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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. March 2011 @ 09:42 |
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Quote:
if they were burn marks, I'd expect to see at least some damage to the PCB itself
Well that's what I figured too. If those contacts were burnt, wouldn't you see burn marks on the surrounding PCB?
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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25. March 2011 @ 09:48 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Those are unusual marks, if they were burn marks, I'd expect to see at least some damage to the PCB itself, but nothing is evident. Windows photo viewer reads the image fine for me (though I did have a problem with it recently)
I must admit though, I'm struggling to see what I'm actually looking at, since I haven't taken a PCB off a disk before.
Sam,
Recently windows has changed the way some things work with hotmail. A lot of things that you could just click on before and see, now require Silverlite, which I installed at M$'s insistence, which also does not work.
I agree with you 100%, if those were burn marks, there should be some sign of damage, and I don't see any at all! The original picture when I downloaded it was 2592x1944. I had no idea that it was that big looking at it with WMP. I reduced it to 1296x972! I'm betting that it's not burned at all, but rather has been stained by Cigarette smoke! It's even more apparent now than it was in the original view I got of it with WMP. I would be far more comfortable with Kevin changing the controller now that I can see the connection better!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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25. March 2011 @ 09:58 |
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I agree with Sam those are not burn marks. Those are from the conformal coating they use to protect the board assembly and are normal. If you had a high heat issue from a component failure the multilayer board would also show a burnt haze too.
Thank you for the picture that does help.
You won't find Windows Photo Viewer as it runs as a shell file:
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe C:\WINDOWS\System32\shimgvw.dll,ImageView_Fullscreen
Russ, I've been in the business as well since I was around 7 years old, which would put my start around the mid 60's and yes I've worked with tubes as well, remember nixie tubes. My career has been in aerospace, aircraft, ships & subs as well as jet & shaft engine testing. So I've been on top secret bases, foreign military sites, and commercial airline test cells amongst many other things. Most of my career has been in design and development.
Omega, you need to isolate the problem with the drive out and not hooked up plug a live power connector into the drive and verify that the spindle is running as Russ made a good point about the motor possibly being bad. If it is not then I think you might want to try replacing the controller board.
Stevo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. March 2011 @ 09:59
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25. March 2011 @ 10:17 |
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How fortunate we are to have two such veterans of the industry in one thread :P
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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25. March 2011 @ 11:32 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
I agree with Sam those are not burn marks. Those are from the conformal coating they use to protect the board assembly and are normal. If you had a high heat issue from a component failure the multilayer board would also show a burnt haze too.
Thank you for the picture that does help.
You won't find Windows Photo Viewer as it runs as a shell file:
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe C:\WINDOWS\System32\shimgvw.dll,ImageView_Fullscreen
Russ, I've been in the business as well since I was around 7 years old, which would put my start around the mid 60's and yes I've worked with tubes as well, remember nixie tubes. My career has been in aerospace, aircraft, ships & subs as well as jet & shaft engine testing. So I've been on top secret bases, foreign military sites, and commercial airline test cells amongst many other things. Most of my career has been in design and development.
Omega, you need to isolate the problem with the drive out and not hooked up plug a live power connector into the drive and verify that the spindle is running as Russ made a good point about the motor possibly being bad. If it is not then I think you might want to try replacing the controller board.
Stevo
Steve,
I have to ask, because everyone always asks me. What was it about electronics that made you decide at 7 thet this is what you wanted to do. BTW, my 7 was in 1952. NRM Radio Electronics opened it's doors on July 4, 1952 in the town next to mine. No one had ever heard of an electronics store before, especially a Wholesale Distributor! I spent every spare moment in that place. My Bicycle was always out front! LOL!! One of my Mentors when I was a kid was the guy who coined the term Audio/Visual
It's interesting that our careers have somewhat Paralleled. I did a lot of work for NASA, in the Mid 70s. I spent about 20 years shuttling back and forth to Europe, South America and the Middle East in the 80s and 90s, because I had developed a reputation for getting things done and done right, and I had the ability to make things work when other people couldn't! I was offered a job with a large Medical Equipment manufacturer, working out of Marseille, France starting in Jan. of 2001, but I had a severe heart attack near the end of 2000, and I've only really worked a regular job for about 8 months since. I had a Heart attack on that job in 2006, and haven't been able to work since! I had originally planned on retiring in France in 2005 at 61! They were real nice about it and kept the job open for me for two years, but I just couldn't do it.
