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Where are DVD Shrink 3.2 updates at?
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 11:41 |
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OK so I need to update my DVD Shrink 3.2...where can I go to update it at?
Thanks
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Advertisement
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 11:56 |
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You have the latest - Shrinks last update was in 2004. It's no longer updated.
To handle the newer copy protection rip w/ dvdfab hd decrypter 1st then open those files in Shrink.
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 12:51 |
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I was wondering though, I never had any problems until today. I go to burn Wild Hogs and it wont start..it says failed to start burn process.
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 14:02 |
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Ah ok - using Nero to burn?
Can you post the log for us to take a peek at? Just be sure to edit out the serial # - they begin w/ 1A, 1C or 5C.
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 14:08 |
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yeah no problem, where do i find the log at?
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 14:19 |
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yeah ive got nero to burn but i go through dvd shrink...epic movie just did the same thing. so something is wrong with the program now...hmmm
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 14:29 |
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Windows XP 5.1
IA32
WinAspi: -
ahead WinASPI: File 'C:\Program Files\Nero\Nero 7\Core\Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=2.0.1.74, size=169792 bytes, created 3/14/2007 12:43:16 PM
NT-SPTI used
Nero API version: 7.9.6.0
Using interface version: 6.3.1.4
Installed in: C:\Program Files\Nero\Nero 7\Core\
Application: ahead\Nero - Burning Rom
Internal Version: 7, 9, 6, 0
Recorder: Version: 2.F6 - HA 1 TA 2 - 7.9.6.0
Adapter driver: HA 1
Drive buffer : 2048kB
Bus Type : set to ATAPI (3) -> ATAPI, detected: ?
=== Scsi-Device-Map ===
CdRomPeripheral : LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-4832K atapi Port 2 ID 0 DMA: Off
DiskPeripheral : SAMSUNG SP0802N atapi Port 3 ID 0 DMA: On
=== CDRom-Device-Map ===
LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-4832K E: CdRom0
MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9 J: CdRom2
=======================
AutoRun : 1
Excluded drive IDs:
WriteBufferSize: 66060288 (0) Byte
BUFE : 0
Physical memory : 447MB (458224kB)
Free physical memory: 132MB (136036kB)
Memory in use : 70 %
Uncached PFiles: 0x0
Use Inquiry : 1
Global Bus Type: default (0)
Check supported media : Disabled (0)
24.8.2007
NeroAPI
5:17:23 PM #1 Phase 112 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
DVD-Video files reallocation started
5:17:23 PM #2 Phase 114 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
DVD-Video files reallocation completed (no file modified)
5:17:23 PM #3 Phase 111 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
DVD-Video files sorted
5:17:24 PM #4 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 424
LockMCN - completed sucessfully for IOCTL_STORAGE_MCN_CONTROL
5:17:25 PM #5 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 838
DRM: StartDrmRecording(RealRec:1, ImageRec:0, Copies:1)
DRM: Beginning burn process.
5:17:25 PM #6 ISO9660GEN -11 File Geniso.cpp, Line 3343
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
5:17:26 PM #7 ISO9660GEN -11 File Geniso.cpp, Line 3343
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
5:17:26 PM #8 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 3508
Turn on Disc-At-Once, using DVD media
5:17:59 PM #9 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 307
Last possible write address on media: 2298495 (510:46.45, 4489MB)
Last address to be written: 2148303 (477:24.03, 4195MB)
5:17:59 PM #10 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 319
Write in overburning mode: NO
5:17:59 PM #11 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 2964
Recorder: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9, Media type: DVD-R
Disc Manufacturer: SONY16 - D1
Disc Application Code: 64, Disc Physical Code: 193
5:17:59 PM #12 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 493
>>> Protocol of DlgWaitCD activities: <<<
=========================================
Insert empty disc to write to.
(Medium in drive: unknown. Medium required by compilation: DVD R/RW, DVD+R DL.)
