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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 06:14 |
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"Microsoft needs your permission to install this software", or "Microsoft needs your permission to open this program"! Anyone can install anything they want on any computer they can get their hands on. How on Earth is M$ going to know who you are, at the keyboard? You could be a hacker who's gained control of someone else's computer, and M$ would never know! So what good is the slowdown? It accomplishes nothing but giving people a false sense of security, because they think M$ is looking after their interests, and slows you down to boot!
Russ, the constant security pop-ups are called User Account Control(UAC) and can be disabled easily and permanently. I did it right away.
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I personally think Microsoft should have made Win 7 a free upgrade from Vista, to fix their mistake with a buggy, resource hog, Operating System. They would go a long way towards gaining my respect if they did!
I completely agree. Anyone that can show proof of purchase for Vista should get a free upgrade to the equivalent version of 7. Especially considering how 7 was basically released because Vista was such a major flop.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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15. December 2009 @ 06:50 |
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Estuansis - cheers, there's a couple of things in your post that i'll check out when i next boot Win7 up. I don't use indexing anyway but i'll check out the MSConfig/cores thing, didn't know about that.
Russ - Win7 really isn't that bad :)
As i'm Mr Simplistic i'll just say that if they didn't change stuff about sufficiently, everyone would be crying that it was simply a service pack, etc etc. While i hear you about how you can't find things, it just takes a couple minutes (ok for me Control Panel took about 5 or so minutes the first time). I have UAC on quite a low level so that it rarely ever pops up.
As i said in another post recently, i love Win7 and everything (and obviously XP too) but i hardly ever use Win7 now, it's largely irrelevant for my uses. To a sizeable extent so is XP, i only need XP for movie encoding stuff really. I spend all my time in Puppy linux (free) and 100% stable, everything works 'out of the box', sound, video, internet (wired and wifi), safely writes to any NTFS volumes, etc etc.
After being out of work so long i got/get sick of using an OS for many hours of each day and just mind-numbingly clicking on a mouse to make things happen on screen.
It has been refreshing to start writing my own scripts again under linux ie instead of just using a mouse to click on a pulldown box or a tickbox or some such brain-devoid activity when i can do things via the command line. Of course i still use a mouse a lot of the time but anything that can be done via command line gets done via command line, purely to encourage active thought; Windows OSes take too much thinking away :p
OSes have simply got as good as they need/want to get, the next big thing in OSes will be cloud computing, whether we want it or not (i don't!); the more things get dumbed down the more i want to use something that stimulates my brain cells, i love simplicity of use but Windows has reached a level where it can't simplify things any further without turning us into soul-less zombies. That's not aimed at you Russ, just my opinion re OSes :)
The last few days my Quad machine had been locking up completely, most annoying and completely out of the blue. And being Windows i have zero way of really finding out why, over and above the obvious hardware checks. At first i thought it was Firefox (or more specifically FF addons, i'm used to those crashing FF, but not system lockups). The only thing i'd installed recently was 'SUPER' video converter. AVG flags up problems when installing/using 'SUPER', don't know if that's false positives, but this PC only gets switched on when i have movies to do, i don't even surf on it much, i know it has no viruses or malware, though i still scan it often. I did try System Restore points, these aren't very helpful though, in this locking up instance the problem continued despite me going back a couple of Restore points.
Then i thought it was a failing NIC, this theory was furthered due to being unable to disable the NICs without device manager hanging. The lockups were random; i then gave up trying to use Windows' (lack of) decent tools/lack of proper error reporting to troubleshoot, so i popped in a linux live cd, and lo and behold, the PC remained stable for a good few hours. So i tried to repair Windows, could not get at the 'Repair' screen no matter hard i tried, in the end i reinstalled XP in 'Upgrade' mode ie all programs and settings remain. PC seemed stable for a couple hours so i think it's sorted. Needless to say i won't be using 'SUPER' any more.
Anyways, my point is that i was debating replacing XP with Win7 as i'd previously tested all my movie encoding programs on another Win7 machine, but i thought what's the point. I know full well that it's a great, stable OS, and it'd obviously run even better on the Quad than it does currently on the two C2D's (and they run very well indeed), but it just doesn't 'buy' me anything. XP isn't lacking in anything on that machine, i've hit the "OS has hit it's limit of new features/functionality" ceiling (well i hit that limit some years ago actually). I'd ditch XP and put Puppy linux on the Quad except for the fact i need access to all the Windows versions of my movie encoding programs, i can access/play any format movies on my Puppy machines, and if there were linux versions of all the encoding tools i use i would ditch MS OSes for good, not because they're crap (they're not) but because for me they don't offer anything (apart from some movie encoding tools) over and above linux. I can even access/update my Creative MP3 player under linux. When linux breaks (it does, or at least apps within it do, diehard linux fans out there will deny that the linux kernel itself can break, i could care less about the distinction), it's usually quite easy to fix as the system logs enough such that you can track the problem and then start fixing it. You just don't have the same kind of low level feedback/info/help from an MS OS.
