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World Opinion
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Prisoner
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23. June 2004 @ 06:58 |
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Brobear, you miss interpret. I am a Canadian and brought Canada in to my rant so the it wasn`t just USA bashing. The point I was tring to make was the at USA is not prefect, and has just as many wars as other countries but they aren`t called wars. The south still fights the north, the black churches fight the white churches (all thouse burnings) the poor fight the rich. And then there are murders and street violence. For Canada, we have Native americans fighting whites, we have Quebec dispute, we have the whole coutry hates people from Toronto (the wars are here too). So if someone is going to the high road and say USA is perfect and the rest of the world are little violent children. Then I will have to say they are wrong. Like lets not even start on the whole killing everyone thing. but the whole reason for that action commented was wrong!!
Also technically China doesn`t have a police force, but talking to people in my lab from china. They do have an unofficial one. But the argument on people density i think is wrong as Canada is freaking huge. Like really freaking huge and We have the population (total) as Tokyo its almost the same number. So I would say the small island of Japan which is not nearly as internally violent, has much higher population density then USA and Canada. Also look at India, has the highest population density in the world.
Our problem is that we only get the what the media wants us to get. Humans get into wars and fight, its what we do. That was my main point. No country is better than any other.
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Praetor
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23. June 2004 @ 10:24 |
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Quote:
Also technically China doesn`t have a police force
Who mentioned a Chinese police force????
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Prisoner
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23. June 2004 @ 10:43 |
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brobear said he didn`t know of any country without a police force. I thought China was without, but people from china here were saying that they unoffically do.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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Buik
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23. June 2004 @ 18:21 |
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This a war between cultures. Sunni vs Shi. Muslims vs Jews. Muslims vs Christians. Muslims vs anyone who does not believe in their vison of god. Been going on now for about 1400 years. Islam is not a peaceful religion. Islam is still devoted to spreading itself over the entire world.
If Islam were a peacful religion then you might see more outrage at the slaughter of innocents. The outrage is not there. That is what is starting to "fire up" some people. The utter lack of outrage & condemnation for the brutal beheadings these past few weeks from Islamic religious leaders, and their devotees, is deafening. I can understand that to a degree. Disagree with a radical cleric and you're marked for death. Say something publically that is complimentary about the USA and you are marked for death by terrorists.
If we wanted Iraqi oil, it would have been cheaper to just buy it. If we wanted to convert them to Christianity, well, there would be fewer Mosques standing and fewer Imam's running around trying to kill Coalition soldiers and innocent civillians. If their schools taught basic education instead of religous fanatacism things would not have come to this.
As for what many think of the USA? I don't care anymore. I wasn't alive the last time another country "saved our bacon" or sent us "foreign aid". If the USA is so bad, why do so many risk a small fortune (in their home country), and even death, to get here. I would hope that it is more than our social programs.
TC
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Prisoner
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24. June 2004 @ 10:02 |
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Been going on now for about 1400 years. Islam is not a peaceful religion. Islam is still devoted to spreading itself over the entire world.
I think you miss spelled Catholic there, I haven't seen it spelled that way before.
Islam = terrorist as Christian = ?
I know you know the answer, Oh yes you have it KKK!
Not ever member of a religion equals everone other member of that religion, and that goes for all regions. Including the religion of Prisoner. :P
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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brobear
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24. June 2004 @ 15:12 |
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Prisoner,
If the Chinese military isn't the largest police force in the world, I'll eat my hat. I think we pretty much said the same thing, everyone and their country has their problems. Wasn't sure where you were coming from. My country isn't perfect, none are, but I still love the country. With everything going on in the world and a lot of US bashing, and old allies falling by the wayside, a little paranoia is in order.
Praetor,
Only know of Islam what I picked up in college studies and some reading. One can't really understand a religion unless they live it. That's why I don't condemn people according to religion. Actions and social doctrines are another situation though. Watch CNN and Fox News, take an aspirin, and you still have a headache. News services normally only tell bad news, so one is usually lead to believe the worst if they only pay attention to the news. Then you have a left and right point of view. News is definitely not unbiased.
The world condition is a mess and I doubt it will be resolved in our lifetime. Similar problems have been going on for centuries. There is no need to go into world history. Anyone with a decent education should know wars of the past. Seems on the government level, no one seems to learn from history. Just hope things can be resolved to the point where everyone isn't trying to off everyone else.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. June 2004 @ 10:36
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Buik
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24. June 2004 @ 17:53 |
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What? Everyone get along with each other? There are people who can't get along with theirself when they are the only one in the room.
