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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 10:08 |
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Again Sam, great graphs to put it in perspective. You are indeed the most helpful, knowledgeable, and the best poster in the hardware forums. You are a great asset to Afterdawn and one of the reasons I've stayed so long :)
The 4890 and GTX275 are looking to both be awesome cards. I just recommended a 4890 to a friend looking for the fastest single core ATi card. He loves it :)
And on review sites. I personally like HardOCP and Anandtech. They seem relatively unbiased...
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2009 @ 10:10
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 10:25 |
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Across 3 of the 4 titles they are, yes, but look what those 3 titles are - Far Cry 2, Crysis Warhead and Call of Duty:World at War, the very three titles that ATI cards always fall down on. Realistically though I am tempted to say GTX275 SLI will be the better option this point. If they do ever make an HD4890X2 though, that on its own will work out the better value product. As things stand right now though, needing to use two cards regardless, and them being identically priced, for those who will be using i7, I think it's time nvidia were back in the limelight.
Estuansis: Thanks very much for the complimet. Coming from a member as wise as yourself, that's high praise indeed.
I wouldn't necessarily criticise Anandtech for bias per se, more that they've published a few dubious results in the past, the coolers one being the most obvious. HardOCP results have always impressed me, for one because they take 2560x1600 the most seriously of all the test sites, but also due to the comprehensive way they analyse their data. Unfortunately, as was pointed out, this does leave more common ground less covered, and realistically, 1920x1200 is these cards' area of expertise. 2560 should really be left to the multi-GPU setups. That said, the GTX275 on a few occasions is stealing the title of fastest single GPU card off the GTX285, which costs 50% more. I don't forsee the GTX285 sticking around very long.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2009 @ 10:30
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4. April 2009 @ 10:31 |
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That's the kind of honest opinion I'm looking for. And the decision is - GTX275 Sli :) Too right nvidia need some share of the spotlight, ever since the 4870 came out nvidia has been pretty crap. Now I have to wait a week or so for some more brands to come out.. at the moment it's only Palit lol.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 10:32 |
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I have no qualms with Palit as a manufacturer, but the best of the nvidia bunch in my mind are XFX and BFG. Since the Geforce 8 series, nvidia's hardware has actually improved. The sudden rise of ATI was a bit of a shock to the system for nvidia though and is perhaps what prompted the further complexity of their already hideous product naming system. The only reason nvidia products have not sold well is that they were overpriced. With the GTX275 at least, that looks like it's coming to an end. Right now, you're likely to find a GTX275 cheaper than an HD4890. Due to the closeness of competition outside the three main whoring games though, if ATI were to cut the cost of the HD4890 below the £200 mark by any significant margin, it'd be a more difficult decision. One thing I do question is the GTX275's alarmingly high load power usage, and high temperatures. I am beginning to wonder if they are actually now second best on the heat/noise front. No big deal for 90% of gamers, but those who go for the top cooling and/or silencing route may find ATi the preferred choice for that. Shame about the idle consumption though, that's something the Radeons are particularly poor for this generation.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2009 @ 10:36
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4. April 2009 @ 10:36 |
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And I bet in my beautiful country they will cost 20 bucks more per card. Lol.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 10:37 |
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They would anywhere in most circumstances. Also, see above edit :)
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4. April 2009 @ 10:49 |
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Yeah about those temperatures... I saw 90 degrees for the gtx275 at load... and I thought to myself "holy crap what if I want to overclock?" The radeon did much better for cooling, and overclocked to 1ghz core and 4.8ghz memory which I thought was pretty damn good
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 10:54 |
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Not quite, 1Ghz core if 4.7 memory, 985mhz core if 4.8 memory (the latter would perform better I think).
The temperatures are indeed a worry for overclocking, but they did not seem to stunt the GTX275's performance. Either way, there's still a lot of breathing room for increasing the fan speed, it's normal load fan speed is 55%.