I can't really complain though. I've gotten to see a good part of the world, and somebody else paid for me to be there! LOL!!
Nixie tubes! LOL!! When I first went to Nasa, all of their test equipment used those. I don't think I've seen one since!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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25. March 2011 @ 12:27 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
I agree with Sam those are not burn marks. Those are from the conformal coating they use to protect the board assembly and are normal. If you had a high heat issue from a component failure the multilayer board would also show a burnt haze too.
Thank you for the picture that does help.
You won't find Windows Photo Viewer as it runs as a shell file:
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe C:\WINDOWS\System32\shimgvw.dll,ImageView_Fullscreen
Russ, I've been in the business as well since I was around 7 years old, which would put my start around the mid 60's and yes I've worked with tubes as well, remember nixie tubes. My career has been in aerospace, aircraft, ships & subs as well as jet & shaft engine testing. So I've been on top secret bases, foreign military sites, and commercial airline test cells amongst many other things. Most of my career has been in design and development.
Omega, you need to isolate the problem with the drive out and not hooked up plug a live power connector into the drive and verify that the spindle is running as Russ made a good point about the motor possibly being bad. If it is not then I think you might want to try replacing the controller board.
Stevo
Spindle? Look, all I know is the platters continue to run, even when windows loses the drive. The drive is no louder than any other. I guess we'll find out soon enough. Because I don't see the harm in swapping the controller boards, provided they look extremely similar. I'm gonna nitpick the hell out of it LOL!
Russ, I apologize about the high resolution. When I get pics, that's the first thing I'm interested in knowing. It's resolution. That's the most important factor to me, when finding imagery on the web. I gave it to you large, so you could zoom in, without losing too much quality :p
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25. March 2011 @ 13:43 |
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Omega, if you have the drive out of its bay and just have live power running to it take and mildly shift the drive from level, tip it side to side, and if the drive resists, gyro effect, you'll know the spindle motor is working. However it could be spinning but be below the acceptable margin of 7200 rpm and still be bad so there should be good resistance when tipping the drive. Don't get carried away though, no sudden moves. You may want to try it with a good drive first just to get the feel of the resistance.
Russ, I have a father that was into electronics and I've always been good in physics, science, and math so I tinkered with transistor radios, old shortwave tube units and of course the Heath kit stuff too. Even at 7 I was the go to guy when it came to electronics in the neighborhood and since I love music I was also the kid who had the best stereo gear as well. That still holds today even though I haven't got crazy about it lately.
Stevo
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25. March 2011 @ 16:33 |
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I pulled the drive out of the sata dock, while it was still spinning. In other words, I shut off the dock, and rapidly removed the drive. To my surprise, the drive tried to jump out of my hands. Is that a good sign? LOL!!!
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25. March 2011 @ 16:45 |
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It's normal. Think of all the momentum those spinning platters have. Don't pick up a drive when it's still spinning!
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25. March 2011 @ 16:46 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
I pulled the drive out of the sata dock, while it was still spinning. In other words, I shut off the dock, and rapidly removed the drive. To my surprise, the drive tried to jump out of my hands. Is that a good sign? LOL!!!
That's a good sign! Your drive motor should be good.
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25. March 2011 @ 17:04 |
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Damn right! LOL!
