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Best factory built computers
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Buik
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25. June 2004 @ 19:35 |
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TO: JSRife
You just said:
"Praetor you wanna get all over me for making comments in the wrong post , well the Post says Factory built computers, meaning commerical..Didn't say Home Built computers vs Factory built....Come on now."
It is presumed that eveyone here is a PC (Personal Computer) user. On your second post you started delving into the commercial hardware your major corporation has. That deviated from what everyone was thinking. You continued on that track in later posts. Afterdawn members are not here to provide technical support and education for those purposes. Many could do so and would probably out-perform some of verizon's IT staff.
Don't regal us with the hardware your employer has. Get closer to home.
TC
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Praetor
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25. June 2004 @ 19:36 |
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People say isn't really cutting it. I want to Learn more about other Computer companys as well, that is why I made this post. People say " My sister has an HP and it sucks" I mean reasons why it sucks would be nice....I mean could it be it's 8 years old and she has 64mb of memory, comparing that to a New Dell, yeah I bet it would suck
You seem to be interested in a meaningful comparison by noting that comparing an acient HP to a new Dell would be a bad comparison -- but then you bring up HP Servers? Are you trying to suggest that HP Servers have more processing capacity than other OEM desktops? If that was your intent then sure, you win -- servers are supposed to have a processing advantage -- but thats a meaningless comparison. If you're going to compare computers, make sure it's a meaninful comparison :)
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I don't see how any computer could be actually if it's newer with a a user with some basic computer skills, some computers are better than others, someone has to always be a little better, but all computers are all bassically the same,
This is remiscient of your comment about video cards where "every video card should be able to play any game" -- yes all computers are basically the same -- but there are major things that differentiate them from each other (otherwise this thread is pointless).
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People get programmed to easy, they see a computer at Wal-mart and it is automatic shit...
Perhaps you dont realize the reasoning as to behind that gut instinct (for whatever reason). For me, the reason my instinctive reaction to a Walmart (or similar) computer is "shit" because they have a very poor performance-cost ratio -- yes they are "computers" and they "compute" but that doesnt mean they are "good" (again, remiscient of the video cards -- yes all video cards display video but not all will play FarCry).
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believe it or not they actually get good quality products at a good price, it's called buying in bulk
No doubt -- they get their stuff from HP, Compaq, Dell, Gateway, whatever and those companies have a standard level of quality control -- the fact that those computers have a certain quality to them is not because of any efforts on Walmart part but rather to those QC checks by the OEMs.
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The most expensive Computer Wally world sales is probably a little over $1000, don't expect a $2000 quality PC for $1000, expect a $1000 PC.
Well obviously -- like I said before: when making comparisons, make them meaningful comparisons.
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Praetor you wanna get all over me for making comments in the wrong post , well the Post says Factory built computers, meaning commerical..Didn't say Home Built computers vs Factory built....Come on now.
Dont get stupid with me. I build computers at home for commercial profit. The parts are factory built. But as I said before, if you're going to ask a question (as the thread title suggested) -- ask one. Dont turn it into a propaganda thread (whether pro or nay for HP) -- if you want to make a propaganda thread, go ahead and make one -- but dont hide it behind the premise of a question.... so come on nothing.
At least the rest of us given some semblance of reasoning for our comments regardless -- you simply state something without anything to back it up and then make useless comparisons in an attempt to inferr that HP is the best computer OEM there is -- so, to avoid confusion: what's it going to be? Are you going to deal with home computers or commercial servers? Because you cant compare in between those categories (well you can but that would just be wrong). And while you're at it -- give some reasons as to why you think the way you do ... listing specs means nothing -- you and I both know that (well I know it, you should too).
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They merged with Compaq. Enough said.
LOL that would do it ... but we should be careful not to hurt jsrife's HP ego/pride
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Buik
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25. June 2004 @ 19:41 |
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JSRife
I think you have gotten Praetor's goat. GIVE IT BACK TO HIM NOW!!!
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25. June 2004 @ 19:53 |
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HP still sucks pants.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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25. June 2004 @ 19:56 |
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I agree with Nephilim :) ... And damn you've got alot of movies!!!
