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once and for all absolute hands down best program and/or process to back up DVDs
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bitwriter
Newbie
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29. July 2004 @ 05:49 |
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hi,
i am sure this question has been posed and answered to some degree in other threads but everyone i have seen were filled with different (conflicting) answers/opinions.
once and for all what is the the absolute best program and process for backing up your DVDs? the most important criteria would be the quality resulting from the compression and/or encoding.
also, how effective is the deep analysis of DVDshrink? i have read that while DVDshrink is a good program it is now where near the best available.
what are the drawbacks of using dvd+r instead of dvd-r, besides being supported by fewer stand alond dvd players?
finally, how long can you typically expect a ritek G04 dvd+r to last before it starts to have problems?
thanks for any help you can offer,
bitwriter
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brian100
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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29. July 2004 @ 09:16 |
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Quote:
once and for all what is the the absolute best program and process for backing up your DVDs?
Backup to a Dual layer blank, with the new generation of burners & media. Zero compression = cloned back-up.
If you are backing up to single layer, the answer is..well there is no answer. But some better methods involve using the following app's :-
DVDrebuilder/CCE : Best but slow.
Pinnacle IC 8 : Cheap but slow.
DVDshrink 3.2 : Free & slow.
Results..as discussed on this forum are highly subjective. My idea would be to try a few & stick to the one you like best.
Quote:
i have read that while DVDshrink is a good program it is now where near the best available.
The new version 3.2 of shrink is, apparently, a major improvement on version 3.17
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how effective is the deep analysis of DVDshrink
From personal experience, I feel the deep analysis improves output quality, significantly.
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what are the drawbacks of using dvd+r instead of dvd-r, besides being supported by fewer stand alond dvd players
Apart from the last statement concerning "less support" I would also like to know the drawbacks.
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how long can you typically expect a ritek G04 dvd+r to last before it starts to have problem
I have had some Ritek back-ups that are 18 months old, that have zero read errors. If you handle & store your backups carefully they should last a good while. Do not be tempted to apply labels to your back-ups.
Looking for my old AD |
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bitwriter
Newbie
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29. July 2004 @ 09:50 |
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hi brian100,
thanks for the help. lol yeah i supposed a dual layed clone would offer the best performance but unfortunatly i am stuck with a single layed burner at the moment.
what is CCE? i am assuming it is basically a ripper and that DVDrebuilder is what compiles the ripped files for execution of a burn. if my assumption is right, then what is the difference between DVDdecrypter and CCE and i guess also the difference between DVDrebuilder and Nero recode2.
thanks
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brian100
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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29. July 2004 @ 10:23 |
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CCE = Cinema Craft Encoder. DVDrebuilder "references" CCE to re-encode your DVD9 to DVD5. This method of backing up takes time..plenty of it (typically for me 5-7 hours per backup) CCE basic costs..about $50 ish...but the front end Rebuilder is free, and is constantly being updated.
There is an excellent guide written by Vurbal here :-
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial.cfm
Have a good read of the guide, it gives an excellent introduction and should get you up an running. You should also check out the following forum link :-
http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=88181ace3feb0b5f7fc3997fd48e3668&forumid=75
Many FAQ'a are listed in this area, it is worth a good browse if you are interested.
Nero recode is a Transcoder (like DVD Shrink, Pinnacle Insant copy, CloneDVD, Intervideo dvd copy)
DVD decrypter, as you know is a ripper & burning programme.
My advise, get a good bottle of wine..have a good read BEFORE deciding if to adopt the CCE/Rebuilder route. If you do decide to adopt there are many using this method on this forum who will gladly help you on your way.
Looking for my old AD
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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29. July 2004 @ 15:35 |
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Quote:
once and for all what is the absolute best program and process for backing up your DVDs? the most important criteria would be the quality resulting from the compression and/or encoding
.
Brian already told you that the D/L setup is the way to go, PERIOD !
If you wish to keep your single-layer burner, fine. I think it's cheaper to buy a D/L burner and some D/L disc instead of buying this proggy, which fits your requirements. "It" would be Cinema Craft Encoder SP (CCE), cost - $2000.00.
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also, how effective is the deep analysis of DVDshrink? I have read that while DVDshrink is a good program it is now where near the best available.
DVD Shrink is Free ! It would be folly to assume something for free could compare with something for $2,000.00. (tis a silly question, whot ?) (lol)
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what are the drawbacks of using dvd+r instead of dvd-r, besides being supported by fewer standalone dvd players?
The question is incorrect. Only standalones of the caveman era won't play DVD+R media. Today's standalones will play a small cheese pizza with mushrooms if the cheese isn't too thick AND will play it in the "wide screen" mode if it's available :P)
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finally, how long can you typically expect a ritek G04 dvd+r to last before it starts to have problems?