So to sum up, XP and Win7 are great, they are simple enough for the masses and over the years they've dumbed down computing to such an extent that it's just no fun anymore. I'll still use Windows OSes, probably for many years to come, but i can't say that i'll be looking forward to Windows 8 and beyond, whatever they may contain. It's like mainstream news, i've had my fill of the dumbed down 'news', i do my own research on things, it's the only way to really learn anything.
/end epic reply, sorry :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. December 2009 @ 07:18
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 09:47 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by sammorris:
Get him to post a CPUZ maybe?
Sam,
I don't find CPUZ's CPU voltage accurate at all! Everest's numbers matches my PC Health numbers from the Setup, exactly!
Happy Holidays,
Russ
im just the oppisite Russ i find CPUZ dead on for me.. and everest is way off. i dont hardly ever use everest for anything anymore i dont think its that reliable. and he is useing everest now. i cant get him to use another program to check stuff. so for all my concerns im done with it. he doesnt want to listen to anything and tinks he knows it all, so ill just wait, in about a month if that long he will have burnt up the CPU(which he still has the intel cooler on it and the temps under IBT have hit 104c) yea he can boil water on that bad boy. you cant help someone who dont want help or thinks he dont need any..
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 11:04 |
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Quote:
Estuansis - cheers, there's a couple of things in your post that i'll check out when i next boot Win7 up. I don't use indexing anyway but i'll check out the MSConfig/cores thing, didn't know about that.
Yeah I'm a performance freak. I always try for the best blend of OS functionality and performance. I just can't stand it if something is slowing me down even in the slightest. The only reason I don't switch my desktops to some sort of Linux is because I play games. I might have a dual boot though fairly soon.
Indexing is enabled by default just FYI.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 11:51 |
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Originally posted by Jeff:
Mind you, Russ, that 7 was also designed with the intent of opening up computing to the uninitiated. They have dumbed some stuff down but I don't think they've alienated long time Windows users as bad as it may seem. With a bit of time and patience I feel even hardcore XP lovers will warm up to the new OS.
That's a very good point actually, I'm willing to say there are a lot more computer users in terms of generations now than there used to be. A lot of older relations who got by perfectly without a PC are starting to either ask if they should have one, or already do. To an XP user, "they moved everything!", To a new PC user who started out with Vista/Win7, it actually makes quite a lot of sense.
It's actually got to the extent that when I use my XP PC the interface annoys me.
I also agree with the next point, XP to Vista for me was rough. Apart from owning a board not compatible with the installer which wasted an entire day of my time (P5N-E SLI), the next attempt with the X38-DS4 was a lot more fruitful, and while I won't say I grew to like the random needless bugs every day or more often, I became accustomed to the interface and it does now make more sense. Being able to search for stuff is especially handy if it's something you never used before, XP or Vista.
Win7 is still far from perfect, there are plenty of needless features they removed, and the display properties is one of my biggest nags, followed by not being able to save the password for network drives and a few other things. Still, given you essentially have to 'hack' the control panel to get network drives working at all, I'm guessing that that's a feature they haven't really considered in the development process.
I don't turn off indexing, but the last couple of OS installs it's come turned off by default. Strange. No bad thing of course, I do want at least a few miliseconds between my HDD seeks when I'm not using the system.
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The one thing you don't seem to understand, is you shouldn't have to Google much of anything routine! I never had to Google to find anything in the control panel, and I never had problems as simple as trying to discover how to un-install a program, and I've been using Windows in one form or another for over 20 years. Windows was always intuitive for as long as I can remember. The worst thing they ever did was change a lot of the control panel icons from being familiar, to crap you can't recognize at all! Win 7 is better than Vista, but still not near as easy to use as XP-Pro. If games are not your thing, then you are just wasting your money.
Not really, the Programs and Features is not at all hard to find, the control panel can be displayed in two different ways, and the two names for that section share the same word in the title, Programs.
Also, moaning about office support is really moaning at office, not windows. Knowing the relationship Office and Windows have, I'm surprised you didn't see that one coming. As it happens, I will openly admit I use office but don't pay for it.
