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Maxell or Memorex
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spOrin
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3. September 2006 @ 22:57 |
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i know both media are very pourly made thats why they r dirt cheap everywere just woundering if i want to back up computer data and nothing else with em what shoudl i go with maxell or Memorex DVDR?
Burner: Sony DVD±RW+RDL DRU720A JY08
Favored Media: Verbatim DVD±R DVD+R DL AzO
Peronal Hated Media: Philips/Imation This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. September 2006 @ 22:58
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movies27
Senior Member
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4. September 2006 @ 01:28 |
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bigwop
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4. September 2006 @ 01:36 |
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Actually, I liked the Maxell 50 cake box for a long time. Fair price and easy to get for me (WALMART). But now their media ID has been CMC Mag, a junk company. As soon as my good stuff"Maxell" runs out, I'll be switching to Taiyo-Yuden, which are purchased online. Quality stuff according to many at this site.
I was so ugly when I was a kid, my parents used to take me everywhere just so they wouldn't have to kiss me goodbye.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. September 2006 @ 01:37
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spOrin
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4. September 2006 @ 02:10 |
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thx for the input so neather i take it THX
Burner: Sony DVD±RW+RDL DRU720A JY08
Favored Media: Verbatim DVD±R DVD+R DL AzO
Peronal Hated Media: Philips/Imation
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ricster
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4. September 2006 @ 03:10 |
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Just buy yourself some TY (assuming you like the look of them). In my opinion it's just not worth faffing about with anything else. It's becoming a no-brainer now. Actually it's been that for a while.
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4. September 2006 @ 03:53 |
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If you get Maxells that are made in Japan, instead of Taiwan, you'll have some very good media. It will say on the package, where it's made. Usually near the bar code.
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Senior Member
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6. September 2006 @ 10:06 |
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Hi there,
Quote:
Maxell or Memorex
I would buy both !
Maxell Made In Japan for burning my stuff on.
Use the Memorex for target shooting while the Maxell get's burned on the PC Hahahahahahaha !!!!
VSO Software Golden Membership Proud Owner / VSO Software Beta Tester
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daman1
Senior Member
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6. September 2006 @ 17:32 |
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^^^ Bawahahahaha......
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spOrin
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. September 2006 @ 17:36 |
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nvm i am just gunna fork over the money and get Verbatims no use trying to buy cheap media sinse they are all crap thx for the info
Burner: Sony DVD±RW+RDL DRU720A JY08
Favored Media: Verbatim DVD±R DVD+R DL AzO
Peronal Hated Media: Philips/Imation
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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7. September 2006 @ 12:30 |
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How do you know Maxell and Memorex are "pourly made"? Are you referring to the Unaxis or Steag lines? Impure targets in the vacuum deposition chambers (Baslers)? Or are you making assumptions based on uninformed advice from posters who have no idea how discs are made or tested? Ritek manufactures Maxell and many Memorex discs, and some people highly recommend Ritek discs. CMC, the "junk company," makes most of the Verbatims, another highly recommended brand. It's not as simple as some people make it appear.
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spOrin
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7. September 2006 @ 12:35 |
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went out and bought both last nite and burned a couple and my burner made 20 coasters of them so ya its on experiense all the ones in my sig i have used HP DLs suck cuzz they fail burn memorex was the same way Philips had horrible playback compaitibilty CMC MAG was my HP +DL maybe i should hav put that. ill change it real quick and yes i hav beed trying to figure out what media would be best and so far i gotta say that the 100 stack ot TY's i bought and my verb +R DL hav burnd nicely and now that i think about it i have had no probles with TDK what so ever so i guess i kinda was going off of others just going wit the crowd o well my sig is correct now
Burner: Sony DVD±RW+RDL DRU720A JY08
Favored Media: Verbatim DVD±R DVD+R DL AzO
Peronal Hated Media: Philips/Imation
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2006 @ 12:37
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Senior Member
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7. September 2006 @ 13:57 |
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Quote:
CMC, the "junk company," makes most of the Verbatims
Of all the Verbatims I've ever seen, and used, also by my stepfather, I've never seen one that was made by CMC Mag. Everyone was made by MCC (Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.), except their DL discs, and they were made in Singapore. I've read that Taiyo Yuden is making some Verbatim discs, but they're not sold here in the U.S.
Has anyone else seen any CMC Mag Verbatims?
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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7. September 2006 @ 15:06 |
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Never, ever seen Verbatim DVD Media made by CMC Mag. I have bought & used plenty of Verbs too. That's a new one on me. I must woner if there is a confusion between "CMC" & "MCC"?
