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VHS Tapes to DVD
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pfh
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14. June 2005 @ 10:29 |
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Chubbers- check this thread discussion: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/176334
The advantage Ulead has over Intervideo is the Mainconcept encoder it uses as opposed to Intervideo's. If you use it for capture only then use Dvd Lab for authoring you won't run into the re-encode problems of the all-in-one solutions. Thus, your dvd creation time can be greatly reduced. It is my belief that the all-in-ones apps. re-encode during authoring for compatibility across all user bases and saves on tech support calls.
Alcoa from the above thread link is having success with Ulead after removing Intervideo.
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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chubbers
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14. June 2005 @ 11:54 |
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pfh,
thanks for the info. I learned from experience that the all-in-one software pretty much gives you a product that is less desirable to watch than the original VHS tape. This had led me to believe that I would not be successful in actually creating a DVD which looked as good as the original source tape. At least not with junk such as WinDVD,Roxio and Ulead. I was tempted to sell the stuff I have and buy a stand-alone DVD recorder before finding this site. I have a friend who owns a DVD recorder and although he cannot author his VHS to DVD conversions, they look as good or better than the original VHS tape using the stand-alone recorder. I now feel pretty confident about using GoCap to capture and am looking forward to authoring using DVD Lab. I assume you guys are getting results with the combination of GoCap/DVD Lab that are equal or superior to the original VHS tape, right?
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chubbers
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14. June 2005 @ 12:48 |
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pfh,
Forgive me if this is transparent to everyone else, but since the ConvertX is a hardware encoder, why does GoCap need to utilize any part of Ulead software or WinDVD software in order to function?
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pfh
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14. June 2005 @ 13:21 |
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GoCap serves as an interface for you to program the encoder which in turn gets used by the WIS chip on board of the ConvertX. The engineers at Plextor have developed the GoCap utility to work with the encoders supplied by the software they include with their units. If you know programming, there is an SDK for the WIS chip but alas, that is well beyond my ability! I'm what you might call a jack-of-all-master-of-none kinda guy. I'm afraid to say what my real job is!
As far as what I'm now getting dvd wise- yes, it looks as good as the vhs from whence it came. It's not as good as a commercial production dvd but I'm not expecting that from a vhs source anyways. Some people swear by the ease and quality they get from a dvd recorder and it is certainly an option. For example, you could record to disc then bring said disc to your computer and rip it back onto your drive and run it thru an authoring program to add menus then burn it back to disc. I'd just rather do it all from my computer to begin with. just depends.....personal preference. I like the fact my transfered vhs collection now has menus and chapter/scene selections.
Let me add one more thing. If I were you, I would download Dvd Shrink and Dvd Dycryptor. These 2 tools can come in handy when working with dvd's. I especially like Dvd Shrink for those captures that go beyond the 4.3gig limit of a blank dvd. If you find, after authoring your cap, that it is a little too big.......run it thru Dvd Shrink and your good to go.
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. June 2005 @ 13:36
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jddrake
Newbie
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14. June 2005 @ 15:30 |
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This is my first post on this forum so forgive me if this has been explained elsewhere.
I understand that gocap is an interface to the convertx to set the encoder parameters. But that encoder is inside the convertx. The codec inside WinDVD or Ulead shouldn't have anything to do with the codec in the convertx. Therefore I don't see why gocap should have to use anything from WinDVD or Ulead unless it is utilizing the drivers so that gocap can "talk" to the convertx. Does that seem reasonalbe?
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pfh
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15. June 2005 @ 00:45 |
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Much like a programmable graphics chip on a video card the 7007SB WIS chip needs software to make it work. There isn't really any software inside the convertX. There is actually a Phillips decoder chip inside as well. This is my understanding and what I was told by Plextor was that GoCap requires the OEM s/w.
Here's some info to ponder: http://www.wischip.com/silicon_7007sb.php
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. June 2005 @ 05:00
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jddrake
Newbie
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15. June 2005 @ 05:04 |
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FYI, this topic was pulled from the link you gave above from Alcoa. I read the same thing on Plextor's site that GoCap required the OEM and that is what has made me curious about this. It just doesn't make any sense to me unless GoCap uses the OEM interface to communicate with the convertx.
There no software in the convertx like what you normally think of as software but the WIS chip is programmed to encode to mpeg2 among other formats and that is done by software on the chip itself. you could call it firmware.
what i don't understand is if GoCap is having to use the codec in WinDVD or Ulead, then what is the point in having a hardware based encoder? The point of a hardware based encoder is that the hardware does the encoding. The WIS chip is probably a FPGA that is programmed to encode the data to the formats specified for the convertx. That is completely independent of the WinDVD or Ulead software.
