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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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12. January 2010 @ 17:19 |
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Nothing to it really. If you detail (exactly) what you want to achieve it's quite straightforward. The only thing i don't know much about is 'N' routers, purely as i can achieve sufficient coverage and speed with 'G' technology and a healthy dose of DD-WRT.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. January 2010 @ 17:24 |
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Basically G is becoming outdated. N can push the signal farther and stronger, faster. Basically its the ferrari of Wifi devices. But my knowledge in these matters is a joke to say the least :p Guess I know what i'm reading up on tonight. Gotta get ready for work now... :(
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12. January 2010 @ 17:27 |
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Actually no, from what I read, all N achieves is faster. The maximum range of N is apparently pathetic compared to G.
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12. January 2010 @ 17:30 |
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Perhaps I should just stick with G. A tried and tested technology that just works. Sure does for creaky :)
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12. January 2010 @ 17:44 |
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Yeah, G does everything i need. When you get a chance, have a read thru the link a few posts up, the one that goes to two other links, just so you can visualise how the two different wifi setups are hooked up (and then it'll make sense why they're setup like that).
One setup is at my folks (i keep meaning to go round and up the security to WPA2) where i have two Buffalo's, one on each floor, one is hanging off the cable modem).
And at this place i currently have just 3 routers setup permanently (plus the ADSL router which is configured as a dumb modem). I have another couple Linksys spare but i can't find a use for them so i keep them as emergency spares.
Both types of setup provide sufficient coverage (and the two types were the best methods i could find to extend coverage over and above a single router).
Then there's the Buffalo (same model as the ones at my folks) i setup at the kids house, they only need a single router. I put DD-WRT on that too, not that they'd notice or care, but i made sure to set it up as WPA2/AES, half the houses in their street have wide open routers, it's amazing how many people leave them wide open :).
The way i see it, yes N is new/shiny and everything, and yes G has been around for ages, for my uses it just wouldn't buy me anything. For instance i don't even bother with gigabit on my network, i'm still happy with 100mbit. It would be nice to have gigabit, used (and configured) it at work long enough, at home i'm happy enough transferring gigs of data at 100mbit. Plus i'm far too attached to my 16 port Linksys switch that stacks with my main router.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2010 @ 17:50
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12. January 2010 @ 23:12 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
What, does no one use wireless routers?
Oman7,
I have one but it's a 108G. I could be wrong but it seems to me regardless of the speed of the router, it still depends on the speed of your ISP for Wireless N to really be useful. I don't think it will improve things very much if your internet connection is only 512k. I look at it like Sata! Promises, Promises! You are lucky to get around 100 with Sata 3.0!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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12. January 2010 @ 23:22 |
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Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2010 @ 23:26
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12. January 2010 @ 23:24 |
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MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
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12. January 2010 @ 23:26 |
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That is a good point actually, and one i always forget, streaming can indeed be a wifi killer. I only watch SD streamed content, and only watch it over ethernet, this is where the wifi router configurations i use help to minimise streaming problems. I should add however that i hardly watch any TV at all anymore, 2 soaps and the odd drama, and bit of daily news (most mainstream news is disinformation anyway) so my streamed watching doesn't really qualify as a reason for upgrading the broadband connection or new routers, but am glad you mentioned it, it's something to be aware of if your TV habits are heavy
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2010 @ 23:32
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13. January 2010 @ 00:34 |
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This is just for my mother. I am aware of the bandwidth limitations. My understanding is limited, but not that limited LOL! It's merely for a computer in another room, to have both an internet connection, and networked Printers(If possible). She said it would be cool, if it also had the ability to print from that computer. I see that as a possibility with a router. And rather than crawl under the house(Though I have to anyway), I'd rather run a wireless router.
This area won't see more than 7Mb's for a while. It's a pretty small town. We both currently have 5mb connections. Which is plenty for my needs, and hers. We each have our own dedicated connections.
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Red_Maw
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13. January 2010 @ 01:43 |
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oman7,
I have D-link N router that has been working flawlessly for quite some time. IMO though G will work just fine unless you want to transfer/stream content between two computers on your network (wireless of course; best wireless speed I've seen so far is 12MB/s (was over FTP so I have doubts about the accuracy)).
