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Intel vs. AMD
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crowy
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13. March 2007 @ 00:23 |
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Bigdk,
Intel will run 1T timing with 4 sticks.
Amd will revert to 2T timing with 4 sticks.
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein |
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13. March 2007 @ 00:53 |
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BigDK,
Quote:
Normally 2 sticks is faster, as having 4 will mean you will have to use 2T instead of 1T and the latencies increase, so not sure where you're getting your info.
I've always been of the understanding that for 2GB DDR400, 4x512 is better, something about how the memory controller works the memory. I've heard this from many people both you and I respect on this forum. I know it certainly seemed true for SDRAM and RamBus. The biggest single improvement on my Dell 420 Workstation (other than going from Dual P3 733/256s to Dual P3 1GHz/512 CPUs) was to take out the 2 1GHz sticks of Rambus and replace them with 4 512MB sticks of Rambus. It ran about 85% of the speed of my 3.0/800 P4. That's why I keep it. It's a very fast machine with a full serverboard and 10,000rpm scsi drives. If the video could have been updated (AGPx4) I probably wouldn't have even built the P4. It was way faster than any other P3 I ever saw. It should have been for it's 2002 $4997 price tag (including 19" CRT Monitor, keyboard and mouse)! I tried copying a DVD with Shrink and it did it faster than my original Dell 3000 that had a 2.8/533 in it. Under 20 minutes vs 33 min. for the 2.8 P4! That's the reason I bought the P4!
Maybe I just misunderstood what they were explaining. I'll try and find the post if I can as it's been a while. I've done some looking on the net but the reports are conflicting. Some say 4x512 runs more stable and others say the same thing for 2x1GB. Not much help!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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13. March 2007 @ 03:50 |
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8500gt
bit better performance than a 7600gs but with dx10.
from what i have seen nvidia is going to be classing them as;
gtx
gt
gts
gs
but as you all know rumors are just that till proven true(or not?).
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15 product reviews
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13. March 2007 @ 15:23 |
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If the pricing is right the nVidia 8 series is going to be a solid competitor on all levels.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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PacMan777
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14. March 2007 @ 04:14 |
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Quote:
BigDK,
[quote]Normally 2 sticks is faster, as having 4 will mean you will have to use 2T instead of 1T and the latencies increase, so not sure where you're getting your info.
Quote:
I've always been of the understanding that for 2GB DDR400, 4x512 is better, something about how the memory controller works the memory. I've heard this from many people both you and I respect on this forum. I know it certainly seemed true for SDRAM and RamBus. The biggest single improvement on my Dell 420 Workstation (other than going from Dual P3 733/256s to Dual P3 1GHz/512 CPUs) was to take out the 2 1GHz sticks of Rambus and replace them with 4 512MB sticks of Rambus. It ran about 85% of the speed of my 3.0/800 P4. That's why I keep it. It's a very fast machine with a full serverboard and 10,000rpm scsi drives. If the video could have been updated (AGPx4) I probably wouldn't have even built the P4. It was way faster than any other P3 I ever saw. It should have been for it's 2002 $4997 price tag (including 19" CRT Monitor, keyboard and mouse)! I tried copying a DVD with Shrink and it did it faster than my original Dell 3000 that had a 2.8/533 in it. Under 20 minutes vs 33 min. for the 2.8 P4! That's the reason I bought the P4!
Maybe I just misunderstood what they were explaining. I'll try and find the post if I can as it's been a while. I've done some looking on the net but the reports are conflicting. Some say 4x512 runs more stable and others say the same thing for 2x1GB. Not much help!
Happy Computering,
theone
It used to be common knowledge that 2x512MB sticks were faster than 2x1GB of the same RAM. That's why in OCing the smaller sticks were preferred for bench racing. However the utility of the larger capacity won out in the real world. Nowadays with the faster 1GB RAM the 512MB has little to no advantage. Like Big DK, I'm wondering where you're getting your info. Could you supply us with your sources? If it's from members we know and respect, they can disclose their source of info. So who were you referring to?
Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2560&p=14 :
... Last, we will try to answer the question again about whether two 1GB or four 512MB DIMMs are the better choice for Athlon 64 DDR memory. If you plan to install 4GB of memory or upgrade to 4GB in the near future, then 1GB DIMMs are your only choice and we recommend the faster DIMMs like the 3 tested here - they cost about the same as slower 1GB DIMMs. If your choice in memory is flexible, there's no doubt that fast 1GB DIMMs like the three tested here remove the complaint that 1GB DIMMs are slower and will compromise performance compared to fast 512MB DIMMs. The 1GB DIMMs are, however, a bit more costly - though the prices have been dropping rapidly. If the 2GB kits fit your budget, then by all means, go for one of the fast 2GB kits like these from Corsair, Gigaram, and OCZ. If the price is a big concern, then carefully compare prices of some of four fast 512MB modules to two 1GB DIMMs and buy what fits your budget.