UAC? Turn it off. Makes that little annoyance go away. As far as I'm concerned UAC is a good idea if you've got a complete numbskull using the PC. You can turn it off, which is good enough for me!
PowerDVD, we're now into conspiracy theories. Cyberlink didn't program PowerDVD 7 with Vista in mind. If they didn't release a patch to fix that, you can moan at Cyberlink - oh wait, they'll tell you get the new version. MS can hardly do the legwork of every software developer ever to force them to modify revisions that aren't even the one-behind to support their OS. Everything you moan about for Windows 7, pretty much none of it is MS' fault. Who'd have thought I'd be sticking up for them?
Making Win7 free? I hope you're not serious. There are pretty few companies that would render such an expensive piece of software non-profit on that basis, Microsoft are hardly going to be one of them. Yes it would be good, but to expect it from most big businesses I think is ludicrous.
Creaky: One of my main complaints about Vista and Win7 is the network structure. It's pretty much as if when you install the OS you get a million 'network credits'. When they run out, ah tough luck, no internet until you reformat. It's infuriating but it can happen with no logical reason. It can happen when your PC is switched off, when your network is unplugged, you needn't install any software, that's it, it's just gone.
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. December 2009 @ 12:01 |
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not had any network for just die.
but i agree, russ fair enough if dont want to use it, but why hate on it then? we are all happy with it. and to most it makes sense.
and as sam has said, its not windows support that application developers are lazy as they were for drivers for vista. i remember when it was nvidia drivers causing 28% of vista crashes! lol.
guess i havent had a problem being with ati on vista then :P
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 12:03 |
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Well, to say I've not had issues with graphics drivers would be laughable, but to say I've not had any that were the fault of Vista/Win7 is probably pretty close to the truth.
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15. December 2009 @ 12:21 |
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well i guess using a single gpu means its not laughable for me :D
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 13:13 |
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To be fair, the majority of the issues are in fact just ATI-related in general, not crossfire issues. As far as driver bugs go, Crossfire isn't so bad of late, but as far as game support goes, it's slowly declining, the percentage of new games that will work in CF out of the box is decreasing rapidly, and the time taken to profile them is increasing. It's partly this reason why I'm intending to drop back to no more than 2 GPUs next generation. The other is of course expense. My two HD4870X2s cost me £530 between them. That will barely buy you one HD5970 at the moment.
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Member
2 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 14:14 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. December 2009 @ 14:17
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 14:57 |
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System looks good. If you've already got the RAM then go for it. If you haven't I'd recommend considering an i5 instead and selling the Abit. The Core 2 system isn't as good value for performance as the i5 is, but the i5 costs a little bit more overall.
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2 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 15:37 |
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i have alredy go the ram i am going to nip to scan in the morning because its just round the corner as much as i would like an I5 system i have things to consider this would be a one time op for me. Or i would still be on my dinki dual core 5000+ system. so i am going to go for it would you like me to do any test when i have got it up and running?
thanks for the reply sam,
cheers
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 15:44 |
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Yeah sounds fine to me, the Q9550 is still an excellent performer, I should know :P
No specific tests will be necessary unless you encounter any problems...
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 17:01 |
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Quote:
That's a very good point actually, I'm willing to say there are a lot more computer users in terms of generations now than there used to be. A lot of older relations who got by perfectly without a PC are starting to either ask if they should have one, or already do. To an XP user, "they moved everything!", To a new PC user who started out with Vista/Win7, it actually makes quite a lot of sense.
Yeah that's about it. My grandpa just made the upgrade to 7 as well and he's having a much easier time with it than XP. I personally find the re-arranging of the directory structure refreshing. Old gramps is a light gamer as well and he plays Medieval II Total War all day problem free on an 8800GTS 320MB. Had a much easier time of getting stuff set up with Win 7. He was especially pleased with the auto-loading chipset drivers. He can figure out video drivers well enough but he has a hard time with figuring out his hardware.
Quote:
i have alredy go the ram i am going to nip to scan in the morning because its just round the corner as much as i would like an I5 system i have things to consider this would be a one time op for me. Or i would still be on my dinki dual core 5000+ system. so i am going to go for it would you like me to do any test when i have got it up and running?
Yeah looks good overall. I'd say get a newer video card but the 8800GTX is actually still quite good, if a bit outdated. I have an 8800GTS 512MB(and HAD a 9800GTX) and it seems to get by just fine even with new games. The Q9550 will serve you well too. Personally have a Q6600 which blew my mind and the Q9 series is faster so you should be all set for quite a while.
