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Intel P4 vs AMD
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. March 2006 @ 10:43 |
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Looks dead on in that screenshot to me!
My stock XP 3000+ fluctuates slightly between 2165 and 2166mhz, so it's not just a process of overclocking.
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brobear
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26. March 2006 @ 10:58 |
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Maybe not, but when you move into the OC range, the same settings that affect frequency variation are usually tied in to OC(ing) as well.
Screen captures are static, so a person isn't going to see any variation if it is occurring in real time. The Bus speed appears to be locked, but the CPU frequency varies a bit, which means something is changing. I suspect a slight power fluctuation could account for minute differences.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. March 2006 @ 11:01
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. March 2006 @ 11:52 |
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No I know screen captures are static, or at least that one is, but my point was that at the time you took the photo it was EXACTLY 3570.00mhz
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brobear
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26. March 2006 @ 19:08 |
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;) Hadn't paid attention to that as it doesn't EXACTLY stay on that figure. Just a coincidence.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. March 2006 @ 20:06 |
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Had a flashback today. I built a "Brand New" AMD K6-2/500 on a "Brand New" S7-MVP3 motherboard. Needed one for my neighbor's kids as their P-90 died! I installed 98 first and then up-graded to 2000 and Service Pack 4. Runs good! Both the CPU and MB were in their original boxes and had never been opened!
I would have posted some benchmarks (Ha! Ha!) but Sandra won't run on 2000. It was fun trying to figure out the jumper settings but I managed! It was fun and very retro. Like a step back in time. It's all done and delivered, so back to the real world!
Does anyone know anything about the "Pressler" Dual Core.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116237
What does it equate to in an AMD Dual Core? This one is a 2.8/800!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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26. March 2006 @ 22:36 |
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I don't knowe what happened I must have hit the copy and paste button once too much... am sorry!
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2006 @ 19:57
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. March 2006 @ 13:51 |
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baltekmi,
what are u doing!!!
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brobear
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27. March 2006 @ 14:14 |
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lol Looks like he went off the deep end. ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. March 2006 @ 16:06 |
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Brobear.
Quote:
lol Looks like he went off the deep end. ;)
Yup, and landed on his head! I think his copy button malfunctioned!
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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vspede
Junior Member
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27. March 2006 @ 19:13 |
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This was mentioned a while back, I think about 40 posts back about prices of AMD Dual Cores being expensive. Actually it looks like theres a sale going on now for AMD Dual Cores.
Dell Small Biz Software & Peripherals has 20% off most accessories including AMD Athlon Retail box processors with code: GTGWZ082MG4KW4 Exp 3/29 or sooner - Search for Athlon - Click on Software & Peripherals tab - Tax is charged. (Thanks Haroon)
Athlon 64 3500+ $164.45 shipped free
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core $256.46 shipped free
Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Dual Core $464.96 shipped free
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Dual Core $622.46 shipped free
Athlon 64 FX-57 $704.81
Email Deal Similar Deals
This is on Techbargains.com
What sucks is 2 months ago I bought a AMD 64 3700+ San Diego for 225. For 25 bucks more I coulda bought a Dual Core.
I used to run a P4p800 P4 2.2 Gig but when I switched over to AMD the graphics were 100x better. Although mutli tasking is a bit slow.
Anyone have luck with the AI Booster the programs that come with Asus Boards? I have one and I don't get how to use it, lol.
Friends will help you move.
Real Friends will help you move the bodies...
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. March 2006 @ 20:00 |
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vspede,
Essentially, the AI Booster sets some of the Bios settings through software using the Windows interface. I tried it but I didn't like it as much as going into the bios and making my changes permanent. The only real use I could find for it was if you had the need??? for different fsb speeds I have a P4P800SE with a 3.0/800/HT, and I find the amount of adjustments available on this MB to be very good for over-clocking. I run a 960 Mhz frontside bus which gives me a 20% OC at 3.60. On a par with Brobear's 3.4 Northwood oc'd 5% on the same type MB. My memory timings are 2 2 2 5, and it runs very well. Some people in this forum say this gain is for free. Well free or not, it's not cheap to make it happen. $85 for a quality 480 watt power supply! $75 for a top performing CPU cooler! $268 for 2 GB of quality memory. I could have used that money for a faster CPU and maybe been better off. Then again, look at all the fun I would have missed!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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27. March 2006 @ 20:07 |
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Quote:
there is a reason why amd's cost less than p4's
And what is the answer to this question? really?
