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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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harvrdguy
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24. February 2009 @ 23:45 |
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. . . . . including multiple hours of Left 4 Dead - a full 400% scale game (I reach the 300fps frame rate cap many times at 2560x1600 with 4xAA - with one X2 I never saw it reach 200, with Cat AI disabled it rarely breaks 90). Why use it then? When the going really gets tough, a single card drops to the low-mid 20s, an X2 the high 30s, low 40s. With 4 GPUs, I've never seen below 55. It's smooth as silk at max detail.
You know, it's things you say like that, which make me want to jump on the 4 gpu bandwagon and to hell with someday-second-machine. (Of course my deal has to close.) When all those goddamn zombies are running at you from everywhere (I used to play test it two years ago when it was still very rough and it scared the shit out of me then) that's exactly when you don't need any goddamn laggy bullshit going on with your system - you need to be putting out those rounds and nades and let all those poor infected bastards rest in pieces!! Hahahaha!
My relative, Miles, as you know, did the animation for that game, and he would be quite pleased, I think, to hear that I was enjoying it. We had a talk once about TF2 - the orange box - another game he worked on - and I told him I hadn't thought about picking it up - that I mainly did WWII Nazi-killing games. I have a lifetime Valve key he gave me for all Valve games, and I still wasn't planning on picking it up. Duhhh. I should keep my mouth shut - I could tell he was slightly disappointed. (That reminds me, another relative told me that she had gotten an email from Miles that he got some award for the L4D animation - I also got that email but I don't remember that part about the award or I would have called with a personal congratulations - I DID pass on your compliments to him.)
Left 4 Dead, 400% scaling! - F**ing awesome!! Gabe Newell, Pres of Valve, is one clever SOB - I remember when he started talking about exploring 64 bit gaming - maybe that's the version of the game that Steam put on your computer when they saw Vista. Valve were horrified at the code when they took over Turtle Rock, but it sounds like maybe they've cleaned it up pretty well - or maybe it's just that your machine is so goddamn powerful! LOL!
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My preferred single PCIe slot P45 board is the EP45-UD3R especially for chipset cooling reasons, something I'm taking far more seriously now.
Thanks for the tip - that sounds like the virtual twin brother of the ud3p - yeah, newegg right at $100 with rebate!
But I just got off the phone with one part of the deal!
If I can save it, L4D rough spots 55 fps and "smooth as silk!" LOL
Sam, I've been thinking about something you said a post or two up:
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For what it's worth a system with 4 GPUs like me, but with a 4Ghz i7 940 scores 30,500 in 3dmark06. That is how much the CPU affects the score at this level.
We said i7 quad is no better than core 2 quad for gaming. But, is the i7 architecture better for overclocking the i7 chip, without the serious NB heat issues? Look, the dude got his 940 to 4 Ghz. I am assuming he had a $300 motherboard, which is about what you paid for your x48-DS5 right? He probably had the 3 stick 6 gigs of DDR3 ram which seems standard for i7. The chip is expensive at $560 and the dominator memory is around $200, putting chip and memory about $400 more than Q9550 and 4gigs DDR2 memory, and about same price mobo. Is that extra $400 worth it if it means easier i7 overclocking and 50% more DDR3 ram?
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 02:39
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25. February 2009 @ 08:29 |
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What's great about Valve games is rather than be under the 'the way it's meant to be played' nvidia logo, or just third party, they actively support ATI hardware. Consequently, good crossfire performance in them is pretty much a sure thing. Team Fortress 2, HL2:Episode Two, Portal and Left 4 Dead all show fabulous gains from crossfire.
I'm not really sure what to say about how i7s would be affected by PCI express bandwidth, I too know someone with an i7 940 running at 4Ghz, but he's only using one X2, not two, and I have a pretty good feeling I could get my Q9550 darn close to 4Ghz with only one X2 installed, as my X38-DS4 could manage 3868.
With his system he scores 24,300 or so in 3dmark, about 2000 above me. He has the X58-Extreme, which is £260 versus the £200 I paid for my X48-DS5. The main reason for his choosing of the extreme though was the future potential for watercooling, he hasn't gone that way yet, but wants to keep his options open - the i7s use a lot of power, and he's reaching high 60s under load on his main CPU temp at 4Ghz, higher still in stress tests.