Use The Best Media for The Best Burns! TYs, Verbs,(Made in Taiwan) Sony MIJs (YUDEN000 T02), Sony Made in Taiwan DVD+R 16x, Maxell MIJ, RITEK G05.
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Senior Member
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7. September 2006 @ 17:54 |
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That's the same thing I was thinking.......
Or maybe it's because Verbatim discs are made in Taiwan, and he is taking it for granted, that they're CMC Mags?
I've read and passed along the info that CMC Mags aren't consistant with the application of the dye they use. So, after awhile (sometimes a short while), the dye starts to breakdown, and the movies are unwatchable. That's why they may record ok, and even look good, the first time you watch them. But try to watch again in a few weeks or months, and they're problems.
Before I learned any better, I used some cheap Khypermedia and TDK discs. I had the troubles I just mentioned. I've ended up having to reburn all of them, which became a little expensive............
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ricster
Member
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7. September 2006 @ 22:45 |
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Whilst I would never use CMC-MAG again (from bitter experience), I have to say that the disks that I DID manage to burn successfully are still going strong after at least 2 years. So I'm not seeing the deterioration yet. It was the burn-failure that drove me crazy.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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8. September 2006 @ 04:19 |
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spOrin--if your drive cannot burn a certain disc, then the two are incompatible. The disc may or may not be good quality, but if it's incompatible there is no way of telling. You confused incompatibility with quality.
JVC, bunnyrip--"MCC" is the MID code. It does not indicate the factory that made the discs. MCC can contract any factory to manufacture discs for them, and they supply the stampers with the MCC code and the azo-cyanine dye for DVD production. (I believe they have resorted to phthalocyanine dye for CD-Rs.) The list of the world's factories follows. It appeared in another thread. As for dye breakdown, it is possible but not likely that cyanine dyes used on some discs may be a factor. (The well known brands specify azo-cyanine, by the way.) A greater likelihood is that the original recording formed imperfect pits whose edges changed due to under- or overburning. The only way to tell is to check I14 modulation or several other values after recording. This requires very expensive equipment. The response from the other thread appears below:
For all those who want to burn consistently on almost every drive, Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are the best choice. For those who want to condemn CMC or any other manufacturer/brand on the basis of logic or "facts," you must get the premises correct or your conclusions will be wrong.
For anyone interested in data, here is some production information:
DVD production in 2005 (all types)
CMC 408 million
Ritek 378 million
Taiyo Yuden 320
MBI 200
Optodisc 200
Prodisc 192
Princo 180
Daxon Tech 156
Hitachi Maxell 130
TDK 79
Anyan Feiying 55
Gigastorage 50
Production figures in 2006 will be in the same order and higher except that Jiling Qingda in China is expected to be #10 with 85 million.
Production by country: (9,146 million units total in 2005)
54% in Taiwan (22 factories)
10% in Japan (7 factories)
32% rest of Asia (30 in China; more than 17 in Hong Kong; 3 in Thailand; 6 in India; 3 in Korea; 4 in Singapore; 3 in Malaysia; 1 in Macau)
3% in Western Europe (5 active factories; 13 closed and not producing)
1% in rest of world (more than 6 in S. America; 2 in Middle East; 3 in Eastern Europe; 1 in USA) Not one of these factories is listed under Mitsubishi Kagaku Media, Verbatim, or Mitsubishi subsidiaries.
Source: http://www.uands.com/ This report may or may not be available to non-subscribers. For those who do want marketing information for the entire storage industry, there are two sources in addition to Understanding & Solutions--Santa Clara Consulting and Magnetic Media Information Services. The website for Santa Clara Consulting is being rebuilt, but DVD Tracker is their report detailing market shares and projections for optical discs and drives/recorders.
http://www.mmislueck.com/ is the link for MMIS, a knowledgeable source of information on magnetic as well as optical storage with lots of market data and production information.
For information about test equipment, testing standards, and how to determine QUALITY, check out:
http://www.audiodev.com/ Audio Development produces the test equipment used by virtually every manufacturer capable of making a good disc or a drive. It is the world standard. (Although NIST's Fred Byers has told me that even their equipment does vary a bit, and work in the OSTA group is beginning to determine how much variation is considered serious. The head of the Santa Clara Group is the president of OSTA.)
http://www.mscience.com/ A great site explaining quality parameters. Jerry Hartke's contention is that there are two major causes of disc problems often ignored--file corruption and recording at too great a speed (pit morphology problems.)