5:17:59 PM #13 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 793
Setup items (after recorder preparation)
0: TRM_DATA_MODE1 ()
2 indices, index0 (150) not provided
original disc pos #0 + 2148304 (2148304) = #2148304/477:24.4
relocatable, disc pos for caching/writing not required/ required
-> TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048, config 0, wanted index0 0 blocks, length 2148304 blocks [J: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9]
--------------------------------------------------------------
5:17:59 PM #14 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 995
Prepare [J: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9] for write in CUE-sheet-DAO
DAO infos:
==========
MCN: ""
TOCType: 0x00; Session Closed, disc fixated
Tracks 1 to 1: Idx 0 Idx 1 Next Trk
1: TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048/0x00, FilePos 0 0 4399726592, ISRC ""
DAO layout:
===========
___Start_|____Track_|_Idx_|_CtrlAdr_|_____Size_|______NWA_|_RecDep__________
0 | lead-in | 0 | 0x41 | 0 | 0 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 0 | 0x41 | 0 | 0 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 1 | 0x41 | 2148304 | 0 | 0x00
2148304 | lead-out | 1 | 0x41 | 0 | 0 | 0x00
5:17:59 PM #15 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 215
SPTILockVolume - completed successfully for FSCTL_LOCK_VOLUME
5:17:59 PM #16 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4294
Caching options: cache CDRom or Network-No, small files-Yes (<32KB)
5:17:59 PM #17 Phase 24 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Caching of files started
5:17:59 PM #18 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4413
Cache writing successful.
5:17:59 PM #19 Phase 25 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Caching of files completed
5:17:59 PM #20 Phase 36 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Burn process started at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
5:17:59 PM #21 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 2721
Verifying disc position of item 0 (relocatable, disc pos, no patch infos, orig at #0): write at #0
5:17:59 PM #22 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 3225
Recording mode: Sequential Recording Mode
5:17:59 PM #23 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 3381
Start write address at LBA 0
DVD high compatibility mode: Yes
5:17:59 PM #24 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 9869
---- Disc Structure: Physical Format Information (00h) ----
Media Type: 0, Layer: 0, Address: 0 (0 h), AGID: 0; Length: 2050
Book Type: DVD-R (2), Part Version: 2.0x (5), Extended Part Version: 2.1 (33)
Disc Size: 120 mm, Maximum Rate: (F h)
Number of Layers: 1, Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP), Layer Type: recordable
Linear Density: 0,267 um/bit, Track Density: 0,74 um/track
Starting Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 30000 h (DVD-ROM, DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW)
End Sector Number in Layer 0: 0 h (LBN: FFFD0000 h, 4193920 MB)
Data in Burst Cutting Area (BCA) does not exist
Revision number of maximum recording speed: 6.0
Revision number of minimum recording speed: -
Revision number table of recording speed: 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 - -
Class: 0
Start sector number of the current Border-Out: 2FE10 h
Start sector number of the next Border-In: 2FFA0 h
Media Specific [16..63]:
00 60 00 10 20 30 40 50 - 00 00 00 21 00 00 00 00 .`...0@P...!....
00 02 FE 10 00 02 FF A0 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
5:17:59 PM #25 SPTI -1046 File SCSIPassThrough.cpp, Line 179
CdRom2: SCSIStatus(x02) WinError(0) NeroError(-1046)
Sense Key: 0x05 (KEY_ILLEGAL_REQUEST)
Sense Code: 0x30
Sense Qual: 0x05
CDB Data: 0x53 00 00 00 00 00 20 C7 D0 00 00 00
Sense Area: 0x70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 30 05
5:17:59 PM #26 CDR -1046 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1752
Illegal disc
J: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9
5:17:59 PM #27 TRANSFER -27 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1752
Could not perform start of Disc-at-once
5:17:59 PM #28 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 269
Pipe memory size 66059200
5:17:59 PM #29 Phase 38 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Burn process failed at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
5:17:59 PM #30 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 863
DRM: DRM burn session terminated.
5:17:59 PM #31 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 892
DRM: Closing entire DRM handling. Bye.