I have been using decent media since March, 2002 and all of my DVD's are still playable that were burnt on that stuff. A truly lousy answer isn't it ? Ask me in another 50 years and then your question may have some merit -
Test over, pencils down, hand your papers to your right, class dismissed -
(Wheeew, that was fun -)
cheers,
Pete
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forkndave
Member
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29. July 2004 @ 16:17 |
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Incidentally, there is no such thing as a Ritek G04 +R. The G04 is a -R. Ritek uses the "G" for the -R and the "R" for +R. I have heard that some of their +Rs are Ricoh although I haven't personally seen any. I normally use -R because my burner doesn't seem to like +R as much. I'm sure other people have different results.
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Moderator
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29. July 2004 @ 16:23 |
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Hi,
All of the RiDATA +R that I've used has been RICOHJPNR01 :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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29. July 2004 @ 18:10 |
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forkndave,
As Nephilin said try the Ridata +R's - it's what I use. Also the "branded" Ritek +R's. Another choice would be "Branded" Verbatim +R's - I use these also and they are great !!
cheers,
Pete
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forkndave
Member
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29. July 2004 @ 18:58 |
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I have tried Ritek +Rs. I guess what stopped me from using +Rs is Kprobe. I have a Lite-On LDW-411s hacked to 811s and a Pioneer A07 burner. +R discs burned on either one have much higher PI and PO errors on Kprobe. I don't know the reason for this. Probably one of the worst for me was Ritek R03 8X +R. I could burn them at 8X O.K., but I got better results burning Ritek G04 4X -R at 8X. I have discs around that were burned on a TDK +R only burner at 4X and they aren't any better. Probably what it is, is that my Lite-On doesn't read +Rs as well since I have seen Kprobe scans on the internet from other burners where +Rs looked fine. I have switched to mostly Prodisc -R discs because they are cheap and I have very few coasters with them. Kprobe scans are very comparable with Ritek G04. I also use Riteks when I don't want a hub printable. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Dave
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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29. July 2004 @ 19:26 |
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Dave,
One of the things I'd change if our rolls were reversed is - I don't ever burn at X8. Doing an "On-the-fly" I only burn at X4. Much less chance of errors. Going at X8 was giving me coasters about 15% of the time :(
Burning at the most X$ gives me close to 100% error free backups.
As far as chancing the cheap discs, when I do backups, I'd like them to last. AFA burning, one of the best dye applications is the AZO (formerly by Verbatim) the dye/application is currently being used on extremely poor quality composite discs. I tested "Great AZO." Excellent burning lousy retention !
See my thoughts on the "Time factor."
FAIR WARNING. . . Using that "Cheap" media, your backups may not last all that long -
THE TIME FACTOR:
One thing I haven't addressed is the life of a backup made on an "el cheapo" disc. We all know that data, music and video backups on CD's and DVD's will last forever, well, if not forever for at least 100 yrs or so - That's what we've read and that's why we backup our treasures to disc, so that they'll be safe. "BLAaaaT" (the bone chilling sound of an emergency air horn), Wrong, Dead Wrong ! Don't throw the originals away, you may very well need them. Your video camera tapes and family picture CD's and DVD's, may not be there the next time you want to look at them. "Point of fact," inferior discs have a tendency to "Break down]" in time. In a very short time, we're talking disc breakdown in less than a single year, in as little as 6 to 8 months.
Important, please read -
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=513486
My personal observations on this subject -
I have had about 40 backups that have refused to play after being stored for a year or more. I test all of my backups when they are burnt to be very sure that there are no problems. "In the Golden, Olden times," before I knew any better, the Memorex, Maxell and TDK discs (and any thing that was on sale) was what used before I switched to Ritek and Verbatim, it is the poor quality stuff that I have been experiencing my trouble with. I noticed that backup DVD's I had refused to play in my standalone player and on my PC. VOB files wouldn't play either and other discs that I backed up about the same time would "Freeze" part way through the movie. After switching to Verbatim and Ritek's, mostly the Ritek's because the price was right, I've not had 1 go "Flat" in almost 2 years. I still have some backups done on the cheap stuff and, as time wears on I lose a few more as I attempt to check them. I say to you, why did a backup play fine in "01"and "02" then "fail" in "03 ?? Some that were done in "01" never made it till "02" (it took me some time to learn, lol) and others done about the same time and "Failed" in "04"? All of my backups from about November of "02" were done on the "good Stuff" and they still work fine today - not a single failure !
