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The Official PC building thread!
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Praetor
Moderator
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14. August 2004 @ 21:41 |
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Quote:
Is there a big difference in a 1024k vs a 512k Cache?
Normally i'd say yes but since the Newcastle (512) seems to be at the least. keeping up, with the older 'Hammers (1024) i'd say AMD's got their efficiency thing going :)
Quote:
And 0.13Micron vs 90nm(.09micron)
There should be a difference. The 90mm should be higher clocked/clockable and at similar clocks, should run cooler but this is NOT the case (at least with the Prescott, P4E). Which is why i suggest people stay away from it until Intel's worked out their heating issues
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dawai
Junior Member
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15. August 2004 @ 06:32 |
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ic the reason i was leaning towards prescott was because of the lower micron and the higher cache.. i was planning on ordering a different heatsink (copper coolermaster) but you think northwood is still a better buy?
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Hamboner
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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15. August 2004 @ 09:53 |
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dawai I would agree with Praetor and say go with the Northwood. I ended up getting the Prescott and its running very hot at idle at 55C and 65C when working hard. Northwood would be much more efficient. Wish I had gotten the Northwood so I could OC. Now I am spending more money and looking for a better heatsink and fan. :(
Jack of all traits, master of none.
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dawai
Junior Member
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15. August 2004 @ 20:50 |
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true... i just didn't know if the bigger cache made a noticeable difference with the lower micron
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Praetor
Moderator
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18. August 2004 @ 07:44 |
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Quote:
ic the reason I was leaning towards prescott was because of the lower micron and the higher cache.. I was planning on ordering a different heatsink (copper coolermaster) but you think northwood is still a better buy?
The GeForceFX5800 (compared to the Radeon9800) was a far superior chip on paper but it was a dismal failure in actuality (i do wish they would make those ultra loud fans again, I want one :P). The Prescott is a similar story and it does get tossed around by the P4EE/FX chips and the NorthwoodCs arent all that far behind it. Buck for buck you're prolly better off with the NorthwoodC.
Why is the P4E so much crappier? For the same reason the first P4s got toasted by AMD chips:
- The K7s had a 15 stage pipeline, the P4s, a 20 stage pipeline ... at similar clock speeds the K7s will totally destroy the P4s (as we all saw ever so clearly with the Pre-2.0Ghz chips) because with a shorter pipeline, the overall chip is much more efficient.
- Now we noticed that the P4s starting to gain the advantage back and eventually surpass the K7s when the clock speeds started going up; the moral of the story: the longer the pipeline, the faster the clock can be and the faster the clock has to be in order to compete with shorter-piplined chips
- Now compare the 20 stage P4C with the 31 stage (or is it 30 I cant remember) P4E -- at similar clocks, the P4Cs will very easily take it on ... the extra 512K of cache really doesnt go that far. The last P4C was the 3.4Ghz .... the current "flagship" P4E is the 3.6Ghz ... a 200Mhz difference -- not enough to overcome 11 pipeline-stages of efficiency decrease. Once the clocks get high enough though, you'll definitely see the P4E pull clear away (and ahead) of the P4C -- I dont see that hapenning until we cleanly breach 4.4Ghz ... and by then hopefully (a) Intel works out the heat issue and (b) they'll have a new core or (c) dual core will be prevalent
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true... I just didn't know if the bigger cache made a noticeable difference with the lower micron
It's supposed to. Then again the GFX5800 was supposed to be a Radeon9800 killer........
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dawai
Junior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 11:21 |
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Thanks alot Praetor: helps alot
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Praetor
Moderator
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18. August 2004 @ 22:34 |
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Glad i could clear things up :)
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dawai
Junior Member
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25. August 2004 @ 07:19 |
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Praetor Would you suggest AMD or P4 for gaming (doom 3 HL2 and other games that require high graphics)
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Praetor
Moderator
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26. August 2004 @ 08:44 |
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Dont matter really:
Low Budget - AMD
Medium Budget - Intel
High Budget - Depending on what you want, either. The stuff i do is AMD friendly so i go that way. Also, even at the high budget level, AMD is typically cheaper (then again when ur dealing with $1000 CPUs, it dont matter much)
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dawai
Junior Member
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26. August 2004 @ 09:45 |
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what do you think about the Intel Xeon processor... and the amd 64 bit processor (is the 64 bit necessary?)
