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Is DVD Rebuilder/CCE worth if for less than 20% compression?
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 15:54 |
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I just might take you up on it but a little later, I have a busy life. Perhaps I could also invite a few of my comrades as well, would that be ok?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 15:55 |
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P.S: when you did your v3.2 beta comparison tests, did you zoom-in on the video stream while it was being played, or on frame captures?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 15:56
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 15:58 |
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The more the merrier. :D
you could each do a different movie, which would make the tests even more useful. ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 16:08 |
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Then the game is afoot!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 16:10 |
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Wahhooooo!!! :D
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 16:21 |
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 16:25 |
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What about starting a new, clean thread when the first test(s) are ready for download?
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 16:32 |
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I could go for that!
We should be able to get started by the weekend.
why don't you see if you can get DVD Shrink to join us.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 16:34
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 16:35 |
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LOTR!!!!, please God, no, I can't take it anymore! I am already so sick of LOTR from all our testing I won't watch it for at least another 20 years!!!!
Could we do another movie, and at what compressions are you talking about?
 GO VOLS ! |
AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 16:38 |
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Double "D" is caught in a time warp and we're all somehow drawn into it by a spatial time warp.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 16:49 |
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LOL :D
I'm talking movies that will require 35 to 40% compression, hence LOTR. :)
Don't all do the same movie though. ;)
What about...
- "oldie" (black&white?).
- recent blockbuster.
- very grainy.
- computer generated.
- anime.
?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 16:50
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 16:55 |
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64026402
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 17:58 |
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ddlooping
You did know that you can pull the same trick with smoothing and sharpness with Rebuilder/CCE didn't you.
I prefer a sharper picture. So Rebuilder standard settings work good for me. But if you want to fuzz the picture to Shrink level you can.
I personally like the new shrink on sharper settings. It is better for actually watching although you can stop and zoom in to see edges and details.
As good as new shrink is I don't wish to give up VBR and encoding ability. Can't make me.;)
I realize all this was to prove a point but you would have got a better response with the truth, not some check my monitor thing.
Donald
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:12 |
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Donald, I think you somehow missed my point.
The latest comparisons do not show that DVD Shrink yelds a softer, less detailed result.
It shows that , with this particular movie, DVD2DVD-R/CCE 2-pass shows more artefacts and macroblocking.
DVD Shrink is much closer to the original in terms of sharpness than CCE.
CCE adds "noise", which might mislead you into thinking it's sharper when it's not. ;)
The "check my monitor thing" was totally genuine.
These latest tests took me by surprise, as the last thing I was expecting was for the CCE backup to be bettered by v3.2 "Smooth" setting at 60.9%.
On previous tests, CCE was so noticeably better than v3.2 beta that I had not taken the time to really scrutinize this particular clip.
My attention was turned more toward IC8, which was the main "target" while beta-testing (Sophocles, having had access to the beta-testers forum, can testify to that).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 18:12
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 18:20 |
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Alas the error was in the methods used by DVD2DVD-R. A common one is that it takes 29.97 frames and often reduces them to 23.96 and it tends to undersize the final result. It also sometimes requires accurate bitrate and other settings. RB uses avisynth where DVD-R uses IFOEdit, too many differences to be compared. What's strange is since DVD2DVD-R makes movie only backups one would think the smaller file size would be a benefit but it's not.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:20 |
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P.S: "You did know that you can pull the same trick with smoothing and sharpness with Rebuilder/CCE didn't you."
My goal has always been to try to have a backup as close to the original as possible.
I don't think I would use any of these filters except when the original is of really bad quality. ;)
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:27 |
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Sophocles, I'm no expert but DVD2DVD-R does use avisynth.
It only uses IfoEdit to re-mux.
"...29.97 frames and often reduces them to 23.96"
I have never used DVD2DVD-R/CCE/avisynth/IfoEdit on region 1 NTSC discs.
IfoEdit is buggy when used with NTSC which is why US users stick to Scenarist to re-mux.
I can assure you I have never encountered a backup where the frame-rate had been changed.
P.S: all my comparison tests involving DVD2DVD-R/CCE have been conducted on R2 PAL discs.