I've used a Netgear wireless router/modem combo once (helped a friend set it up) and from that experience I am glad I don't own one. For some reason it was I found it much harder to configure and get working then my linksys and d-link routers & AP. Not saying Netgear is bad but personally I wouldn't buy one unless it got better reviews then the competition and/or offered a unique feature.
You might want to consider getting an AP instead of wifi adapters if you think you may ever have more the one machine in that area (saved me a bunch of money lol).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. January 2010 @ 01:16
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13. January 2010 @ 03:19 |
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Ahh man. You guys got my head spinning now LOL! WAP's, Repeaters, Routers, N, G, Wahhhhhh! LOL! Im reading about the W.A.P.s (Wireless Access Points), and i'm really not seeing any difference between them and a router. Doesn't a router do the same job? I wish I had this hardware in front of me. If I could examine it, I'd probably understand in minutes. Unfortunately, I have to know what i'm friggin buying ;) Currently, a router seems like the sweet spot. A switch is simply gonna share a connection.
Ok. Lets kill all birds with one stone. There is a blu-ray player in the living room. There will be a computer in the living room. The computer in the office gets the main modem. Or shouldn't I say, the router gets the modem connection, and the router handles the individual connections. Can't a router handle a BD player, one computer (wireless), and another computer wired? And somehow allowing printers on this network? You see here what i'm up against?
I'm reading your threads again creaky :)
So, wireless routers can be connected to one another, much like extension cords, or connecting power strips to one another. Interesting. Can my above problem not be solved with 1 device?
And if not. Let's say I choose the following router/AP
Buffalo
Each device needs a wireless adapter to connect to the router. This sounds like it's getting spendy. Wonderful... :(
Considering this card for the living room computer.
Gigabyte Netcard
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2010 @ 03:45
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13. January 2010 @ 06:54 |
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Well, network speed is about more than just internet speed. Transferring files between PCs or streaming them off another is also important. Despite being 54Mbps, the stability of wireless isn't enough to stream 1080p video off, even though that only requires a continuous 1-2MB/s tops.
As for S-ATA3, it almost makes sense. Using SSDs, you get quite close to 300MB/s or so, though admittedly you don't touch it yet. The one area where S-ATA 3 will benefit is the SSDs that are multiple drives built in with their own RAID controllers. They WILL max out SATA 2, easily.
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13. January 2010 @ 07:29 |
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I don't know how to make those easy on the eye network diagrams, hopefully this will make sense (the 'WDS config' is folks' house, the 'Roaming config' is my place) ~
WDS config - 2 wifi routers (WDS, WPA, same SSID, same channel), one on each floor, the routers are connected to each other wirelessly (WPA though needs to be upped to WPA2/AES), everything in house on one large network
Downstairs
Cable modem / Router 1 (Buffalo WHR-G54S) / PC's on ethernet (or wifi to either router)
Upstairs
Router 2 (Buffalo WHR-G54S) / PC's on ethernet (though wifi can be used on anything) / any games consoles were on ethernet / extra switches as required
Roaming config - 3 wifi routers (WPA2/AES, same SSID, different channels, plus secondary virtual interface on main router has a different SSID), all on the same floor but spread across 3 rooms, the routers are connected to each other via ethernet, everything in house on one large network, any laptops/netbooks roam between routers automatically
ADSL router (bridged ie in dumb modem mode to enable WAN mode to main router) / Main router (WRT54GS v6) / PC's on ethernet / laptops on wifi to any router / old type xboxes & xbox 360 on ethernet / 16-port switch / netbook 1 on ethernet
Router 2 (WRT54G v2) / old type xbox & xbox 360 on ethernet / HTPC on ethernet
Router 3 (WRT54G2 v1) / old type xbox / netbook 2 on ethernet if streaming video, wifi to any router if not
Both setups use 54mbps G routers (one router is 108mbps as are a couple of PCMCIA cards but all are in 54mbps mode).