Ultimately, for anyone who has even the slightest budget limit for their system, i7 is the first thing to throw away. Unlike 3dmark, not having one is not necessarily a bottleneck for other games. The brute arithmetic force of the i7, however, does improve crossfire scaling in games that otherwise show very little benefit using one.
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25. February 2009 @ 13:32 |
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I wouldn't say that, I'm stil not sold on the OS, but it's not bad enough to be that mad about not having a choice..
I know what you mean. Vista is still very functional, and for the most part, is fine for everything. But it's the minor bugs and quirks that XP never had that keeps me from using it. Windows 7 is turning out to be a LOT better though, so I'm excited to see a final version soon. I might actually buy an OS this time around :P Last one I bought was my copy of XP Pro XD
And yet another reason I choose not to go quad Crossfire as well. Maybe Windows 7 will be better, but faster cards are coming out anyway, so your system will quickly fall behind. Very cool as-is, I agree. But a waste of money, IMO.
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My preferred single PCIe slot P45 board is the EP45-UD3R especially for chipset cooling reasons,
Agreed 100%. The P45s are great for OCing and the UD3R has excellent chipset cooling. It's never really been a problem for myself as my chipsets stay within tolerable temps. But really big OCs will start to have problems. The UD3P isn't much different AFAIK. But I've never used either so I can't say much.
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What's great about Valve games is rather than be under the 'the way it's meant to be played' nvidia logo, or just third party, they actively support ATI hardware. Consequently, good crossfire performance in them is pretty much a sure thing. Team Fortress 2, HL2:Episode Two, Portal and Left 4 Dead all show fabulous gains from crossfire.
I also like how the original HL2 still meets a processor bottleneck with a single card, lol. Using faster cards made no difference, but installing a quad shot my frames through the roof. I rarely see it below 200FPS, if ever XD
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Ultimately, for anyone who has even the slightest budget limit for their system, i7 is the first thing to throw away. Unlike 3dmark, not having one is not necessarily a bottleneck for other games. The brute arithmetic force of the i7, however, does improve crossfire scaling in games that otherwise show very little benefit using one.
My point exactly. The i7 is practically useless for games as any reasonably fast Core 2 Quad or Phenom II will show about the same FPS. Only when you have like GTX280s in SLI or Quad Crossfire will the i7 make a real noticeable difference. So unless you have money to burn, you will get a better value and nearly identical performance with almost any other quad. This is disregarding non-gaming applications though. The i7 is still faster, no doubt.
Personally, I would recommend a Q9550 or a Q6600 if you plan to go quad. Both can be OCd to the moon with a cheap P45 board. And they will surely be fast enough for anything.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 13:35
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25. February 2009 @ 14:08 |
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We've discussed your loathing of Quad CF before, and you'll notice it rarely finds its way into my recommended build lists, but it does have its uses for some people and shouldn't necessarily be ignored.
I'm as up for the new cards as you are, but I don't see anything on the horizon, and discounting the GTX295 as an improvement, there hasn't been anything new under the sun since August.
The CPU ceiling of HL2 is quite amusing, I too saw big benefits changing to a Quad, but then again, that was only really as two cards were held back. With a single GPU, the gains from quad cores are still debatable in a lot of games.
The i7s show similar frame rates to the core 2s in most tests, but not the Phenoms, that is stretching it a bit. Even the Phenom 2s don't have what it takes for the top demanding CPU-bound games.
My CPUs of the moment are the Q9550, Q9400 and i7 920. The Q6600 shows up occasionally, but the 9400 isn't much more expensive, and is a significantly faster chip.
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25. February 2009 @ 16:10 |
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We've discussed your loathing of Quad CF before, and you'll notice it rarely finds its way into my recommended build lists, but it does have its uses for some people and shouldn't necessarily be ignored.
I'm as up for the new cards as you are, but I don't see anything on the horizon, and discounting the GTX295 as an improvement, there hasn't been anything new under the sun since August.