As far as tests I would check out CPU-Z just to make sure you're running the correct clocks. Other than that, as long as it seems to perform within the right ballpark you shouldn't need to do any tests.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. December 2009 @ 17:02
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 17:14 |
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I believe my 8600Gt got a 5.2 or slightly higher score. I don't think thats too bad. Not sure what the 260Gtx is. I imagine its a great deal higher. I really don't hold much faith in the windows index score. To the laymen, I imagine it tells them what they need to know though. If there getting a 3 with graphics, and a 6 for processor, then that should tell them that their graphics processor is not very good, or only adequate. But if its getting a 3, I wouldn't call that adequate LOL! My 6200 got a 3. something, and couldn't handle aero. But that card had issues in that board anyway...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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15. December 2009 @ 23:18 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
I really don't hold much faith in the windows index score.
I don't hold any faith in it. Two 4870X2s score 6.3...
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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16. December 2009 @ 00:19 |
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I read somewhere that the RC version is bugged, and that 7200 build+, fixes the Graphics/Gaming scores. Does that apply to you?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. December 2009 @ 00:21 |
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Quite possibly, I'm still using the RC. I did for about 10 minutes have the full retail version but I had to reformat again, long story.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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16. December 2009 @ 00:32 |
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I'm waiting on my retail version til after christmas. I don't like spending money on myself before christmas LOL! Although I did just buy another WD1001FALS :D Quite possibly the last mechanical drive I'll buy. Definitely the next Drive will be SSD. I'd sure like to see how the FALS run under Raid. The new one will probably have had those preventative measures done though. But I have 2 others that I'm curious how windows 7 would run under. Just for $h!ts and giggles of course. I would never run a configuration like that 24/7 Too risky. Although I wouldn't mind Raiding 3 or more Intel SSD's! THAT would be a thing of beauty :D
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. December 2009 @ 00:37 |
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A friend of mine is RAIDing three WD15EADS drives in Software RAID5 under Windows 7. I'm keen to see how that turns out, if it works well, I'll be following suit. Assuming Software RAID5 works reliably, that's enough for me, I don't really care about the CPU overhead, relatively low transfer rates or not being able to resize an array. If it works and it safeguards my data, it's happening. So much cheaper than spending HD5970 sort of money on a RAID card, and no new motherboard required! (Unless I want to use a S-ATA port splitter that is, in which case I need an ICH9, the little EP31-DS3L only has an ICH7...)
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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16. December 2009 @ 02:13 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Quite possibly, I'm still using the RC. I did for about 10 minutes have the full retail version but I had to reformat again, long story.
I'm hoping you didn't pay for it lol.
Originally posted by sammorris:
Win7 is still far from perfect, there are plenty of needless features they removed, and the display properties is one of my biggest nags, followed by not being able to save the password for network drives and a few other things.
How do you have your networked drives setup, win7 saved the password for mine just fine.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. December 2009 @ 02:15 |
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Mapped network drives, that's about it really...
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16. December 2009 @ 05:34 |
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Quote:
(sammorris)Making Win7 free? I hope you're not serious. There are pretty few companies that would render such an expensive piece of software non-profit on that basis, Microsoft are hardly going to be one of them. Yes it would be good, but to expect it from most big businesses I think is ludicrous.
Sam,
I'm dead serious about it! I think they owe that much to the "Blue Screen of Death" Club. I never though I would live to see an OS with as many BOSDs as Windows ME, after experiencing so many of them while repairing computers with Windows ME on them, I was wrong! They should at least give Vista purchasers, some sort of trade in at a decent price. After all, people did not get what they expected, paid for, or were promised with Vista! They paid good money for Vista and now they are expected to pay all over again for Win 7. That's just not right! Had Vista worked the way it was supposed to, and XP not been the better and faster OS for so lomg, maybe there would have been no need for Win 7 at all. You can bet your boots that if Windows had any serious competition, it might be a different story, entirely.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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16. December 2009 @ 08:27 |
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if they did their stock would plummet. plus not ever vista user is mad at vista.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. December 2009 @ 12:28 |
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In terms of BSODs per month, I've had fewer with Win7/Vista than I did with XP, even considering the fact that my X38-DS4 BSOD'ed pretty much every hour with two cards installed.
Vista really performs similarly to Win7 in terms of stability. It has lots of bugs, but bluescreens, not that I've seen.
Yes, people didn't like Vista, but not liking something sadly isn't grounds to give people a free new operating system that would normally cost £100+. There certainly weren't sufficiently many problems with Vista for me to warrant giving me the new OS for free. It's not Microsoft being typical evil Microsoft, it's just sense. Then apply the 'Microsoft -> evil' mentality on top and you can definitely see why they don't do it.
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