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. June 2004 @ 04:38 |
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HP never merged with compaq....HP flat out bought the Compaq name, the Original Compaq company is history... ever since they bought the name Compaq's quality has stepped up alot. As far as budget Computers go, yeah I would say they all suck, no matter what brand you buy....HP's company makes more than just budget computer systems, if that's all they made is budget, I would have to say they would suck. HP make awesome servers, workstations, Printers, (Quality wise neck to neck with Dell as far as business machines go) HP business computers are pretty damn good too...Now HP's home computers, they are alright as long as you don't buy their blue light special for $499, on the other hand I don't think Dell's $499 Computer is any better, about the same deal, just Dell doesn't offer a few features the HP does on the budget system. Gotta lose a few options in order to get Dells name on the box (but of course) As far as the Best factory computers between HP and Dell...I would give it to Dell all day, Dell's top of the line desktop Dimension XPS will kick Hp's butt I cannot deny that one bit....It's not like HP couldn't make the same exact machine as Dell as far as the Top of the line home computer goes....I personally don't wanna spend $2500 for a Computer however, You can buy an HP with the same stats for around $1300, which the quality isn't going to be that of the XPS....But for more than a $1000 bucks cheaper the HP's quality is just fine Dandy....
Jason Rife
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Praetor
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26. June 2004 @ 09:58 |
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Ok now we are focusing a bit :) It seems you want to look at HP's home computer line and specifically at their midrange systems. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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As far as the Best factory computers between HP and Dell...I would give it to Dell all day
Uh ok.... thought you were gonna go with HP but it doesnt matter ..... in all honesty ... Dell isnt much better hehe (even though I'd prolly buy a dell if I had to buy a OEM system). :)
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It's not like HP couldn't make the same exact machine as Dell as far as the Top of the line home computer goes
Oh definitely not .... Dell has really gotten their act together since ... last year .... to be compared next to Alienware and Voodoo is no small task. HP's flagship system the m1050y series, is nowhere near the Dell XPS platform (i.e., DDR2-533 versus DDR-400) ... and while HP could make an equivalent system -- they chose not to -- now if you mean to say "could" as in "they are able to regardless" that's just getting nitpicky -- cuz I could too but that doesnt put me in the same ballpark as HP or Dell :)
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But for more than a $1000 bucks cheaper the HP's quality is just fine Dandy
That's the first objective thing you've said -- and I agree entirely! :) Considering the price and "peice of mind" that comes with buying an OEM system, HP systems do fill in the niche for entry-level consumers who are just getting their first computer or something :) However, while HP does fill this role very well (and possibly better than Dell) -- it certainly doesnt make them the "best overall" company for getting an OEM -- only because there isnt really a best OEM .. HP and Dell, as far as entry level systems go, are fairly neck and neck and it comes down to personal preference -- and as you've made abundantly clear, HP is the choice for you .... just realize not everyone shares your enthusiasm for HP.
But back to the original idea and concerning the $1500USD range, for those of us who deal with computers on a regular basis (i.e., take it apart down to the screws, clean and reassmble -- with organized cabling within 30 minutes) ... you need to realize it's hard for any of us to reccommend that any OEM system is "the best" ... and in the event that we are forced to, odds are you will hear XPS-3, A51, F-50 or something like that before you hear "Pavillion" or "Dimension" because we understand that these OEM companies know what we know (roughly) and they will try and use the crappiest parts they can without sacrificing QC to make the most money off these systems.
And can you blame us/them? No! Especially in the $1500 ballpark, the difference between a hand-built system and a OEM you get off the web is phenomenal. Considering I can probably build most of Dell/HP's $700-$1000 machines for $300-$400 .... that gives a lot of room to add a lot of extra goodies when you step up the garde to $1500. I think you have made a good point regarding "consumer's sense of security when buying an OEM" but when you evaluate the "best OEM", "a good feeling about a computer" isnt worth $1500.
But back on topic, the reason I personally said HP sucks (regardless of the last paragraph) is becayse their custom made bios's allow for damn near no personalization and alterations ... hell i can set the date/time/password/boot-sequence ... that's it! Dell's BIOSs arent much better in general (but their top end systems are fairly free).
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. June 2004 @ 15:27 |
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I have had this question for a long time. I know it's a little off the subject in general, I just wana ask a few things Praetor, while we are on the Home Computer building subject. Ok first of all, Lets say you build your own computer, Ok now it's done...If you ever have to reformat the machine, how would you go about that with a home built machine? I know factory built computers come with a reformat disc, and my HP and alot of other companies now have the reformat data right on the Hard/drive...If I ever need to reformat my machine, I simply turn off the computer and re-start it pushing F-10 several times and it takes me into the reformat screen and bam it's already getting started, very easy process. Like I was saying just wondering how you would re-format a Home built machine? I know their has to be a way, just curious how to do so. Another question...On Average how long does it take to build a complete machine? If you have everything you need, and start right on it without stopping and know what you are doing how long would it take the average person to complete it all?