Oh no I'm not saying Quad GPU is a useless technology. It definitely has its niche as you have proven with the 3007WFP and 3008WFP. But most users would do better to stick with 2 GPUs or less due to the buggy nature of such technology and the diminishing gains seen in anything but the most demanding situations. Not to mention the way over-the-top power consumption(AND HEAT, DON'T FORGET THE BLASTED HEAT). Basically, if you're not running 2560 x 1600 or similar, don't even consider it.
I do respect that it's the fastest graphics solution ATi has come up with. Definitely breaking new ground in what can be done with video cards. But the price just doesn't justify the gains unless you REALLY REALLY need it.
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The CPU ceiling of HL2 is quite amusing, I too saw big benefits changing to a Quad, but then again, that was only really as two cards were held back. With a single GPU, the gains from quad cores are still debatable in a lot of games.
Most games really don't support quad at all so any arguement here is almost pointless. Almost any single card system will game just as happily with a dual core. I agree that the benefits from quads only really show up with multiple cards. Though in non-gaming applications that can use it, a quad core will be faster, period. Not to say you can't use a single GPU and a quad to game, quite the contrary.
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Even the Phenom 2s don't have what it takes for the top demanding CPU-bound games.
An exaggeration maybe? I have no problems with any games so far. My Phenom II is right on par with my Q6600. Even Crysis is reporting nearly the same FPS. I think the benchmark was like 1FPS less than the Q6600 at the same speeds. Agreed that they're not quite as fast as the 45nm quads and the i7s. They do put up a good fight though, considering how badly the original Phenoms were beaten :D
Also, GTAIV does not count as a top CPU bound title seeing as it plays much worse than Crysis with (comparatively)crap graphics. The game is bugged, quad core support or no.
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My CPUs of the moment are the Q9550, Q9400 and i7 920. The Q6600 shows up occasionally, but the 9400 isn't much more expensive, and is a significantly faster chip.
Agreed. Though I don't think the Q6600 should be forgotten so quickly. It's still extremely cheap for a quad and most users will never notice a difference unless they watch FRAPS religiously. But if I were buying now, I would probably still get a Q9400 or Q9550. Because they ARE indeed faster.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 16:16
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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25. February 2009 @ 17:43 |
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It's great to see the lively discussions between you two guys, Sam and Estuansis. I just found a Q9400 on special at Microcenter (limit one, in-store only) for less than what Newegg has the Q6600 for, so if I go the intermediate solution, that's what I'll get - you both agree on that.
But in the unlikely event I'll go now for the new build (this deal looks increasingly like it won't pan out) I had been thinking, for the new build, of using the Q9550 and x48ds5 or ds4, whichever I can find.
However, forgive me for re-quoting again something you said Sam, that Estuansis also just re-quoted:
Originally posted by sam:
The brute arithmetic force of the i7, however, does improve crossfire scaling in games that otherwise show very little benefit using one.
Reading that very closely, "does improve crossfire scaling" - in certain games. Games that without the brute force of the i7, DO NOT show much scaling.
That is VERY interesting indeed.
So here I am with the 2560x1600, in what you, Estuansis, would call a NEEDY situation of desperately requiring maximum graphics horsepower if I am going to be able to share your appreciation for the subtle nuances of the graphics at high settings, on games like crysis. And here we have the i7 which appears to me to be about a $400 budget increase, mostly for the 940 chip and 6 gigs DDR3.
So taking a close-to $2,000 investment in hardware - $1,000 of that just in the two 4870x2s, unless I can make some great ebay buys, the other $1000 in mobo, chip, memory, PSU, case, hsf, gaming keyboard, mouse, mousepad, etc. - adding another $400 is a 20% increase in the budget.
We're not talking about doubling the budget.
So for a 20% budget boost, the above quote says that I could get some scaling improvements - better fps - on certain gaming titles - than I am going to be able to get without that increased investment.
I fall into Estuansis' MAJOR NEED category with the 30" monitor. If the deal went through, I would have a total of $4,000 to work with - I could increase the new rig budget from $2,000 to $2400. Going from $2,000 to $3,000, a 50% budget increase, could be more of a problem, but an extra $400 is do-able.