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26. March 2011 @ 04:09 |
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Well guys...I think I'm gonna throw in the towel. I'm not liking what I'm reading on the following site. Fact of the matter is, the odds of a PCB swap working, are nearly zero. I don't like that figure. And I don't want to risk trashing another drive with odds like those. The firmware is actually located on the Platters! I found that interesting. Can't seem to get a quote for retrieval from them though :S My brothers not gonna like this...
http://www.salvagedata.com/hard-drive/western-digital-data-recovery/wd5000aaks/
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26. March 2011 @ 04:15 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Well guys...I think I'm gonna throw in the towel. I'm not liking what I'm reading on the following site. Fact of the matter is, the odds of a PCB swap working, are nearly zero. I don't like that figure. And I don't want to risk trashing another drive with odds like those. The firmware is actually located on the Platters! I found that interesting. Can't seem to get a quote for retrieval from them though :S My brothers not gonna like this...
http://www.salvagedata.com/hard-drive/western-digital-data-recovery/wd5000aaks/
Oman7,
I don't know if that is BS or not! Rick just recently swapped a controller on a WD 750 without any issue, and I've never read anywhere that the firmware is on the platters. While it's possible, I've never heard of it. I tried to get hold of Rick, but he must be asleep. If I see him come on line, I'll ask him.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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26. March 2011 @ 04:27 |
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They're supposedly professionals. WD recommends them. I suppose it's possible, that they are simply saying those things, to dissuade people. So that they'll spend money on their services ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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26. March 2011 @ 06:50 |
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I agree with Russ and yes WD would not suggest that the average Joe even touches their drives outside of installing them. In fact they don?t even want professionals? to touch them unless they are WD certified! They are correct that some of the firmware is stored on the platter(s) in the configuration service area as some of the drive table info is there too, but that doesn't mean your controller board isn't the problem. However It could be that the service area on the platter is corrupt and for your situation the magnetic properties of that area would need to be weak not corrupted as your situation it works and then does not.
I don't blame you if you want to throw in the towel because you can do more damage if you mess around further so that is the safe bet for you. It?s smart to be safe and not sorry if you are at all worried about what you want to tackle.
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26. March 2011 @ 09:52 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Omega, if you have the drive out of its bay and just have live power running to it take and mildly shift the drive from level, tip it side to side, and if the drive resists, gyro effect, you'll know the spindle motor is working. However it could be spinning but be below the acceptable margin of 7200 rpm and still be bad so there should be good resistance when tipping the drive. Don't get carried away though, no sudden moves. You may want to try it with a good drive first just to get the feel of the resistance.
Russ, I have a father that was into electronics and I've always been good in physics, science, and math so I tinkered with transistor radios, old shortwave tube units and of course the Heath kit stuff too. Even at 7 I was the go to guy when it came to electronics in the neighborhood and since I love music I was also the kid who had the best stereo gear as well. That still holds today even though I haven't got crazy about it lately.
Stevo
Steve,
You sound like my clone! LOL!! I used to be the go to guy when I was just a little kid. I repaired all the neighbors Radios, TVs, Record players and so on. I opened my first business, a Car Radio repair shop when I was 15. Hybrids had just started coming in then, and most shops hated them (Old school). I don't know why because all you had to do 99% of the time is turn them on, and if the speaker didn't go thump, it needed the power transistors replaced. I rented space in a local garage and I made a pretty good living fixing them. The Old school repairman were afraid of transistors, and used to send me all that kind of work. I learned to repair Tape recorders, 16 and 8mm projectors, and finally started repairing all of the local School's AV equipment. I also made a pretty good living doing it! LOL!! I finally sold the original business in 68, and moved on to Dental and then Medical, among other things! it was a Doctor friend that first got me into NASA! In 80s on Junk night, I used to hunt for VCR boxes, as normally if you found a box for a new one, generally the old one was inside the new one's box. I used to buy the whole belt and drive idler kit for $16 and sell the repaired VCRs for $50 to $75. Nice profit too, and I made a lot of people that couldn't afford a new one very happy! I started building custom computers in the late 80's, 497 to date and with 3 more builds and I'll reach 500! Don't know where all the years went, but they sure have been fun!
