|
|
|
The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
13. June 2009 @ 13:05 |
Link to this message
|
|
A 450VX is sufficient power, but it will need an adapter cable to run a two-connector card.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
Member
|
13. June 2009 @ 13:09 |
Link to this message
|
|
If its an XFX or one of the other high end cards it will come with the adapter anyways.
I could put something funny here but I cant be arsed. Now GO AWAY! |
AfterDawn Addict
|
13. June 2009 @ 14:36 |
Link to this message
|
|
Already got one of those with the 8800GT :)
And wadaya know, coulda sworn it was TX, but just looked at the box and Sam's right :o
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB |
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
|
13. June 2009 @ 18:26 |
Link to this message
|
Yeah but you're running a 19" screen, you'll only need a 512MB card. That should save a bit of money and let you max almost anything, even Crysis, completely. On a bigger screen, 1GB can help with some games but you'll be fine with 512MB.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
13. June 2009 @ 18:30 |
Link to this message
|
Sam's always right - well, ALMOST always. hehe
But regarding tank, a bunch of guys are saying that for Advanced, flaming tank runs faster than non-flaming tank.
Interestingly enough, while Sam doesn't think that is true, he DOES subscribe to the idea - don't light the tank during finale.
However, Sam, I don't follow your reasoning - you say it's not usually safe to run anywhere (I guess meaning smokers and hunters) but, if you are right, and a flaming tank IS NOT ANY FASTER than a non-flaming tank, why not light him anyway?
But from my point of view, you don't light him during the Advanced finales, BECAUSE THAT MAKES HIM FASTER. I can't prove it, and it could just be my imagination, but it DOES seem to me from personal experience that the tank gets himself all riled up and he runs faster meaning he tends to catch up to people easier, WHEN HE IS BURNING UP!
I can tell you that if I were burning up - my adrenaline would be pumping into me and hyping me up to the max!! So don't get Mr Tank any more excited than he already is - let him lumber along like the Jolly Orange Giant. Don't set him on fire, just blast him to death!!
When the tank is not on fire, I know from the Developer Commentary, and from talking with Miles, that a player on green can outrun the tank. (I'm not talking Expert.) That's why they added the ability for the tank to tear up a piece of ground and throw it, because from massive play-testing, the tank was too easy to defeat until they did that.
So for sure, duck or dodge the concrete, but following the recommended 1-2 punch advanced finale tactics, 1. don't light him, 2. almost everybody auto-shottie, I guarantee no problemo regarding tank.
(Sam, neither you nor Jeff commented - can you shoot the concrete and break it up with the assault rifle or shotgun - do you know?)
Note Sam's extremely good point correcting my estimated time to take out the tank. He said 2 seconds with 4 guys on auto-shottie for 5000 health tank (survival mode) which allows you to kill the tank before needing to reload.
I had said "well then 3 seconds for 7500 health Advanced tank" failing to take into consideration reload time. GREAT POINT SAM!
So that makes my earlier tentative suggestion about holding your ground and one guy sacrificing himself and getting pinned, not so brilliant after all. Following Sam's reasoning, that would leave 3 guys blasting away, and probably running out of rounds, while the tank is delivering those killer blows.
Let me tell you what happened to me. I didn't put in my last post about the 4 finales, but I DID try the sacrifice method on No Mercy with the first tank, saying to the team "unload on him" as soon as I was pinned. The result was that I was VERY DEAD!! I said in embarrassment to the team, "Well THAT didn't work" as they then had to try to handle the rest of the finale (everybody killed, lol.) Now I know why - they ran out of shells on Advanced 7500 health tank. Thanks for explaining Sam!
Originally posted by Rich backpedalling on earlier Hold Your Ground theory:
So I now reject that earlier rather tentative suggestion. The new advice is: DO NOT hold your ground! If you're the one getting chased, then run. Do not get pinned by the tank!
I can't speak for Expert. Sam is saying that evidence shows that an Expert tank runs faster than a player.
I'll be chiming in with Expert finale tactics, much later in the year, lol.
Sam, by the way, regarding your comment to Jeff - what's so special about LED hdtv's vs regular lcd. (And don't they cost a bloody fortune?)
Rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
13. June 2009 @ 19:48 |
Link to this message
|
Yeah, in a way i'm sort of blessed by having a small screen ;)
And @ harvrdguy - LED TVs are sort of incorrectly named; they're LCD panels that are backlit by LEDs, they use less power than normal TVs, have better colour gamut, and can have a greater dynamic contrast ratio - in dark areas of a picture LEDs can be turned off, but note that this is NOT pixel per pixel, and so is inexact and sometimes doesn't work all too well (say if you had text in an otherwise dark area).
