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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 17:06 |
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Originally posted by MYSELF!!!:
Looks like I may have my work cut out for me in the morning. One of my Sata Optical drives keeps dropping out. And another time it thought it was simply a CD drive. Not sure if its the drive, Sata cable, or the port yet. Will determine in the morning. (GA-ma790X-ud4p)
Well...I dont know if it was simply coincidence, and restarting simply reacknowledged the drive, or if dropping the HT/NB frequency back to 1800Mhz had an effect. But the drive is being properly acknowledged now. One more hiccup like that one, or anything pertaining to sata, and i'll be phoning Gigabyte support. Unusually, its only one drive with a problem. I sure hope its simply a cable issue, but somehow I doubt it. Perhaps its either Port 0, or Port 5. But i'm really wondering about a southbridge issue at this point. Since I can no longer do Dual Disc Burning, without massive buffer underrun.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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8. September 2009 @ 17:29 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The BEST you can do? You used a $160 board when there are $120 ones available that do a perfectly good job... The G-Skill memory from the more expensive build is fine, but I'm not sure I like the cheapo Crucial, especially given Crucial's track record with PC8500, plus the general lack of speed for PC8500 remembering how Intels like memory speed.
Sam,
What does the first line say? It says "at the moment"! What part of that don't you understand? It's what was available at 5:35 this morning! In your haste to give me a hard time, you completely missed the budget one at the bottom, which was deliberately priced with a $100 motherboard because that's what shaff said they cost, and using that price came to $382.97 with the cheap 8500 memory, and that's before tax! I also said that I felt it was better to spend the additional $80.05 for the better MB and the higher speed memory. I don't like the Crucial memory either, but it was just used to find the cheapest possible components for an i5 build!
Furthermore, if the MB was $120 instead of $100, the cost would still come to $402.97, which unless they have changed the math is still over $400 before tax! Add the tax (7.50%), and it comes to $433.19!
I looked at a number of "Entry Level" motherboard reviews, and I wouldn't buy one! Not when I can get a much better featured motherboard and 4GB of PC3 1600 memory for only $80 more! As I said in my post, I think it would be worth the $80 price difference to get a much better computer! It's what I would do!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 17:45 |
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Well if I were going i5(which I'm probably not) the Gigabyte P55-UD6 looks amazing. Really though you look at that chart and while i5 is fast it's nowhere near worth getting new hardware. It's not a major leap in performance from Intel's Q9000 series. If I were building a new system I would definitely jump to i5 but as it stands there isn't a whole lot to gain unless you're starved for CPU speed.
I mean look at it. The OCd dual core E8600 puts up the nearly same average and minimums as the OCd i7-860 and nearly matches the OCd i5. And remember that those results are with a GTX280 so there is very little GPU bottlenecking at their test settings to skew the data. The CPUs are just that close in performance for Crysis. Either you need a faster card to show the difference or the difference just really isn't that big. I'd like to see that test run with a 4870X2 or GTX280s in SLI. Only then will the other CPUs fall behind and i5/i7 will take a decisive lead.
Truly a CPU meant only for multi-card setups methinks. If you're strictly a gamer i5 probably isn't worth a whole new platform. Only new builders and performance junkies like Sam need apply.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2009 @ 17:52
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 17:46 |
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man that msut be annoying, the tax. with us its there ready to see, but in the US its added on in the end and then might take you above the budget you worked too :(
isnt the work around that if you dont live in the state that the online retailor lives, you can get it tax free?
i have to give credit to the GB's lowest board, the P55M-UD2, as paired with the i750, many are hitting 4GHz, from 2.66GHz, which is nothing to scoff at.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2009 @ 17:54
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 17:47 |
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I hate it when I end up on the top of a new page. Constantly get overlooked :P
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 17:48 |
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AFAIK if not in the same state all purchases are tax free. The only added price is shipping.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 17:56 |
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yeah estuansis, thats my conclusion.
hell i know i only play cod4/5 at 1920 but im keeping my E5200 @ 3.6, and ill just get a 4850/4870/4890 second hand for some CF action for modern warfare 2. i dont think my CPU is holding me back. Im also going to get the Corsair H50 watercooling kit, to see if i can push this to 4GHz.
i think SSDs will make more of a difference for the same price.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2009 @ 17:59
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 17:57 |
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Nope sorry Russ, not buying that, because the Biostar was there yesterday.