Jason Rife
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26. June 2004 @ 16:12 |
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If you ever have to reformat the machine, how would you go about that with a home built machine?
Norton Ghost.
Once you do your initial install and get everything the way you like it you use Ghost to write an image of your HD to disc which you can then use to return your PC to a pristine state anytime you wish. It's very easy to do and you can make images anytime you want unlike a factory restore disc.
There isn't any worthwhile feature of a factory built PC that you can't duplicate with a homebuilt.
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On Average how long does it take to build a complete machine? If you have everything you need, and start right on it without stopping and know what you are doing how long would it take the average person to complete it all?
One day, including OS/software install, lunch and several cigarette breaks :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2004 @ 16:15
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Kamran
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26. June 2004 @ 16:20 |
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well when i built my first ever computer and i was only 15 and am 16 now it took me 1 hour! then another hour to get all my software on. mind you i did have the guidance of a it tech but he was just checking what i was doing was ok and not to electricute myself
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2004 @ 16:21
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Praetor
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26. June 2004 @ 16:28 |
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If you ever have to reformat the machine, how would you go about that with a home built machine?
Well now I just reghost to a previously perfected/tweaked state but to actually answer your question in a useful manner: I pop the WXP cd in the drive, boot up off the CD and reinstall, during the reinstal I have the option of a reformat
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I know factory built computers come with a reformat disc, and my HP and alot of other companies now have the reformat data right on the Hard/drive...If I ever need to reformat my machine, I simply turn off the computer and re-start it pushing F-10 several times and it takes me into the reformat screen and bam it's already getting started, very easy process
Wow I didnt know they actually went that far with their "customizations" .... I dunno how I feel about that ... I like to have control over my reformats :)
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Like I was saying just wondering how you would re-format a Home built machine? I know their has to be a way, just curious how to do so.
Use the WXP/W2K cd :)
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Another question...On Average how long does it take to build a complete machine? If you have everything you need, and start right on it without stopping and know what you are doing how long would it take the average person to complete it all?
Getting the mobo properly mounted in the case: 10 minutes (lol i hate this part)
Everything else hardware like: 15 minutes
Folding the IDE and tieing down the power cables so I have airflow: 10 minutes
So about 35-40 minutes for assembly.
Installing software is another matter and depending on how much stuff u install and how much of the gunk in WXP/W2K/W2K3 you remove and how much you tweak and configure your software/system, up to a week perfecting the configuration.... but once you have the config... its a simple 5 minute ghost.
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Kamran
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26. June 2004 @ 16:34 |
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hey when you mean reformat do u mean just delete everything inc windows? well all i do is put in xp cd and then just delete everything it literally takes les then a minute. but to reinstall windows well thats another matter
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forkndave
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26. June 2004 @ 16:39 |
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My first PC was a Packard Bell 486SuX 25 with 2 MB of memory. It pretty much did suck. I have built every one I've had since. A Nephew of mine had an HP that quit working. I decided that he should just get a new one, since this one was beyond my capabilities. You don't just replace a motherboard in one of those. I don't know where you'ld get one and no other brand would fit. I was going to try and remove any good parts, but after spending about a half hour trying to get the hard drive out, I told him to throw it away. Incidentally, I read somplace that a lot of computer manufacturers get their motherboards from ECS. That's the brand that Fry's Electronics usually includes with their MB/CPU combos. Usually they'll sell the combo for about the price of the CPU or sometimes less. Obviously they don't give much for the boards.
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Praetor
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26. June 2004 @ 17:56 |
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hey when you mean reformat do u mean just delete everything inc windows? well all I do is put in xp cd and then just delete everything it literally takes les then a minute. but to reinstall windows well thats another matter
A format would suggest a reinstallation of windows (or whatever operating system). Naturally the quick format option available under WXP and W2K3 would allow for a nice 10 second format but the W2K router doesnt have such an option and so it would take much longer. I would think that it would be standard to interpret "reformat" to mean "reformat and reinstall windows" but that's just me ;)
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I read somplace that a lot of computer manufacturers get their motherboards from ECS.