5:17:59 PM #32 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 261
SPTIDismountVolume - completed successfully for FSCTL_DISMOUNT_VOLUME
5:18:02 PM #33 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 11185
DriveLocker: UnLockVolume completed
5:18:02 PM #34 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 424
UnLockMCN - completed sucessfully for IOCTL_STORAGE_MCN_CONTROL
Existing drivers:
File 'Drivers\CDRALW2K.SYS': Ver=8.0.0.212 , size=2560 bytes, created 3/27/2007 2:55:32 AM
File 'Drivers\PXHELP20.SYS': Ver=3.00.56a, size=43528 bytes, created 3/7/2007 6:51:00 PM (Prassi/Veritas driver for win 2K)
Registry Keys:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinLogon\AllocateCDROMs : 0 (Security Option)
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 14:47 |
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Ok you're getting an illegal disc error. This is usually caused by the media you're using not being supported by the firmware of the drive.
Sony is good stuff but your drive can use a firmware update.
Here's the latest - 2.FA
CdRomPeripheral : LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-4832K atapi Port 2 ID 0 DMA: Off
Probably not playing into this error but turn DMA back on for the LiteOn. Here's a guide
File 'Drivers\CDRALW2K.SYS'
Roxio and Nero don't always play well so if the above fails uninstall Roxio and run the zap tool
Give that a go and let us know.
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:11 |
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wow im way lost now....lol
all i found was program that I DL'd and the icon was a barbell looking thing...file name winbtype...was supposed to be the 2fa firmware...
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:15 |
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ok so I checked my DMA and it was already on
back to the firmware..im lost..lol
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:19 |
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ok can I instant message you, it would be easier...
I went back to check the DMA thing again...its still set as DMA but the in the current transfer mode it says Not Applicable...
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 15:21 |
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Ok for the firmware did you click on the hyperlink of 2.FA? You should be dl'ing an exe file. This one will have a lightning bolt and a pic of a drive.
Then have no discs in the drive, check the power on and double click on the exe. Run it to update it - you may have to pick the drive from the dropdown. Takes like a minute or 2. Reboot and the firmware should be updated.
edit to add - not applicable is ok - just means no drive attached to this connection. Check all the ide channels in device manager.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. August 2007 @ 15:23
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:22 |
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:27 |
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ok im retarded..i just dl'd the lightning bolt drive...now what
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 15:31 |
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Ok just click on 2.FA - see pic
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 15:34 |
Link to this message
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Ok good - see my post above on running the exe - very easy.
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:37 |
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ok so I ran it and my 2fa is the current and i shut down...now what? lol
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 15:43 |
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Now let's turn the pc back on and try again :)
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:44 |
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lol well I turned it on!
Ill go try to burn it and Ill brb
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 15:46 |
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Ok cool :)
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 15:55 |
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again - GRRRRRRRRRRR
Windows XP 5.1
IA32
WinAspi: -
ahead WinASPI: File 'C:\Program Files\Nero\Nero 7\Core\Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=2.0.1.74, size=169792 bytes, created 3/14/2007 12:43:16 PM
NT-SPTI used
Nero API version: 7.9.6.0
Using interface version: 6.3.1.4
Installed in: C:\Program Files\Nero\Nero 7\Core\
Application: ahead\Nero - Burning Rom
Internal Version: 7, 9, 6, 0
Recorder: Version: 2.FA - HA 1 TA 3 - 7.9.6.0
Adapter driver: HA 1
Drive buffer : 2048kB
Bus Type : set to ATAPI (3) -> ATAPI, detected: ?
