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The Official PC building thread!
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20. July 2005 @ 08:12 |
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I would if AMD had DDR2 support. See, Intel has it's memory controllers on the chipset, but AMD has memory controllers right in the processor.
So literally, the AMD Athlon 64 4800+ X2 CPU itself is not compatible. And the same goes for every other AMD CPU.
For AMD to make the switch to DDR2, it has to launch an entirely different line of CPUs, or completely revamt the current ones, and inform people the new ones aren't DDR compatible.
AMD says that because of it's design, the CPUs don't need to support DDR2 to be competitive with intels speeds. And yes this is very true, but I am not stupid enough to invest on a $1000 CPU when it doesn't support at least 667MHz memory if not DDR2-800.
I feel sorry for those who spend that much only to run PC3200, lol, their stupid mistake. In a year you'll have an even faster dual core CPU with DDR2-800.
But yes, that is my plan. Dual core AMD, with SLI config of nVidia's latest and greatest, which might not be the 7800 in a year. Plus DDR2-800. You have to have every piece of the puzzle to build a truely powerful computer that even Alienware can't touch.
DDR2 is a big one if you want to keep up for a number of years without selling it off and buying a new one that will have DDR2 just to be competitive.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. July 2005 @ 08:45 |
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My ideal system as thing stand at the moment would be:
FX-57
2GB PC3200DC (2gb is max for xp x64 isn't it? If not 4GB)
as ridiculously many disk drives raided as possible
512MB ATi Crossfire Array
the monitor i already have
the case i already have
LG Supermulti drive
(which i should be acquiring soon)
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26. July 2005 @ 09:07 |
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The 512MB cards actually perform less than a good nVidia 6800.
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121414,00.asp
A 6800 or 7800 is your best bet, because GDDR3 memory is so fast either way, 512MB, at this point is half-baked and unnecessary.
64-bit operateing systems can address (theoretically) 128GB, that is a little bit extreme, but displays the point that 32-bit was limited to 4GB addressing and now 64-bit systems can address many many more times that.
2GB is probally a minimum for a good system, and PC3200 is as fast as AMD can work with. (Wait for a dual core CPU with DDR2 support)
Windows x64 is half-baked as well. driver support is low and it is a very good OS to stay away from unless you have a business purpose for it. Wait for Windows Longhorn (Windows Vista officially) in 2006.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120913,00.asp
If you are building a dream system you might as well go for liquid cooling.
Just my suggestions :)
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. July 2005 @ 09:13 |
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by 512 i meant 256+256, an X850XT and an X850CE. None of this 512MB X800XL rubbish, and i hear the XL outperforms the standard on many occasions (256 anyway), dunno who's sources are right...
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26. July 2005 @ 09:37 |
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FPS specs from a reputable PC magazine are more trusted by me than backwaters game testers and enthusiats that have their own website they manage in between shifts at Mcdonalds, lol...
nVidia has thus far bested ATI in overall card and SLi performance, but it's your choice to go with them.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2005 @ 12:19 |
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maybe so, i don't disagree, but Crossfire has yet to really get going, SLi has been out and been refined to get the best, Crossfire is still whatever the hardware equivalent of 'beta' is...
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26. July 2005 @ 12:25 |
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????????? 6800's and 7800's use SLi... SLi is proven. That's more support for nVidia. Crossfire is ATi's knockoff.
I must not have got what you were getting at, because it sounded like you thought Crossfire was nVidia's, because its ATI's. I just must have misunderstood...
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. July 2005 @ 12:28 |
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no no no, i know Crossfire is ATi and SLI nvidia, wow i get that much!!
What im saying is crossfire is coming out later than sli, and since sli has been out for a while all the kinks have gone to get it running top, Crossfire is a bit late and this we don't know what it can really do just yet...
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jonni3
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27. July 2005 @ 14:54 |
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The thing with Sli is you need 2 Sli cards but with crossfire you only need 1 crossfire enabled card, so if you have say a 850xt already then all you need to buy is an appropriate mobo and the crosfire enabled 850xt hook them up via the DVi pass through cable and off you go ..... so in the long run it could work out to be more cost effective
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2005 @ 09:05 |
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Precisely, and that's why i think it's the better deal, well one of the reasons...