As always, you have a choice -
Cheers,
Pete
BTW, In an effort to clear the air, when I speak of "Cheap" or "Inexpensive" media, I'm not referring to the price you pay at the counter - I'm referring to the type of composite some manufactures use, their method of dye application and the lack of, OR, the poor quality control used during manufacturing. when I say "Branded" that means that when you pick up a disc in your hand, it says "Ritek" or "Verbatim" on the disc itself. The monetary cost of the media we recommend many times is cheaper than that you are buying now.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. July 2004 @ 19:28
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forkndave
Member
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29. July 2004 @ 20:56 |
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Pete,
I've only been burning DVDs for about 18 months, so I can't comment about how long they'll last. I have some from when I started and they still play. The only ones that have failed for me had labels on them. Removing the labels made them play again. I use printables now and don't have that problem anymore. I'll probably continue to use the Prodisc untill I see some problems. They are certified by Pioneer's class "A" lab for whatever that means. I have used Verbatim and I agree they are the best. The only problem is that I can't afford to order Verbatim printables in the quantity that I use. I like the Prodisc because they are hub printable. When I don't need a hub printable I use Ritek G04. I have equal results with either. It'll be a few years before I'll know how long any of them will last, assuming I'm still alive. I figure most of them probably will outlast me. I always keep them in black DVD movie cases, so that should help some. I also don't hardly ever burn at 8X. For both of my burners the sweet spot is 6X. For some reason, I get less PI and PO errors at 6X than I do at 4X. 8X is definately higher, although still falling well within the specs for a good DVD using Kprobe's standards. I gave up long ago trying to figure out why. There's only about two minutes difference between 6X and 8X anyway.
Dave
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bitwriter
Newbie
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30. July 2004 @ 07:17 |
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hey you guys have been really helpful....i really appriecate you taking the time to help me out.
one more thing though what dual layer burner would you recommend?
thanks again,
bitwriter
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Senior Member
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30. July 2004 @ 12:55 |
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bitwriter...
I have a little different approach to your question about making the highest quality backup...
1. Yes, a dual layer burner w/dl media will give you the best non-compressed, 1:1 backup. This would be ideal.
2. You can also split the DVD-9 over two DVD-5 discs to get the same non-compressed, 1:1 backup. Shrink can do this. Some consider 2 discs inconvenient. You could also re-join these discs onto dl media at some later date - such as when the price of dl media comes down.
3. If you actually decide to use a transcoder process to reduce a DVD-9 to a one-disc DVD-5, the finest quality is achieved by the DVD Rebuilder-CCE combo. I use CCE Basic in my setup, and it cost $58. CCE Basic uses the same engine that the $2000 SP professional version does. CCE Basic just doesn't have the other features that aren't used anyway. I would add that there are threads here in the AD forum where the Shrink developers concede that RB-CCE produces better results at higher compression values. It's what they use. Shrink, and other transcoders, are fine for lower compression requirements.
The downside to RB-CCE is the encoding time. Expect 3-1/2 hours compoared to Shrink 3.2's 2-1/2 hrs for deep analysis (P2.6 CPU). This time part is moot for me, though, because I start the process right before I turn in for the night. It's finished when I wake up.
Now that the new Shrink 3.2 has been released, though, we need to find out just what it can do quality-wise. It might be the answer we have all been looking for , and it might not be. But I think we should hae a look. I've started a thread you may be interested in following in the 1-click transcoder section:
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/97960
Concerning your question about dual layer burners, they are still quite new. Most who have purchased them probably haven't had a chance to burn dual layer media yet due to price and availability. So, your question is a little premature.
_
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I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2004 @ 15:01
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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30. July 2004 @ 14:17 |
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HEY EVERYONE, HERE'S A CHANCE TO LIVE UP TO OUR NAME
bitwriter,
Why don't you research the D/L drives, "Google" the net, find all the drives available, compare all the features and THEN, if you want our opinion bring your findings here and we'll offer our opinions.
Being a Newbie doesn't mean you have to be helpless. You can actually do some things on your own - it will help you establish a reputation as someone who can think on their own and not someone who has to be told what to think, what to buy or not buy.
These drives are brand new so they don't have a "Track record". Give us the specs we'll help you analyze them. Not all of us have the time to do all your legwork for you - Just think, you can come back and teach us something, now THAT's what a forum is all about, it's not a "one-way" lecture hall, a Forum is a place where ideas and opinions are exchanged
cheers,
Pete
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. August 2004 @ 08:19
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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30. July 2004 @ 15:01 |
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. July 2004 @ 05:32
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ScubaPete
AfterDawn Addict
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30. July 2004 @ 16:55 |
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Quote:
The nerve of this guy asking for advice on how to buy a dual layer burner, I'll dare he even ask such a question.