=== Scsi-Device-Map ===
CdRomPeripheral : LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-4832K atapi Port 2 ID 0 DMA: Off
DiskPeripheral : SAMSUNG SP0802N atapi Port 3 ID 0 DMA: On
=== CDRom-Device-Map ===
LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-4832K E: CdRom0
MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9 F: CdRom3
=======================
AutoRun : 1
Excluded drive IDs:
WriteBufferSize: 66060288 (0) Byte
BUFE : 0
Physical memory : 447MB (458224kB)
Free physical memory: 160MB (164088kB)
Memory in use : 64 %
Uncached PFiles: 0x0
Use Inquiry : 1
Global Bus Type: default (0)
Check supported media : Disabled (0)
24.8.2007
NeroAPI
6:54:31 PM #1 Phase 112 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
DVD-Video files reallocation started
6:54:33 PM #2 Phase 114 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
DVD-Video files reallocation completed (no file modified)
6:54:33 PM #3 Phase 111 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
DVD-Video files sorted
6:54:33 PM #4 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 424
LockMCN - completed sucessfully for IOCTL_STORAGE_MCN_CONTROL
6:54:34 PM #5 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 838
DRM: StartDrmRecording(RealRec:1, ImageRec:0, Copies:1)
DRM: Beginning burn process.
6:54:34 PM #6 ISO9660GEN -11 File Geniso.cpp, Line 3343
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
6:54:35 PM #7 ISO9660GEN -11 File Geniso.cpp, Line 3343
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
6:54:35 PM #8 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 3508
Turn on Disc-At-Once, using DVD media
6:55:12 PM #9 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 307
Last possible write address on media: 2298495 (510:46.45, 4489MB)
Last address to be written: 1996319 (443:37.44, 3899MB)
6:55:12 PM #10 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 319
Write in overburning mode: NO
6:55:12 PM #11 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 2964
Recorder: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9, Media type: DVD-R
Disc Manufacturer: SONY16 - D1
Disc Application Code: 64, Disc Physical Code: 193
6:55:12 PM #12 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 493
>>> Protocol of DlgWaitCD activities: <<<
=========================================
Insert empty disc to write to.
(Medium in drive: unknown. Medium required by compilation: DVD R/RW, DVD+R DL.)
6:55:12 PM #13 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 793
Setup items (after recorder preparation)
0: TRM_DATA_MODE1 ()
2 indices, index0 (150) not provided
original disc pos #0 + 1996320 (1996320) = #1996320/443:37.45
relocatable, disc pos for caching/writing not required/ required
-> TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048, config 0, wanted index0 0 blocks, length 1996320 blocks [F: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9]
--------------------------------------------------------------
6:55:12 PM #14 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 995
Prepare [F: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9] for write in CUE-sheet-DAO
DAO infos:
==========
MCN: ""
TOCType: 0x00; Session Closed, disc fixated
Tracks 1 to 1: Idx 0 Idx 1 Next Trk
1: TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048/0x00, FilePos 0 0 4088463360, ISRC ""
DAO layout:
===========
___Start_|____Track_|_Idx_|_CtrlAdr_|_____Size_|______NWA_|_RecDep__________
0 | lead-in | 0 | 0x41 | 0 | 0 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 0 | 0x41 | 0 | 0 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 1 | 0x41 | 1996320 | 0 | 0x00
1996320 | lead-out | 1 | 0x41 | 0 | 0 | 0x00
6:55:12 PM #15 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 215
SPTILockVolume - completed successfully for FSCTL_LOCK_VOLUME
6:55:12 PM #16 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4294
Caching options: cache CDRom or Network-No, small files-Yes (<32KB)
6:55:12 PM #17 Phase 24 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Caching of files started
6:55:12 PM #18 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4413
Cache writing successful.
