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DVDrebuilder CCE, with DVDremake and Other Tools for Beginners
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happyuser
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3. August 2004 @ 14:49 |
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When I said "interlaced=true" you have to understand that this means ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true). And this line, according to DVD-Rebuilder document, will result in some form of color shifting. We all know that, the line ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) ( or for short "interlaced=true" ) be used when we encode ( a particular segment ) as interlaced ( alternate_scan=true ).
When I said, "alternate=true", you have to understand that CCE will encode ( a particular segment ) as interlaced: alternate_scan=true in file.ecl is more correct.
According to AviSynth and CCE documentation, when we encode ( a particular segment ) as interlaced, we have to set alternate=true ( alternate_scan=true ) and in AviSynth script file ( the AVS ), we have to use ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true).
Again, in CCE, if we use alternate_scan=true ( alternate_scan=true ), we have to use ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) in your AVS.
What is the best Deinterlacers available out there? Obviously the FieldDeinterlacer is not on this list, even when use with (blend=false).
So what else available right away? Well, the SmoothDeinterlacer that is.
But with this SmoothDeinterlacer, you will have to use it correctly: the right settings will get you the best deinterlacing result.
The ISSUE of DEINTERLACING arises when mentioning DVD-Rebuilder. And the followings are the reason:
1. It seems like, everything will be encoded at 23.976 fps. So here what I think are happening:
a. When Source ( original piece of video ) is Film ( Progressive content that we can use "Forced Film" feature on ), DVD-Rebuilder seems to treat this well: it already used Forced Film feature and now encoding as progressive: indication is in when we check the REBUILDER.ECL to see that progressive=1 ( progressive=true ).
b. When source is content that need IVTCed, DVD-Rebuilder treats this the same way it treats Film content above: using Forced Film feature and encoding as Progressive ( progressive=true: progressive=1 ). Personally, I would recommend using the SmartDeinterlacer for AviSynth in this case in addition to what DVD-Rebuilder had already done for us: but use deinterlacing setting of low value: to deinterlace less.
c. When source is pure interlaced, if we enable " Deinterlace with Decomb" function, DVD-REbuilder will deinterlace with the line "FieldDeinterlace(blend=false). If we do not enable this Deinterlace with Decomb" function, and if we use "Disable Interlaced" ( will result in ConvertToYUY2() ), DVD-Rebuilder will encode this pure interlaced source as Progressive ( progressive=1, alternate_scan=0 ) without deinterlacing it. Despite DVD-Rebuilder author said about, everything ( encoded at 23.976 will be "FLAGGED" back to its original source characteristics: interlaced source will be "flagged" back to interlaced state, despite this, what DVD-Rebuilder treats pure interlaced source this way is no good: interlaced source content being encoded as Progressive without DEINTERLACING properly.
So, for those pure interlaced source: for these pure interlaced segments, we can just encode them as interlaced ( alternate_scan=1, and ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) ); or we can Deinterlace them with SmoothDeinterlacer and encode them as Progressive ( progressive=1: by using "Disable Interlaced" function for all VTS_sets ).
The incentives to use a good Deinterlacer with DVD-Rebuilder is MANDATORY: a good Deinterlacer has to be used with DVD-Rebuilder.
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64026402
Senior Member
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3. August 2004 @ 17:01 |
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We need to rename the thread to Happyusers guide for deinterlacing and other useless infomation.
From reading you and Vurbal post it sounds like Vurbal is trying to be nice and you don't know what you are doing. One of these days maybe we'll get our thread back.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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3. August 2004 @ 17:03 |
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happyuser
I'm well known for my easy going gentle nature, and you're experiencing that now because in spite of the fact that you?re being a little on the annoying side, you?ve forgotten your manners, and a few simple but very real facts, I'm still smiling.
1) DVD-RB is still beta software.
2) If you don?t like then don?t use it
3) You are being unkind to some very knowledgeable people that have been trying to assist you.
4) We work for free.
5) If you know of a better system than DVD-RB/CCE Basic, I'm open, tell me about it, and I?ll try it.
6) As I said a couple of posts back that you questions are not going to help new users.
7) If you can?t take Vurbal?s advice then, whose advice will you take?
Now that wasn?t hard for me to be nice to you why can?t you do that for people who are giving their time to you freely!!!!!!!!!