The article is from October 05.
Like Big DK said (or I think it was him) a lot of RAM support and stability depends on the chipsets of the MOBOs.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. March 2007 @ 04:38
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14. March 2007 @ 07:48 |
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Which is annoying because it literally means looking up which type of RAM suits the board rather than "any DDR2". However, other than my faulty set, I've not had any or heard of many compat. issues with Corsair.
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14. March 2007 @ 14:29 |
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PackMan777,
Quote:
If it's from members we know and respect, they can disclose their source of info. So who were you referring to?
Wow!!! It's mostly just comments about the subject I've gleaned from posts in this forum and DVD Hounds. It wasn't one specific post. Frankly it's been several months since the subject's come up I don't even begin to know where to look or in which thread. I just didn't think very much about it at the time as there was no discussion but just a recomendation to someone to do it that way.
Intels must be a bit different when it comes to 1T, 2T as I have 4x512 in mine and it runs 1T. I know on the A64 4000+, if I install all 4 sticks it runs at 2T. If I change it to 1T in the setup, it changes itself back to 2T!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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PacMan777
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15. March 2007 @ 00:09 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Which is annoying because it literally means looking up which type of RAM suits the board rather than "any DDR2". However, other than my faulty set, I've not had any or heard of many compat. issues with Corsair.
Many boards will work with much of the RAM offerings from different manufacturers. For those running at stock, they'll not usually see an improvement with the performance RAM. From my experience, more RAM is important on a stock system than speed. However when one gets into OCing, the speed of the performance RAM starts to count. It's always been part of the chase for the better build to find the RAM best suited for the build. Usually for the performance offerings a builder doesn't need to check over 3 or 4 manufacturers. The builder however needs to know what he's looking for.
@theonejrs
I guess your memory is either too good or lacking. Since 05 (maybe earlier) the speed of the larger RAM sticks has improved to where 512MB isn't better as far as speed. Sometimes it comes to a financial issue. There it's compare 2 512MB sticks to 1 1GB stick. If within reason it pays to use the larger RAM if you intend to expand later. Many of the older boards support up to 4GB RAM with 4 slots. The advantages and disadvantages are obvious. My P4 and 939 builds usually had 2x1GB of RAM, the performance ones with XMS Corsair or OCZ.
One thing a builder should consider nowadays is Vista ready. Whether we like it or not, the change is coming about. It's either embrace it and see what Vista has to offer or hold out with XP or Linux. Me, I'll stick with XP till I need Vista and give MS a chance to get some of the bugs out. But back to the point. Vista is a memory hog and requires some Vista ready components. A builder should note the heavy memory requirements and hardware needs when building a Vista ready system so the customer can make the transition in OS, if desired. Loading slots with 512MB RAM limits a lot of boards to what many recommend as minumum for Vista. I've noticed in most cases the Vista ready components are usually more upscale parts which means a better PC for the XP or Vista OS.
Now that you admit it was just impressions you got and nothing anyone in particular said, you can use the newly gained information for future reference. When talking about performance the 512MB sticks no longer have an advantage over 1GB unless a manufacturer sneaked out some super fast 512MB sticks while we weren't looking. "512MB better than 1GB" is just some of the old tech leftovers from back when. I noticed a while back that Corsair and Asus got together to build a highend mobo. The recommended RAM was 2x1GB XMS Corsair. Both companies supported the others product for that build. I suspect Asus would have put 512MB sticks in if they'd been needed to improve performance.
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3 product reviews
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15. March 2007 @ 00:39 |
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As I said its chipset dependent, so it really comes into play with whatever board you're using.
Generally it would be better to go with 2x1GB rather than 4x512MB because you have greater expansion capabilities in the future, lower depreciation from initial purchase price, as the 1Gb sticks will sell a lot easier.
Lower power consumption on the board, as you're only running 2 sticks.
I also don't think the issue is so bad on Intel platforms, as it is or certainly was on AMD based systems using Nforce etc...
Chances are that any new build system (if using latest parts) won't really be effected by the issue, it then comes down to how much memory you think you'll need in the future.
trying to get the latest benchmarks to show the differences is not easy, there's plenty of older stuff that shows what I said, but nothing which is new enough to post.
I'm not sure what system spec in question was, but I certainly didn't intend to start major row here, I was just pointing out what I thought the case was up to now, I wouldn't have said anything if I thought it could turn into a witch hunt.
People should be able to make statements, and have them challenged without it becoming nasty, otherwise no one will every feel like posting anything for fear of the pack.
I may well be wrong (so what) if I am then fine, at least I'll learn and so will everyone else that reads the thread.