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. August 2004 @ 14:48 |
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Praetor.
My Stepmom bought a new computer I will get to that in a minute. I learned alot from you over the months, about 2700 and 3200 memory and such. I remember when I never knew a difference in memory, never really thought about it. Well anyway, her and I went to Circuit City, We saw a Computer, I told her what she wanted to get a few things were not to my liking what she did get. We looked at this HP computer for around $890...It has an AMD 64 athlon in it, which I told her to buy an AMD 64 if she is buying new, so she got that, has a 160gig HD, which is pretty standard these days for factory built computers at stores like Best Buy and Circuit city, which is Okay. The thing I don't like is the fact it has DDR 2700 memory in it. I told her to go for a machine that has 3200 memory or higher. You have to go to HP's Website, Compaq's, Dell's and so on and customize a machine to get 4200, can't really get it at Best Buy and stores like that. Well anyway, the Circuit city Salesman said 2700 and 3200 aren't really that different and it didn't really matter, Well I know 3200 is better is all I am thinking, but oh well she bought the computer and she is happy with it. Worlds better then what she had before, worlds better then what I got right now. I went to Compaq's website and for only $113 more then what she paid at circuit she could have got a compaq with the same processor (AMD64)same Hard-drive the same computer bassically, but the Compaq for $113 more has 3200 memory with a full gig off it vs her 512-2700DDR memory. Also has sound authlogy 2 or whatever the hell it is and also comes with a Nvidia 5500 card, for only $113 more. I will shop around more when I buy my next PC. Some People like My stepmom don't know the difference.
Jason Rife
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dawai
Junior Member
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29. August 2004 @ 08:36 |
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Praetor... my cousin and i both bought the same motherboard and same ram but he bought a northwood 3.2 gighertz HT and i bought the prescott 3.2 gighertz ht we bought also got a copperheat sink with a huggggeee fan. lol (its like a jet turbine lol) but i guess we'll see if there are any big differences (we both have the same vidcard sound card and HD and we are gonna format everything to try and control the test.... hopefully mine will be better =)
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Praetor
Moderator
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30. August 2004 @ 11:54 |
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Quote:
what do you think about the Intel Xeon processor... and the amd 64 bit processor (is the 64 bit necessary?)
Xeons are for server duty and they dont really "kick it up" until they are in mass clusters. As for 64bit procs, if you're comparing say the A32s and the A64s, the A64s are better in every respect and thus worth the upgrade. If you're comparing A64 and IA32 in a 32bit world its fairly even. Most people dont have a need for 64bit stuff yet.
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I learned alot from you over the months, about 2700 and 3200 memory and such. I remember when I never knew a difference in memory, never really thought about it.