Would it be worth it? Would you guys do it if you were me? Would it possibly be a better way of future-proofing the system?
I too am looking forward to the ATI 5000 family, but that might not come out for a while - maybe even for a year. The 6 month refresh rate is already busted, and now it looks like multiple gpu solutions are just catching on. I could always sell the gfx cards later and slide something new in.
The basic framework of mobo, chip, and memory could serve me for quite a while. Would it be worth the extra budget boost of $400 to go to i7 at this time?
Rich
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25. February 2009 @ 18:03 |
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Neither the Phenom II (not the 940 at least) or the Q6600 are lacking in games performance, but on max CPU-bound settings, they can prove limiting, even without dual graphics. I didn't just upgrade to the Q9550 to show off, there really was a benefit to it.
Agreed on not putting much weight on GTA4, but if more games in the future are like it (heaven forbid), it's wise to stay a little ahead of the game, especially with a relatively expensive new build, after all, I still spec Dual cores for the cheaper new builds.
The Q6600 was a fabulous CPU, and to see it still here a considerable 15+ months after its release is quite impressive. However, it is no longer the ideal CPU it once was.
To say that games that do scale with i7 do not when you use a Core 2 isn't true. The difference is never that great, but in some situations, Warhead in particular, the i7 works better with 4 GPUs than Core 2s do. Not the case for anything but Quad graphics though, I'll make that plain.
As far as I'm concerned, if something does come out to eclipse the 4870X2s, be quick to jump on the bandwagon and sell your existing gear, and you will lose less than you might expect.
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25. February 2009 @ 18:56 |
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I fall into Estuansis' MAJOR NEED category with the 30" monitor. Would it be worth it? Would you guys do it if you were me? Would it possibly be a better way of future-proofing the system?
Well, if you have the funds and the need for that much graphics power, 4 GPUs can be justified. Be forewarned though that few games will benefit much from them out of the few that will scale at all. Crysis and Warhead are, IMO, worthy of the investment. But this is also why I'd prefer to stay at 1920 x 1200.
And remember that a single 4870X2 will play most other games maxed at this resolution without much issue.
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Neither the Phenom II (not the 940 at least) or the Q6600 are lacking in games performance, but on max CPU-bound settings, they can prove limiting, even without dual graphics. I didn't just upgrade to the Q9550 to show off, there really was a benefit to it.
Oh I definitely understand your position on the subject. You play at the mother of all resolutions and are in one of the few situations where the extra money spent is justified. Your gains in L4D have made that especially clear to me. Even at 1920 res, I am not entirely lag free in the most intense parts :P
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Agreed on not putting much weight on GTA4, but if more games in the future are like it (heaven forbid), it's wise to stay a little ahead of the game, especially with a relatively expensive new build, after all, I still spec Dual cores for the cheaper new builds.
I see your point and I agree wholeheartedly. Even if games in the future aren't that bad, it's better to be overkill than be sorry :D
Also agreed on dual cores. 90% of users will be fine with a dual core. But those of us with multiple GPUs practically need a quad to get the full benefit.
My stance on the subject is this:
Single core High end Card or Dual Mid-range cards = Fast dual core
Multiple high end cards = Needs a quad
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The Q6600 was a fabulous CPU, and to see it still here a considerable 15+ months after its release is quite impressive. However, it is no longer the ideal CPU it once was.
I understand your view. But also remember that most users ARE on a budget. And the Q6600 represents a fairly fast quad core for cheap. Yes, the newer stuff is faster, but the Q6600 is still cheaper ATM, and that makes it a good buy for those on a budget. Unless you use dual GTX280s or more than 2 HD4870s, the Q6600 is still a tremendous value for the relative performance.
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Reading that very closely, "does improve crossfire scaling" - in certain games. Games that without the brute force of the i7, DO NOT show much scaling.
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To say that games that do scale with i7 do not when you use a Core 2 isn't true. The difference is never that great, but in some situations, Warhead in particular, the i7 works better with 4 GPUs than Core 2s do. Not the case for anything but Quad graphics though, I'll make that plain.