The Radeon managed:
Core: 850 -> 985 or 1Ghz (15.9% or 17.6%)
Memory: 3900 -> 4700 or 4800 (20.5% or 23.1%)
The Geforce managed:
Core: 633 -> 745 (17.7%)
Shader: 1404 -> 1652 (17.7%)
Memory: 2268 -> 2590 (14.2%)
Results taken from the Bit-Tech results. Other sites have all reported similar gains with the Radeon at least, not too much info on the Geforce.
Again, here are the earlier graphs of the impact of this on performance:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8546/btcryoc4890ave.gif
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3016/btcryoc4890min.gif
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2009 @ 10:55
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4. April 2009 @ 11:00 |
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That OC did pretty good for the 275. Good to see.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 12:28 |
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Does the 4890 crossfire with the 4870 like the 4870 does with the 4850? Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see it done :)
Right now I'm in the process of a full transfer to Vista on my Crossfire machine. XP is getting old :(
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 12:44 |
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From what I hear it will with any 4800, the 4830 included. With the obvious performance degradation though, of course.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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4. April 2009 @ 20:40 |
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Omega - yeah, the photoshop work turned out excellent. Your sig is very cool. Let's see, "NIN" - your name is Kevin, so I get the "IN" but where did the first "N" come from? LOL (Regarding the final fantasy with NOT Enya, it was nice - but nobody was carrying a p90 so I had a hard time relating . . . . )
Sam, you're raining on my parade - are you thinking that we may never see a 4890x2? Don't say that!
I guess I failed to read the 4890 fine print - I glossed over the part about tweaking the RV770 chip and making it a little more energy efficient (I thought) and cooler.
So you're saying that a quad 4890 solution would pull 120 watts more than a quad 4870 solution, pushing one from an 850 watt psu to 1000 watts minimum. Well, for an extra $45, zalman makes a nice 1000 watt psu, same heat pipe design as the 850, and which runs just about as quiet - newegg has it for $215. Actually I had already decided to get that one to build in a little bit of capacitor aging - but sounds like quad 4890 would take up that slack. Some of the power gaming rig newegg reviewers use 1200 watt power supplies - I'm beginning to see why.
Rubix and Sam, I can't believe how you guys like to trash good old Anand - and to think his site used to be the definitive place for quality unbiased tech reporting - what happened?
Rubix, the DFI H8 is now at Newegg, it's not $150 more, it's only $50 more than the H6 version, and the package contents DO mention a cf bridge - but thanks for scaring us, haha.
There is some kind of a Bernstein audio module, whatever that is, but no optical. The board looks completely different to me with a lot more substantial chipset cooling, which Sam also noted, including a heat pipe to the south bridge. One review - maybe it was the hardware cannucks - talked about heat pipes everywhere. If you can live without the optical port the $50 looks well worth it.
Nice graphs Sam as always. (Who needs Anandtech when we've got Sam Morris!) So you're saying that Nvidia has a winner with the 275. However, you suggested that multi-gpu systems (2560x1600 res) requiring careful consideration about load power and temps - (and not too much concern about idle power draw like myself - either my gaming rig is killing nazis like crazy or it's turned off haha) might tip the scales toward ati - correct me if I misunderstood.
For me I'll remain a firm ati fanboy for the forseeable future - I saw nvidia gobble up innovative 3dfx and I wouldn't like to see the same fate befall AMD nor ATI any time soon. We need some healthy competition - particularly with all those games that "whore" to nvidia (to quote sam - crysis, cw, farcry2, cod5) and pump up its ratings, lol.
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 21:26 |
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LOL. NIN is Nine Inch Nails. A very awesome Industrial Rock band. My second favorite :D Im going through a phase of Nine inch Nails right now, thats all LOL! They're one of the few bands left, that are worth spending money on! Yes(LOL), when music is good, I pay!
Nobody was carrying a P90????? Im not sure what you mean by that.