Sorry about that stupid post.
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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brobear
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27. March 2006 @ 21:26 |
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vspede
;) Theonejrs was right about investing in a better CPU. Since one has to have a CPU for things to work, you can deduct the cost of that against the price of a better one. When you do the math correctly, moving up to a 3.4GHz Northwood nowadays is dirt cheap performance wise.
Starmicro sells the 3.0 Prescott for $165 US and the P4 3.4GHz Northwood for $265. That's only $100 for all the extra performance, as well as quality. At 3.57GHz (5% OC) the Northwood easily outperforms the OC(ed) 3.0 Prescott running at 3.6GHz. In fact the 3.4 Northwood outperforms the 3.8GHz P4s at their stock settings. And that's all running on a 170W PSU that I'd fry if I tried to pull too much from it. (A new PSU is on the way, I got a bad one out of the box that had to be replaced temporarily with a used one on hand.) Scubabud with a decent PSU and a similar setup has his Northwood cranked up to 10% at 3.7GHz. There's no reason why mine shouldn't attain the same with decent power. So, for that $165 dollars, a person gets a lot more bang for the buck and just as much fun turning it up. These $265 CPUs OC(ed) are comparable to the $700 to $800 FX-55 and 57 AMD processors (though they can be OC(ed) as well, a person is paying to start high end).
You mentioned graphics. With the ATI Radeon X850 Pro running on my system, I have all the graphics power I need. I can't imagine anything being 100% better. If it gets a lot better, then you're looking at PCIe and the dual GPUs. There you're paying almost enough to build another PC for some top end setups. I don't even have the top end AGP graphics card either. For another $100 or so I could have done better. I person has to draw the line somewhere though.
Just think. For $165 US theonejrs could have had a superior system that he could have OC(ed) to even higher levels with superior performance and had bragging rights for a single core processor along the lines with Scubabud's system. Now he's waiting for a dual core to try to compete with Sophocles. Now he'd have to spring for that full $265 to get the 3.4 Northwood performance. Then he could try to sell that Prescott to see what he could get out of it (in order to help defray costs). Since Northwoods are becoming rare, he might actually sell it. ;) The Northwoods are old tech, but for a single core, it's fun to play with and a lot of performance for the money invested.
For about $365 dollars (mobo and CPU) I have a custom that can be easily upgraded to a dual core system for the price of another mobo, GPU, and CPU. That $365 is just the cost of the parts I have to replace, not total cost, plus I have a use for those parts elsewhere. So, when I get some bucks to expand, I'll be able to give the kids a good PC as a gift and keep a 3.4GHz system as a backup while upgrading to dual core. That's a lot of fun playing around with the parts, plus the kids get a good gift in the mix. Gotta have somewhere to send those old puters. ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2006 @ 21:32
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27. March 2006 @ 21:40 |
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brobear
You know, to make a long story short, i built a computer for my wife.
We use the same IC7-G ABIT MOBO. she has the 3.06 533 fsb... I have the 3.2 prescott 800fsb. using DVD X COPY WITH ANY DVD on both computers. I decode about 30 seconds faster from start to finish. But games are another thing!!! i am playing godfather.. really cool.
I think I need to bench her computer.. but I can never get on hers!!!lol
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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Member
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27. March 2006 @ 21:42 |
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I still think the kentsfield will bring intell out of the basement. I guess we shall wait to see.
p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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27. March 2006 @ 22:08 |
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The proof's in the pudding. I'll wait for decent results to be convinced on this one.