Well, the basic idea is this: Really high end graphics solutions(2/3 GTX280s in SLI, 4 x HD4870 in CrossfireX) will encounter a processor bottleneck. This doesn't mean that they don't scale. It just means they don't scale as well as they could. The i7 alleviates this bottleneck and allows them to scale better.
Other than that, a single GTX280 or dual HD4870s work just fine with Core 2 Quads or Phenom IIs.
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As far as I'm concerned, if something does come out to eclipse the 4870X2s, be quick to jump on the bandwagon and sell your existing gear, and you will lose less than you might expect.
Agreed. The 4870X2 will still be worth quite a lot when the HD5000 series comes out. So you can sell what you have and pay a marginal price, really, for something better. I do this with most of my hardware. Or I trade it to friends and give them a mind blowing deal :D
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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25. February 2009 @ 19:00 |
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Few games will benefit in a clear cut - it's playable now, it ran like crap before, sort of way. However, the predominant thing I noticed with the 4870X2 is that while it ran most games fine at 2560x1600 4x, almost all of them had slight periods where the fps dipped into the 'ok' but not 'silky smooth' category, and these were removed by cutting the res or dropping the AA. Quad CF seems to have removed those, it's a subtle effect, but it's made quite a big impact to games.
Haha, trade to friends, exactly what I do - most of my hardware goes to fellow members of my LAN, I don't make as much money, but I don't get screwed, they're happy, and it's so much easier.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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25. February 2009 @ 20:08 |
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Wow. Again, between the two of you - there is a brilliant fount of wisdom and practical application sense available.
Originally posted by estuansis:
Oh I definitely understand your position on the subject. You play at the mother of all resolutions and are in one of the few situations where the extra money spent is justified. Your gains in L4D have made that especially clear to me. Even at 1920 res, I am not entirely lag free in the most intense parts :P
Yes, Sam plays at the mother of resolutions! - well said - and he sucked me into that 30" camp. It's unbelievably immmersive. I'm going through my Pacific Assault right now - "Tommy smoked that dude!" - and there is a more real quality to it now that my field of view is all action! I haven't even bothered trying to get the correct 4:3 going - I can't be bothered right now to re-install Catalyst.
So Sam with 4 gpus can stay silky smooth pushing 4 million pixels, when you, Estuansis, occasionally experience lag in the most intense parts with two gpus pushing 2.3 million pixels - amazing! - nice scaling on that game!
Originally posted by sam:
but if more games in the future are like it (heaven forbid), it's wise to stay a little ahead of the game, especially with a relatively expensive new build,
And thank you Estuansis for additional clarification: Originally posted by estuansis:
Well, the basic idea is this: Really high end graphics solutions(2/3 GTX280s in SLI, 4 x HD4870 in CrossfireX) will encounter a processor bottleneck..........The i7 alleviates this bottleneck and allows them to scale better.
That makes a boatload of sense.
So - if I have the budget - I'm reading you guys, "Sure, for 20% or $400 more - do the i7 thing. A little bit of staying slightly ahead of the game."
VERY interesting. Let me see if I can save this deal and round up the bucks for the new build, lol.
Regarding selling the parts later - right when the new stuff comes out - sounds like very good advice and it will be Ebay for me. Apart from you guys, I don't have any gaming buddies. Miles - the animator - is not a gamer. Lol. (He probably would be but his wife and little 2 year old girl don't give him time for that!)
Rich
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25. February 2009 @ 20:40 |
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I agree with pretty much everything else Estuansis said. The i7 alleviates the bottlenecks of extreme systems, but little else, the same for goes for quads in general, you won't see much gain with one card even if it's a GTX285, but as soon as you go dual, even an HD4850X2, a Quad is where it's at. The faster the cards you use, the better the CPU you should have to match, makes sense really.
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25. February 2009 @ 22:43 |
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Right. I believe that if you're going to go high end, you should do it completely. Your system is only going to be as fast as the slowest component. As such, if you're going to go dual graphics, get a quad. Really any decent quad will do. But if you're going to go beyond dual graphics, you need either a really fast 2nd gen quad like Sam's, or an i7.
He basically summed it up perfectly with this statement:
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The faster the cards you use, the better the CPU you should have to match, makes sense really.
