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Intel P4 vs AMD
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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23. April 2006 @ 01:35 |
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Quote:
AMD has just gotten to play the "hare" for a while.
In a sense, the low mhz, high performance that AMD opts for is the tortoise, with Intel being the high mhz low performance hare. But when Conroe arrives, it'll be a race between two tortoises. Two incredibly fast tortoises at that!
Quote:
That 6600 video card is a generic, no name brand with an nVidia chipset. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole as the quality of the other parts would be questionable. At that price, quality would have to be very suspect. Even BenQs cost more and I've heard a lot of complaints about them!
BenQ are one of my "don't touch with a bargepole" companies. I've had two CD-RW drives of theirs fail within two months. That shows their quality, and since Acer is the same company, the same applies for them (the first drive was acer, the warranty replacement a Benq but the drive was exactly the same, it even looked the same).
But yes, avoid low cost GPUs, you've no idea how competent the construction was (although I might add a Powercolor X800GTO my mate arvinf bought had a colossal amount of thermal paste applied to it, far more than needed).
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I must be drinking the wrong stuff. The drive in question is a Quantum Fireball 4.3 GB. Not a Seagate. I swear I have dyslexia of the eyes!!!
We're harking back to oldskool now, that's a name I haven't heard for a while. In fact, that's about the oldest PC name I knew, because prior to that area, I barely knew what a computer was.
I suppose you can weigh up the pros and cons of me being younger than most:
+: Get to see more new technology
-: More years under DRM.
Hmmm, I'd better think about that one carefully!
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vspede
Junior Member
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23. April 2006 @ 02:35 |
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The website was down yesterday but its back up now. I checked the links and they work. Here they are again.
CPU Overclocker Section
http://www.computerforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7
And heres the thread where the guy totally helped me. I have the same username there too.
http://www.computerforum.com/showthread.php?t=42551&page=3
Also another cool program for AMD users (since it seems like everyone loves them) is CBID or Central Brain Identifier. Google either one and you'll find it. I find it 10x better than CPU-Z.
It detected your CPu and gives you a crapload of information on it. Also if you OC your CPU like I did, it'll roughly tell you how much you improved your CPU in comparison to another.
For example My AMD 64 3700+ was OC from 2.2 to 2.75 GHZ. And I did the ram too, etc etc. SO CBID says my CPU works like an
AMD 64 4525+. Of course that processor doesn't exist but you kinda get the idea of how much power your getting out of it. That it'll let you also tweak some stuff out of it too if you want to, but make sure you know what your doing first :-)
Friends will help you move.
Real Friends will help you move the bodies...
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brobear
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23. April 2006 @ 03:58 |
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sammorris
LOL At least you caught the "hare" analogy. It was about the competition between AMD and Intel on the market, not about the speed of the particular processors. Intel ran away with the market for the longest, being the "hare". Over the past couple of years, AMD has been beating Intel on development and increase in market share, becoming the leader in CPU development and going out front in the race, thus being the current "hare". Nothing to do with processor speeds.
I didn't want to use "Tortoise and the Hare" because the race goes on and the Tortoise only won in the end. Your take reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he disguises himself as a tortoise. ;) The hare mimics the tortoise, which is what Intel is doing if you look at the Conroe and other projects going on at Intel.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. April 2006 @ 04:07
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 04:07 |
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Yep I'm well aware of that brobear and tried to state so, I was offering an alternative use of the metaphor.
vspede, I still don't fully see why the system becomes unstable above 1000mhz FSB.
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brobear
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23. April 2006 @ 04:12 |
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If you say so, I was referring to the companies movement in the marketplace and you were discussing their products. Similar on the metaphor, but different usage.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 04:17 |
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Yes, and I recognise both!
Back on topic!
