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Intel P4 vs AMD
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brobear
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18. December 2005 @ 18:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Use a software capture program such as Capturewiz. You can check apps out at http://www.download.com/ , here's the link to the CaptureWizPro download http://www.download.com/3120-20_4-0.html?qt=CapturewizPro&tg=dl-2... . There's freeware that will do the job, but maybe not as well. Once you do the capture, you host it on a site like http://www.imageshack.us and then use the img tags on the message page to enclose the link so it will open in your post. Nothing to it. ;)

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 18:07

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18. December 2005 @ 18:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You can also screen cap the pic using ALT PRNTSCRN. Paste to Paint, or open up PaintShop Pro....save as jpg, or gif....png as I like to.

Here's the math you guys wanted.




@brobear....hey, no fair throwing in 64bit CPUs!! :)


So tell me, if a customer came to you....and asked you to build them a 2Ghz system...what would you build them? Give this customer the best bang for their buck.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 18:16

brobear
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18. December 2005 @ 18:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
@brobear....hey, no fair throwing in 64bit CPUs!! :)
Now where did I go and do that? You must have been looking at one of Sophocles posts. I was putting up benches for antiques. LOL

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -
brobear
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18. December 2005 @ 18:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
That's an antique 32 bit system. ;)



If you notice, it matches the Current CPU in the Sandra Item window. That's how you show the bench matches the CPU-Z screen.



'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 18:34

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18. December 2005 @ 18:54 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
picky picky picky....... :P



This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 18:55

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18. December 2005 @ 18:58 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The chipset in this motherboard is going south on me, so I will be posting new spec as soon as I get my new mobo. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a similar board under $100, since everyone's moving on to 64bit Socket 939s.

I will be switching from nVidia's nForce 2 to VIA's KT880.
brobear
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18. December 2005 @ 19:26 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Post em up so we can see your improvements. If you use the right software, you can even do the entire Item listing of the benchmark info. Here's what the old Northwood info looks like, benchmark results, specs and all. ;)



I paid a bit closer attention to the processor you have. There's a noticable difference between the Athlon 3000+ and the Athlon XP 3000+. Here's what AMD had to say about it when it came out in 'O3:
Quote:
The AMD Athlon XP processor 3000+ features 640KB of total on-chip cache memory ? an increase of nearly 70 percent over previous AMD Athlon XP processors and the highest amount of on-chip cache memory of any desktop PC processor. Increased cache memory allows more information to be stored closer to the processor, leading to greater performance on software applications such as digital content creation, 3-D gaming, media encoding and office productivity.
AMD's initial Athlon 3000+ was supposed to be the comparable CPU to the 3GHz Intel. With the added cache memory, I wonder just how much + the XP was over the 3GHz Intel in comparison. It had a hefty price tag 2 years ago as well. At the time it was selling for $588 to dealers in lots of 1000.


'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 19:29

brobear
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18. December 2005 @ 19:46 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Morph416
If you didn't get lost in all the numbers, you'll notice that the old 2.8 Northwood split some of the test results with the stock XP 3000+. In '03 AMD didn't enjoy a margin of superiority as they do today. You can ask Sophocles how well the Northwood OCs. He did one. Except for updating drives, this PC has remained stock.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 19:46

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18. December 2005 @ 19:56 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Yeah, still had a hefty tag when I bought it. $280 from Newegg.

I'll let you know the diff between boards, it'll be a bit cuz I like to fine tune the drivers, and registry settings.

Have you noticed any realtime diff between riding the 400 bus and the 800? I haven't seen much...though I could be missing something.

I've tried finding me a 3200+, but they want $165 OEM, and $260 for the retail...and since I plan on building an AMD64 X2 this coming year (3800 dual core)...no sense in upping this system anymore.

Reading up on the VIA KT880, it has very similar specs to the nForce 2, but the 8237 SB that goes with it has native serial ATA support, which should give alot better performance all around should I see fit to swapping the drives. However, since the Soyo KT880 Dragon 2 v2 I am getting has 4 separate IDE channels (IDE 1,2,3 and 4), I will be putting each drive on their own channel. Should help alot.

I have had no complaints with this system as far as hardware goes, similar to you!! But, the 32bit era for me is coming to a close.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 20:00

brobear
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18. December 2005 @ 21:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well, 64 bit is the coming thing, but 32 is still with us and little of the 64 bit programing is available. So, I'm in no hurry to do a build right now. 64 bit will be more common before I take the leap. I want to see how the new Vista OS and Blu-Ray and/or HD DVD works out as well.