I'd put it like this:
4870/GTX280 = any reasonably fast dual core
4870X2 or 4870 Crossfire/GTX280 SLI = any reasonably fast quad core
CrossfireX/Tri SLI = i7 or an OC'd 45nm quad
That's about as black and white as it gets.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2009 @ 22:43
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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26. February 2009 @ 07:31 |
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Ok, guys, thanks. That really makes a lot of sense.
I'm tearing myself away from Medal of Honor Pacific Assault. The "walk" down the river with my marine squad is almost indescribable. What a riveting experience. There are a lot of things in this game that make it one of the best of all time. Even though the graphics aren't quite as advanced as COD2 - things don't move when they get shot - that kind of stuff - the scenery is much more lush - jungle plants and trees and an incredible river. It's all really well done - the series was developed by Steven Spielberg. On this big screen - what an experience!!
I used End-it-all to turn everything off - all the background processes - but still hit lag at just below 30fps in parts, whereas COD2 was totally smooth. Graphically, I guess there is more going on. If I can't save the house sale and I have to settle for the mid-range upgrade rather than the new build, it will still be nice to play titles like this completely fluidly. The 4850x2 will take me quite far - not as far as you guys, but it will move me nicely in that direction for now.
Rich
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26. February 2009 @ 11:13 |
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If you do get an HD4850X2, remember to get the 2GB version... The 1GB will be useless at 2560x1600 when you apply AA.
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26. February 2009 @ 12:09 |
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Pacific Assault used a lot of really cool graphics tricks. I also like the rivers. The shader effects are perfect and the floating bodies are eerie. Fundamentally a shoddy game though, IMO. Too much corridor crawling, try and die, and poor hit detection. Still fun though. Definitely a noteworthy game.
Oh yeah, I retook my SATs in January for my own personal satisfaction. My only bad score was my Math which was like a 500. Got the scores today and upped it to 760!!! I even improved my other scores :D
So now I'm at:
Math 760
Critical Reading 650
Writing 660
That's 2070!! Man I'm so stoked. I can't believe I did it :D
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2009 @ 13:29
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26. February 2009 @ 15:39 |
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Jeff, VERY nice. Good job :D
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26. February 2009 @ 15:40 |
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I'd congratulate you, but I have no idea what those scores mean... :S
SATs here are just split into numeric levels like grade boundaries, but they're only used up until year 9 (13/14).
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26. February 2009 @ 15:42 |
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Sam basically those scores are out of 800 and they are used to get into University(13th). He kicked ass on the math.
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26. February 2009 @ 16:18 |
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Wow, nice. Do these SATS use a standardised marking scheme?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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26. February 2009 @ 16:25 |
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Congratulations on the high Sats Estuansis. You're obviously an extremely brainy guy, so I would attribute the lower earlier scores to not having prepared for the tests.
Wait, boozer just called you "Jeff." Is that your name? All this time I never knew!!! Thanks Booze. Yeah he kicked ass on the SATS!!
Regarding 2 gigs on the 4850x2 - that's a for sure, Sam. (The sapphire x2 only comes that way.) But if I were to do crossfire, with two separate cards, I would get 1 gig on each. The way that the purple line of the 2gig 4850x2 on that Far Cry 2 bench ended at 42fps at 2560x1600, whereas the crossfire 512mb 4850s nose-dived to 10-15 fps - that made a believer out of me right there! For 30" monitors I have absorbed one fact - you need huge VRAM on the board - the more the better!
Yeah, back to Pacific Assault - the hit detection is a little weak for sure - it takes some getting used to after the precision of COD2.
And there are a few strange things - let me share a funny one with all of you guys that happened to me yesterday!