Budget systems typically pick ECS although the new favorite seems to be ASROCK as of late for some reason :)
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Kamran
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27. June 2004 @ 00:03 |
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yeah my motherboard is asrock i think its cool
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Praetor
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27. June 2004 @ 00:07 |
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ASROCK is certainly much better than ECS... but lets not drift offtopic too much :)
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JSRife
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. July 2004 @ 07:34 |
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Preator got a question... I plan on buying a new Computer probably within the next 2-4 months.(My PC) This AMD 1800+ Processor, DDR 2100 memory, 40 Gig HD, with a boring CD-RW drive is getting dated quickly . My Computer wasn't really anything special even when I bought it nearly 2 years ago, being a budget Computer and all. An AMD 64 Processor will probably be a for sure thing seeing how they will come down in price some by the time I do decide to buy a PC. As of now this is what I am kinda shooting for AMD 64(cheapest one I can get) , 160HD or higer, 1 Gig 3200 DDR memory, DVD-Writer, 19inch Flat screen monitor(not LCD) just plain ol flat screen full size monitor and a modest video card. How much roughly do you think it would cost me to have someone build me this system? VS just buying a Factory built machine? And when I say the cheapest AMD 64, I am meaning all hardware being the best bang for my buck, I don't need the best Mother board, just something good enough to expand 3200 memory to 3 gigs possibly. You know what I am saying?
Jason Rife
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Praetor
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6. July 2004 @ 08:28 |
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Ronrice
Junior Member
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11. August 2004 @ 10:08 |
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dell computers are super and so are sonys they rock
2.66
512 mb
120 gb
dvd+rw
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11. August 2004 @ 10:23 |
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I'd say Dell's are pretty decent if you're cafeful about the upgrades you get. The Teac DVD burner they've been using doesn't work well at all.
Many of the upgrades are overpriced as well such as RAM and video cards. If you get the core system and buy the extras elsewhere you can get by cheaper :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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Praetor
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12. August 2004 @ 02:27 |
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Yeah i used to not-like Dell so much but recently they've been getting their act together -- you still have to watch yourself though and buy carefully but that's just common sense :)
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JSRife
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15. August 2004 @ 08:05 |
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I know HP's Compaq line have stepped up a whole lot recently with there Compaq X Gaming PCs GX5000T series. Also the SA4000T series and SA4000Z series are pretty darn nice expensive though. I think you pretty much get what you pay for. People argue what's better ATI or Nvidia, Or HP vs Dell and I will say Dell's XPS series was kicking the crap out of HP line and still is, but then again for twice the money it should be better. It's all what they wanna do with there products and marketing, either company can out-do the next if they really wanna do it. HP could come out with a computer to kick Dells butt, and Dell could come back and top them. I know if HP can make kick ass servers and business machines they can put together an ultimate home computer. I'm not saying Dell is better or HP, both companies are about the same as far as size and wealth go. I just think some companies don't make really high end stuff because they feel it wouldn't sell. It's like if Dell puts together a bad ass computer, People will flock over it with a stiffy, it's a Dell dude!!! But, if HP put together a machine lets say even topping the Dell, it won't sell as many as the Dell machine. It's all about marketing and hype. Any of these Companies HP, Dell, IBM, Gateway have the resorces to build a machine to make you go WOW.
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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15. August 2004 @ 08:25 |
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Here is a good example of what I am talking about
Dimension XPS
Pentium® 4 Processor 560 with HT Technology (3.60GHz, 800 FSB)
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x1GB)
128MB PCI Express? x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon? X800 SE
320GB RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA HDDs)
$2,989
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SA4000T series PC Compaq
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 560 with HT Tech (3.6 GHz)
2 GB DDR2-533 RAM / PC2 4200 (4 DIMM)
320 GB RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA HDDs) - Performance
256MB DDR ATI Radeon X600 Pro with TV-Out and DVI
$2,398.99
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And both these computers have the same speed DVD writer and both have Sound blaster audigy 2zs cards, everything else you might as well say is the same or comparable to each other. The difference is you pay $500 more for the DELL logo on the machine.
Jason Rife
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JSRife
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15. August 2004 @ 08:36 |
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Sorry for so many post on here. Just wanted to clear something up before I get attacked on here.. I know I said you get what you pay for, but I also said you pay $500 more for the Dell name comparing these 2 machines. Maybe the Dell is $500 bucks better than the Compaq, maybe it isn't.....I guess we could argue which computer has the better motherboard and so on. I was just talking about the bottom line...Both computers have the same processor, memory, hard-drive, both computers have the same stats is what i'm saying and do the same thing equally according to the stats, unless Pentium made a deal with Dell, we will make this processor better for you than we did for Compaq, lol..Ok joking. I will say this, the Dell has a much nicer case over the Compaq, that's about the only difference I can see at this point. Differences are X600 Pro and the other has an x800 SE, that's all i can really see. I always got the feeling Dell added on a few extra bucks to there PC's just for the simple fact it's a Dell.
Jason Rife
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Ronrice
Junior Member
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15. August 2004 @ 10:26 |
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Dell dude its all about the dell...dude
2.66
512 mb
120 gb
dvd+rw
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