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. August 2004 @ 18:05
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solo219
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3. August 2004 @ 17:42 |
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stop being cheap and buy high quailty meda...
you shouldn't mess with someone who reads...they actually think
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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3. August 2004 @ 18:33 |
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happyuser
It seems like, everything will be encoded at 23.976 fps
All of my backups read 29.97 fps, what do you mean? What?s your point?
I know that this (23.976] frame rate problem was reported with another application DVD2DVD-R/CCE (not DVD-RB). I also experienced the under sizing problem with it as well, Forrest Gump came in at just over 3 gigs. The picture quality was ok but I came back to DVD-RB because of those same issues you?re reporting.
I?ve made almost 40 backups using DVD-RB and only one bad backup and I edited the hell out of it with DVDremake before I did it. I?m beginning to think that you?re not leveling with us.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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happyuser
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3. August 2004 @ 19:34 |
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Sophocles
Reading your post, one can come the the conclusion that you, had not tried DVD-Rebuilder to CORRECTLY encode a lot of DVD movies. Or maybe you do not know this DVD-Rebuilder well. Maybe vurbal will understand what I wrote.
As I said, you have to do things correctly, especially when encoding video with CCE and AviSynth AVS.
You think this information is irrelevant for the beginners, think again: If you think the guide provided by vurbal about how to encode dvd movie with DVD-Rebuiler is a complete guide, think again.
Let's me informative learner.
When talk about video encoding, one must know about what I had written. One of these things is knowing about the three popular types of video: Progessive Film ( one that we can use forced film feature on ), contents that need to be IVTCed, and contents that are pure interlaced. If you, the beginners to the video encoding, do not want to know about these when dealing with the currently available DVD-Rebuilder, you better off with DVDx Copy.
DVD-Rebuilder want to be the one-click application just like the DVDx Copy. But this DVD-Rebuilder will have a long way to go: CCE encoding involves knowledge about video just like I had mention: if you do not know it: you will be crewed ( will make a lot of mistakes ). If so, you better off with the DVDx Copy.
Quote:
"
It seems like, everything will be encoded at 23.976 fps
All of my backups read 29.97 fps, what do you mean? What?s your point?
"
If you were realy in just like what you wrote here: you better learn a few things about DVD-Rebuilder: knowledge is always a good things.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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3. August 2004 @ 20:08 |
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happyuser
What do you mean by had not tried DVD-Rebuilder to CORRECTLY encode , mine works fine, you?re the one bitching about failures. All of my backups are of exceptional quality and what I may lack in knowledge in some areas, it isn't with hardware and quality of reproduction. If there are flaws, my equipment will reveal them. Maybe you've forgotten that I'm using CCE Basic 2.69.
If you know it all then why are you here wasting our time with your pumped up petty complaints? You won't win support by being a jerk and trying to intellectually subdue us to your cause. If you want us to listen to you then you're going to have to be upfront and honest, tell us who you are, you know who we are.
If your only purpose is espousing your hidden agenda then we?re not buying it. If you know a way to help our cause and help us to improve our efforts without subverting to your private agenda, then share it. We have a thread for that purpose. I have no reason to believe you on anything and neither does anyone else, you proved nothing beyond that of your expectations that we?re going to buy into your unsupported allegations of self proclaimed superiority.
I?m curious, what?s your native language? I know it's not English because you have difficulty iexpressing yourself with it!
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. August 2004 @ 03:47
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brobear
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4. August 2004 @ 05:21 |
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I'm amazed that the self proclaimed master on the subject finds so much difficulty with the program when the uneducated masses seem to have been doing very well before his self heralded entrance. I agree with Sophocles that some language lessons are needed when trying to converse with an English speaking audience. I had problems deciphering the attempts at communication.
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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4. August 2004 @ 05:34 |
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Edited to remove some unproductive crap
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. August 2004 @ 18:04
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brobear
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4. August 2004 @ 06:09 |
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Vurbal
It would be nice if he would. However, I doubt he wants to be by himself. He desires an audience too much.
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siber
Member
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4. August 2004 @ 17:04 |
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It seems that once every few days someone comes along and chooses to say hello with a flamethrower...
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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4. August 2004 @ 17:14 |
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One of these days I may learn to stop giving people the benefit of the doubt and be a know it all jackass from the start, but it seems like every time I do it's to somebody who turns out not to deserve it.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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4. August 2004 @ 17:28 |
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siber
I see you're still lurking. You always seem to show up when there's a conflict, you?ll note the gentler Sophocles. This guy was just playing with us and polluting a thread meant for interested beginners. I don?t think that he had a clue as to what he was saying, he probably copied and pasted the information he posted. When Vurbal started upping the ante by asking him increasingly more complicated questions, he folded.