I'm glad .... I still remember (and get a kick out of) those first few days/weeks :P It's all good though :)
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Well anyway, the Circuit city Salesman said 2700 and 3200 aren't really that different and it didn't really matter
Technically the salesman is correct -- even though he doesnt know why he's correct, he's just trying to sell the machine -- PC2700 can very often easily OC to PC3200 (but if you're not the OC type you're better off with the PC3200 to start with)
Quote:
but the Compaq for $113 more has 3200 memory with a full gig off it vs her 512-2700DDR memory
Probably worth the upgrade/swap
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Also has sound authlogy 2 or whatever the hell it is and also comes with a Nvidia 5500 card, for only $113 more
Now if you mean the other system has an extra 512MB of faste rmemory, a better soundcard and a better vid card fir only $113, then definitely go for it
Quote:
Praetor... my cousin and I both bought the same motherboard and same ram but he bought a northwood 3.2 gighertz HT and I bought the prescott 3.2 gighertz ht we bought also got a copperheat sink with a huggggeee fan. lol (its like a jet turbine lol) but I guess we'll see if there are any big differences
Sweet! Yeah i'd definitely be interested in seeing them side by side like that (although i think the P4E will lose out simply because the Prescots, clock-for-clock are much less efficient than the P4Cs but we'll see) :D
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askyew
Member
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31. August 2004 @ 03:12 |
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Praetor: if he is buying a compaq chances are that it is going to have a castrated bios. I doubt if he will be able to overclock it. There are some overclocking programs out there but they are hit and miss with types of boards. Plus you can bet if you use one of these programs that the warranty wont be worth a flip. On the subject of the preshott I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole(and it would probably still leave a burn). The power usage of them are insane causing the temps to be insane. The newer generation boards(915,925 chipsets) are the ones being built to handle the power consumption of the prescott. The older boards(3mths or greater) just weren't designed to handle a prescotts hunger. I don't believe that updating cpu codes in the bios was a legitimate way to handle the release of the prescott. I just think that if you do some research that amd is the way to go right now.
P4 2.8c @ 3.2
Abit IC7-G
2x80 gb seagates barracudas
ATI AIW 9600 soft mod by w1zzard
2 x 256 pc 3200 Kingston valueram(hynix chips)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2004 @ 03:14
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Praetor
Moderator
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31. August 2004 @ 07:46 |
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Quote:
Praetor: if he is buying a compaq chances are that it is going to have a castrated bios. I doubt if he will be able to overclock it
Not everyone needs to overclock you know. For that price you're getting a damn good deal
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. August 2004 @ 11:29 |
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Okay this is the Compaq I would buy if I had the money, but When I do buy one down the road I will look along these lines.
SA4000Z series PC Comapq
AMD Athlon(TM) 64 3200+ operating at 2.0GHz
1 GB DDR / PC3200 (2 DIMM)
160 GB 7200rpm Ultra DMA Hard Drive
48x max hp CD-Writer Drive (48x32x48x)drive 1
8X DVD+RW/+R drive (DVD writer) drive 2
9-in-1 Card Reader, 2 USB, and 1 FireWire
256MB DDR NVIDIA GeForceFX(TM) 5500, DVI & TV-Out
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS card w/Front Audio ports
Compaq Home Professional Keyboard and Opt Mouse
price $1,083.99
Didn't think that was to Shabby on Compaqs website. Down graded a few things like the Processor From an AMD64 3400+ down to an AMD 64 3200+, Didn't get the wireless keyboard and mouse and no speakers. Don't need wireless, save $30 not getting it. The extra 512 stick of memory is a free upgrade.
Now the Computer my step mom bought
AMD 64 3200+
512 DDR 2700
regualer keyboard and mouse
No video card that I know of
No sound card that I know of
For $890 plus tax.....You tell me which deal you would rather have.
Jason Rife
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. August 2004 @ 11:40 |
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Praetor quick question...Maybe you can answer it for me.
Okay the deal I just showed you above the Compaq deal with all the goodies, Compaq has another deal on another computer, its the same case and everything as the AMD64 Athlon Compaq model, but they have a Pentium Model that cost $100 more, bassically the same computer, they look the same...But Compaq site says above the title, Latest technology above the P4 Model, it's considered one notch better then the AMD 64 Model I showed you according to Compaq...How and Why would P4 be considered better???? it's 32 bit. But the P4 Model has DDR2 4200 memory where the AMD model only has 3200...Figure that one out.
Jason Rife
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askyew
Member
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31. August 2004 @ 19:39 |
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Its the new P4 LGA 775 with a PCI Xpress board. The Ram can be run at bus speeds that are greater than the fsb(like the quad pump of the processor). With the pci x express chipset you can run a 800mhz(quad pumped)fsb with memory speeds of 400 or 533ddr2. This is the new chipset that is supposed to bring about the 1066 bus speed. Its claim to fame is that the chipset is supposed to be "the worlds fastest chipset platform". The FX amd models still seem to be out doing it in alot of benchmarks though. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens when it finally gets the technology to utilize the 1066bus. The processor is the prescott built on the same 90nm technology. I think that I have already posted my thoughts about the prescott, however this is a new generation board designed for it.