Are you suggesting that GoCap is pulling the parameter options, e.g. resolution, bitrate, etc., from WinDVD or Ulead so it can then tell the WIS chip which parameters to use?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. June 2005 @ 05:09
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pfh
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15. June 2005 @ 07:38 |
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My thinking is that the 7007SB chip is programable via outside s/w cause there are no true firmare updates. Plextor.com states that firmware updates are done thru driver updates not the true firmware updates we are familiar with. GoCap is dependant on the encoder from Ulead or Intervideo not nesc. the codecs that come with those. Therefore the parameters you input for encoding are carried out by the 7007SB. Now, what you use to set those parameters is up to you- GoCap, Ulead, Intervideo, or others that have added support for the Convertx.
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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jddrake
Newbie
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15. June 2005 @ 07:49 |
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I'm confused. Then why buy a harware encoder if your software's (WinDVD or Ulead) encoder is going to dictate how it's encoded? Maybe i'm missing the point. This might be something to pose to Plextor Dirk over at divx.com.
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pfh
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15. June 2005 @ 08:36 |
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The 7007SB is the hardware. Instead of s/w manipulating your computer's cpu to do the encoding you are giving instructions to a separate chip- in this case it's a 7007SB produced by WIS and assembled onto a pcb. Thus, your encode is done before it's handed off to the cpu. A s/w encode that you are thinking of is performed by a computers cpu while at the same time it is handling the other tasks required by the system. Like I said, graphics chips operate in a similar fashion when given specific instructions by a given application. That's why they call them programmable
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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jddrake
Newbie
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15. June 2005 @ 09:06 |
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Couldn't agree with you more. I still don't think the MainConcept encoder in Ulead has anything to do with the WIS chip.
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pfh
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16. June 2005 @ 02:21 |
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Chubbers and anyone else interested FYI:
Quote from reboot's earlier post- "Minion: Good advice, with a caveat...
Not all standalone players will accept a non-standard GOP.
Not all authoring apps will accept a non-standard GOP.
I do part time work capturing 1152x864 mpeg-2 from specialized cams. This video is then used to catalog what's on the film. It needs specific frame accurate stop motion, thus I encode at a 1 frame GOP.
You can imagine the file sizes of a 4 hour video, at that aspect, and GOP, but the quality is better than DVD, at 17.6 minutes per DVDR5, and 33 minutes per dual layer."
Changing the GOP number from 15 to 12 In GoCap. When loading into Dvd Lab for authoring It reports a 1:1 aspect ratio. This aspect ratio will fail upon compiling your dvd. You need 4:3 or 16:9 for dvd compliancy and success in Dvd Lab AFAIK.
Just to give you one caveat example.
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chubbers
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16. June 2005 @ 04:42 |
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pfh,
thanks for the information. I appreciate that. Will save me from making a coaster. Thanks again; you and others have given me a lot of good advice that has been very helpful....Kevin
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chubbers
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16. June 2005 @ 06:19 |
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pfh,
Dumb question: can you change the aspect ratio indepently and circumvent the non-compliance issue?
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pfh
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16. June 2005 @ 06:46 |
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That's what I'm trying to figure out next. I think that the aspect ratio flags in the mpeg header can be changed before authoring? Or is it the headers in a dvd? .................more research.
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chubbers
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16. June 2005 @ 09:49 |
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pfh,
yes, let me know what you find out, as will I. By the way, regarding the previous reply from jddrake, we found out that the ConvertX is actually capturing in PCM audio but the OEM s/w interfacing with the ConvertX(Ulead and WinDVD) is responsible for converting it to AC3. See reply to your post entitled "GoCap question" on the Divx.com forum. The video encoding is independent of the s/w but the audio encoding IS dependent on the OEM s/w. That explains why either the OEM Ulead or the OEM WinDVD Creator software must be on your system in order to use GoCap. This revelation is a bit disappointing, as I previously held Plextor products in high regard. Oh well, it'll do the job though.
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pezzer
Junior Member
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16. June 2005 @ 11:07 |
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As i'm very new to this site, I have been trying to read through the past replies in this post to help me with my decision and they have helped me a lot.
From reading the replies it seems like the Canopus ADVC 110 is a winner, which im now thinking of buying. But I was wondering if its easy to use for a beginner? Otherwise I was thinking of buying the plextor convertx or Pinnacle studio AV/DV.
What do you guys think, all help is much appreciated.
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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16. June 2005 @ 12:26 |
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The Canopus ADVC-100/110/300 are all pretty easy to use, Easier than Most because you won"t experience the problems you will with Capture Quality and Sync problems ect...It will work with any DV Capture program and is 100% compatible with Editing programs....
Cheers
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pfh
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16. June 2005 @ 15:41 |
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The Canopus products seem to be regarded as very good. The units mentioned by minion are very popular and you find yourself in good company for support with a large user base. To my knowledge though, they are an AVI device and as such you would have the added step of encoding this to mpeg for eventual dvd creation. Results of this method can be of very good quality but I am only speaking from what others have said and done.