Agreed on the entry level boards, but reading reviews, even the £80 microATX from gigabyte can overclock the i5 750 (2.66) to 4Ghz plus. i5 is nowhere near as bad as i7 but still has the relative comfort of not having any truly budget naff boards available. Cheap RAM however, is available, and I wouldn't recommend it. $402.97 for the combination doesn't sound too bad for a CPU, Motherboard and RAM to me!
Jeff: As it happens I've made a bit of a u-turn for my upgrades, and I probably will be going i5 instead of i7 - simple fact is, I can't justify the cost of the i7 and seeing just how amazing the i5 750 is, it's actually better for games on average than the i7 920 (because it's a mainstream chip not a server-grade offering), it's much cheaper, as are P55 boards, and it uses less power, MUCH less power. Finances won't be great this next year, and cutting the cost by a substantial amount for even a possible gain in performance is good in my book - again considering finances, I'm going to try not to use Quad crossfire next time round, thus the bandwidth of the PCIe bus isn't so much an issue.
Reading the benches for the i7 860 and 870, they all seem a bit of a waste, nothing new, just i7s on a new socket, they keep HT, they keep all their other features, they don't overclock as well as the i5, so they're out! The i5 750 is the CPU for me now.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 18:31 |
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Originally posted by shaffaaf:
man that msut be annoying, the tax. with us its there ready to see, but in the US its added on in the end and then might take you above the budget you worked too :(
isnt the work around that if you dont live in the state that the online retailor lives, you can get it tax free?
i have to give credit to the GB's lowest board, the P55M-UD2, as paired with the i750, many are hitting 4GHz, from 2.66GHz, which is nothing to scoff at.
Shaff,
Each State has it's own sales tax and structure for it. Even then it varies all over the state, by the different Counties! Some cities have a city tax as well. They can say what they like, but I feel that it's done that way to give people jobs. useless, Non-Productive jobs! Here, they are again raising the tax on Alcohol and Tobacco. Nothing more than Legalized Theft! In Illinois, Gina pays $8.50 for a pack of smokes. Here the same pack costs $6.95, and that's in the local store and $5.65 in the Smoke shops!
For the $110 price, that's a pretty nice MB from GigaByte. I also notice that unlike the 3 power phases of all the other entry level boards I've seen reviews on so far, the GigaByte has 4 power phases. The only real shortcoming I see in one, is the second PCI-E slot is only 4x. Then again, I doubt anyone would buy one just for the extra PCI-E slot. Most folks buying one would only use one Video card to begin with! I could live with one, as it has everything I need!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 18:34 |
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To be honest, a Micro ATX board with two 16x slots for that money is rare on any socket, let alone Core i5, so hats off to Gigabyte for that. Right now I'm eyeing up the P55-UD3 for my build later on, as it has a good balance of low cost, decent slot layout and I/O and so on.
As for the tax, it's entirely understandable why US prices are pre-tax, and does make things a little confusing when comparing costs. UK sites here should really state post-VAT costs and usually they do. For the record, our VAT will be rising here in January from its temporarly low of 15% back to at least 17.5%.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 18:44 |
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man i hate the tax here for importing tobacco! i tried to import 1.5KGs of tobacco, (not used for cigarets or illegal sustances, known as shisha, which is fruit falvoured mollasses mixed with tobacco) and i got charged £200 by customs to take it, when i bought it for less than $80.... (!_!)
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 18:46 |
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These are sure mighty tempting! They're making me drool LOL!
MEGA ram
I think I would buy 2 kits of the of the double pack though. Why spend 5 dollars more, just to buy a quadruple pack? They ARE the same modules, are they not?
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 18:47 |
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I don't drive and get charged a fortune for tax/fuel/insurance/maintenance. I don't drink and get charged a fortune for tax on alcohol. I don't smoke and get charged a fortune for tax on whatever I may smoke.
You wonder how I can afford the hardware I have at 21 - this is how...