All these posts have re-inforced what I was taught in USAF Dental assisting classes. People are stressed out having to go the dentist as it is. "Do not discuss politics or religion" with the patient.
TC
PAX
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brobear
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24. June 2004 @ 18:40 |
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There goes world opinion.
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Prisoner
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25. June 2004 @ 09:49 |
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Sorry I could stop laughing with the
Can`t we all just get along.
thing. Bet him so more, heee hee.
Sorry, I really do know that was uncalled for.
But aren`t we entitled to our opinion`s and geting a world perspective is really cool.
I am not a number
I am a Free Man
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Moderator
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25. June 2004 @ 12:25 |
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I think if the world smoked a bowl every morning we wouldn't have any problems (except getting enough people to man the Dorito factories). Who's got time to fight when you're mellowed out and the Simpson's are on?
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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brobear
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25. June 2004 @ 14:10 |
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Interesting solution, only there is a problem. Believe it or not, herb smoking varies by culture. Whereas some folks mellow out, others become hostile. So once again, no universal cure. Though it would work in my neighborhood. Now if they would only make it legal and get the price down. I want the Doritos concession.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. June 2004 @ 14:11
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Buik
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25. June 2004 @ 18:10 |
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Brobear, how true about the culture connection. I can't verify it, but a few decades ago I heard or read that "assasins" was derived from "Hashishans". Probably involved Hookahs also.
How about debating teams?
TC
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brobear
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25. June 2004 @ 18:56 |
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Debating teams? Man, you really want a war.
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Praetor
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25. June 2004 @ 19:50 |
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Quote:
w about debating teams?
I did that in highschool! :) (phew! i wasnt the only one hehe)
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DarkmanX
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26. June 2004 @ 14:05 |
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I'm glad cooler heads have prevailed on this topic! I started this thread to get a "world Opinion" of what's going on in Iraq and how other citizens of the world viewed us. I knew I would not agree with a lot of the opinions, but thats what they are, opinions, like assholes, everyone has one, and should have the right to be heard.
The deadline is fastly approaching and I still haven't seen enough to believe that once we leave, it won't get worst there. Their so called police forces run at any sign of trouble and don't seem to have any respect from the population, other than being puppets of the U.S. forces. There has been mention of individuals that have died in this war and I want their deaths to mean something, if we relinquish control, leave and the country gets taken over by neighboring fanatics, what would the sacafices have meant? There still has been very few Iraqi citizens providing intelligence of where these terrorists are hidihng and who is supplying them! Shouldn't they want to help by now? In the beginning I understood that they did not trust that the U.S. would stay the course, but it's been over a year, come on!!!
As far as debating, that would be fun. I also was on a debate team in Highschool. It was called Student Congress and it was based on the U.S. congress. Students would author bills for one of three committees; Public Affairs, Foreign Affairs, and Economics). The different chambers would vote on what bills they wanted to address and the author would speak on why his/her bill should be passed. A moderator would select individuals who wanted to support the bill and then give opponents a chance to refute the passing of the bill. There would then be a vote at the end of the session to see if the bill passed.
I wanted to see if I could write a long message seeing as how there were a few novels in this thread! Don't think I could compete in that arena though.
Silent Assasin |
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Buik
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26. June 2004 @ 15:04 |
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DarkmanX.
Yes, the turn over of power is fast approaching in Iraq. Been almost a year & a half since we ousted the Baathist's and took control of the country. Yes, there is chaos in some parts. I acknowledge that argument.
Let me ask this, How long was it before we allowed the Germans & Japanese to resume control over their own contries? Aren't US forces still in those two nations. Allowed to remain there by the governments of those two countries?
As for the violence that has continued since May of last year~, Weren't there incidents of violence in Germany & Japan after we occupied them?
The only land we have asked for, from other countries, in the last 100 years or so, is enough to bury our dead on. Those that died on "their" land to free them from tyrany and oppession. So yes, Americans get a "case of the ass" when we help someone out & then get told to go take a flying ******, after we have finished the job.
If anyone wants to continue this thread and have it be a meaningful one, let us debate it in a civilized manner.
TC
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Praetor
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26. June 2004 @ 16:31 |
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If anyone wants to continue this thread and have it be a meaningful one, let us debate it in a civilized manner.
Indeed :)
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DarkmanX
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27. June 2004 @ 09:38 |
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Well spoken! As for your comparisons to previous conflicts, there is no comparison,
Quote:
Weren't there incidents of violence in Germany & Japan after we occupied them?
to what is happening now. Albeit, we did not have news media coverage like today, but these people (if you want to call them people0 have more civilians that they are going to execute for no justification!