In any case, I'm looking forward to view your compilations. :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 18:29
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 18:33 |
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I have! I did Forrest Gump and the file came in a gig undersized with 23.96 frame rate. I did a search and found it to be not uncommon. I still use it because I like the movie only feature. You're correct about it using avisynth or at least its Dlls. I'm doing a backup of Paycheck with it tonight, already did it with DVDRB.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 18:35
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64026402
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:33 |
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Since I don't use dvd2dvdr I can't make a direct comparision.
I can do Rebuilder. I still need to know the specifcs of your results. The time frame used in ROTK. The program(s) used for capture and specifcs on resolution and settings.
Since this is the new and improved version of the new and improved shrink I'll get another download for testing.
Reguardless, unless VBR has been added to the list of options It doesn't have a chance of being top dog in a quality test because of its inability to adapt to the faster scenes needing a higher bit rate.
At the same time you need to learn DVDrebuilder to make comparisions to what we do. I don't consider dvd2dvdr comparable.
My personal favorite for long action movies is still braveheart. At max compression Shrink won't back it up unless a language is trimmed.
I'm still not tired of it.
Donald
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:37 |
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File sizes of the DVD Shrink and DVD2DVD-R clips in the latest tests:
- 32smooth_CCEvbr2_1 | DVD Shrink: 1,686kb / DVD2DVD-R/CCE: 1,922kb.
- 32smooth_CCEvbr2_2 | DVD Shrink: 1,194kb / DVD2DVD-R/CCE: 1,300kb.
- 32smooth_CCEvbr2_3 | DVD Shrink: 762kb / DVD2DVD-R/CCE: 906kb.
- 32smooth_CCEvbr2_4 | DVD Shrink: 1,900kb / DVD2DVD-R/CCE: 1,976kb.
- 32smooth_CCEvbr2_5 | DVD Shrink: 2,122kb/ DVD2DVD-R/CCE: 1,668kb.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 18:38
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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18. August 2004 @ 18:39 |
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64026402
A very fair request and one that I think double "D" will honor.
@Double "D", Your system is using DDR 1600 0r 2100 memory but according to what I discovered the CPU is a T-Bird not Palo or T-bred. could be wrong but I based it on the board model you gave me.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:50 |
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"Reguardless, unless VBR has been added to the list of options It doesn't have a chance of being top dog in a quality test because of its inability to adapt to the faster scenes needing a higher bit rate."
AEC + Deep Analysis are as close as VBR as a transcoder can be.
Some have commented that DVD Shrink is now closer to an encoder than a transcoder, lol.
Why don't you use Braveheart for doing one of the comparison tests that will be uploaded?
v3.2.0.15 Deep Analysis / AEC "Smooth" vs. DVD RB CCE 2-pass. ;)
"I did Forrest Gump and the file came in a gig undersized with 23.96 frame rate."
Was it NTSC/R1 disc?
As I said, IfoEdit doesn't deal well with these. ;)
"A very fair request and one that I think double "D" will honor. "
I think I missed the request, lol.
What was it? :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 18:53
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. August 2004 @ 18:53 |
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It doesn't matter what movie I use as long as it's the same for both programs, and that they use the same amts. of compression at about 40% to 50%, right? Should we use smooth in shrink or sharp, to be honest with ya I have never used the smooth setting even when beta testing, I just assumed sharp would be better so I stuck with that during testing to give shrink it's best shot, now from what double d says, maybe I should use smooth.
One last question, since I have windvd6 I can use short clips or still pics, what is evryone else doing?
GO VOLS !
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64026402
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 18:58 |
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Sophocles,
XPs were by definition palamino or higher. Thunderbirds wer the first socketA before the ratings were used. If it is indeed an XP1700. 1.47 ghz palamino or T-bred are the only cores available in that speed that I am aware.
Donald
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 19:00 |
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bigorange, we'll start with 35-40% compression if you don't mind, lol.
Please use the "Smooth" setting with Deep Analysis.
Still pics are no good by themselves.
Please make compilations of short clips (3 to 5 seconds) using DVD Shrink reauthor "start/end", or any other reauthoring software if you think DVD Shrink changes the video stream when "No Compression" is used.
When doing the compilations, remove the audio/subpicture streams from the clips, so as to minimize the compilation sizes.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. August 2004 @ 19:01
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