When you are at Henderson, shooting down the bombers, either with the 50 caliber or that big interesting ack-ack thing - there is one dive bomber that refuses to be killed, even when you know exactly which one it is and you get him in the sights at the very beginning of the dive way up there, and then you throw all the lead in the world at the damn plane. He still lets go of the bomb, and there it drops. You can run all the way over to the little building and get inside, and you die anyway. Apparently that bomb is nuclear, lol. I remember getting so frustrated a couple years ago, until I finally figured out that you are supposed to be revived by your corpsman - is it "Sully?" It seems that "Help me out Sully!" sounds kind of familiar. I played 14 hours yesterday and I can't remember the guy's name. So a couple years ago when I first played the game, I finally figured out to run over to him right when I heard "Tommy get out of there." But yesterday that didn't work. He wasn't reviving me. Time after time.
But the nice part about the game is the F5 quick save, and F9 quick load. Valve also uses a Quick Save and I like that feature. I use it all the time. Like you say "Try and die." What's wrong with that? Hahahaha.
So after hitting F9 about 20 times, and the stupid sonovabitch wouldn't save me each time, I gave up on even manning any weapon to shoot the planes down. I sat there and watched him get flattened by the explosion, and then not fix me up - I'm pressing H (call for Medic) like mad.
(By the way, I used J for the first time - I never used it before - J is for apply bandage. When you get poked by a bayonet as you're emptying a clip on the guy - or if you step on a sharpened bamboo stake - even if you lose only a few points of health - your heart starts pounding and the health starts dropping one point a second - but if you press J and apply the bandage, it stops. I got a slight bayonet stab, applied the bandage, and ended up at 80 points health - no need to get treated by the medic which I save for when I'm down to 20.)
So I said to myself, "What the hell do I have to do to get saved around here?" - and then I just lay there next to him, and I started shooting my medic buddy in the head. It was funny. I started with the single shot rifle, and his head bucked back, and then I switched to full automatic - right in his glasses, lol. AND THEN THE SONOVABITCH GOT UP AND BACKED UP A FEW STEPS!!! And when the bomb came, this time he saved me - the damn program had gotten stuck!!!!! Don't you just love sh*t like that. Hahahahahahaha.
But all in all, I treasure this game. Weird glitches like that - I can forgive them all. The mood of going down that river - the beautiful chirping of the birds, the gloom of the dense fog over the boggy marshy part of the river with the constant buzz of the mosquitoes, and like you say the dead bodies floating by from time to time - MAN!! And in 30 inches - damn! it has so much impact!!! I think I could actually play through it again in six months with a stronger non-laggy system!
(I just read another review looking for the guy's name - and apparently the havoc physics was very advanced for its time - a bridge will explode in pieces, and parts will hit the river - splash! and then bob back up to the surface realistically depending on how big the piece is! I haven't noticed - it all just looks fabulous!)
HOLY SHIT - HOLD THE PRESSES! In trying to find the medics name, I just found the following Review of Pacific Assault:
"Then the time changed when the majority of the "2015" team, who developed MOHAA, left and started their own company: Infinity Ward."
Goddamn it! No wonder it is such a great game - Infinity Ward of COD2 and COD4!!! Did all the rest of you guys already know that? They say the group left after the Spearhead expansion pack. My God!!
Did I say My God enough times. Infinity Ward developed the original MOH!!!!
WAIT A MINUTE! The review I am reading of Pacific Assault is AFTER the dudes of Infinity Ward had left. They say the next expansion pack, Breakthrough, unlike Spearhead, both of which I own, was weak without those dudes. So they say at the beginning of this review - how will EA handle Pacific Assault? So I have to back up a bit - my favorite MOH of all time, Pacific Assault, was not an Infinity Ward production - it was something started by those dudes, but developed by EALA - entertainment arts at los angeles - by a team they put together and a new havoc physics engine. Well, they did a damn nice job in my book!
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2009 @ 16:28
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. February 2009 @ 17:49 |
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Nope, there is a 1GB and a 2GB HD4850X2, so I wanted to make sure you'd get the right one. Sapphire are the only company to produce the 4850X2, it's their product, not ATI's.
A Infinity Ward game developed by EA sums it all up - a good game (infinity ward) that has bugs (EA).
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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26. February 2009 @ 18:22 |
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A Infinity Ward game developed by EA sums it all up - a good game (infinity ward) that has bugs (EA).
Hahahaha. Well put Sam.