Omega: Buying a 4-pack guarantees batch similarity, which can help when clocking all 4 sticks at once. Can't use DDR2 with an i5 though! :P
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2009 @ 18:48
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 18:49 |
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Quote:
Nope sorry Russ, not buying that, because the Biostar was there yesterday.
Sam,
Maybe in Europe, but here in the States there were only 3 motherboards, and the $159 MSI was the cheapest, and those were not on line until after 5AM. I saw the email notification, and opened it right away! The other two were a $189 Asus and a $249 GigaByte, that has 24 power phase regulation! They are still putting in the new stuff at newegg, as we speak! I was only now able to view the GigaByte that Shaff mentioned!
Besides, why should that matter? I used $100 for one of the MB/Memory/CPU sets to begin with, so it's a moot point!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 18:51 |
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So you pay 5 dollars more for the guarantee. Ehh...I dont see needing more than 8Gb at this point anyway.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 18:53 |
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Russ, I was looking at Newegg. Apologies if I ended up lookng after you, but this was either late night or very early morning today, which in California certainly counts as yesterday. There were as many boards there at the time as in shaff's screenshot. I have to say though, you're let off if you didn't find them, there was a glitch with the site that made it very difficult to find any i5 products for a while, presumably it's not still like it.
Anyway, to cut it short, i5 is an excellent value platform for its performance, and it's going to be the staple of my recommendations for mid-high end systems now. Barestock systems can still get my points for AMDs, but only for sums of less than $400 pre-tax.
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8. September 2009 @ 19:17 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Russ, I was looking at Newegg. Apologies if I ended up lookng after you, but this was either late night or very early morning today, which in California certainly counts as yesterday. There were as many boards there at the time as in shaff's screenshot. I have to say though, you're let off if you didn't find them, there was a glitch with the site that made it very difficult to find any i5 products for a while, presumably it's not still like it.
Anyway, to cut it short, i5 is an excellent value platform for its performance, and it's going to be the staple of my recommendations for mid-high end systems now. Barestock systems can still get my points for AMDs, but only for sums of less than $400 pre-tax.
Sam,
I had looked earlier with the idea of California time too, and there was nothing. That's why when the email notification from newegg popped up I went and opened it right away. It was a little past 5AM pacific time! This is what I got.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2511/i5mb.jpg
I tried looking for more at newegg, but nothing was there!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 19:25 |
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As I say, when I went back there was nothing there, but if you followed the URLs directly, they worked - presumably a site glitch. I think it's safe to say you're excused - apologies about that!
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 19:33 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
As I say, when I went back there was nothing there, but if you followed the URLs directly, they worked - presumably a site glitch. I think it's safe to say you're excused - apologies about that!
Sam,
NP and Thanks.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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bigwill68
Suspended permanently
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8. September 2009 @ 19:54 |
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Done out of Here!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2009 @ 20:44
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 20:46 |
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some i5 test for people who cant be arsed to look :P
(PS i choose ones that we all would actually care about :D)
Courtesy of Anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634
Photoshop
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Encoding
DivX 8.5.3 with Xmpeg 5.0.3
Our DivX test is the same DivX / XMpeg 5.03 test we've run for the past few years now, the 1080p source file is encoded using the unconstrained DivX profile, quality/performance is set balanced at 5 and enhanced multithreading is enabled:
And we're done. DivX, historically a stronghold for AMD's Phenom II processors (at least compared to their price-competitive Penryn counterparts) is faster on the Core i5 750 than on the Phenom II X4 965 BE. What's wrong with that?
The i5 750 costs $199, the 965 BE costs $245. Intel is selling you more transistors for less than AMD is for once.
x264 HD Video Encoding Performance
Graysky's x264 HD test uses the publicly available x264 codec (open source alternative to H.264) to encode a 4Mbps 720p MPEG-2 source. The focus here is on quality rather than speed, thus the benchmark uses a 2-pass encode and reports the average frame rate in each pass.
[img]
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/intel...19895.png[/img]
In the first pass AMD is quite competitive, outpacing the i5 750, but when we get to the actual encode:
It's close, but the cheaper i5 750 is faster than the Phenom II X4 965 BE once again; Hyper Threading keeps the i7 920 ahead.