OLED TVs which are still very new (there's only one commercially available OLED panel so far and that's a hugely expensive 11" from Sony) are self lit, as in each pixel produces its own light. These therefore don't need a backlight at all and therefore use less power and can also be used in VERY thin displays (Sony showed off a display 3mm thick). They are capable of producing very vivid colours and because each pixel has its own light, can produce huge contrast levels.
All in all, i'd wait for OLED technology to be refined ;) They're already used widely in small displays (3" etc.), along with AMOLED, it's just about making them bigger :P
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
13. June 2009 @ 21:40 |
Link to this message
|
|
Wow, good info shokz. So some really wild colors and lighting will be showing themselves in - what - three-five years with the OLED technology? - by then hopefully affordable at 24"?
Edit: And I wanted to add this little note about tank speed on Expert:
I jumped on the game just now for an hour, single player, to check auto shottie - I had remembered 8 bullets per round - but Sam said 10 - that's the correct number. (A full 4 or 5 seconds to reload - sooo long!!) While I was at it, I tried just a bit of Expert with the bots on No Mercy finale. It was a joke. No matter where I was able to get the bots to hold still, ammo, stairway, roof, right roof, top roof, really high middle roof, Expert is hopeless with bots.
Anyway, in those dozen attempts, we picked up a tank a few times before getting out on the roof. One time the tank was chasing me down the hallway. I was running backward firing assault rifle. While I was running backward (note it was only about 30 feet - just a few seconds) as I remember it now, I did not get any type of feeling that he was running faster than normal.
I am trying to remember if I had the feeling that he was gaining on me - in other words out-running me. Of course another question is: Do you run just as fast backward as forward? I DO remember that I was about to turn around and run straight back to the safe room, before he suddenly ducked into that large double-door room after the bots. So maybe I DID have the uncomfortable feeling that he was gaining on me. At least he wasn't trying to rip chunks of flooring up and throw them at me!
In any case, I guess what Sam and I are discussing - does he run faster on Expert? - does he run faster when he is burning? - the difference is probably only about 10%.
But a bunch of people are saying that the extra 10% in speed occurs when he is on fire, and he can then outrun a player. So on finales, I still say, don't light him. Sam agrees.
That's all I wanted to say. Hopefully in a month or two or three, with a good crew, we'll be testing these Expert tank speed theories out, lol.
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. June 2009 @ 22:12
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
13. June 2009 @ 22:04 |
Link to this message
|
The reason why I say not to run during the finales is that there are too many dangerous places about. For instance in No Mercy, Smokers can grab you from all kinds of angles pulling you off ledges such that it's very difficult for you to be successfully revived. Lighting the tank is using a molotov you could use for something else and it also makes it more difficult for you to see what's happening.
I have never seen any instance where a tank has been on fire where it has even appeared to move faster, whether or not that has actually been the case and remember, I've been playing left 4 Dead since November 08.
Yes you can destroy rocks with firepower, but it takes several bullets from the Colt or I think two shells from a shotgun to do it, possibly three. They're tough rocks.
I'm aware that LED backlit LCDs exist, but as far as I'm aware that's not actually what LED TVs are. As far as I knew they were genuine LED TVs which is why the contrast ratio was in the millions.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
13. June 2009 @ 22:28 |
Link to this message
|
|
Good points Sam - you were posting when I was editing.
Yes, you are right. If some of the better players hadn't started insisting that he runs faster when burning, I would never have noticed it, nor mentioned it. I have limited experience with the game, first of all, and burning tanks second of all. There was that one time when he seemed to have caught up with me - and who knows, maybe he lobbed something at me that stopped me in my tracks. I've had that happen other times with a non-burning tank.
But, whether or not he actually runs faster, you certainly have a great point that if he is on fire it's really hard to see what is going on - the fire extends out from him a good ways and if a buddy is near it's dangerous to shoot. That alone is a good reason not to light him in a finale. And you're right - save the molotov for when the helicopter arrives.