My original sig, "K3" was a nick name given by a mong friend! If anyone is wondering, My initials are KKK. Obviously I didnt name myself. NO, im far from racist LOL! So needless to say, IM NOT in the, "Ku Klux Klan!" Both my parents and Grandparents, "Thought it would be Neat!" I thought that was pretty funny when I heard that. I asked them if The K-K-K had occurred to them, when it came time to name me. It had! I guess it doesnt bother me too much. Ive had several Black, Chinese, Mong friends, that didnt seem bothered by my initials. But I am still self conscious about it.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2009 @ 21:29
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2009 @ 22:01 |
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What happened to Anandtech was they claimed a Freezer 7 Pro ($20-$30 92mm fan cooler) was better than a Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme (Then the best of the best of the $50 120mm coolers).
As for the 1200W PSUs, no such thing really exists, they're all the same as the Corsair HX 1000W. Trouble is, they're all as noisy as it too.
I had a thought today about how much better nvidia really are faring in some mainstream titles. Then I realised, the game I play most is Left 4 Dead. Even one HD4870X2 obliterates a GTX295 in that, and Quad SLI scales negatively. Coversely, from first hand experience I can say Quad CF definitely scales positively!
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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5. April 2009 @ 01:20 |
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I Wonder how many of you remember this little Gem! Give you a hint. 1987. The very first game I got addicted to :D Oh...heh heh, I suppose you could cheat if your so inclined. The title is within the images address.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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5. April 2009 @ 01:33 |
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Nine inch nails, of course. I knew that. :P
... really .... I swear.
So, K.K.K. you're self conscious about your initials. Why?? I don't get it. ........
A p90 is a submachine gun. If a game doesn't have one, I can't relate. Those final fantasy dudes were, like ... kissing .... and jumping off mountains and ... flying ..... and using big knife things with handles ..... and there was singing ..... Very nice.
back to nine inch nails.....
SLI scales negatively in Left 4 Dead - hahaha - good for Valve.
Damn, having Miles (in Cabo San Lucas for a week with all of Valve) do the animation for that game - having a lifetime valve pass to all their games - but not having a computer that will run it - bums me out. Actually, valve games scale well with weak equipment when you turn off effects, so I could probably play it with a 5,000 3dmark6 system.
Since you're a regular player, sam, even to the point that it's the game you play most - I'll have to get with the program. But how many things will I have to turn off to play at full screen, or should I think in terms of a small box in the middle?
Rich
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5. April 2009 @ 05:03 |
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@harvrdguy: Lol, thanks bud but unfortunately I live in australia, and the t3eh8 is $520, whereas the t3eh6 is only $395.
@omegaman7: its zelda! lol.
Gigabyte 3d Aurora 570 | Coolermaster Real Power M1000 | Core i7 920 @ 4.0ghz w/ Coolermaster V10 | DFI LanParty DK-X58-T3EH6 | Evga GTX275 SLI @ FTW clocks | 3x2GB Patriot 1600mhz | Seagate 500GB x2, 1.5TB, FreeAgentPro 500GB | Dell 2408WFP | Windows 7 Professional x64
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. April 2009 @ 15:07 |
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Lol so P90 or you're not interested eh, Rich? Haha, the P90 is one of my favourites too, especially in COD4. It's nice in CS:S too.
Left 4 Dead Scales really well, I think it would run on your current system actually, but it's such a good game, having it look good and run smooth makes it all the more enjoyable. Video-wise, you're probably safe up to about 1680x1050, maybe with some AA on high detail. CPU limit I'm not sure though, everyone I know who's played it has a dual core or better.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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5. April 2009 @ 21:50 |
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LOL. I was looking at Left 4 Dead at the store. Since Ive loved every GTA thats been released, I decided on GTA IV! Deciding factor being, I am hitting the recommended limits. Originally when I looked at the packaging, I thought I was hitting the Minimum requirements! Its not in my nature to be that cheap! Im not gonna TRY to hit the bare minimum of requirements LOL! So actually, Im well within the requirements! Im running the Red zone!