I think that he almost had Vurbal to the point of joining the ?wild pack of dogs.? LOL
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
Staff Member
2 product reviews
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4. August 2004 @ 17:39 |
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I decline to respond on the grounds that my answer might incriminate me ;-)
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siber
Member
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4. August 2004 @ 17:49 |
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Yup, I'm still around but just really busy. It doesn't stop me from keeping track of you guys including the 'kinder, gentler Sophocles'. When I see you take abuse from some pathological weirdo, I just have to stop lurking for a while and show support.
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64026402
Senior Member
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4. August 2004 @ 17:53 |
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Vurbal,
Thanks for tackling the dummy.
I guess with Sophocles it was a gang tackle.
I'm rather happy with my rebuilder setup and was tired of hearing how it was all wrong.
He reminded me of heat damns and laser flares.
Or possibly S-Y-K-E-S.
Donald
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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4. August 2004 @ 18:00 |
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heh - heat dams. I forgot about that one.
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64026402
Senior Member
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4. August 2004 @ 18:11 |
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It was odd to read happys posts because I had just read the DVDshrink part2 review where the guy blasted rebuilder for being inferior on interlaced material.
I figured the guy was paying us a visit or something.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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4. August 2004 @ 18:23 |
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Ah yes the AKA S-Y-K-E-S is now used interchangeably to define the undesireable.
Hmm! Wasn't it he that led Vurbal into the realm of canine analogies?
Well my students arrive tomorrow like a pack of noisy Hyenas so I'd better get to bed.
Vurbal, you had your chance, but alas Henas are no longer available to you. Actually Vurbal I thought you handled it well, I almost felt uneeded.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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happyuser
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5. August 2004 @ 06:21 |
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vurbal, please allow me to quote some of what you wrote.
I wrote:
" So, for those pure interlaced source: for these pure interlaced segments, we can just encode them as interlaced ( alternate_scan=1, and ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) ); or we can Deinterlace them with SmoothDeinterlacer and encode them as Progressive ( progressive=1: by using "Disable Interlaced" function for all VTS_sets ).
The incentives to use a good Deinterlacer with DVD-Rebuilder is MANDATORY: a good Deinterlacer has to be used with DVD-Rebuilder.
This is your response:
"
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!! If you want the best quality encode you should encode the video the same way it was originally encoded.
"
===> What a joke. You can use this on the people who believes without checking whether what they heard or saw were really true or not. Again, what a joke.
vurbal, you had been blindly believing whatever Jobbs ( the author of this DVD-Rebuilder ) had said: just like a bible: you believe everything. And let me clarify on this:
First, DVD-Rebuilder is a great program. But it still has some short-falls, and one of this short-fall is the way it treat contents that need to be IVTCed and contents that are PURE interlaced. And the reasons are as I had already said, but please allow me to say it again.
As I had already said, DVD-Rebuilder FEEDS INTO CCE A BUNCH OF VIDEO SEGMENTS THAT ARE AT 23.976 fps.
1. DVD-Rebuilder uses FieldDeinterlacer with (blend=false) to deinterlace PURED INTERLCAED contents: and encode ( these contents ) as INTERLACED: alternate_scan=true ( alternate_scan=1 ).
2. It does not matter if you enable "Deinterlace with DECOMB" function, after you disable "Interlaced" (=encode as Progressive with ConvertToYUYs() ), DVD-Rebuilder will encode the title-set ( VTS-Set ) as progressive: if you disable "Interlaced" for ALL Video Title Sets ( VTS-Sets ), DVD-Rebuilder will encode every VTS-Set as PRGORESSIVE ( progessive=true (progressive=1) ) and NO DEINTERLACING ( with DECOMB ) is used at all.
3. So the result of number 2 above is this: PURE interlaced contents are being encoded as Progressive WITHOUT BEING DEINTERLACED AT ALL.
4. But if you did not disable "Interlaced", you will get into the problem of COLOR SHIFTING of ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) statement.
5. Now you will accept suffering Color Shifting encoding resulting from ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) usage, but the problem still the statement "FieldDeinterlaced(blend=true)": this is bad: FieldDeinterlacer is a bad deinterlacer !