And I see your other point - everybody staying close to the tank means that you'll always have help if a smoker or hunter gets you. One more good reason to Chase The Tank! (LOL, everybody grab auto shottie forces you to stay close to the tank - since those things don't work past 30-40 feet, hahaha)
Rich
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
13. June 2009 @ 22:30 |
Link to this message
|
|
The one thing to notice about the tank is the route it takes is direct (Assuming it's AI controlled). If you zig-zag around the map, keeping an eye on your team mates or looking for health/ammo, you'll find that the tank quickly catches you.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. June 2009 @ 01:05 |
Link to this message
|
|
Hmmmm. Good warning.
Sam's warning about not zig zagging around the map, upon finding yourself being chased by a tank, is one more reason for the "stay close and circle around" strategy during the finales.
Tips from Rich on Advanced Finales -->
1. Barn: stay on rafters - with everybody firing he usually can't climb up, shotgun guys positioned across from ladder, which is directly above where he tries to climb up, m16 guys anywhere (if you do fall off or tank manages to climb up and scares you off, circle to hay bales that, if you have green health, you can jump up on to get to roof, otherwise climb back up on ladder - assuming tank is not right there, lol);
2. Hospital: (stairs defense - seems like the best - shoot small holes in doors so you can see - closet can also work but not as fun - defend around ammo worked with bots but not on expert - I never tried with a real team - roof, or top of roof, seems to suck - the smokers always pull somebody off - it's hard to spot them in all the confusion) for tank everybody change to auto shotties, if you get chased circle by going upstairs, jump off roof, repeat;
3. Boat: (deck or upstairs or minigun defense) everybody grabs auto shotgun, if you're chased, circle by going upstairs, jump to back deck, repeat (for exciting 'new' wharf defense, stay there and kill him during his leisurely stroll (lol) toward you on the pier - at least two on team closer to middle have auto shotguns - at least one team member, or maybe one on each side of wharf, has hunting rifle or assault rifle for smokers - everybody dual pistols most of the non-tank time since you never go back for ammo or health - everybody switch to primary weapon when tank gets to the pier);
4. Airplane (hill or rope or airplane wing defense - hill seems to be working best and is closest to health and guns) for tank everybody grabs auto shotgun and circles the escape plane. Then everybody switches back to weapon of choice for hill defense.
For all of these, it's nice to hold back pipes and molotovs for the final escape.
The exception is barn (well you could always throw some pipes way far off I guess.) If you stay up in loft until escape vehicle drops the ramp, which is what I recommend, make sure somebody with assault rifle is looking back at the spot above the ladder where the smokers and hunters get set - we didn't do that last time but we were lucky - then everybody drops together when somebody yells "jump". You should be in the truck in 2-3 seconds before the horde and specials know you've left the barn.
Rich
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
14. June 2009 @ 01:06 |
Link to this message
|
|
double-post - how??
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. June 2009 @ 01:08
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
14. June 2009 @ 20:43 |
Link to this message
|
@ sammoris - Nope, current LED screens are all side or back-lit with LEDs but have normal LCD screens :(
And in the end i ordered a Gainward GTX 260 Golden Sample for £129.94 ;)
You can see benchmarks for it here, can't shake a stick at the performance over reference.
Card will be here on Tuesday ^.^
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. June 2009 @ 22:33 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yes but is it 192 or 216 core? If it's 192, the HD4870 would have been a much better buy.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
14. June 2009 @ 22:53 |
Link to this message
|
|
216 core; but I was mainly persuaded to go with a GTX260 because of PhysX - can't do without my PhysX, now, can I :D Also seems the 4870 uses more power at full load, so I was thinking of my poor little power supply at the time ;)
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
14. June 2009 @ 22:54 |
Link to this message
|
Well...I certainly like my 216 Core BFG 260GTX. It was a much needed upgrade! Im sure the 4870 is no slouch though. In fact, I recall your saying its better, however not with GTA IV. Which is really too bad. I probably would have gave ati a go. I certainly like the PhenomII. In fact, I think im IN LOVE with it. LOL! Totally joking.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
14. June 2009 @ 22:55 |
Link to this message
|
Not really, if anything the reverse, the 4870 uses more at idle, the 260 more at load. PhysX is a common argument by the nvidia fanatics. I don't really see it myself, usually all it does is improve performance a little bit or enable negligible extra effects. Given some of the shortcuts nvidia cards take for games, as far as I'm concerned if you want all of the graphical detail in a game you can get you should really be considering ATI.