Quote:
enough to bury our dead on. Those that died on "their" land to free them from tyrany and oppession. So yes, Americans get a "case of the ass" when we help someone out & then get told to go take a flying ******, after we have finished the job.
But what have we finished? If we leave soon and allow other terrorists organizations to infiltrate and take over, what good have we done? What will it mean to the families that lost loved ones in search of freeing a country? If we don't stay the course, does their sacrifices mean anything?
_
Silent Assasin
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2004 @ 09:40
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brobear
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28. June 2004 @ 00:40 |
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No one has seriously mentioned the leaving aspect yet. Most seem to feel the allied forces will be present for years to come in Iraq. The transition of power has been gradually coming on line. This big transfer coming up means the interim government is going to have more say of what is happening in their country. Interestingly enough, from what I have observed, they will not have final veto power over military operations of the allied forces.
As for puppets, the so called puppets are dying for their beliefs. NATO appears to be coming online to train and supply the new forces. If done to their full capabilities (NATO's), this could be a puppet force with some serious clout.
The situation in Iraq is at a crossroads. It is going to be a wait and see situation for some time to come.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. June 2004 @ 00:41
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DarkmanX
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28. June 2004 @ 18:06 |
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Well, no one saw this coming! The early turn over of power to the Iraqi government. Now they are going to have to stand up for what they want.
The ? is that the muslim religion is going to play a major role in their society and yet for all of the freedoms we have invisioned for the Iraqis;especially the women, how are they going to accept women as equals or at least individuals! I'm no expert in the doctrine of their religion, but I have spent time in the middle east and women are treated worst them family pets. They can't look men in the eye and they must be subservient at all times and if they are not with a man, they must enter businesses in different entrances (usually the backdoor).
The reason I bring this up is that I have seen where schools were built and women were getting educated and learning to read, which was not allowed previously. Now how do they return back to the way it use to be?
Silent Assasin
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. June 2004 @ 18:06
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Buik
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28. June 2004 @ 20:28 |
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Not surprised it happened this way. Glad it did. Maybe it will knock the terrorists off their game and spare some lives.
Correct me if I am wrong, Aren't some of the members of the interim governing coucil women? That, to me would indicate that they indeed received an education. Whether in Iraq or elsewhere.
Religion will still play a part in their political arena. As well it should. Hopefully it will not be a dominating factor. That they are religious can be a good thing. Until you get the majority of Iraqi's a solid education, religious leaders will play a role. Sooner, better than later. Al Sistani is a rational man to a degree. Al Sadr is not. Al Sadr's father was killed by Hussein. And he wants to take issue with the US? For pete's sake, we took out his fathers killer.
I am all for educating every person regardless of sex.
Good god/allah/yaweh..... , how would you like to live in a tent with a harem whose menstrual cycles have synchronized? And they all have PMS?
TC
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Deeman
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13. July 2004 @ 09:53 |
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I feel like my head is going to explode after reading this thread. I do have to agree with darkmanx for the most part.
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brobear
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13. July 2004 @ 10:32 |
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Deeman,
Don't take the philosophical release of the residents to heart or head. Hopefully, you have your own point of view by this late date. Just view the words as letting the world know how we feel. Different people, and therefore different views. Though, there is a general consensus that nuking folks is considered a bad policy.
There are a lot of things wrong in the world and a lot of injustices. Just watch the news and pay attention, if you want a migraine. The Middle East has been embroiled in strife for centuries. Much longer than some countries have existed.
If everyone (governments included) would treat all (child, woman, and man) as they want to be treated, there would be far fewer problems. It'll never happen, but what if. The problem is that everyone wants to protect their power base and garner more power, one way or another. Even the benevolent powers. Have a good day.
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Deeman
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13. July 2004 @ 11:26 |
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I do realize that there are many opinions in the world such as the ones stated above. It bothers me that a lot of the opinions formed from Europeans about the U.S. are formed from watching the biased press in their own countries. How many stories of the good things that are happening in iraq are aired in Europe such as the new schools and court system being built that protect peoples rights. I'll bet none! At least my president doesn't comb his hair with a porkchop like the president of france! Ha, take that one!
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brobear
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13. July 2004 @ 12:52 |
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And what good did the insult do, besides venting some frustration about US/France relations? Didn't make any more friends there internationally. Most of the people in the UK realize the bias of the press, or should. The US press isn't innocent either. Bad news sells, good news is overlooked. Ask yourself which country has been the US's most staunch ally, before and during the current crisis.
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