There are various other ways to configure wifi routers (moreso with DD-WRT firmware than stock as far as i'm aware), the 2 above methods use the minimum of wifi so streaming is only constrained by the speed of the internet connection, not the wifi connection as the wifi in the WDS setup is only of relevance between the two routers as all other stuff on that network is connected by ethernet. WDS halves the available bandwidth but i'd never found that to be an issue, as i say there are other ways to configure routers, the above are the 2 methods i've found to work the best for me.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2010 @ 07:32
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2010 @ 14:03 |
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Originally posted by Red_Maw:
oman7,
I have D-link N router that has been working flawlessly for quite some time. IMO though G will work just fine unless you want to transfer/stream content between two computers on your network (wireless of course; best wireless speed I've seen so far is 12MB/s (was over FTP so I have doubts about the accuracy)).
I've used a Netgear wireless router/modem combo once (helped a friend set it up) and from that experience I am glad I don't own one. For some reason it was I found it much harder to configure and get working then my linksys and d-link routers & AP. Not saying Netgear is bad but personally I would buy one unless it got better reviews then the competition and/or offered a unique feature.
You might want to consider getting an AP instead of wifi adapters if you think you may ever have more the one machine in that area (saved me a bunch of money lol).
Red_Maw,
You are absolutely right about the Netgear. I have a Netgear WGT624NAR 108G, and they are a pain in the butt to set up. This is a re-certified unit I bought for $11.99 about 4 years ago. I also purchased a Netgear WG111T Wireless 108G USB 2.0 adapter for $9.99 at the same time, also re-certified. I purchased the Router to back up an old 54Mbps D-Link router. It finally died about 3 years ago and I pulled the Netgear out and set it up. The install was a bit ugly, thanks in part to Netgear not wanting to know me because it was a re-certified unit. I finally got smart and called Verizon, and they helped me set it up. I've never had any problems with it, and even used it in place of the Lan cable for a while when a 100" cable failed on me. I use it mainly when I work on Laptops, or if I get a computer that's wireless to begin with, and I use it with my current HP DV6500 laptop, all the time.
I think the biggest gripe I have with Netgear, is their total lack of support, even though it's still their product. It's easy enough to set up when you know how, and it works extremely well. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another Re-certified Router from Netgear, although I would look at other options, as well. I've more than gotten my money's worth out of this one.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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13. January 2010 @ 14:27 |
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I really appreciate what you've done creaky. And on my own level, I have comprehended and been informed in my own way. LOL!
I'm trying to understand the complex nature of each device. Router, Switch, Access Point, Modem. I guess I understand what a modem does. And if I had to guess the exact nature of a router, from what I've been reading, it's essential to security over the Lan/Wan. It's been referred to as a Traffic cop on multiple sites ;) And yet it also does the same thing as a switch/Access point. So I'm still at a loss for why someone would need a dedicated access point, or switch, when a/or multiple routers will do the same job...
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13. January 2010 @ 14:50 |
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Modem - self explanatory, doesn't do any routing, think of the old fashioned diallup modems, they make a racket (ah, memories!) then connect to wherever, but that's all
Switch - I can't remember the exact terminology but suffice it to say a device plugged into a port on a 100mbit switch has the full 100mbit on that port, and the data is intelligently sent where it needs to go, whereas ~
Hubs - transmit that data to all ports or something. Hubs are pretty much irrelevant these days hence why my knowledge is rusty. I have an old Netgear 4 port hub somewhere that sometimes used to get used on Unix servers as there are times when a Hub can save the day, sorry can't think of a relevant example off the top of my head, haven't used a hub in a very long time.
Obviously if you have hardly any devices you can run everything off the 4 switch ports that most modern routers provide. I have more than 4 devices so i use as many switches as required. Cat5/5E Ethernet (which is all i use as i don't bother with gigabit at home) has quite a long workable distance, something like 300 feet or so, but of course extra switches can provide convenience.
There's managed switches where you can configure VLANS and whatnot, i am not a networking freak nor does my area of Unix cover much networking over and above what is required to build and administer Enterprise level servers (as you usually have dedicated network engineers, or there's system engineers who do a bit of everything. and various other people/roles but you get the point, at work there's Copper ethernet, Fibre Channel etc etc, but again i'm a bit rusty on all that good stuff, i've configured failover & fault tolerant connections, some servers have quad ethernet cards or multiples of quad cards, etc etc; these things are server-side hence why i know how to do these things, whereas there's some network configuration on the network side that someone else would take care of).