There is of course the matter of game preference, most games the difference is are slight (<7 or 8% you'll rarely see the difference in real life), but some games offer big advantages. Cryostasis for example will basically only run on nvidia cards. GRiD and HAWX on the other hand run much better with ATI hardware. GTA4 and Crysis are on the 'reasonable' side of nvidia preferent. Valve software such as Left 4 Dead and Half Life 2 games are on the other side. Generally among the best games get equal or better performance on Radeons (because the developers aren't cheap TWIMTBP sellouts). There are of course a few exceptions.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. June 2009 @ 22:57
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
14. June 2009 @ 23:11 |
Link to this message
|
|
In most of the games the 4870 leads the GTX260 in, the non reference card seems to close the gap and overtake in certain cases. Anyway, I'm happy, won't upgrade again now until I'm faced with a complete new build :)
And ahem - it was only in the olden days ATI had better detail :P
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. June 2009 @ 23:12
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
14. June 2009 @ 23:28 |
Link to this message
|
|
ahh sam, the ever ati man :P
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
15. June 2009 @ 09:02 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by Shokz:
In most of the games the 4870 leads the GTX260 in, the non reference card seems to close the gap and overtake in certain cases. Anyway, I'm happy, won't upgrade again now until I'm faced with a complete new build :)
And ahem - it was only in the olden days ATI had better detail :P
Actually it still happens now, just nowhere near as much :P
The whole point of that strategy was to cut off as much graphical detail as possible without being immediately noticeable, and was done at the time due to the pathetic performance of the Geforce FX. By basically turning high detail into low detail, the FX cards could almost keep up with the rival Radeon 9000 series. Of course, when people started finely analysing the detail of games, they had to scale it back, else it was immediately obvious what was going on. It still happens to this day, but to a much lesser extent, which is why it's glossed over in reviews. Crysis is the most obvious example, there's still significant detail reduction in that. Other games, it's tricky to spot, but it's often there.
To the standard end user in pretty much any game it's never noticed unless you're looking for it, which is the whole point. I will happily admit, though I owned a geforce card long in the past, that I am an ATI fan, but not for fanboy's sake, because I simply can't accept nvidia's shoddy business practices. Perpetual rebrands of identical hardware to boost sales by people thinking it's a new product, coding in performance advantages through detail loss in games, abusive launch dates and on top of it all, just read some of the stuff their CEO says. I think he's an arrogant so and so myself.
To get me to buy a geforce, they'd have to be about as far ahead as they were when it was 8800GTX vs HD2900...
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
15. June 2009 @ 11:25 |
Link to this message
|
Tut tut, ATI do these things too, I guess you just don't hear about it... You can't single one of the two out :P
And actually I'd say the difference is practically nothing - I've seen a comparison article between nVidia and ATI on Crysis and I actually can't see a difference :O
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
15. June 2009 @ 11:33 |
Link to this message
|
Then I'd like to see evidence of it. The only thing that separates ATI from nvidia in running games differently for extra performance is that HD4 series cards can render DirectX10.1 which gives them a performance advantage in games that support it. The only time this has had a negative impact on image quality is in Assassins Creed which was due to a bug they patched in later drivers.
The Crysis thing had a patch, sure you weren't looking at the 'After' shot? It was a big difference, easily noticeable when you were looking for it, but of course if you were used to the nvidia picture there's nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just you don't notice how much more to the picture there should be.
|
Member
|
15. June 2009 @ 11:39 |
Link to this message
|
|
hmm this all sounds a tad conspiracy theory to me.
Yay getting a summer job quad and another 4850 here I come!
Quick question though can I use a XXX edition (company OCed) with my normal not OCed card (settings won't stick in 7)? Normally I wouldn't bother with gimmicky company OCed cards but at the moment there cheaper.
I could put something funny here but I cant be arsed. Now GO AWAY!
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
15. June 2009 @ 11:42 |
Link to this message
|
|
Call it what you like, it's an underhand business with superior marketing skills (hence the higher sales) compared to the more honest business with frankly poor marketing skills.
Since I take the time to research what hardware to buy, I consider taking the HD4800 route the educated choice rather than the popular choice.
Yes, you can combine a stock and XXX card together. Just bear in mind the gains of having the XXX over two stocks are minimal unless you overclock the stock card.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
Member
|
15. June 2009 @ 11:45 |
Link to this message
|
To ME Nvidia appears to be the choice of former Xbox fanboys who stumbled into PC gaming not knowing much and being to lazy to find stuff out.
I could put something funny here but I cant be arsed. Now GO AWAY!
|
|
