|
The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
|
|
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 05:36 |
Link to this message
|
|
Actually it is an option to not have them attached, but only if you're using it as a secondary booster supply, which is pretty rare. In any case, very few PSU brands bother making those two connectors modular for this reason.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
2. April 2011 @ 09:38 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by sammorris:
Actually it is an option to not have them attached, but only if you're using it as a secondary booster supply, which is pretty rare. In any case, very few PSU brands bother making those two connectors modular for this reason.
Sam,
I remember when these first came out, seeing one that everything was modular on. Had to be 3-4 years ago. I remember making a comment about the Amphenol type connector and why it was a poor choice for power, because when you put a heavy load through that type of connection, it eventually causes heat that causes the metal contacts to expand when warm and contract when cold. Gradually the connection develops high resistance, much like a cold solder joint, and get's hot and eventually arcs inside the connection. I've seen one! The brass pins inside of the plug melted! The female pins were solid brass, and fairly heavy with 4 splits in them, the idea being the slight tension when the pins mate would be enough to keep a tight connection. No one took into account that over time that through the process of getting warm and then cooling off, some of the temper of the brass would be lost and the connection would become looser, even though the lock ring on the plug would be tight. I've seen the same thing with the basic 4 prong Peripheral Connectors, where the plugs were burned almost black from a bad connection.
As far as I know, only Silverstone and SeaSonic have modular power connections, all the rest are hard wired internally!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
 |
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 10:00 |
Link to this message
|
Modular is a problem just like SATA (internal) are poor connectors low cycle insertion rates with sloppy tolerances. They should use a self wiping connector but that is not cost effective apparently, I don't personally get goo-goo eyed over mod PS's but I do have one though. I can neatly manage a hard wired PS with no problem and really don't see the need for modular myself.
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 10:02 |
Link to this message
|
Sounds mainly like an out of spec thing then, because the typical 4-5A load through those connectors isn't enough to get them very warm at all. Any heat they pick up is likely to be transfer from the heat of the PSU itself, and if the PSU casing is getting that hot, then the PSU isn't very good anyway. It should be noted that Seasonic are about the best PSU manufacturer there is right now, so if they do something, it's probably justifiable.
The only PSUs I remember seeing with amphenol connectors are Hiper and ABS, which aren't two brands I place high faith in, at least not any more.
|
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 10:25 |
Link to this message
|
|
The connector can have resistance even brand new and that is the problem, the heat is the effect from that resistance. Then if the load is high current that also makes it worst.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
2. April 2011 @ 11:51 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by sammorris:
Sounds mainly like an out of spec thing then, because the typical 4-5A load through those connectors isn't enough to get them very warm at all. Any heat they pick up is likely to be transfer from the heat of the PSU itself, and if the PSU casing is getting that hot, then the PSU isn't very good anyway. It should be noted that Seasonic are about the best PSU manufacturer there is right now, so if they do something, it's probably justifiable.
The only PSUs I remember seeing with amphenol connectors are Hiper and ABS, which aren't two brands I place high faith in, at least not any more.
Sam,
That's what the one I saw was, an ABS! If I'm not mistaken, I think you bought a Hiper! The ABS had the 20+4 connector, the CPU plug and a plug for the video card. I don't remember what kind of plug that was, but the whole thing drew far more amps than the 4-5A you are talking about, especially if the computer was overclocked. This was 3-4 years ago, maybe more, and chips back then used a lot more power than they do today. You could fry eggs on some of the old AMD and P4 chips of the day. I burned the peripheral plug for my 800GTS and had to replace the plug socket on the video card because of a bad connection. One day I turned it on and there was no video. You couldn't even unplug the video card! Turned that sucker almost black and melted the plastic together! That's before I learned the importance of a good quality PSU, and knowing the difference between crap and something decent! I think I had that "Black Chrome piece of junk then! You also have to consider that once they start arcing, the Amp load goes even higher! BTW, I doubt very much that the case of the PSU would absorb very much heat, because the socket itself was some kind of hard Bakelite kind of material They weren't metal! I had to use my channel locks to get the lock ring off of the ABS. In fact I had to break the plug to see what was left of the insides of the plug socket! LOL!! Once I got the socket out, I enlarged the hole, and installed a rubber grommet and a new harness on the ABS. It worked fine after that!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 12:04 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yeah I had a Hiper Type-R 580W, which incidently, is still in use in a friend's system today, at the age of 4y9m, outlasting its CWT-built Thermaltake Toughpower replacement, which the guy I sold it to has retired due to unstable rails.
CPUs back in 2006 ish when those PSUs were popular actually used a lot less power than enthusiast CPUs do today, the difference was that their cooling systems were much less proficient. With the exception of the extreme editions and the Pentium dual core which we'll draw a veil over, most CPUs were at most, 90W, the 120-140W we regularly see with AMDs and i7s these days was almost unheard of back then. Prior to the CPUs in those days, draw was even less, you can track the steady increase of component power consumption (graphics is worse, but CPUs have done it too) over the years, as you look back over each generation.