Windows Media Encoder 9 x64 Advanced Profile
In order to be codec agnostic we've got a Windows Media Encoder benchmark looking at the same sort of thing we've been doing in the DivX and x264 tests, but using WME instead.
AMD is about 6% faster than the i5 750 here, it looks like the Phenom II does have some hope left for it. Let's see how the rest unfolds...
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WinRAR - Archive Creation
Our WinRAR test simply takes 300MB of files and compresses them into a single RAR archive using the application's default settings. We're not doing anything exotic here, just looking at the impact of CPU performance on creating an archive:
Large file compression is very well threaded and thus we see a real difference in performance between the HT enabled i7 920 and the i5 750 without Hyper Threading. The i7 870 however is within 5% of the i7 975, at 56% of the cost.
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Fallout 3 Game Performance
Bethesda?s latest game uses an updated version of the Gamebryo engine (Oblivion). This benchmark takes place immediately outside Vault 101. The character walks away from the vault through the Springvale ruins. The benchmark is measured manually using FRAPS.
The numbers are all very close, but the Core i7 870 edges out the 975 for the lead here. The i5 750 manages to outperform the i7 920 thanks to its more aggressive turbo modes. The Phenom II X4 965 BE is faster than its closest competitor, but it needs a price adjustment in a major way.
Left 4 Dead
Once more we have Lynnfield near the top, the only thing that's faster is the i7 975. In these situations however the difference between first and fourth place is neglible.
FarCry 2 Multithreaded Game Performance
FarCry 2 ships with the most impressive benchmark tool we?ve ever seen in a PC game. Part of this is due to the fact that Ubisoft actually tapped a number of hardware sites (AnandTech included) from around the world to aid in the planning for the benchmark.
For our purposes we ran the CPU benchmark included in the latest patch:
Even when four cores are stressed, the i5 750 can pull ahead of the i7 920.
Crysis Warhead
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Power Consumption
If you'll remember back to last year's Nehalem coverage I made a point to mention that the Nehalem architecture, thanks to its PCU and power gate transistors, was the most power efficient of the high end options. The lower the TDP, the more important power efficiency is and thus it's no surprise to see Lynnfield truly impress when it comes to power consumption:
At idle the Core i5 and Core i7 870 use less power than any other processor we've ever tested. Note that these idle power figures include an idling GeForce GTX 280. With a lower power graphics card, you could easily get to idle power consumption around 60W. Once we start seeing on-package GPUs, total system power consumption should drop even further.
Under load the Core i5 and Core i7 870 continue to impress. They both draw less power than a Q6600 or a Q9650, all the while outperforming the two. Power consumption is also noticeably lower than Bloomfield.
These things are fast and smart with power. Just wait until Nehalem goes below 65W...
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Overclocking
As for Overclocking, with the basic intel board they got the 750 to just under 4GHz and the 860 to 4.2 (on air)
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Overclocking Lynnfield at Stock Voltage: We're PCIe Limited
Remember the on-die PCIe controller? Yep. It's to blame.
Lynnfield is Intel's first attempt at an on-die PCIe controller and it actually works surprisingly well. There are no performance or compatibility issues.
The on-die PCIe controller needs more voltage as you overclock Lynnfield, limiting Lynnfield's stock vt overclocking potential.
Unfortunately the PCIe controller on Lynnfield is tied to the BCLK. Increase the BCLK to overclock your CPU and you're also increasing the PCIe controller frequency. This doesn't play well with most PCIe cards, so the first rule of thumb is to try and stay at 133MHz multiples when increasing your BCLK.
The second issue is the bigger one. As you increase the BCLK you increase the frequency of the transistors that communicate to the GPU(s) on the PCIe bus. Those transistors have to send data very far (relatively speaking) and very quickly. When you overclock, you're asking even more of them.
We know that Bloomfield can easily hit higher frequencies without increasing the core voltage, so there's no reason to assume that Lynnfield's core cannot (in fact, we know it can). The issue is the PCIe controller; at higher frequencies those "outside facing" transistors need more juice to operate. Unfortunately on Lynnfield rev 1 there doesn't appear to be a way to selectively give the PCIe transistors more voltage, instead you have to up the voltage to the entire processor.