6. And now you will disable "Deinterlace with DECOMB" function and also you will encode as interlaced with ConvertToYUYs(interlaced=true): what you are doing is encoding as interlaced ( alternate_scan=true ) with ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) which will result in some form of color shifting. Besides, interlaced ENCODING is far WORSE than Progressive encoding.
7. So you have done number 6 above which is to disable "Deinterlace with DECOMB" and you encode as interlaced with ConvertToYUYs(interlaced=true): and now the problem will lie with contents that needs to be IVTCed.
===> So to avoid all the problems above: here is the solution that we have to take to cope with the short-fall of the current DVD-Rebuilder:
1. Disable "Interlaced" for all VTS-Sets: this will encode everything as Progressive ( progressive=true and ConvertToYUY2() ).
2. Next, locate those segments ( AVSs ) that were PURE interlaced and deinterlace these segments with a good deinterlacer ( like the SmoothDeinterlacer ) and encode them as Progressive instead of interlaced.
3. And you are DONE.
Well, I had been successfully follow these tracks with SmoothDeinterlacer to deinterlace only those PURE interlaced segments ( AVSs ) and produce the best possible DVDs at low bitrate.
I would recomment anyone, including vurbal to try to CORRECTLY use the SmoothDeinterlacer with DVD-Rebuilder ( like I had tried ) before LOUDLY SAYING THAT THEIR CURRENTLY INADEQUATE GUIDE IS THE MOST PERFECT GUIDE.
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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5. August 2004 @ 07:22 |
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Edited to remove some REALLY unproductive crap
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. August 2004 @ 18:05
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brobear
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5. August 2004 @ 07:41 |
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Just when you thought S-Y-K-E-S had left the building.
Woof
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brobear
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5. August 2004 @ 07:54 |
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Poor wit and humor aside, this is going a bit far. Happyuser, if you are that unhappy, don't use the program. The Rebuilder I believe, was intended so the beginner could enjoy some of the uses of CCE without the high learning curve involved. Sometimes too much input takes the fun out. Especially if one is a part time enthusiast.
JDobbs and Vurbal have made it possible for many to use the program and they are doing so successfully. Your technical ramblings are doing no one any good. If you do want to make a statement, take it to the correct section of the board and leave this one be. Afterall, you are in the Newbie section. You want to be in the advanced section, if you dare.
I doubt your presence will be missed here. You are much too disruptive with nothing being achieved. If you are the expert you believe yourself to be, why don't you write a complete guide and see how that works out. No cheating copying parts of Vurbal's guide. We take away points for plagiarism.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. August 2004 @ 08:03
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happyuser
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5. August 2004 @ 08:03 |
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vurbal
From what you wrote, one can come to the conclusion that you do not know enough ( or maybe anything at all ) about the SmoothDeinterlacer. If you know about it, please prove that you have enough knowledge of it.
Well, since you have not tried it with DVD-Rebuilder, then you'd better listen to the ones who had tried it already.
Or I am in doubt that whether you know about this DVD-Rebuilder well enough to write a guide on it.
Please reread what I wrote about the incentive to deinterlace those contents that were pure interlaced. That was really a joke when you said that pure interlaced contents need not be deinterlaced when it is encoded as Progressive. Even when you decide to encode it as interlaced, with DVD-Rebuilder, interlaced encoding with the ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) would result in some form of color shifting.
If you are an enough responsible person who had wrote a guide on DVD-Rebuilder, you would be at least accept this "SHORT-FALL" of this DVD-Rebuilder.
What short-fall you may ask? Well, DVD-Rebuilder encode pure interlaced contents as progessive without deinterlacing them at all. If DVD-Rebuilder encode these pure interlaced contents as interlaced, the problem will arise with the statement ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) and the way DVD-Rebuilder had use "Forced Film" on these pure interlaced contents to bring them down from the original 29.976 fps to the 23.976 fps to feed into CCE.
Without a good deinterlacer, like the SmoothDeinterlacer to be use and to have to be used with this DVD-Rebuilder, there would be a great mistake in the ENCODING procedure.
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happyuser
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5. August 2004 @ 08:07 |
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brobear
No need for me to write a new guide. I had already used SmoothDeinterlacer with this DVD-Rebuilder and had successfully produced the best possible DVD quality you can imagine. No need to prove more while vurbal had not tried SmoothDeinterlacer with this DVD-Rebuilder.
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