What advantages does CBID have over CPU-Z?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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23. April 2006 @ 04:24 |
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Theonejrs
Quote:
Jumpers: Quantum Fireball lct 08 4.3 GB AT Hard Disk Drive User's Guide
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. April 2006 @ 04:25
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 04:37 |
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Regarding Intel and AMD
The article that I posted was focussed mostly on Dell and the small increase that was mentioned was achieved by Dell not Intel. Intel isn't gaining any market share at all in fact it lost ponts while AMD gained points. Here's a quote from an article'
Quote:
Intel's share of the U.S. retail PC market fell by 11 percentage points, from 64.4 percent in the fourth quarter of 2004 to 53.3 percent, said Sam Bhavnani, a senior analyst at Current Analysis. Current Analysis' market share numbers measure U.S. retail sales only, and therefore exclude figures from Dell, which uses its Web site to sell directly to consumers. Dell, the top PC vendor in the U.S., exclusively uses Intel's processors in its PCs. (Sales by online retailers were excluded from the market share analysis as well).
Sales of Intel-based desktop PCs fell 22.3 percent during the fourth quarter, according to Current Analysis. As a result, sales of AMD-based desktops took the lead during the pivotal fourth-quarter holiday shopping season. AMD chips were found in 52.5 percent of desktop PCs sold in U.S. retail stores during that period.
Intel is losing its monopoly fast. Even if Intel makes a bit of a comeback with faster cores, the damage is done and AMD will continue to increase its market share.
http://news.com.com/AMD+market+share+soars+in+PCs/2100-1003_3-602...
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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brobear
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23. April 2006 @ 04:39 |
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sammorriss
Quote:
Yes, and I recognise both!
Back on topic!
What advantages does CBID have over CPU-Z?
As do I. ;) Getting back on topic, I remember the Russian site from an earlier discussion about CBID that has the AMD club and the CBID was hosted there.
CBID (Central Brain Identifier) is specific for AMD. CBID is no good with Intel. CPUZ works with both. Here's the link and info as they pimp CBID.
http://cbid.amdclub.ru/
Central Brain Identifier is designed to provide detailed identification and obtaining the most complete information on all AMD processors. It recognizes more than 50 various models of the AMD processors. It shows not only the general information about the processor, but also allows to determine its important technical features, such as processor core name, core revision, a nominal processor frequency, the date of announce, an OPN number, the components of the PowerNow! Technology and also independently computes an XP-Rating for processors having a Model Number. The program is capable to detect the core voltage of mobile AMD processors and the newest AMD Athlon 64 processor. Advanced recognition methods can accurately determine mobile, desktop and server variants of the AMD processors. The power diagnostic capabilities provide the most complete information about the processor cache. The program incorporates tweak features such as processor name modification, L1 Cache ECC control and Clock Control Register correction and DRAM timing control. Central Brain Identifier is aggressively aimed to compete with well-known processor diagnostic tools.
The benefits and unique advantages of CBId are the following:
Complete and precise identification of the AMD processors.
P-rating calculation and OPN determination.
The real-time CPU frequency, voltage and temperature monitoring.
An entering the processor the low power state of Stop Grant.
On the fly FID/VID transition for mobile AMD processors.
Performance state tables searching and decoding.
DRAM timing configuration of a huge number of chipsets.
An ability to change the feature bits of the processor.
Quick CPU name string modification.
FSB/DRAM frequency control for nForce2 chipset on the fly.
An advanced tuning of VIA V-Link bus speed parameters.
An enhanced set of tweaks to optimize DRAM performance on nForce2 chipset.
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brobear
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23. April 2006 @ 05:10 |
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Sophocles
Quote:
... The question here is, why has Dell computers dropped in sales when the market as a whole went up? Just follow the link for the answer.
http://news.com.com/PC+shipments+up%2C+but+Dell+loses+ground/2100...
I realize the article was about Dell. But one can't talk about Dell without mentioning Intel, which is Dell's sole major supplier for the production CPUs. I merely pointed out Dell hasn't lost anything in sales except the percentage of growth in the current market. The question you posed was a bit misleading due to the "Dell computers dropped in sales". Had you put in "percentage of sales", I wouldn't have disagreed. The answer is simple, there's now competition that wasn't there before. Dell still holds the lion's share of the market, though the competition is eroding that as you pointed out.