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brobear
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27. March 2006 @ 22:18 |
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To paraphrase Sophocles, when I get ready to build, I'll use the best CPU available at the time (that I can afford). I don't care if it's Intel, AMD, or another. I don't see the "another" in the mix though. ;) Intel was in the lead only a few years ago, not far behind now, and has the bucks to buy their way back to the top. It's all about bragging rights and market shares. So, if we're lucky, we'll see all the nice competition continue for the longest. The winner at the time I go to buy is the one that gets my money.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. March 2006 @ 22:18
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brobear
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27. March 2006 @ 22:30 |
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baltekmi
Quote:
We use the same IC7-G ABIT MOBO. she has the 3.06 533 fsb... I have the 3.2 prescott 800fsb
To each his own, but I still don't see why people are using those when the 800MHz FSB Northwoods were (and are) available. 0.14GHz isn't a lot of difference in processing power, even with the difference in FSB speed. As you noted, you only notice a change in gaming. Were you to pick up about 400MHz with the better architecture of the Northwood, you would notice some impressive time differences when doing things like encoding movies with RB. Gaming would probably be noticably better as well, but you'd note improvements with just improved CPU speeds. As I said, to each his own. It's all about personal preference and what catches a person's attention when they go to buy.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. March 2006 @ 01:43 |
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Should improve memory benches though shouldn't it?
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brobear
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28. March 2006 @ 03:23 |
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Yes.
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vspede
Junior Member
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28. March 2006 @ 17:24 |
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Yea, sadly I'm stuck with AI Booster. I'm actually to scared to try to overclock my computer any other way. The last 2 computers I had both blew out. 1 was an HP, the other I built. I fault that to heat/airflow but they made me scared lol. I tried looking up how to overclock but directions are very broad and general. I wouldn't want to mess up my pc when its only 3 months old.
Anyways, P4 CPU's at high speeds are definitely coming to be cheaper, but here is the thing, most of them are for boards that are becoming outdated. Or I believe they are becoming outdated or phasing out. Like a P4 3.2 will be for a 478 socket board which I was told was being phased out. Hence I went with an AMD 64 3700+ which is a socket 939 board which is relatively newer and more compatible. I wasn't disappointed since I could pick up more features on the newer motherboards like gigabyte lan, etc.
Plus Prescott's run very hot. I remember on my old P4 was a prescott and that thing ran to past 100C when it was going full load. That was partly due to a broken clip on my cpu fan (lol) but I had to buy another cpufan (artic cooler) which helped fine. But if it was running that hot, I know it was running hot with my old stock fan. But the new Artic Cooler Fan brought the temp down to 60C under full load. The trade off was that the fan was freakin huge.
Friends will help you move.
Real Friends will help you move the bodies...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. March 2006 @ 17:26
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. March 2006 @ 19:07 |
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vsepde,
Take your que from me and start reading this thread from the begining! There is a treasure trove of knowlege in this thread. Feel free to ask quesions of any or all the members. Before I joined AD, I had done one very mild over-clock on a P-166. I upped it to 185 and it started acting flakey so I went back to stock and never OC'd again until my present build. I've learned a lot, as you can see by my sig. Everyone here helped me get it to this point. They are a great bunch of people. Not very many threads in any forum ever get to 100+ pages. and this one is still going strong.
Another word of advice! When you do make changes in the bios (and you eventually will), make small changes. If it runs O.K., live with these settings for a little while before making more changes. Learn what the changes you make do to the way your computer runs. Run the benchmarks and you will learn what is going on inside it. Once you grasp all of this it's a lot easier to know what to change to make improvements. If I had OC'd this machine 20% "right out of the box", it wouldn't even have booted (I know, I tried!). Trust me when I say that over-clocking is much more than just upping the CPU frequency. I can now run mine as fast as 3.70 but It gives me glitches when encoding. If I back it down to 3.60, it never creates a coaster. Temps are no longer a problem thanks to a Zalman 9500 cooler.