6:55:12 PM #19 Phase 25 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Caching of files completed
6:55:12 PM #20 Phase 36 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Burn process started at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
6:55:12 PM #21 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 2721
Verifying disc position of item 0 (relocatable, disc pos, no patch infos, orig at #0): write at #0
6:55:12 PM #22 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 3225
Recording mode: Sequential Recording Mode
6:55:12 PM #23 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 3381
Start write address at LBA 0
DVD high compatibility mode: Yes
6:55:12 PM #24 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 9869
---- Disc Structure: Physical Format Information (00h) ----
Media Type: 0, Layer: 0, Address: 0 (0 h), AGID: 0; Length: 2050
Book Type: DVD-R (2), Part Version: 2.0x (5), Extended Part Version: 2.1 (33)
Disc Size: 120 mm, Maximum Rate: (F h)
Number of Layers: 1, Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP), Layer Type: recordable
Linear Density: 0,267 um/bit, Track Density: 0,74 um/track
Starting Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 30000 h (DVD-ROM, DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW)
End Sector Number in Layer 0: 0 h (LBN: FFFD0000 h, 4193920 MB)
Data in Burst Cutting Area (BCA) does not exist
Revision number of maximum recording speed: 6.0
Revision number of minimum recording speed: -
Revision number table of recording speed: 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 - -
Class: 0
Start sector number of the current Border-Out: 2FE10 h
Start sector number of the next Border-In: 2FFA0 h
Media Specific [16..63]:
00 60 00 10 20 30 40 50 - 00 00 00 21 00 00 00 00 .`...0@P...!....
00 02 FE 10 00 02 FF A0 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
6:55:12 PM #25 SPTI -1046 File SCSIPassThrough.cpp, Line 179
CdRom3: SCSIStatus(x02) WinError(0) NeroError(-1046)
Sense Key: 0x05 (KEY_ILLEGAL_REQUEST)
Sense Code: 0x30
Sense Qual: 0x05
CDB Data: 0x53 00 00 00 00 00 1E 76 20 00 00 00
Sense Area: 0x70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 30 05
6:55:12 PM #26 CDR -1046 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1752
Illegal disc
F: MAD DOG MD-16XDVD9
6:55:12 PM #27 TRANSFER -27 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1752
Could not perform start of Disc-at-once
6:55:12 PM #28 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 269
Pipe memory size 66059200
6:55:12 PM #29 Phase 38 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 285
Burn process failed at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
6:55:12 PM #30 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 863
DRM: DRM burn session terminated.
6:55:12 PM #31 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 892
DRM: Closing entire DRM handling. Bye.
6:55:12 PM #32 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 261
SPTIDismountVolume - completed successfully for FSCTL_DISMOUNT_VOLUME
6:55:14 PM #33 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 11185
DriveLocker: UnLockVolume completed
6:55:14 PM #34 Text 0 File SCSIPTICommands.cpp, Line 424
UnLockMCN - completed sucessfully for IOCTL_STORAGE_MCN_CONTROL
Existing drivers:
File 'Drivers\CDRALW2K.SYS': Ver=8.0.0.212 , size=2560 bytes, created 3/27/2007 2:55:32 AM
File 'Drivers\PXHELP20.SYS': Ver=3.00.56a, size=43528 bytes, created 3/7/2007 6:51:00 PM (Prassi/Veritas driver for win 2K)
Registry Keys:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinLogon\AllocateCDROMs : 0 (Security Option)
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 16:13 |
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Ugh is right.
Try taking it down to 4x speed.
Ok uninstall Roxio and run the zap tool (see post above).
Is this a new spindle of discs - have any problems with them before?
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 16:16 |
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First, I dont know how to take the speed down to 4.
Second, yeah Ive never bought Sony before, they were on sale..never buy them again! UGH
Third, Ill try to Roxio thing I suppose..just seems like all this is a headache...Maybe Ill just dump these disks and buy the old ones I was using..GRRR
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Moderator
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24. August 2007 @ 16:22 |
Link to this message
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Buying different discs is probably the best option. Sony's are usually good - I've burned quite a few of them but looks like they're not compatible with your drive even with the updated firmware.
Ones to look for Verbatim or made in Japan only Fuji or Maxell.
In Shrink when you click back up click on the burn settings tab and you can change it there.
In Nero Express (since these movies are already are your hard drive no need to use Shrink again) use the dvd-video option to add the video_ts folder. In the last screen on the left you'll see an arrow like looking thing. Click on that and change the burn speed.
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abon
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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24. August 2007 @ 16:22 |
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Well I did a search for Roxio and it came up with nothing...hmm any ideas?
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