Intel knows the solution to Lynnfield's voltage requirement for overclocking, unfortunately it's not something that can be applied retroactively. Intel could decouple the PCIe controller from BCLK by introducing more PLLs into the chip or, alternatively, tweak the transistors used for the PCIe interface. Either way we can expect this to change in some later rev of the processor. Whether that means we'll see it in the 45nm generation or we'll have to wait until 32nm remains to be seen.
The good news is that Lynnfield can still overclock well. The bad news is that unlike Bloomfield (and Phenom II) you can't just leave the Vcore untouched to get serious increases in frequency.
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Final Words
I'll start this conclusion with what AMD must do in response to Lynnfield. The Core i5 750 is a great processor at $196, in fact, it's the best quad-core CPU you can buy at that price today. In nearly every case it's faster than AMD's Phenom II X4 965 BE, despite the AMD processor costing almost another $50. Granted you can probably save some money on an integrated 785G motherboard, but if you're comparing ~$120 motherboards the AMD CPU is simply overpriced.
Lynnfield (top) vs. Phenom II (bottom)
Luckily, the solution isn't that difficult. AMD needs to lower prices. The problem is that AMD has too many products below $200 already. The Phenom II X3 and X4 series both exist below $200 and rumor has it that AMD is also going to introduce a quad-core Athlon II somewhere down there. Lynnfield's arrival causes a lot of price compression on AMD's side. The most AMD should sell the 965 BE for is $199, but if it is to remain competitive the chip needs to be priced much lower. That doesn't leave much room for other AMD CPUs. On the bright side, this could force AMD to simplify its product lines again (similar to what it has quietly been doing already).
The next thing that the Core i5 750 does is it finally ends the life of LGA-775. Just as was the case with AMD, the Core 2 Quad Q9650 is easily destroyed by the Core i5 750 and at a lower price. With significantly lower motherboard costs than the LGA-1366 chips, the Core i5 750 can actually compete in the high end LGA-775 space. It's only a matter of time before the sub-$200 LGA-775 parts are made obsolete as well.
Lynnfield power consumption is just excellent, these are the most power efficient quad-core CPUs we've ever tested. They use less power at idle than similarly clocked dual-core processors and under load they deliver better performance per watt than any of their closest competitors. Later this year we'll see 32nm dual-core Westmere start to ship for notebooks. I don't have performance data but I'd expect that early next year will be the perfect time to buy a new notebook.
Can you tell that I like the Core i5 750? Again, at $196 you can't find a better processor. Intel did its homework very well and managed to deliver something that kept AMD in check without completely upsetting the balancing of things. There's no technical reason that Intel couldn't have enabled Hyper Threading on the Core i5, it's purely a competitive move. A Core i5 750 with HT would not only defeat the purpose of most of the i7s, but it would also widen the performance gap with AMD. Intel doesn't need to maintain a huge performance advantage, just one that's good enough. While I'd love to have a 750 with HT, I'd still recommend one without it.
The Core i7 870 gets close enough to the Core i7 975 that I'm having a hard time justifying the LGA-1366 platform at all. As I see it, LGA-1366 has a few advantages:
1) High-end multi-GPU Performance
2) Stock Voltage Overclocking
3) Future support for 6-core Gulftown CPUs
If that list doesn't make you flinch, then Lynnfield is perfect. You'll save a bunch on a motherboard and the CPUs start at $196 instead of $284. We didn't have enough time with our Core i7 860 to include performance results here but my instincts tell me that at $284 that'll be the Lynnfield sweetspot. You get excellent turbo modes and Hyper Threading, without breaking $300.
Speaking of turbo, I'd say that Intel is definitely on to something here. The performance impact was small with Bloomfield, but turbo on Lynnfield is huge. My tests showed up to a 17% increase in performance depending on the workload, with most CPU-influenced scenarios seeing at least 9 or 10%. The turbo mode transitions happen fast enough to accelerate even simple actions like opening a new window. OS and application responsiveness is significantly improved as a result and it's something that you can actually feel when using a Lynnfield machine. It all works so seamlessly, you just always get the best performance you need. It's like Intel crammed the best single, dual and quad-core processors all into one package.