As of now I am personally foregoing the AVI route and capturing straight to mpeg.
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. June 2005 @ 20:54 |
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Two schools of thought.
Mpeg-2 capture devices: Produce dvd-ready mpg's. Good quality from most sources, except for possible video tearing and colour loss at the edges. This chews up HUGE amounts of bitrate during encoding, which can degrade video quality.
Fix: Use a high end SVHS player such as the JVC 6000 series.
DV-AVI capture devices: Produce extremely high quality avi's at huge file sizes. Quality degradation occurs during mpeg-2 encoding, usually because of user error, unfamiliar software, misguided instructions, poor settings in the encoder, lack of patience, and/or satisfaction with second best.
Many will say that having to re-encode is a wasted step. Others will say that the best quality can be had this way, because of the HQ source, if encoded properly.
If time is your priority, get a hardware mpeg-2 encoding device.
If quality is your priority, get the DV-AVI device, AND a GOOD standalone encoder (no I don't mean winavi or santa!!!)
That said, there are ways to get great quality mpeg-2 encodings, depending on hardware. USB devices have fewer limitations than PCI cards, but some are equally tweakable.
After just a few years of doing this stuff, I will put any one of m mpeg-2 hardware captures up against anyone's direct DV-AVI mpeg-2 encodes.
I cannot however, compare them to captures done with $10,000 worth of hardware tBC's stabilizers, SVHS machines, etc...but this is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby, and I prefer to own a nice house, car, computer, and take a vaction now and then, not purchase the ultimate VHS to DVD hardware, so I can enjoy watching overused tapes until the disk melts ;)
[/rant]
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
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pezzer
Junior Member
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18. June 2005 @ 05:37 |
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Thanks for the replies,
So can the Canopus ADVC 110 capture staight to mpeg? or DV? I just read in a PC Advisor mag that its best to capture into DV format as it is easier to edit? And appraently it is best done thorugh a PCI device. Is that the case?
Personally i'm not too sure abotu formats and stuff, I just want to edit my hi8 footage and burn them to dvd with the best possible quality. Also when you talk about time been the priority, is that the time it takes to encode a file or the time its going to make me actually sitting infront of pc and fiddling with settings? because I thought I can just leave the softare to do the encoding and come back later.
To edit the files I can get Adobe Premier pro. and encore, will that work?
Thanks again for your time,
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w3tno
Junior Member
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18. June 2005 @ 11:04 |
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I am fairly happy with the quality of my current method, but I dislike the time involved. The steps I take are as follows
1. Record the TV film onto SVHS tape - 2 1/2 hrs, unattended
2. Convert the SVHS tape to AVI file - 2 1/2 hrs, unattended
3. Cut edit the AVI version to remove commercials - 1/2 hr
4. Encode to MPG using 2-pass VBR mode - 8 hrs, unattended
5. Use authoring system to produce menuless DVD image - 1/2 hr
6. Burn DVD at 16x - 1/2 hr
7. Produce DVD label 1 hr
I am considering the purchase of a JVC DR-MH30S DVD recorder. This should eliminate the time needed for steps 2, 4, and 5, and it looks like I could remove my SVHS recorder and my current DVD player.
I welcome any responses to this posting.
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pfh
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18. June 2005 @ 11:18 |
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You could always get an mpeg capture card that also has a tuner for grabbing tv. Record mpeg straight to HD- time depends on film length.
Edit with Womble- 10-20 minutes, no re-encode!
Author in favorite app.- 20 minutes.
Burn @ 4x- only takes me ~12 minutes.
The Canopus 110 does not do mpeg.
AMD 2500+,1gig Corsair,ATI 9800pro,NEC 2510 DVDr/w,TDK CDRW,ConvertX M402U,Womble,DVDLab,GoCap,Intervideo OEM junk,DVDD,DVDShrink,V-Dub,120 gigs HD space(several partitions)WinXP Home, JVC S9911U vcr, Sima Color Corrector Pro.
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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18. June 2005 @ 12:52 |
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Yes you can use the ADVC-100 to capture Directly to Mpeg-2 but you would have to use a Software Mpeg Capture Program with the ADVC-100 which totally defeats the purpose of Haveing a Hardware DV Encoder Device....
When Useing CCE to encode to Mpeg-2 I can encode a 2 hour movie to Mpeg-2 in about an hour so it doesn"t nescessarilly have to be a 8 or 10 hour encodeing Step.....
Cheers
P-4 2.6ghz (Overclocked to 3.2ghz)
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w3tno
Junior Member
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18. June 2005 @ 13:00 |
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Minion, good suggestion. What I didn't mention is that during my encode I am doing a color correction with a simple gamma of +100 to brighten things up, and I am also normalizing the audio. Would CCE allow me to do that also? (My encoder is TMPGEnc XPress)
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