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28. July 2005 @ 12:48 |
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
But in my opinion:
1. Crossfire without identical cards will not have the same sweet sweet performance as SLi can pull
and therefore
2. Cost effective can kiss performance's you know what.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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jonni3
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28. July 2005 @ 13:02 |
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Crossfire cards have a compositing engine to mix the outputs together, you only need 1 crossfire enabled card to run 2 cards together, not only will it use the same 2 rendering modes as Nvidia Sli but will also have another 2 rendering modes, one of which called "supertiling" is more efficent than what Sli has to offer....also Crossfire will work with any 3D game unlike Sli, this is going to be some serious competion for Sli ;) these cards should be out real soon, so we'll just have to wait and see ..oh and as for performance Ati has broken the 3Dmark 05 record with a score of 15598 with 2 o.c'd x850xt crossfire cards which kinda beats 2 Sli 7800GTX cards ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2005 @ 13:12
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2005 @ 13:08 |
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I'm sorry reasons?, but loathed as I am to disagree, it's not just cost-effectiveness that ATi's solution has to offer, but also versatility. Most people can only dream of having two top-end GPUs in their system, but many of those who could afford it take time to gather funds for the second card, only to find that they need to get exactly the same card as before to run SLi, and oh look! They can't find one.
Crossfire won't give a damn about that, and besides, I hear compatibility will be better, and then of course there's supertiling, scissor mode and all the other bumph too, if they could get some decent catalyst drivers (someday...) they'll be no stopping them.
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28. July 2005 @ 15:55 |
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"Ati has broken the 3Dmark 05 record with a score of 15598 with 2 o.c'd x850xt crossfire cards which kinda beats 2 Sli 7800GTX cards ;)"
Link please.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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jonni3
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28. July 2005 @ 16:30 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2005 @ 16:32
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28. July 2005 @ 20:38 |
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"The new record is 15 498 marks, which is around 6% higher compared to the previous record held by a multi-GPU system based on NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra SLI platform."
Ok, here's for a little common sense. I won't pull out official numbers, yet, unlesss you make me, because my time way more valuable than you think.
The Highest (apparently, I don't follow GPUs very well, but this is ATI's best graphics cards no?) ATI configuration is pitted against the 6800's. By far not the highest card by nvidia.
Let's establish a few things with this "x-bit labs test".
1. The ATI's peformed 6% better.
2. ATI was using the $? x850 with a storm of specialized new chipsets etc.
3. nVidia was using the $1000 6800 ultra
4. On off the biggest tell tale card aspects is simply vertices/s
5. The ultra has 638 million v/s
6. The new 7800 GTX OC is only $600 and performs 920 million v/s
First correction is that you claim that the ati's bested the 7800's, they haven't yet, they have bested the 6800 ultra.
You might say the ultra is the best because it is $400 more. It's not. Aside from, in the end, menial bells and whistles, it comes down to the 512MB of GDDR3 that marks this baby up way high. The extra memory is overatted because of GDDR3's clock speed it can refresh the 256MB so fast anyway it doesn't matter, read:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121414,00.asp
It makes pefect sense to someone who knows a little about memory. 512MB right now is an over priced salse pitch.
Now, you want pretty right? Try testing two 920 million v/s 7800 GTX OC's and see what happens. They avoided the even cheaper cards for a damn good reason. $1000 for 512MB is half-baked at 638 million vertices/s, and they have an apparent ATI bias, or maybe even funding. I judge this off of an eval. of the site's archive of recent articles. Also see the link below, it mentions something about how the community looks at ATI at God. Bias, baby, ATI has grown power and bias since Alienware adopted it and the company took on a dark underground look.
The 7800's would smoke both those other two configs at a lesser price.
It doesn't matter in the end anyway, read this article from 2003:
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110896,00.asp
What prevents them from doing it to the 05' software? Absolutely nothing. Hardware can manipulate software like cake can manipulate a fat kid, he just eats it up and doesn't know what the hell is going on.
(The fat kid is the testing software.)