Perhaps that's what kept me from falling in love with Bloomfield right away. It was fast but in the same way that its predecessors were fast. If you didn't have a well threaded application, Bloomfield wasn't any better than a similarly clocked Penryn. Lynnfield's turbo modes change the game. Say goodbye to tradeoffs, the Core i5 and Core i7 are now fast regardless of thread count. It speed that is useful, it speed that you can feel, it's what truly makes Lynnfield the best desktop microprocessor of 2009. It's not just faster, it's smarter, it's better. It's why today's title borrows from Daft Punk and not Star Wars; it's not more of the same, it's something futuristic and new.
Lynnfield shows us the beginning of how all microprocessors are going to be made in the future. Even AMD is embracing turbo, we'll see it with Fusion in 2011. Extend turbo to its logical conclusion and you end up with something very exciting. Imagine a processor made up of many different cores, large and small, CPU and GPU. Each one turning on/off depending on the type of workload, and each running as fast as possible without dissipating more heat than your system can handle.
My only two complaints with Lynnfield are that the chips do require additional voltage (above stock) to overclock and of course the lack of Hyper Threading on the Core i5. It doesn't ruin the processor, but it gives us something to wish for.
Our work is never over.
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for gaming there is no need IMO to upgrade from a high clocked c2d/c2q, hell even for other things, itd be better getting a c2Q for the price, from a dual instead of upgrading everything (ie RAM mobo). but for new builds, esp from people with P4/athalon x2s its a very good prospect. otherwise sam, you dont need it, save money and add more SSD/s DX11 GPUs to yuor set up :P
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2009 @ 21:21
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. September 2009 @ 20:53 |
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Will: P55-UD3 may not be in US yet, it's certainly available in the UK, and very cheap at that, about £10-£15 less than the UD3R I think.
Shaff: If you're going to quote an article almost verbatim you should really credit it - I know from the graphs styling where that came from, but even so, they could do you for copyright on that.
As for an unnecessary upgrade, it's all relative, I would get more from an i5 I think than I would from say, grabbing a QX9650 or 9770 off ebay. This said, the CPU bottleneck for 2 GPUs may be different to that for 4, so I will want to see how DX11 pans out first - even if I bought an i5 as soon as I could afford one, the first tests for DX11 should be out by then anyway.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 21:13 |
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Originally posted by bigwill68:
I got the links to newegg...I get e-mail notification also just as Russ do on sales and new product inventory...
1156 sockets
i5 750
i7 860
i7 870
Motherboards
MSI P55-GD65
ASUS P7P55D
Gigabyte GA-P55-UD6
Biostar TPOWER i55
All 1156 socket boards on newegg
27 brand types
Quote:
Sam Wrote:
I'm eyeing up the P55-UD3 for my build later on
sam i did'nt see or found the model P55-UD3 on the Egg or the Gigabyte website Just the P55-UD3R unless there making a Limited
Edition..LOL
Newegg site
Newegg
Will,
I just got off the phone with Newegg, and the reason some things don't show even though a direct url will work, is that they are adding new stuff in batches. It isn't until they are done with a batch that they are linked to the menus. The urls are all live and in place, but until a whole batch is finished they can't be linked to the menus. I also asked about the time zone thing, and they said that it goes by the time zone, because their most western time zone covered from here is 5 hours earlier. When it turns midnight there it's 5AM here! Their license dictates that since they cannot separate or exclude areas within the 5 hour time difference, they are obliged to wait until 5AM Pacific time!
Just imagine the damage that could cause Intel! ROFL!! Just more legaleze BS, and don't forget to dot those I's and cross those T's. That's the sort of nonsense that happens when Lawyers make the rules!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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bigwill68
Suspended permanently
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8. September 2009 @ 21:22 |
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Sam I thought you aways prefer X style platforms motherboards?...i think i'm my eyes is on that i5 cpu as well knowning that my local micro center gonna have the lowest prices in town out beating the egg
in cost...
Done out of Here!
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2009 @ 21:25 |
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sorry, i have credited :)
but really, a 3.6GHz c2Q is nothing to laugh at. do you need the upgrade? what are you currently limited on?
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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