Modularity was actually quite poor on the Type-R, you only got a PCIe 6-pin, or a couple of molexes, or a couple of SATAs on each bracket, very little in the way of current draw, it was almost impossible for any of them to draw more than 6A.
The ABS of course may well be a completely different story.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. April 2011 @ 12:05
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 13:50 |
Link to this message
|
|
Definitely missing the Scythe fan. At least a little. Cpu temperature is up 2 - 3C without the Scythe pulling air through the radiator. Not extreme no, but since summer time is around the corner, I definitely wanna get the best temperatures possible. I live in a Semiarid region, that gets pretty warm in the summer time :p And who knows, perhaps a real water cooling solution could be in my future. Provided my finances perk up :(
A buddy of mine just lost his job at the very place that I want to work! It won't happen though. It's extremely difficult to get on there. And finding a second job to mesh well with my current job...difficult to say the least.
Recommendations for a fan controller? Rather than buy another 1200 scythe, I'll use my 1900 and tone it down a bit ;) I'll also be buying the 1090t here soon, so cost should be a consideration. Though quality is definitely a must.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. April 2011 @ 14:18
|
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 14:25 |
Link to this message
|
The Yate Loons Nexus 120mm is very quite and in the rpm range you are looking for.
link
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 14:30 |
Link to this message
|
Ahh yes. I've bought 2 Nexus fans. Impressive actually. 2 80mm fans. One is in an HTPC, the other is about to replace an exhaust fan in my brothers primary machine. Pretty quiet, and moves some air.
Fact of the matter is though, I'm really gonna need a controller soon anyway. I imagine I'll have more fans in the HAF down the road. I'd like direct control of those fans. I'm looking at these two. I believe Sam has respect for this particular brand, if I'm not mistaken.
Sunbeam Rheobus
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 14:36 |
Link to this message
|
|
|
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 14:40 |
Link to this message
|
|
I've had some nasty fan controllers one I just threw out that was real pretty had a lit lcd display and all the bells and whistles but that Sunbeam is a much better unit than the one I just dumped at 4x its cost. Sam has good taste.
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 15:02 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yeah I actually retired the rheobus as I was sick of the ridiculous LEDs and needed another controller to replace a failed rheobus extreme, so I figured I'd do both at once and bought two Scythe KazeMasters. They're pretty slick.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 15:21 |
Link to this message
|
Hmmm, the Rheobus extreme is what i'm really looking at. 30W per channel just plain sounds tough, compared to other models. I think I can deal with "Ridiculous" LED's LOL! Plus it has 6 channels. Eventually, 4 would not be enough, and I don't like the idea of using yet another bay for another controller :p Just how bright are the LED's? In a dark room, is it considerable? I know when I first got the HAF932, the Power led + Hdd activity light were rather extreme. I got used to it though.
Although I suppose your Kaze master at 1 amp per channel is impressive. That'd easily handle my 1900 scythe. Which is only a half amp I believe...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. April 2011 @ 15:29
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 15:33 |
Link to this message
|
Well, all I can say is the original Rheobus didn't short out my PSU a couple of times due to a part that fell off (I couldn't identify if the suspect part was from the case or from the controller), neither did it fail with large scorch marks on the power connector. That said, the original rheobus didn't run a failed fan unnoticed for a couple of days overloading it, so I suppose credit where it's due, the failure of the extreme is perhaps unsurprising.
The original rheobus LEDs are bright enough to light a standard sized room to the point where you can read a book, away from the light source, they put out as much light as perhaps a 20W bulb would in a desklamp. Don't look directly at them, you probably would damage your eyes temporarily.
The extreme LEDs are less obtrusive as they're filtered by the dials themselves, but still annoying to see in the background if at full brightness (based on set fan voltage).
Meanwhile the VFDs on the scythes, while not exactly dim, are far from obtrusive, producing similar light to the display on a VCR or DVD player.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 16:13 |
Link to this message
|
|
Rather than chance obnoxious LED's, I'll take your recommendation for the Kaze controller. They're very similarly priced ;) If I need more fan control later, I'll deal with it then. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, I can wire in two fans per channel. Provided it doesn't breach the limitations of the channel ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 16:30 |
Link to this message
|
|
I ran four fans off one channel before without incident. Of course, the rpm sensing capabilities of the Kazemaster mean I'm more likely not to do such a thing, regardless of current limitations.
|
|
Red_Maw
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 19:30 |
Link to this message
|
|
I pulled the LED's out of my Rheobus and have no complaints at all.
---
Recently I've been having this issue when switching to/from full screen applications or when you lock the computer/hit crtl+alt+del etc. the system kinda locks up and takes a long time (10-15s) to change what's displayed with both monitors black the majority of the time. Sequence tends to go: system goes unresponsive -> right monitor goes black -> main monitor goes black -> right monitor displays again -> main monitor displays again -> system becomes responsive again. Nothing new has been installed and restarting normally fixes the problem for a few hours.
If anyone has any idea as to what's going on I'd appreciate your input as I'm pretty stumped.