This forum has been good to me and I can assure you that it will be good to you as well. Stay with it long enough and you will learn enough to make your computer run a whole lot better without the danger of hurting anything. Most important, don't be afraid to ask questions. These folks will help you, and that's a promise!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. March 2006 @ 19:08
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vspede
Junior Member
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28. March 2006 @ 19:32 |
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Yea definitely. I love this place. I'm actually learned a whole lot just reading the forums. This forum and the TV forum are the ones I usually love to inhabit.
Hopefully I'll learn a lot more. Btw, I have a Zalman CPU Fan too with blue LED. Don't you love it? But I was so suprised to see how heavy that thing was, wow. Yours heavy too?
System
Asus A8N-SLI
AMD 64 3700+ San Diego w/1 MB Cache
1 Gig Corsair Valueselect Memory
600 Watt EchoStar PSU
I/O Magic DVD Dual Layer Burner x16
Geforce 6600 GT PCI-E x16
Friends will help you move.
Real Friends will help you move the bodies...
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brobear
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28. March 2006 @ 22:10 |
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vspede
Quote:
I remember on my old P4 was a prescott and that thing ran to past 100C when it was going full load... But the new Artic Cooler Fan brought the temp down to 60C under full load.
40C = 103.9F
60C = 139.9F
100C = 211.9F
Looking at the numbers, it makes me wonder what was making those temps go ballistic. 100C looks like a malfunction and little thermal paste with no cooler. Once you see the smoke, you're supposed to shut down and do the repairs. You're talking hot enough to boil water. The metal would have been hot enough to start melting the plastic insulation. No wonder the PC melted down. What happened to the thermal shutdown?
Not all P4s were Prescotts, though the move was to the faster clock speed Prescotts. Scubabud and I are using Northwoods. 40C is what mine runs at under load for a few hours of encoding. It varies from 40-42C. That's 20C cooler than what you encountered with your Prescott with the better FHS. I'm using a Zalman on my system, but the temps weren't drastically higher before. I've seen AMDs run hotter. So, Intel could have stayed with a cooler running CPU, they just took the easy way out and for sales moved with the higher numbers. People were buying into the hype of larger numbers (even AMD went with it for a while). Now Intel realizes they "shot their foot" on that one. The older Northwoods are cool running and OC(ing) doesn't cause heating problems. If you fry the system, it would have to be from going beyond component spec limits.
The Zalman 9500 is actually a bit lighter than the 7700. The hollow heat tubes are ligher than the solid, finned heatsinks. They're a bit heavy and there's a warning about moving the PCs around. In other words, drop the PC and the FHS may drop off the mobo. Great coolers though. So, with some common sense there's no problems.
At this point in time, you may notice that the Prescott has a rep for running hot. After reading most of what's in the thread (I've been around for a while), I'm glad luck led me away from that processor. After that initial stroke of luck, I found out and the last P4 I purchased was intentionally the Northwood. I have Sophocles to thank for pointing out some of the differences in the Intel processors. One of his past builds was a Northwood. That's older tech now, but still a formidable CPU as far as single cores go.
There's good audio and graphics cards for the older Socket 478 systems; so they're not that far behind. Unless one is into extreme gaming, a 478 system will do what it's called on to do. They're good single core systems. Naturally the newer boards with twin GPUs and more updated chipsets are going to perform better. Surprisingly though, if the newer system isn't using a CPU and mobo that's optimized, the older systems can do better, as shown by some of the bench tests shown in this thread.
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vspede
Junior Member
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29. March 2006 @ 11:54 |
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Yea, currently my new pc runs at 37C and tops out at 43C at full load.
My old PC, the one that went up to 100C had the cpu fan hanging off LOL. I didn't know so I had to buy a new one. The new one worked well but than something happened and the PC Died. I'm almost positivie it was the motherboard.
I'm still a big fan of the AMD though since I've liked it better than my old P4, I just wish I had better ram. I have Corsair Valueselect and from what I've been reading if your ram is bad, than you can't really overclock that high. Oddly enough, RAM seems to be the only weak point of my computer. Everything else is brand new and pretty decent.
Friends will help you move.
Real Friends will help you move the bodies...
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