But anyways, there's also unmanaged switches where you don't have to configure anything, they're 'dumb' to a degree. The most you have to do on these is flick them into uplink mode as some switches have a fit if some switches aren't in uplink mode ie they clash.
Router - routes traffic, usually incorporates a 4 port switch. Modem Router usually incorporates a 4 port switch and obviously a Modem, plus does Routing.
'Gaming Adapters' - basically a dumbed down/stripped down router, basically a ripoff.
Access Point - basically a dumbed down/stripped down router i think, i don't bother with them, i just use standard routers and configure them as necessary. For instance, i just checked my main router and it has the following modes - AP, Client, Client Bridge, Adhoc, Repeater, Repeater Bridge.
There's loads more to it all but that's the easiest way i can describe everything. Got to go eat dinner but i'll come back and edit the definition of switches and hubs properly :), i'm sure Sam (for instance) can probably verbalise hubs and switches better than me, instead of me googling them, i always have trouble describing the two things. I've probably generalised above re Routers, there's NAT etc but i don't trouble myself with every detail on all subjects, i'm a great believer in knowing (more than) enough to be knowledgable but some things i just filter out if i don't need to know them, i research such things as and when i need to. Can only fit so much in the old brain you see, i tend to run out of RAM :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2010 @ 15:32
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2010 @ 15:24 |
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Dinner eh! lol! Eating breakfast here :p
Thanks creaky :D
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13. January 2010 @ 15:34 |
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I think that describes it all well enough (i've no doubt over explained some things as that's my way). Anyone feel free to correct anything i posted, i regurgitated virtually all that off the top of my head.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2010 @ 17:35 |
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Well...think what you want. I just bought the gigabyte wireless card, the wireless buffalo router, and a HEC HTPC case. Will have friday :D The case is gonna house an older MSI board, for my brothers living room media center :) and open up MY tower for my current gigabyte board. And my future gigabyte board(GA-790FXTA-UD5) will be going in my wonderful HAF 932 CM case.
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13. January 2010 @ 17:58 |
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Your money, but they're both only capable of WPA security. WPA/TKIP's days are numbered... you should really have bought something that supports WPA2/AES. Ah well, can't say i didn't tell you so :)
From Newegg's meagre list of routers i'd have picked this ~ Linksys WRT54GL
As to a PCI card i've have picked the Linksys WMP54G which i know is totally linux friendly, can't remember if it works under WIn7 though. Pricy from Newegg though. But at least that and the Linksys router support WPA2...
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2010 @ 18:03
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2010 @ 18:02 |
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Security. You're referring to people hacking into her stuff, correct? Hackers are generally only interested in things that are of interest to them! In over 2 years, her computer has seen 1 virus. She doesn't do a whole lot of google-ing, or visiting of untrustworthy sites. The only thing to really worry about would be someone hijacking here connection. In this town...pretty unlikely. So I think it will suffice for now. Am I mistaken? Im open to your input :)
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13. January 2010 @ 18:06 |
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The trouble with wifi is that there's too many people out there with sticky fingers, idiots who like to hack into neighbours' networks just because they can see them via a simple network scan. She was obviously more secure before on a wired connection, now she'll be visible from outside in the street.
If someone gets onto her connection they could be downloading or visiting places they shouldn't be and your mum would get the blame.
If you can't change them it's done now but if it was me i would only buy WPA2 capable stuff. People get taken to court often, even if it's blatantly obviously they wouldn't download certain things or visit unsavoury places, you only have to look in AD's news articles to see examples of that..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2010 @ 18:10
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2010 @ 18:08 |
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The population in this town is around 1,000. Maybe 2,000. Most of them are friendly people. Though we do live right next to the main highway through town...
I'd say the odds of her being hacked, or internet stolen are extremely minimal. Of course now that i've said that... LOL!
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2010 @ 18:27 |
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You've taught me much today creaky. Somehow I overlooked the encryption protocols, but in the future, i'll know now. Perhaps I'll even return the other.
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