I'm not sure if this was a tongue cheek for, "The thought of a Newbie having the intelligence to surf the net, garner information, put it into a comparative format and presenting it to us for analysis and comment is so far fetched as to be laughable." OR, "Newbies aren't capable of interacting with those of us who are the educated or self-taught and therefore my idea to bring them into a forum based dialogue was foolhardy to say the least.)
Hummmmm, the former, if selectively applied is probable, the latter, I don't really feel was that much of a reach - But then again, being removed from public interaction for the last 3 and 1/2 years, I suppose it could hold true among certain members of our constituents.
But in the off chance that we might not have a web surfer here here?s another link ? This is the one with the longest track record -
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=kHCsGGfpjbSsIid7-3-mEyjn1wt6jUHeJd0=?CategoryName=cpu_Sony_PCAccessories_CD%2fDVDBurn_DVDBurners&ProductSKU=DRU700A&Dept=cpu
Now you have 2 to look at ?
(Thinking where I would be if I didn?t do anything on my own ? (???))
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bitwriter
Newbie
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30. July 2004 @ 20:37 |
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my bad guys......i assure you my questions were motivated by laziness not ineptitude (though that could be easily debated). i was only hoping to start my research on a pre-selected field of drives. Also, I should have asked what characteristics reflect a quality drive, what manuafactures have a solid reputation for quality and any other bullshit that you don't find out about until the return period has expired, but that still is asking to be spoon fed.
Anyway, the main reason I asked is because i put a lot more faith in someone's recommendation when they have a verified track record of extrememly knowledgable posts rather than just hopeing the tech writer knew what they were talking about; same going for customer reviews.
I'll humbly bow on this one but you might be surprised to find out just how much more there is to a computer than making back-ups of DVD's and just because someone is asking for your opinion doesn't mean they are a complete retard as was implied
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Senior Member
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30. July 2004 @ 21:10 |
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bitwriter...
Thanks for coming back to AD ... and if no one welcomed you here, allow me. Also, if you know a lot about computers, there is certainly a place for you here to make a contribution. For example, a lot of visitors think they have a problem with software, yet what they really need is help with a system tune-up with things like DMA, ASPI, memory diagnostics, firmware upgrades, etc.
Once you do zero in on a dual layer burner you think you might like, post a thread about it. There is forum for DVD burners under PC Hardware. Your question will be most welcome there.
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I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2004 @ 21:17
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forkndave
Member
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30. July 2004 @ 23:26 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. July 2004 @ 23:28
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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31. July 2004 @ 05:35 |
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bitwriter
Your original post was appropriate and suitable to AD. AD has a lot room for new blood so hang with us and tell us how things turn out.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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ntjones
Junior Member
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31. July 2004 @ 11:49 |
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bitwriter:
I can't offer much more than one everyone else has said (unless you want me to repeat everything :) ), but as far as what drive to purchase, I do agree it is a bit early to really tell.
I have a Lite-ON 832 drive, and although I really like Lite-ON drives (this is my 6th one), I wouldn't go so far as to recommend it...yet. Once the media prices drop, and I can burn more than 3 dvd's, I (and others) will be able to give you a better idea of what burners are good and which are bad.
However, cdrinfo.com has reviewed nearly all of the DVD DL burners in the last month or so. The reviews are VERY indepth, though quite technical. You can check em out here:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Home.aspx?ArticleTypeId=2&SubCategoryId=32
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Senior Member
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31. July 2004 @ 11:52 |
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Thanks ntjones. I'm going to check out this link also.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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31. July 2004 @ 12:13 |
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but as far as what drive to purchase, I do agree it is a bit early to really tell.
Which is why I recommended the Lite-on, its inexpensive and works just fine as a high-performing single layer burner. I'm not ready to move to dual-layer yet, because I'm waiting for its media to go down in price first. But if I had an older burner that was ready to be replaced then I'd look for a good quality dual-layer-burner such as the Lite-On.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. July 2004 @ 12:14
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ntjones
Junior Member
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31. July 2004 @ 12:16 |
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True, but I guess my point was that recommending a burner with no proven track record is a bit premature. Don't get me wrong, I like the drive and don't have any complaints yet. But before I recommend a particular piece of hardware to someone, I think you should be able to back up "why" you think its better than something else. And right now, the Lite-On "name" is about all I can think of.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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31. July 2004 @ 12:28 |
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The Lite-On has successfully burned multi-compatible dual -layer discs and tested in several standalone players. The discs are overpriced, but they seem to work with this drive. There is a thread here at AD that deals with that issue, and here's a member of AD that was involved in the new DVD Shrink's beta testing (as was I and some others}. I'm still enjoying my Plextor and I'm not motivated to buy a dual-lare burner yet but if I had to buy a new drive today, it'd be dual-layer.
http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=cfb1235d3a3c8a8a5f217587150e3bd0&threadid=37290&perpage=15&pagenumber=11
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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