each layer is created by injection molding polycarbonate plastic. This process forms a disc that has microscopic bumps arranged as a single, continuous and extremely long spiral track of data. Once the clear pieces of polycarbonate are formed, a thin reflective layer is sputtered onto the disc, covering the bumps. Aluminum is used behind the inner layers, but a semi-reflective gold layer is used for the outer layers, allowing the laser to focus through the outer and onto the inner layers. After all of the layers are made, each one is coated with lacquer, squeezed together and cured under infrared light. Labels are silk screened on and then the media is sold.
Since the layers of aluminum and gold that is compressed in the disk is so thin now(as compared to two years ago to meet cost savings) it is not as reliable as it was then thus the introduction of azo dye to help capture more light and retain data at a higher level. These layer are as thin as gold leaf and if you have had any experience with that you'll realize how delicate that is. Gold leaf is 1/10 the thickness of regular paper. In a DVD disk the laser tracks little bumps and lays down data by focusing the laser through the layer of gold.The disks are designed to function as they are made. They are not intended to be labelled by gum backed labels and all commercial DVD's are silk screened to exacting standards.When we slap on gum backed labels we throw the disks out of balance and also creating excess heat against the aluminum layer because the heat cannot dissapate away from the disk like it is supposed to. So when we burn it, it works okay and then when we label it and play it it starts to act funny because we have changed the composition of the original engineering of the disk. "Laser flares" and "heat dams" and just simplistic terms used to explain what happens when we put imperfect labels on near perfect disks. Remember that during manufacturing, the quality control people spin the test disks 100 times faster than home burners do just to test things like balance and taper for flatness. They are tested so when we spin them on out little slow moving machines they produce less errors due to vibration,imbalances due to out of square installations etc. The varying thicknesses of label gum can undo all that the manufacturers have spent billions to research and create.We enhance what perfections remain on their disks by adding the weight of gum labels, the trap against heat escape by the label and imbalance of not putting the labels on squarely. The disk works great when we first burn it but after a label is put on and a few runs on the stand alone makes data transference impossible and then the forums are filled with people asking question about why their disks worked great for a few times and then start freezing and skipping.
Add to this the comments regarding firmware please...the firmware is critical to transference of data and since different companies use different lines of coding in their firmware it can cause problems if it doesn't match. There is no industry standard for firmware like there is not standard for anything else in the computer world. Everyones software is the best and everyones elses is crap. Get the point and some software will actually compensate for data drop outs to complete the job so even though the burn completes successfully the software may actually have passed over the data drop outs to show a successful operation. Add this to the label problems and you can see why many more times than not you get problems.
Sorry gentlemen but reading and research make for more solutions than do the group brain banging and writings of a bunch of 15 year olds who have a new toy to play with and unlimited resources to throw away on disks.The rest of us are trying make ends meet and lessen the chance of wasting money. This should be your main goal here and not trying to outdo each other with possible solutions for the sake of looking the best here. Thank you for your attention and critical attacks on what I have written are expected but remember, my burn rate and success rate is well over 96% so just maybe...........good luck to all.
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bloonight
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. June 2004 @ 06:20 |
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PS
Please accept my intrusion into the piracy issue. I keep forgetting because in Canada it is not illegal to download music or make backups of movies.Sorry, won't happen again.
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64026402
Senior Member
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13. June 2004 @ 07:00 |
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bluemoon
I just use aluminum siding on my DVDs so it will catch the laser flares and dissipate the heat damns faster.
I understand about the legality of downloading and backing up in canada but what does that have to do with duplicating rental DVDs.
"I'm not a pirate, I'm just ethically challenged."
As for firmware. I can record to four different DVD burners at once and even at different speeds.
Not recommended but obviously firmware doesn't have the effect you think it has.
I burn home videos to mail to several family members so this comes in handy sometimes.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. June 2004 @ 07:50 |
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bloonight
When you copy and paste information from a web site it's considered to be good ethics to include the URLs or in some way give credit to the author. You've extracted entire paragraphs and then without reference to the author, added them to your very long spiel.
From your post:
A DVD is composed of several layers of thin plastic, totaling about 1.2 millimeters thick. Each layer is created by injection molding polycarbonate plastic. This process forms a disc that has microscopic bumps arranged as a single, continuous and extremely long spiral track of data.
From this web site:
http://money.howstuffworks.com/dvd3.htm
A DVD is composed of several layers of plastic, totaling about 1.2 millimeters thick. Each layer is created by injection molding polycarbonate plastic. This process forms a disc that has microscopic bumps arranged as a single, continuous and extremely long spiral track of data
From this web site: http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/~ca1fag/DVDs%20.htm
A DVD is composed of several layers of thin plastic, totaling about 1.2 millimeters thick. Each layer is created by injection molding polycarbonate plastic. This process forms a disc that has microscopic bumps arranged as a single, continuous and extremely long spiral track of data. Once the clear pieces of polycarbonate are formed, a thin reflective layer is sputtered onto the disc, covering the bumps. Aluminum is used behind the inner layers, but a semi-reflective gold layer is used for the outer layers, allowing the laser to focus through the outer and onto the inner layers. After all of the layers are made, each one is coated with lacquer, squeezed together and cured under infrared light.
From your post:
A DVD is composed of several layers of thin plastic, totaling about 1.2 millimeters thick. Each layer is created by injection molding polycarbonate plastic. This process forms a disc that has microscopic bumps arranged as a single, continuous and extremely long spiral track of data. Once the clear pieces of polycarbonate are formed, a thin reflective layer is sputtered onto the disc, covering the bumps. Aluminum is used behind the inner layers, but a semi-reflective gold layer is used for the outer layers, allowing the laser to focus through the outer and onto the inner layers. After all of the layers are made, each one is coated with lacquer, squeezed together and cured under infrared light.