TIA
redmaw
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
2. April 2011 @ 19:41 |
Link to this message
|
Hmm, sounds like the graphics driver isn't mode switching properly. Maybe try a graphics driver update first.
|
|
Red_Maw
Senior Member
|
2. April 2011 @ 20:18 |
Link to this message
|
|
Thank you sam. Just updated back in Feburary so I'll try that, hopefully it'll will work.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
4. April 2011 @ 03:14 |
Link to this message
|
You guys ever use these to mount your fans? I decided not to. I used the standard fan screws. My brothers computer is very quiet now. Almost silent. An 800Rpm scythe cooling the HDD bay, and an 80mm nexus exhausting the system. And of course the 400W corsair exhausting.
I'm now thinking that the 1090t purchase is unjustified. I won't get as much as i'd like for the 965 phenom II. Meaning I'd be paying more for the 1090t than I can afford right now. The 965 seems to be averaging barely over 100USD. Factor in Ebay fees, and it's rather discouraging. I'm now thinking I'll turn my attention to the northbridge cooling. I don't like the temps I'm seeing while running X264, and I'm only allowing 3 cores. The CPU itself remains respectable at high usage, but the Northbridge comes close to 50C. Given my past luck with chipsets, I don't like it :p
Given Bulldozer will make its debut in less than a year(?) I think I'll attempt to remain patient. I know I'm gonna want one, whether I upgrade to 1090t or not.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2011 @ 03:16
|
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
|
4. April 2011 @ 05:10 |
Link to this message
|
Try what Russ and I did and mount an AMD HSF fan on your Northbridge. It tucks really nicely into the bracket for the Coolit between the screw pegs and the main body of the pump, facing down towards the chipset heatsink. And it secures perfectly with a single zip tie around the frame of the fan and under the pump bracket. I can even take the Coolit block off, with it still attached. Remember all 3 of us are using roughly the same board, so I know it can work for you.
Because the surface area of the fan is so small, It doesn't interfere with my top exhaust or affect my CPU temps. Also compared to the rest of my system it's silent. Forget the exact temps but my chipset used to reach the mid 50s under load. Now it never tops 45~ish and idles at about 30-35.
Using Everest I was able to figure out what my temp sensors are in HWMonitor. Sensor one is labeled "Motherboard", two is labeled "CPU" and three is labeled "Chipset". I take CPU to mean the on-board CPU temp, and chipset is obviously my Northbridge. Wondering what Motherboard could mean.
Everest actually puts the label on motherboard but not on chipset. So I only knew for sure Sensor three was my chipset when it was the sensor that responded from adding a fan.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2011 @ 05:39
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
4. April 2011 @ 05:39 |
Link to this message
|
50C for a chipset is fine as long as you don't exceed it.
Those rubber fan mounts are very variable in performance. Sometimes they work well, other times they're completely useless.
|
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
|
4. April 2011 @ 05:42 |
Link to this message
|
Yeah AFAIK up to 55-60 is just fine as long as it's not runaway heat(ie mid 50s and still climbing). It's only a real problem if the case is low airflow, which can allow pockets of heat to build up.
The rubber fan mounts are hit and miss. They use similar mounts to attach the fans to the Arctic Freezer which works very well. In my experience though, case fans work best when suspended from rubber bands :P
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2011 @ 05:44
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
4. April 2011 @ 06:09 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by omegaman7:
You guys ever use these to mount your fans? I decided not to. I used the standard fan screws. My brothers computer is very quiet now. Almost silent. An 800Rpm scythe cooling the HDD bay, and an 80mm nexus exhausting the system. And of course the 400W corsair exhausting.
I'm now thinking that the 1090t purchase is unjustified. I won't get as much as i'd like for the 965 phenom II. Meaning I'd be paying more for the 1090t than I can afford right now. The 965 seems to be averaging barely over 100USD. Factor in Ebay fees, and it's rather discouraging. I'm now thinking I'll turn my attention to the northbridge cooling. I don't like the temps I'm seeing while running X264, and I'm only allowing 3 cores. The CPU itself remains respectable at high usage, but the Northbridge comes close to 50C. Given my past luck with chipsets, I don't like it :p
Given Bulldozer will make its debut in less than a year(?) I think I'll attempt to remain patient. I know I'm gonna want one, whether I upgrade to 1090t or not.
Oman7,
My NB never goes higher than 39C. It's got to get really warm in here before the CPU get's past 40C, like say above 29C (85F). That's encoding, but if I stress test all 6 cores at 100% the CPU will get to 47C on a hot 100F+ day! I have no idea why it runs so much cooler than the 955BE did. I've checked all over the motherboard with the infrared Thermal Probe, and the heat just isn't there, and the 1090T is clocked 200Mhz higher than the 955BE was! All the temps are within half a degree of what Everest is reporting. Much less heat coming out of the radiator too. Same wattage, so I have no idea why, but it's not an error with the thermal sensors!
Loving the new Monitor! I hope the PSU show's tomorrow. Lately Newegg has been confirming the credit card before shipping, so everything takes a day longer now! It will be here by Tuesday!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
|