This PC has an OEM board, so I'm unable to tweak the settings. Another reason it's stayed stock. The board has the 875P chipset, so it supports up to a 3.6GHz CPU and 4 GB or RAM. So, the chipset isn't a bottleneck. The newer processors only have the speed advantage. As I pointed out, the Northwood had some advantages, I don't know why Intel went with the Prescott. Another of those mysteries.

As for SATA, I'm waiting for a new PC. I could adapt what I have, but the improvements wouldn't be that earth shattering. Now if I went to RAID 0. But for now I'm being a CAB. Like you I'm wanting to get a new system, and buying expensive upgrades now would detract from that. Bought a new cycle this year and I'm only allowed so many new toys at once. LOL I'm thinking of upgrading to a Road King Classic. ;)

If I was going to build an X2 now, I'd like to use one of the ASUS boards. This one caught my eye at Newegg. It's a bit pricey, but it has the bells and whistles. If it's going to be a high end CPU, it may as well have a good board. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131568

I was looking at the Soyo board at TigerDirect. That's a decent price on it, $59.99. My favorite board for the X2s are over $200. Hopefully that goes down by the time I get around to getting it.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. December 2005 @ 22:42

AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 03:48 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm using corsair XMS TWINX2048-3200C2. I have hit higher speeds but if I want to keep a command rate of 1T then this is it. Higher speeds require some sacrifice of memory speeds.

first you'll need a screen capture utility, you can get free one here.

HTTP://www.traction-software.co.uk/screengrabpro/


Then you'll need a place to host your images and you can do that here.

HTTP://www.imageshack.us/


Then you'll need to copy the image url and paste it between these.

[img]" border=0>

Image shack's urls include [img] HTML tags its better to copy everything from http:// to the first closing tag" border=0>

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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19. December 2005 @ 05:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
@brobear
Quote:
Now if I went to RAID 0.
I was kinda hoping that you were thinking 10K RPM drives instead of RAID 0. RAID has it's up's and down's, (I have no RAID setup to test) and relying solely on what I have read from MaxPC, and a few other articles, and people posting bench scores from Guru3D....RAID setups have no real performance advantage over a single drive. MaxPC indicated, that even in some games, a RAID setup was actually slower. However, like I said, it does have it's advantages if needed, such as great backup caps...ranging well into the terabyte range now that we have 500g drives available. I wasn't surprised to hear this, seeing as it's logical to think how can one drive perform less then two drives acting as one, when the system has to take 'time' to write to both drives?

Your upgrade board choice is sweet!!! I am going for the one just below that, (A8N-SLI Premium) as I really don't care to dive too far into SLI x16 configs at the moment until prices on vid cards drop significantly. Two cards alone is a whole other computer!!

TigerDirect is where I purchased the Soyo board. And yes, if you're going even for a single, or dual core CPU...the board you're getting should have all the other bells and whistles, as well as rave reviews!!
Quote:
I want to see how the new Vista OS and Blu-Ray and/or HD DVD works out as well.
I am with you on half of that. I've got some good friends that are testing the betas of Vista, and so far haven't heard anything good from it yet. But, it's a beta...just like all the other OSes were once. Hopefully, without too much bogging the system down...Vista might turn out ok.
rugripper
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19. December 2005 @ 06:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
it didnt work trying again

thermaltake tsunami dream case windowed-all aluminium
ENERMAX EGA850EWL GALAXY ATX 12V 850W SLI..sweet huh??
amd64 3700+ san diego 64 bit
corsair 3500LLpros ddr500
evga 7800 gtx 512 mb card

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2005 @ 06:23

AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 07:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Morph416

RAID O works great, how about 10k drives in a RAID.

brobear

The new vista operating system is going to be a drag, it's going to make DVD backups a thing of history.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2005 @ 07:34

rugripper
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19. December 2005 @ 07:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
sata 2 are real good in raid o.....i got the image catcher now how do i paste to this site...help...lmao...peace

update try and put in fileshack i get either:

no pornagraphic material is allowed
or bad file not supported...like wtf...lmao...help

thermaltake tsunami dream case windowed-all aluminium
ENERMAX EGA850EWL GALAXY ATX 12V 850W SLI..sweet huh??
amd64 3700+ san diego 64 bit
corsair 3500LLpros ddr500
evga 7800 gtx 512 mb card

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2005 @ 07:45

AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 08:15 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm thinking keeping with XP for 2006 at least, since there are too many copy protection laws involved, too much system hogging, too much RAM usage and in the first 6 months being microsoft it'll be appallingly buggy, so I'll avoid it until mid 07 probably, when games or software actually use 64-bit and dual-core.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 08:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
sammorris