I am unable to test the situation myself, as I only have 1GB sticks, so I can use either 2x1GB or 4X1GB but not 4x512MB which would be an accurate test.
I suppose that at least this issue of memory handling is directly related to Intel vs AMD as it is handled differently on the two platforms, which is were the thread should be directed, rather than the usual wanderings that keep happening.
It would be good if we can get some useful answers to this question, for our own reference and for those that end up looking at this.
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PacMan777
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15. March 2007 @ 00:53 |
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No row and no one has gotten nasty yet that I've noticed. I think the subject if fairly well covered and you did a good job of summing it up. 512MB RAM is okay when called for, but it holds no inherent advantages nowadays, in fact it has more disadvantages when compared to the larger RAM sticks.
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15. March 2007 @ 00:56 |
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Well I'm convinced! I've gone for 2x1GB ever since I had a decent motherboard, mainly because I wanted the extra memory, but I see now I made a good choice anyway.
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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15. March 2007 @ 01:00 |
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Peace :)
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 01:03 |
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I think we've seen so much hostile conversation in this thread everyone's afraid of causing any more... But yeah, peace :-)
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PacMan777
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15. March 2007 @ 01:11 |
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I'll join the communal hug for the sake of camaraderie, but I don't see the need. If a person can't question information and sources on what's supposed to be a technical thread, it should be closed. The Safety Valve might be a better location for a friendly chat session. Nothing wrong with friendly chat, but a person shouldn't be overwhelmed when another says an idea has been relegated to old tech.
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PacMan777
AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 01:14 |
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Getting back off topic, when's AMD-ATI gonna build a good GPU with a mobo build on? ;)
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15. March 2007 @ 09:19 |
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PackMan777,
Quote:
(originally posted by BigDK)I'm not sure what system spec in question was, but I certainly didn't intend to start major row here, I was just pointing out what I thought the case was up to now, I wouldn't have said anything if I thought it could turn into a witch hunt.
I never took it that way, I took everything as constructive! I've learned that what was true a few years ago may not be true today because of advancements in the technology. I've discoverd articles on the net titled "The Myth of 512MBx4 vs 1GBx2" and read them. Hey! Time marches on! I appreciate your pointing this out to me as I now know that this is no longer valid information!
Thanks again,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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PacMan777
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15. March 2007 @ 09:35 |
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You're welcome. I think too many people have seen the arguments and when there's a topical disagreement on content they fear the discussion could get personal. That's juvenile behavior in which I won't participate. It also leads to people not pointing out facts they're aware of. The first thing I always ask if I'm in a disagreement is where the source of the info originated. If from texts, forums, individuals, or trade publications I like to get it straight up front. As you said, it was just an advancement in technology that you missed. You're not the only one because the discussion still crops up on a fairly regular basis. I may have been guilty of spreading the same misinformation at one point. It's just a matter of what we've learned and when we get updated. That's why it's good to discuss such things in an open forum.
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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15. March 2007 @ 12:52 |
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Sub zero cooling for $200.
Hope this makes it onto the shelves!!!
OCZ's sub-zero cooling chills X2 at 3.5GHz
If this baby ships at $199, it will be the ultimate cooling system for enthusiasts. If the system does not show up in retail, it was a great concept anyway. OCZ still has some quirks to fix on the system, and if they manage to ship it, it will be great. If those problems persist, company will continue to develop it until it's market-worthy. We can't wait to see it in our Croatian INQLab dungeon.
http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=37443
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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15. March 2007 @ 20:49 |
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If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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15. March 2007 @ 20:55 |
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hummmm whats your guess crowy 1200.00 dollars
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15. March 2007 @ 21:22 |
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Hey crowy,
There's a lot of good reading and information in the related news as well! Thanks very much for the link! I would guess what with giving the A64 info to someone else to build, that AMD is about to start thier engine and put it in gear! Go AMD!!! We all benefit!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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15. March 2007 @ 21:50 |
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Originally posted by aabbccdd:
hummmm whats your guess crowy 1200.00 dollars
That's probably a fair guess for a top of the line processor"IF" the 40% improvement over intel's core 2's is correct.Remember,any of the performance enthusiasts holding off on upgrading their pc until these new processors have been trialled,tested and tortured will be using the c2d's as their measuring stick.
theone,
Quote:
AMD is about to start thier engine and put it in gear! Go AMD!!! We all benefit!
They have too!!
I'm sure in the not to distant future,the wars will be hotter than ever.There should also be some bargains to be had from the current FX lineup too!!!
If the facts dont fit the theory, change the facts." -- Albert Einstein
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 21:54 |
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And it's about time...
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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15. March 2007 @ 22:16 |
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well thanks to Russ i got this Opteron 185 for 349.00. i bet there hard to even find now
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15. March 2007 @ 22:17 |
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