For information concerning optical discs:
http://www.memorex.com/downloads/whitepa...Media_Jun06.pdf This is downloadable pdf file. Forget that it's from Memorex--this file is must reading for anyone who wants to know about optical media instead of rumors. The best written, most accurate, most comprehensive information from MiniDiscs to Blu-ray (and no commercials).
http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/ An excellent primer on optical discs. This is shorter and less comprehensive than the Memorex reference file, but it is worth reading for anyone interested in learning accurate information.
http://eta-optik.com/fix/index-company.htm Some heavy reading from one of the major producers of manufacturing equipment. This may be too deep for non-engineers; but if you read through the Memorex reference file first, these papers will make sense.
To summarize my point all along: just because a disc does not work on a drive does not mean either one of them is defective. Other factors may be and usually are involved. If CMC makes Verbatim discs (it does) and if Verbatim discs are good (they are), CMC can make good discs. If CMC's discs do not work on a person's drive, one cannot claim there is anything defective about the disc until one identifies the cause of the problem from one of the following:
-compatibility issues with the drive
-file issues
-differences in dyes (not all CMC lines use MKK or azo-cyanine dye, but the Imation, TDK, Memorex discs do, and I believe that also applies to Philips and HP. Fuji discs use Fuji's Oxonol dye.)
-differences in groove geometry in the stampers
-differences in the vacuum chamber targets
-differences in the processes (from manufacturing equipment, mold and curing times, personnel(manufacturing and packaging), clean room conditions, and materials such as lacquers
Since there are people who experience few to no problems with CMC or CMC-derived discs, there is some evidence that the cause of the problems may lie in conditions other than the discs unless one can define what is out of specification or physically flawed on the disc. (The links to Audio Development, Media Sciences, and Steag Optik are good sources of information on what to look for even if you don't have test equipment. Their papers describe the symptoms.) If you have problems with CMC, Ritek, TDK, or other brands/manufacturers, switch to Verbatim and/or TY. Those who love TY and Verbatim ought to keep on recommending them to others--they will work for just about everyone (once TY works out some kinks in the new 16X DVD+R). But please don't accuse any disc of poor quality unless you can define what is wrong and eliminate compatibility as the cause. (I personally don't care about any particular company's product, but I do dislike the way certain brands are intentionally made to look bad by some drive manufacturers who play politics at consumers' expense.) People can read and learn in order to draw better, more knowledgeable conclusions; or they can howl with the horde. I hope these links will help the passionate AfterDawn readers move away from name calling.
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8. September 2006 @ 05:43 |
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Why should we have to believe the ?industry standard? way of testing and the super duper whiz-bang equipment used by labs and independents we?ve never heard of, not to mention the skewed analysis by the self-servers? I guess all of us who?ve experienced the same thing (good and bad) are so stupid; we need someone else to tell us that our bad burns aren?t really bad and our good ones aren?t really good because we don?t have the right test equipment.
So that means if we ?successfully? burn a DVD and it has no problems, we should trash it because it hasn?t been tested by a special group, and is actually bad; and the ones that give CRC errors, non-readability problems, etc. are actually good burns for the same reason.
I don?t know how I?ve managed all these years burning CDs and DVDs, being so dumb; especially not being familiar with all the production figures and other hoorah.
I'm just going to continue in my ignorant bliss and use what works for me.
Verbatim, TY, Sony-MIJ, Fuji-MIJ.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2006 @ 05:54
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2006 @ 05:43 |
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Quote:
Never, ever seen Verbatim DVD Media made by CMC Mag. I have bought & used plenty of Verbs too. That's a new one on me. I must woner if there is a confusion between "CMC" & "MCC"?
Verbatim Used to outsource to CMC in the 'early days',
But the have since stopped beacuse of quality issues.
I use Verbatim and stand by them.
Even If it is only data, You want the disk to
be operable down the long road.
JoeRyan is a Memorex Fanboy,(One of the very few indeed.)
You can check the plethora of 'Memosux' threads on the site,
Memeorex is always a gamble at best, (some are ricoh and are
decent) but the majority are bottom of the barrel landfill material.
Possunt Quia Posse Videntur. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2006 @ 05:51
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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8. September 2006 @ 08:57 |
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rcdm999-
You are mixing up two things: good/bad burns and good/bad media. You are correct in saying it's easy to determine good/bad burns, and testing to industry standards can confirm it. Determining good/bad media is not so easy. A good drive can make a bad burn on a good disc if the two are not compatible. The whiz-bang equipment is what is used to determine the difference between compatibility and quality.
Jizmak--
Your information is incorrect. Look at the factories, compare Verbatim market shares, then explain how Verbatim can maintain those shares with no Mitsubishi factory. CMC still makes most of Verbatim's DVDs, and Verbatim media are among the best. As for "proof" of quality, you need the whiz-bang equipment. The number of uneducated complaints on this site does not determine quality. If you want to rise above the screams of the unhappy horde, check some of the links above to get some technical background. You will understand why I like Verbatim and TY discs and why I think attacks on CMC, Memorex, HP, Philips, Imation, and TDK are often unjustified.