Praetor: I was telling him that he probably couldn't overclock his ram to 3200 speeds unless the compaq has the bios to allow it.
P4 2.8c @ 3.2
Abit IC7-G
2x80 gb seagates barracudas
ATI AIW 9600 soft mod by w1zzard
2 x 256 pc 3200 Kingston valueram(hynix chips)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2004 @ 20:47
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Praetor
Moderator
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1. September 2004 @ 05:18 |
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Quote:
Its claim to fame is that the chipset is supposed to be "the worlds fastest chipset platform"
I dunno how thats gonna happen considering the K8s are running a 2Ghz interconnect....
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dawai
Junior Member
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1. September 2004 @ 18:46 |
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Praetor,
I am having some trouble starting up the new stuff... iformated everything but it says my processor is 3.2 gighertz but only runing at 2.8... any suggestions? and my windows keeps on locking up:
this notice also says that my HD has problems:
"Pri Master hard Disk S.M.A.R.T. status BAD, Backup and Replace....." any way to avoid buying a new HD.. if not what kind of harddrive do you recommend.
Thanks alot
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askyew
Member
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2. September 2004 @ 00:21 |
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Yes praetor they both offer up to 2ghz, for some reason the k8 isn't offering support for 533ddr2 yet for some reason. You also notice that I said supposed to be and the quote was from abits web site. After seeing the memory bandwidth whipping that intel has taken from amd lately I must admit that I am skeptical.
dawai please post your system specs as it will help to advise you on your problem. It sounds like you are going to have to replace your hard disk. I use the seagates and have for sometime they are reliable and quite. They do produce a little heat so if you have more than one you may have to get more cooling fans if you dont already have them.
P4 2.8c @ 3.2
Abit IC7-G
2x80 gb seagates barracudas
ATI AIW 9600 soft mod by w1zzard
2 x 256 pc 3200 Kingston valueram(hynix chips)
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dawai
Junior Member
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2. September 2004 @ 15:38 |
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Alright but i dont' know why my 3.2 processor is only running at 2.8 ne suggestions on what to do?
p4 3.2Prescott w/ COOLERMASTER Jet4 Copperheatsink
1 gig ddr ram low lat. 2-2-2-5 Corsairs
ATI|RADEON 9800 PRO 256M 8X
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
Western Digital 74gb 10kRPM SATA HD
maxtor 120 gig IDE 7200rpm
500watt Aspire powersupply
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askyew
Member
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2. September 2004 @ 19:27 |
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dawai is it an oem machine or did you build it? If you built it I need to know what mother board you have. If it is oem, did you change processors? How familiar are you with your bios? It sounds like your fsb is set at 175mhz.
P4 2.8c @ 3.2
Abit IC7-G
2x80 gb seagates barracudas
ATI AIW 9600 soft mod by w1zzard
2 x 256 pc 3200 Kingston valueram(hynix chips)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. September 2004 @ 21:13
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dawai
Junior Member
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3. September 2004 @ 08:39 |
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my motherboard is :SOLTEK "SL-865Pro2-FGR" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL
and my processor is: CPU P4/3.2EGHz(prescott) 800M 478P/1MB HT RT
I built it
p4 3.2Prescott w/ COOLERMASTER Jet4 Copperheatsink
1 gig ddr ram low lat. 2-2-2-5 Corsairs
ATI|RADEON 9800 PRO 256M 8X
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
Western Digital 74gb 10kRPM SATA HD
maxtor 120 gig IDE 7200rpm
500watt Aspire powersupply
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. September 2004 @ 08:40
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. September 2004 @ 13:46 |
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If isNew(post.topic) { system.newPost() } else {post.delete}
/edited by Praetor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. September 2004 @ 15:31
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