I don't see anything wrong with sticking with XP Pro for a couple more years. In the meantime I'm building a machine from old parts that I have laying around and I'm going to install Suse linux on it. When I say old parts I mean a Northwood P4 2.8hz CPU overclocked to 3.2 ghz, ASUS P4P800SE board, 2X Corsair CMX512 3200C2. I have an ATI 9500 pro which will do fine since the system is not for gaming, I have a 120 gig western digital and a 80 gig Western digital SATA 150 drive, 430 watt antec power supply ect.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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19. December 2005 @ 10:07 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Which to be quite honest will do just nicely.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 10:16 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
btw soph... your board is almost the same as mine you should be able to get that oc with the 1t....what kind of ram you got?
It's listed with my system specs it's Corsair TWINX2048-3200C2. I have hit speeds above 2.7 but always as a trade off somewhere else. If you go back further in the thread you'll note that 6402 overclocked an X2-3800 to over 2.65 but at the cost of memory performance.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2005 @ 10:17

brobear
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19. December 2005 @ 11:58 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Morph
Sophocles fairly well stated the facts with RAID 0. A set of 10,000 RPM Raptors is the way to go if one can afford it. Except when I want to buy a toy, I can't justify it. ;) On this onld clunker, I'd have to get a card and drives to set up the RAID 0. Then I'd want better memory. Then I'd want to change the CPU. Then I'd want a new mobo so I could tweak the settings... Then... As for the RAID 0, I guess you've been reading the wrong magazines. RAID 0 properly configured is much faster than a single drive, especially for doing video backups. Backups are really CPU and RAM intensive and benefit from the faster handling of files. Sophocles had a setup on one of his systems. He should be able to verify what I'm saying from personal experience.

As for storage, I'm not backing up anything important enough to warrant RAID 1. I'd rather use a couple of 300 GB drives to store 600GB than to have them just mirroring for safety. It's an option on off the shelf PCs now as a safety backup. RAID 0 is also available on top end PCs. It's amazing what's become available from retail the last couple of years. Before those configurations were pretty much in the custom arena.

After the holidays, I may (empahasis on the may) uggrade my current system. The options are a custom board and a new CPU. As Sophocles pointed out, the 2.8 Northwood is becoming dated, though it was one of Intel's better P4s. The other option is just a CPU, as the OEM board has a good chipset in the Intel 875P. The only advantage of the custom board would be for tweaking the settings, but that wouldn't be much of an advantage unless I changed the memory. The only way I could see upping this old system would be to give it a faster processor and save the bucks for later. PCs can become like a black hole if a person doesn't watch out. ;)

I noticed more talk about the new Vista OS. Obviously it's a done deal. The codename used to be Longhorn. Now they've named it and the reasons for the system are becoming apparent. It's not all good for the consumer either. From what I've learned, this thing is a big RAM suckin hawg. Guess Sophocles is seeing some of the same Inof. As he said, it's going to interfere with the users rights, or perceived rights, to use their PC the way they see fit. It will hamper the way backups are done for one. In some cases it will even affect the choice of equipment. The choices will be narrowed and focused on more highend merchandise. More money for the industry? Sammoris said a mouthful. Even if I get a new PC, I suspect I'll still have this one pinned together running XP for some time to come.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -
AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 12:04 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Yep. XP for now, and I'm also all for RAID0.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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19. December 2005 @ 12:16 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
As Sophocles pointed out, the 2.8 Northwood is becoming dated, though it was one of Intel's better P4s.
Nothing that a little liquid nitrogen and a major overclock can't overcome. LOL



"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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AfterDawn Addict

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19. December 2005 @ 12:36 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
wasn't the 2800 one of the N2l project bases?



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
brobear
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19. December 2005 @ 12:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Text below is a screenshot:

______________________________________



______________________________________

This text is live:
Of necessity, I used a capture while writing about tags or those tags would have been active. Sort of what happened to Sophocles explanation.

Here's the AD tag and syntax exampless: (below is a screenshot)

______________________________________



______________________________________

Live text again:
Here's the 2 pages from http://www.imageshack.us : (check this out for your hosting, it's simlpe.) (Screenshots below)

_______________________________________



_______________________________________


_______________________________________

Live text:
To give you an idea, here is the text that created this entire message with the screenshots. (Screenshot below.)

________________________________________



'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2005 @ 13:52

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brobear
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19. December 2005 @ 12:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Rugripper
That's the explanation with examples, if you have problems after that, hopefully it is just with the software. Ask Sophocles. LOL I'm going to be busy digging out my canister of liquid nitrogen and fending off frostbite. ;) Looking forward to seeing those benches. they sound interesting.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -
This thread is closed and therefore you are not allowed reply to this thread.
 
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