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Senior Member
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8. September 2006 @ 09:27 |
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Hey,
Here's my opinion.
I only buy and use Taiyo Yuden media now.
Use TYG01 and burn them at 4x.
I get 100% burns, and Real high quality% on PiPo Scanning.
Other media I used in the past, yes, they did burn 100% success, but the PiPo Scans were 0% quality, pure crap.
They would freeze, read errors name it !
It's like anything else, if you buy Memorex 16x and burn then at 16x and it makes YOU happy, good for you !
VSO Software Golden Membership Proud Owner / VSO Software Beta Tester
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. September 2006 @ 09:29 |
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I know I have been using Verbatim (MCC-003) and others for over 2 years now.
(None of which HAVE EVER coded to be CMC magentics).
My first Burnt verbs from over two years ago still show
no PI errors or anything and work flawlessly.
I will never know if they make it 100 years,
But I continue to use and support them beacuse of this.
http://www.m-kagaku.co.jp/index_en.htm
The Yokkaichi Plant, MCC
(They produce Verbatim media)
Along with its technological innovations, Verbatim has always been recognized universally for its superior manufacturing practices. Verbatim was the first media company to receive ISO certification, the de facto standard for quality management systems worldwide. This commitment to quality translates into consistent product performance and reliability. In addition, Verbatim provides toll-free technical support and service to enable its customers to maximize the performance of its products.
As a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation, a recognized world leader in the chemical and computer industries, Verbatim is ideally positioned to take advantage of changes in the market while continuing to challenge the frontiers of data storage.
Possunt Quia Posse Videntur.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2006 @ 09:38
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Senior Member
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8. September 2006 @ 10:07 |
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Just the fact that sooooo many people have so much trouble with CMC Mags, while using about every brand of burner imaginable, is enough to teach me to stay clear of them. That's not counting the problems I've had with them. Anyone I can help stop from having that headache, I will.
What burners give such great results with CMC Mags? I was able to get burns, and movie look good. But weeks or months later, when I tried to watch them again, on the same equipment, they're unwatchable.
That tells me a lot!
Never had those problems with Verbatim (MCC), Maxell or Fuji (Japanese made).
From my experiences, you'll never talk me into using CMC Mags, no matter what you say.......... :o)
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8. September 2006 @ 11:07 |
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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, flies like a duck, chances are it's a duck. I don't care WHAT some analysts say. Just because it might have white feathers does NOT mean it needs to be tested to see if it's actually a seagull.
Question: Who tests the test equipment for compatibility that's used to test our media for compatibility?
If it's TY or MCC, it's going to be good. PERIOD!
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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8. September 2006 @ 11:19 |
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Verbatim discs do not have to be coded CMC to be made by CMC. CMC uses MCC stampers that have the MCC code on them. This is made clear in my earlier postings. The Yokkaichi Plant is a chemical plant that actually has three parts: Shiohama North and Shiohama South that are inter-connected and Kawajiri, which is separate. There may be pilot lines in those plants, but they don't make enough discs to register on any production charts. 2005 production in Japan:
TY 320 million -R 90 million +R
Hitachi Maxell
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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8. September 2006 @ 11:19 |
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Verbatim discs do not have to be coded CMC to be made by CMC. CMC uses MCC stampers that have the MCC code on them. This is made clear in my earlier postings. The Yokkaichi Plant is a chemical plant that actually has three parts: Shiohama North and Shiohama South that are inter-connected and Kawajiri, which is separate. There may be pilot lines in those plants, but they don't make enough discs to register on any production charts. 2005 production in Japan:
TY 320 million -R 90 million +R
Hitachi Maxell 130 70
New Star Digital 12 1
AMC/Kitano 10 3
Sony 9 2
TDK 4 2
Panasonic 3.1 0
Ricoh 0 0.8
Verbatim/MCC is a leader in optical discs. If they work for you--and they probably will--recommend them. For those discs that do not work--warn people that your particular burner with its existing firmware is incompatible and that you don't recommend them. If you want to talk about QUALITY instead of bad experiences, buy an Expert tester for $47,000 (It's the least expensive reliable tester on the market) and point out the deficiencies of discs. Accusations of poor quality cannot be based on hearsay (lots of hearsay makes it no more accurate than regular hearsay) or personal disappointment unless quality parameters are defined. Accusations of incompatibility are worthwhile--and even helpful--when the accuser mentions the drive and firmware. Almost no one seems to understand the difference between quality and compatibility.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2006 @ 11:32
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