Best regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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rick5446
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. March 2011 @ 12:55 |
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I just had a HDD go bad WD sent another one. When it arrived I swapped the controler card on the backs, and recovered all the files on the bad drive . After I had finished I swapped them back, and returned the bad one to WD .. My personal opinion is in most HDD cases it's the card on the back of the HDD , unless you hear or have grinding . Not sayin all cases, but most
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27. March 2011 @ 13:08 |
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You had no trouble swapping PCB's? I'm afraid if I remove the good controller, and run the faulty drive with it, that the good drive may not like it's controller anymore :S
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rick5446
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27. March 2011 @ 14:11 |
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I had no problem what so ever. Just take out the screws and it lifts right out
Does the card have a hot spot on it ? When I hook up the five volt line the card has a hot spot or smell that tells me it's the card not the drive itself
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2011 @ 14:13
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27. March 2011 @ 14:58 |
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I've removed the board 3 times. Just to see if I missed something. Given some of the information is stored on the platters, there's a slight chance that the problem lyes there. I guess we'll see. I don't think it can do any harm to try it. If it does, I can replace their current HTPC drive with my "Yolanda" terabyte drive. I'm prepared to lose her :( Kind of...
Yes, there are what appear to be burned marks. I'm skeptical that the burn marks are the problem though. Whatever caused the burn marks however, is another story. We're hopeful, that the two drives are similar enough to allow a card transfusion lol!
I'll be headed over there in an hour or two...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2011 @ 14:58
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27. March 2011 @ 17:29 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
You had no trouble swapping PCB's? I'm afraid if I remove the good controller, and run the faulty drive with it, that the good drive may not like it's controller anymore :S
Oman7,
That's when you switch it back and play dumb, if you get my drift.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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27. March 2011 @ 22:25 |
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I get your drift LOL! I still have 3+ months warranty on the good AAKS drive.
I tried swapping controllers. To say it had no effect would be untrue. It definitely acted different. The sata dock showed very good activity, but the plates spun down and the drive seemed to disconnect from windows. When the faulty drive has IT'S controller, the plates do not spin down. The firmwares are different too. The temporary controller may not have known what to do with the slightly older drive.
I plan to hold on to the faulty drive, in the hopes that one day, the data can be retrieved. But my brother and his wife have accepted the worst. I'll likely recommend some form of Raid 1 array, so that they can be more content in the future. They've been talking with someone at work, that has a file server serving their entire household needs. I may just have to go one on one with this guy, and see about getting inspired by his ideas. From what I've heard, it sounds similar to what creaky has going. I think Creaky's setup might be a little more complex though.
Thankfully, the good 5000AAKS drive is still good. I put the drive back in the HTPC, and all is well. No troubles whatsoever. And his primary computer is likely gonna get 2 more fans really soon. A hard drive cooling fan, and a new exhaust fan for the rear. It makes a curious vibration noise...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2011 @ 22:26
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27. March 2011 @ 23:05 |
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Currently have about 3TB of stuff with no backups to speak of :S
I would have more redundancy but my personal media collection is hardly important enough to justify doubling my storage costs. If anything is worth saving I keep a backup on my 500GB External WD MyBook. Everything else I throw caution to the wind. So far never had a drive failed on me but several are basically retired. Both my whisper quiet 320GB Seagate 7200.9s are long gone to other machines as well as a 160GB 7200.10
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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27. March 2011 @ 23:12 |
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You can setup a raid (whatever) without having a full blown server i.e.,Windows 8 or Windows 2003R2. I've used a media server type PC and you can still setup periodic backups too. You'll want to use the same drive types and select something that isn't going to be obsolete soon. I would suggest a enterprise drive, for Seagate?s they end in NS instead of AS for the models numbers but you can use a desktop drive too, however the manufacture could void warranty on a drive used 24/7 that is intended for a desktop computer. I like RAID 5, 10, or 50 but 1 is probably all you'll need.
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27. March 2011 @ 23:22 |
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Same here Jeff. Caution to the wind :S I am trying to create redundancies though. But money is an issue at the moment. Most of my dvd collection is on hard drive and dvd. But a good portion of my dvds haven't been burned yet. I've decided to forgo burning them, and switch to Hard drives exclusively. Hopefully none of them give out before I'm capable of cloning them.
Backups for my brother are his decision. I've given him ideas, and the general cost of said ideas. They know what they need to do. Honestly, Good dvds are the way to go for backing up Pictures. But hard drive redundancy sure is convenient. No burning, and plug and play :D
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