Please in the future quote your sources, it adds credence to your post.
BTW, I'm still looking for information regarding incompatible firmware and "laser flares and dams.
_
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. June 2004 @ 10:05
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drchips
Senior Member
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13. June 2004 @ 08:09 |
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Excellent!!
Nice one Sophocles..
Gonna sit on the sidelines and watch the show,
comfy chair - check.
cold drink - check.
BFG2000, sledgehammer & chainsaw - check.
pencil & paper - check.
Let the games begin!!!
Have Fun...
Life is just more of the same:
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Moderator
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13. June 2004 @ 09:59 |
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Well, that was a very nice cut and paste job to try and lend more creedence to the fantasy terms you keep rattling on about but I'm afraid I still don't believe one bit of it.
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since different companies use different lines of coding in their firmware it can cause problems if it doesn't match.
Wow! Do you think they use different lines of code because they're ummm......uhhhh....what's the term ? Different manufacturers making different model drives? Like I said before, either the drive reads it or it doesn't. The firmware will not affect the actual data being transferred, only how and if it gets transferred. Where do you get this stuff? If you cut and paste an answer please quote the source, I'd love to read the real thing.
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some software will actually compensate for data drop outs to complete the job so even though the burn completes successfully the software may actually have passed over the data drop outs to show a successful operation.
This is the most creative excuse for poor results with crappy media I've ever seen. Bad results? Blame it on the software! I would dearly love for you to list the specific softwares that will ignore "data dropouts" in order to complete the burn.
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reading and research make for more solutions than do the group brain banging and writings of a bunch of 15 year olds
How it should have read - "reading and research make for more solutions to explain my piss poor results with crap media and I'll call everyone else a bunch of ignorant 15 years olds since they didn't appreciate my creative excuses."
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my burn rate and success rate is well over 96% so just maybe...........
My success rate is 100% so just maybe................good media is worth it!
I'm not willing to accept a certain number of coasters in order to feel like I've saved some money. Your 4% failure rate goes in the trash can, wasted money that eats into the little money you saved over better media. I lose no money when I spend a little extra for my Riteks and don't have to throw any of them away.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. June 2004 @ 10:02
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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13. June 2004 @ 15:18 |
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I think I may have gotten this part wrong, instead of looking for incompatible firmwares, and Laser flares and dams." It should have read looking for incompatible firmwares and damn laser flares.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. June 2004 @ 07:01
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drchips
Senior Member
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13. June 2004 @ 16:04 |
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< The "Doc" scuttles off to arrange for a beer tent, barbeque and stuff >
Life is just more of the same:
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321sucker
Member
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13. June 2004 @ 21:07 |
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Sophocles & drchips:
When I grow up I wanna be just like you guys.
Famous quote
I Pity the Fool....
Mr. T.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. June 2004 @ 21:10
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bloonight
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26. June 2004 @ 16:27 |
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Sorry for the delay in replying but work keeps me going sometimes......just a few words here re some of the statements made....first the one re the person getting 100% burns compared to my 96% and my garbage count.....don't forget I am paying just 75 cents per disk so my lost on a 100 spindle stack is only $3 which is what you pay for one disk so if I multiply your disk costs by the same count I have you will be spending $300 for 100 disks while I spend $75 which shows me saving $225 which I can assure you is more than just a few pennies in savings....perhaps you can buy a calculator with all the money you are saving and check you figures before you write replies.
As for the rest of the replies and responses I can see your point about the cutting and pasting but you have to realize that howstuffworks.com gets their text content from the manufacturers so whose plagerizing who here and besides the point was to allow newbies to understand the dynamics behind the workings of a disk and to make them understand that all disks are basically the same and that it is the machinery causing all the grief along with the software glitches. When people install programs, 9 times out of 10 they forget to re-boot their computer and this cause many programs to run incorrectly and to create errors where none should exist. Some software will fill in data dropout errors so as to complete a process simply by ignoring errors it reads because a re-boot wasn't done. It's not the fault of the software but the users, but I thought you realized that was what I was referring to in my last rant. Sorry to have credited you with some intelligence instead of none at all.
Also,if snyone is using stand alone DVD players made in America you are going to run into a lot of problems simply because the firmware is placed on the chip after assembly and before it is sold. This is in keeping with the strict guidelines the Taliban has placed on recorder and copying equipment sold in the States. As for backing up rentals, I agree the ethics may be somewhat skewed and the reasoning selfish but then again how many millions does the industry need. Besides the copyright laws up here read.....you cannot copy and sell or distribute the copy.....backing up is fine for personal use plus the library systems in Canada lend DVD's to people who belong to the library. The library I belong to has 2900 DVD's for lending and gets more every month. They are 2 months behind Blockbuster and you have to wait a week or two to get what you want but so what?
The whole discussion on quality and performance is moot once you get the right combo of equipment....I just hate seeing people wandering in the dark with all the different advice they are getting when they first start. The point is to make it as simple as possible but that would mean listing equipment names and brand and discussing copying software that is tried and true.....oops...that's what we're doing isn't it. Does that constitute piracy as laid down by the rules of the forums? Now what about your ethics?
Ciao (that's how it's really spelled you know)until next time......a salute to the men and women who are fighting so we can have the freedom of forums like this and for people like us enjoy the freedom we have.
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Moderator
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26. June 2004 @ 16:43 |
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This is in keeping with the strict guidelines the Taliban has placed on recorder and copying equipment sold in the States
bloonight,
Are you serious? Do you know who the taliban is?
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