I DID NOT KNOW that sapphire made another flavor of the 4850x2 for a few bucks less with not as much memory. Thanks for covering my back. That would be a DEADLY mistake to make. No question about it - the 2 gig version for sure - and max VRAM from now on I should add. LOL.
By the way, since we're on the subject of sapphire, correct me if I am wrong, but I think you own two Sapphire 4870x2 boards, is that right? But even if one or both is a different make, each of your boards is basically the reference ATI single turbine fan design, isn't it? I recall THAT fan is supposed to get rather loud fan under high-rev conditions, yet you said that you could barely hear the fans four feet away from the case. Did you mean in idle or under load?
Are you satisfied with the brand of 4870x2 that you own, from the noise perspective, or would you still rather you had Palits, if two of those would fit on a motherboard (did we ever decide if two Palits would fit on an x48 board with at least one slot separation for breathing?) I'm asking in the remote chance this house sale doesn't die - it's hanging on by a thread lol.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. February 2009 @ 18:26 |
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Nope, I own one Sapphire 4870X2 and one ATI engineering sample card. Both are almost identical in design though, minor changes to the board layout, and the Sapphire does not have the green OK leds at the front.
I meant under idle, both cards are very quiet. Audible alright, but not behind the idle noise of the Corsair PSU.
Under load they get a bit raucous, but that's to be expected.
From what I hear, the Palits aren't really much different in this regard, though they probably produce a less irritating sort of noise. That said, even if you could fit two into a motherboard, the lack of angled venting means the top card could be starved for airflow and overheat.
I'm eagerly awaiting a review of Arctic Cooling's official product for the 4870X2.
http://www.hardwaresphere.com/2009/02/18...arctic-cooling/
Not a cheap cooler though, buying a pair of them for a quad CF config will cost as much as an HD4850.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2009 @ 18:29
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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26. February 2009 @ 18:49 |
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Wait, boozer just called you "Jeff." Is that your name? All this time I never knew!!!
Yeah that's me.
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He kicked ass on the math.
I studied really damn hard. I didn't want to be held back by my weakest subject.
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so I would attribute the lower earlier scores to not having prepared for the tests.
So would I, LOL. I didn't study at all and I choked in some parts. I was too sure of myself. This time around I took some practice tests to acquaint myself with the subject matter. It helped keep my memory fresh.
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From what I hear, the Palits aren't really much different in this regard, though they probably produce a less irritating sort of noise. That said, even if you could fit two into a motherboard, the lack of angled venting means the top card could be starved for airflow and overheat.
Palit tries a lot of cool ideas and releases some great cards. Their 8800GT 1GB was rocking. They've done both ATi and Nvidia cards now both with impressive OC results. The coolers are usually really good too.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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26. February 2009 @ 19:54 |
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No question about it, practice tests work really well. Very smart thing to have done, Jeff!
LOL I am so used to Estuansis - but I'll slip Jeff in there from time to time - good ol boozer!
Well, we all sort of love the Palit,
but the 3-slot width is a little problematic for considering using two of the beasts.
Sam, that 4870x2 arctic cooler you referenced looks freakin awesome
especially when you flip it over and look at the back - 8 heat pipes - look at the fins.
That brings me back to my Asus 3 fan 4870x2 design that I had read a lot of good reviews about on newegg - despite having zero heatpipes and aluminum fins - basically the 3 fans seemed to be at the sound level of one 120mm fan many reviewers said. Here it is:
You don't get all the heat pipes and you may not get as good of cooling results therefore, but the cost is buried in the competitive board price. You said cost of 4850 - single card - for two of them, so price of about $75 each??
By the way Sam, I had just started to get used to db ratings - I know that 20 db is pretty silent, 30 is somewhat silent but noticeable, 40 is not loud but beginning to make itself heard, etc.
What the hell does 0.5 sones translate into with all three artic cooling fans going at max 2000 rpm? Well I googled it, and wikipedia says 20-30 db, a "very calm room", translates to 0.15 to 0.4 sones, therefore 0.5 sones is slightly above that. "Normal talking within 3 feet" is 40-60 db, or 1 to 4 sones. I guess 0.5 sones is pretty quiet, maybe 35 db.
The arctic is a nice looking product!
Rich
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