I'll check this forum out tommorrow morning for your ATI grasp for breath. Then when I get back in town on Monday I'll bet you guys will have so much ATI propaganda, I'll have to spend a full 15 minutes finding an organizing atual evidence for you ;)
Peace, this isn't edited for typos so enjoy.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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jonni3
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29. July 2005 @ 04:04 |
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If your thinking i'm a ATi fanboy you'd be wrong , i much prefer & use Nvidia but you can't ingnore the the performance capabilities of the ATi crossfire with the their current generation of cards, when they release the R520 ( if they ever get it right ) then i suppose that will be a fair comparison , yeah i shouldn't have compared them to the 7800 rather the 6800 my bad , as for the memory side of things 512 cards will come in to their own as newer game titles require more system resources ... oh and there is no need to spit your dummy out of your pram, i'm just going by articles i have read from various sources ;)
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29. July 2005 @ 09:06 |
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With the clock speed of GDDR3 it'll be a long time till we need 512MB. All 512MB will do is be waiting for the outbound of DDR-400 in game and when loading it'll hold more, but you don't need a quarter of the game on GDDR3. When games get bigger it'll come in handy, which is on the horizon, but right the cards are just plain overpriced for a 1-2 fps gain, you can do that just by perfecting all your options or maybe overclocking a tiny bit.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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30. July 2005 @ 03:13 |
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But seriously has no-one noticed how much cheaper ATi cards are?
I can grabs me an X850XTPE for £263, yet a 6800Ultra is £322.
and as for a 7800GTX, a minor upgrade on the 6800 (yes i'm going to say it, minor - it is at this stage) £375!!
The CE card will have to carry a hefty premium to match those prices up...
Twin 7800GTX (cheapest brand) £751.
Twin X850XT PE add an extra £50 because the CE card will be more - £577.
if the performance difference between the two will be 1/2% then i think i know what I'd buy, not that i would buy the most top-end GPU ever because that's a WASTE OF MONEY PEOPLE!!!!
come on, people. How many of you play:
UT2004 - 1920x1200 Full detail
Doom 3 - 1280x1024 Ultra detail
almost all other games - 1600x1200 or higher
with your million-dollar twin GPUs compared to my lowly singular AGP 8x unit.
My GPU does everything i could ever want it to, and for that matter everything anyone would want it to do, your SLi madness will only come into being a couple of years from now, when cards like mine can't keep up. But of course, by then, you'll have something else...
Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree, but i think it's madness....
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ddp
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30. July 2005 @ 07:18 |
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maybe there are people with more money than brains!!
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31. July 2005 @ 09:54 |
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A single 7800 GTX OC is well worth $600 and will improve graphics on every resolution, especially aliasing and other nice improvements. The 7800 GTX is the finest card out there and is resonably priced.
The dual GPUs get good when you either have a 24" 1900x1200 or two LDCs you want to hook up.
Fanboy is a term used to describe someone who is utterly devoted to a single subject. This generally is followed by the devotion and support even when proved wrong.
Anecdotal, by my definition, it's the way too many people here think. It's also all the evidence you have.
Xbox 360 GT: NEGATIVE 273K
My advice: Wait for PS3.
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. August 2005 @ 14:12 |
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as i said, how many apps currently use 1920x1200?
and no i disagree the 7800GTX is not reasonably priced, its insane in my opinion.
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tra77
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2. August 2005 @ 19:43 |
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guys have a question, instead of buying my next PC im buying all the parts nad haveing a custom pc shop put it all together, unless it is really easy to put together,
well here is what I have
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 bit FX-57
Motherboard: ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Motherboard
Memory: 2 GB DDR PC 3200 Memory Corsair XMS
Hard drive: 2 Hitachi DeskStar 7K500 - hard drive - 500 GB - SATA II
Hard Drive Master: 2x 74GB Western Digital Raptor
Graphics: 2x nVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX 256 mb
Case: Thermaltake Kandalf Aluminum Full-Size Case
Power Supply: Thermaltake 680watt
Optical Drive: 16x Plextor DVD-Burner Dual Layer
Audio: 8 Channel Audio
Network: 10/100/1000 MBps Network Interface Card
Expansion:2 PCI 16x, 2 PCI-x, 3 PCI
Operating System: Windows XP Professional Edition x64
My question first as far as a power suppy I have now a 650 watt unit dont know the name, but for the sata drives would I need a different PS. I know this case comes with one, but doesnt say if its for sata or what,
I dont now much about OC, but would it be wise to get a water kit with this? it might get OC during sometime.
any and all feedback is welcome
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ddp
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2. August 2005 @ 19:48 |
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the psu is big enough to handle what you have & don't need to oc the videocards unless you have more money than brains because if overclocked too much than could fry the system so that you are left with an expensive pile of scrap!!
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tra77
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3. August 2005 @ 01:58 |
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I dont really dont want to do anything with out researching on it first, and OC is not my area so I will leave it alone...
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