It's only normal when decent competition enters a market that a company that enjoyed a position as the sole major supplier will start losing part to the competitors. The key word is competition. That goes for Intel and AMD. How long has Intel been king in the PC market and how long has AMD been with us; then add how long has AMD been truly competitive with Intel on the PC market? Discussing current market share increases is misleading if one doesn't look at the past. As long as overall sales don't decrease, then Intel isn't hurting, though the profits that were projected may suffer due to the incursion of AMD into the market. It's a healthy market and I don't see either company really hurting. If AMD starts eroding Intels share to where actual sales start to decrease, not just sales percentages, then they will have hit them where it truly hurts.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. April 2006 @ 05:14
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sytyguy
Senior Member
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23. April 2006 @ 05:45 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by vspede:
Also another cool program for AMD users (since it seems like everyone loves them) is CBID or Central Brain Identifier.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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23. April 2006 @ 07:17 |
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I realize the article was about Dell. But one can't talk about Dell without mentioning Intel, which is Dell's sole major supplier for the production CPUs.
I agreed but I was responding to the quote below.
Quote:
but Intel is still growing and maintains a huge share of the market
While Intel does still hold a huge share of the market they are in fact experiencing negative growth in a time when the PC market as a whole has increased by more than 13%. What wasn't mentioned in that article was that AMD is actually experiencing even faster growth in the server market. IBM, Oracle, and Microsoft just to name a few have announced their intentions to use Opteron based servers. The only area where I still see Intel out in front it in small hand held devices such as PDA's and Donald's new cell phone, and notebooks/laptops. If I were to buy a laptop I would probably go for one with a Pentium M in it. I just built a system using a Sempron and I hope to never build another again. In my defense I didn't order or choose the parts, I only assembled them.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. April 2006 @ 08:59
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64026402
Senior Member
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23. April 2006 @ 08:01 |
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Intel is hurting worse than you might think. The mass of the company depends upon their dominance in the PC sector. That has been pretty much shot to hell. To survive they will likely increase their anti-competitive practices to try and put other companies like AMD under.
AMD is growing fast. Maybe to fast. They are vulnerable to such an attack. They lack the resources for a head to head price war.
Intel can give their processors away for free until AMD goes out of business.
I want competition but I don't want to loose any companies to corporate terrorism.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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23. April 2006 @ 09:01 |
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Quote:
Sales of Intel-based desktop PCs fell 22.3 percent during the fourth quarter, according to Current Analysis. As a result, sales of AMD-based desktops took the lead during the pivotal fourth-quarter holiday shopping season. AMD chips were found in 52.5 percent of desktop PCs sold in U.S. retail stores during that period.
That's astonishing, I never would have thought it that much, even without Online sales involved.
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I just built a system using a Sempron and I hope to never build another again.
Why? The 64-bit semprons are pretty good!
Quote:
AMD is growing fast. Maybe to fast. They are vulnerable to such an attack. They lack the resources for a head to head price war.
Intel can give their processors away for free until AMD goes out of business.
Isn't that predatory pricing and illegal?
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 09:08 |
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64026402
I have a feeling that AMD has had their future designs already finished and ready to go before they even released the last batch of processors. This could even be a ploy to force Intel into a war that would cause Intel to use up their capital fighting a temporary losing battle at the same time that AMD gained market share. If AMD manages to trump Intel again in 2007 they will gain enough market share to go one on one with Intel for some time. But as you've noted Intel could resort to predatory business practices that could hurt AMD.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 09:09 |
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Sounds good, but face it, who's more likely to bust the other up with below-the-belt business practices? I think we all know the answer to that one...