Requirements for GTA IV are:
Nvida 7900 256mb/ati x1900 - Nvida Asus 8600GT 512mb
1.5gb vista/1gb XP - 4Gb Ram soon to be 8Gb
16gb hard space - Negligible LOL!
Processor Core 2 duo 1.8/athlon X2 2.4 - Phenom X4 3.5Ghz
And the REAL question here is, should I install it on windows 7, and avoid SP3 on XP(required), or should I grit my teeth, and hope it meshes well on my system(XP)? I guess I'll be trying windows 7 anyway, for experimentation's sake! I'll post figures about my success! installation time, smoothness, frame rate, etc.
Oh...if anyone could recommend a temp monitor(during gameplay) much appreciated. What I mean is, a tiny little temperature to display during game play. Thanks in advance :D
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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5. April 2009 @ 22:44 |
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Actually, you don't meet the recommended requirements. The 8600GT is more comparable in speed to a 7600GT. Not terrible, but by no means capable in GTA4. I wouldn't try it on anything less than an 8800GS/HD3850.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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5. April 2009 @ 23:13 |
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Well...the overall installation took 25 min. However, Im having a couple issues im still working with. Windows 7! I think I almost have it though. I realize my card isnt that great. But I wanted the game anyway, and i'll be upgrading soon anyway. :) Just an experiment.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2009 @ 23:14
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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6. April 2009 @ 00:26 |
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Ok. It seems to be running now. Minus the Live B.S. and Rockstar Social B.S.! Every time I run the game now, its gonna ask me about a stupid Windows Games Live update! And it'll lock up half the processor!!! So I may not be playing live anytime soon!
Rockstar...you really screwed up with this one!!! The game looks awesome, but the installation is such a headache, your gonna upset A LOT of people! Im now seeing a viable reason for purchasing a console. But I doubt it. I'll just be super upset!!!
Question. Would the game run better on the onboard Ati 3300 or would it do better on my 8600GT? The game play seemed unhindered, but video playback stuttered a bit(ran hotter than ive seen too). Probably gonna end up lowering the Res from 1680 anyway. It seemed to default to it. Because while the card is capable of 1920 Res, it would not allow it!
And, is the Xbox controller the only controller supported? If thats the case, micro$oft can forget my future support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok...a patch seemed to resolve a few issues. But im still unsure of how to use my current controller! Gonna have to look into it. Liking the game alot by the way. VERY high detail!!! This game just made me itch even more for a higher grade GPU. I make the purchase TONIGHT!!!!!
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. April 2009 @ 00:49
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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6. April 2009 @ 01:07 |
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Nah you're 8600GT is much faster than the onboard HD3300. It is comparable to an HD3600 series card. But IMO the 8600GT is one of the worst cards ever. It was no faster than the 7600GT and is actually slower than my 4 year old X850XT. Though the 9600GT redeemed this product line in my eyes. I have one and it's a little demon for the price :)
Good luck on the upgrade. Be sure to let us know which card you get :)
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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6. April 2009 @ 01:08 |
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Honestly! Who in their right mind, wants to play a game with their keyboard! And not everybody owns an Xbox. So...im F%$&^ed!!! Rockstar just left a bad taste in my mouth!!! As well as M$
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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6. April 2009 @ 01:13 |
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Generally, I prefer my keyboard and mouse seeing as most of my games are FPS. More intuitive for me and so much more precise than a joystick. Driving games and console ports get the 360 controller though :)
Been playing Grid a lot lately. The graphics are phenomenal and the races are fun. I still prefer Dirt though. I'm more into real racing than arcadey action. And, being a 360 port, it automatically detects my 360 controller with full rumble support :)
Also, GTA IV is generally accepted as one of the worst console ports ever made.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. April 2009 @ 01:16
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