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 09:10 |
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Why? The 64-bit semprons are pretty good
Have you built one yet? I thought that it was at best a lackluster result.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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aabbccdd
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23. April 2006 @ 09:36 |
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sammorris .lots of members swear by the BenQ drives iam surprised you had trouble with them ive never used them so i dont know for sure. Plextor is away the best choice and Lite-On.
if Intel trys to play that game with AMD we must boycott there product!!! trying to highjack another company to get there market share up is corporate terrorism!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 09:53 |
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sammoris
I think that I'm being a little too critical and I am perhaps comparing it to one of my three PC's which are all faster and since I use my dual core the most, that's the standard I'm used to. I should be comparing the Semprom to a Celeron which I'm certain that it would easily beat.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. April 2006 @ 11:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 10:06 |
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That's a bit more fair, slow though the semprons are, they're good at what they do.
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ScubaBud
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23. April 2006 @ 11:06 |
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@theonejrs
Quote:
I must be drinking the wrong stuff. The drive in question is a Quantum Fireball 4.3 GB. Not a Seagate. I swear I have dyslexia of the eyes!!!
Actually it sounds like you?re drinking the Right Stuff!!! LOL
@aabbccdd
I have three Burners, one of which is a BenQ1640 that I?ve had for several months. The burns are great based on Nero CD-DVD disk quality tests and I have no complaints. :)
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23. April 2006 @ 11:07 |
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aabbccdd,
Quote:
trying to highjack another company to get there market share up is corporate terrorism!!!
For a long time now America is built on "corporate terrorism"!
Witness the automotive industry and how many companies have disappeared. American Motors comes to mind. The Rambler American was a better car than the Ford Falcon! Hell, the original Falcon 4 door would spring the back doors open going over a railroad crossing. The Rambler had the better engine and better Unibody construction. Ford just priced them right out of business.
Hopefully, there are enough knowlegeable and smarter people around today when it comes to computers to put a severe crimp in any plans Intel might have for trying to put them under. Today you don't ever hear coments like "well, it's an AMD, what do you expect"! I agree with Sophocles when he said: Quote:
I have a feeling that AMD has had their future designs already finished and ready to go before they even released the last batch of processors.
Look at their jump from the 64 to the 64x2. That was a major leap that Intel was not prepared for. I don't doubt that Intel will get their "Conroe" working well enough to compete but I think that AMD is ready and waiting for just that time!
My present computer is the first Intel I've built in about 10 years. If I had been smart I would have done some real resaerch before I built it. I'm not unhappy with it, but it cost a few bucks to make it run like it does. That's money I wouldn't have had to spend if I had done my homework. Had I done that, I would have gone AMD. What's that commercial? "I could of had a V8"!!!
By the way, Sophocles. Thanks for the Quantum information!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 11:18 |
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Quote:
Look at their jump from the 64 to the 64x2. That was a major leap that Intel was not prepared for. I don't doubt that Intel will get their "Conroe" working well enough to compete but I think that AMD is ready and waiting for just that time!
Too damn right, it won't be far off a year after the launch of Windsor before Conroe gets fully up and running. Consider, it's barely been about a year since the Manchester and Toledo were launched. Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
AMD aren't going to be sitting on their chuff, them being pro-active is what has got them this far. I wouldn't mind betting AMD's next idea will be out within much of the Conroe, to confirm without a shadow of a doubt who's boss. People have got to notice something then!
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 12:21 |
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sammorris,
Amen to that! I think that AMD not only built a better mousetrap but also have an even better one in the wings just waiting to blow the Conroe into the weeds! By the way, that old (1999) Athlon XP 2500 I just put together is way faster than the Sempron 2500. I borrowed the Sempron and installed it to find out. I would like to know why AMD did that??? I will say that the Sempron does run much cooler but it is slow by comparisum! A good test of the whole integrated everything was to install the 3D Aquarium screen saver. It runs smooth as glass on the Athlon while it stumbles a little bit with the Sempron. Both motherboards being the same made the comparisum fair. It turned out to be a very nice computer and a good birthday present. My housemates daughter should be very happy with it.
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. April 2006 @ 12:25
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. April 2006 @ 12:24 |
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Hey, at least AMD only did it once, intel three times. But Athlon XP was the higher end processor before (no way is that CPU 1999, we hadn't got to 1ghz by then), the Duron was the cheap option. The Duron was then removed and a slower version of the Athlon XP became the low-end, behind the new Athlon64.
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