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Intel P4 vs AMD
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8. February 2006 @ 17:45 |
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excuse me 5.1 logitec z-5450 sound
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2006 @ 21:00 |
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baltekmi,
Since most things are equal, to me the determining factor must be the Motherboard! The facts say look at the temps and memory. Both are very good quality. Temps are low and and the memory speed is fast.
I run an Asus P4P-800SE MB socket 478 MB with a P4 3.0, 800fsb, H/T at 3.60 (20% OC) with a 960 fsb and 1 Gb. of Corsair XMS (2x512 400Mhz DDR PC3200). It's as stable as a rock at memory settings of 2 2 2 6. I can live with the 58C max which it sometimes gets to when encoding. It will run stable at 3.75. I'm just not crazy about temps in the high 60s while encoding, so I run it at 3.60 and am very happy with the way it runs and the fine members of this forum who suggested, helped and generally poked, prodded and knocked on my head a few times before I learned enough to improve this computer, which runs rings around my old?? Dell 3000 P4 3.0 800fsb. Even with equal memory running at 3.0 and using the same componants, it was a much faster machine. I highly recomend this MB for anyone with a P4 who wants to over-clock.
Sincerely,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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8. February 2006 @ 21:48 |
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i see what you are saying, but i need nore info on memory timing I think to make it more stable. heck, i oc'd to 3.8 with no problems untill i played games. and all I ever got was a drop off.
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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8. February 2006 @ 23:18 |
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Baltekmi
I like the old PC I have, a P4 Northwood running at 3.4GHz (stock, locked OEM mobo). It has 2x1GB XMS Corsair Cas 2 matched performance RAM. It's HT and dual channel. I don't turn it off for days or weeks sometimes and do multiple bactch encodes often. It runs about as cool as one can expect from a stock box, no way of knowing the real heat buildup. If performance is an indicator, it's well within it's limits because it never skips a beat. I posted my benches for the PC and it is comparable to the highend single core AMD processors (stock). That's comparing apples to apples. If I wanted to change the mobo and do a mild 10% OC, that would put the system at 3.7GHz without a strain. Currently the CAS 2 RAM isn't fully utilized due to the locked board settings.
That said, currently I would build with an AMD processor. I don't see sinking a lot of money in old tech. If I'm going to build a custom system, I want to go with the best currently available (within reason). Unfortunately Intel took the wrong direction in architecture for their processors. They appear to be getting back on track, but haven't caught up yet. Sometimes the AMD fans go a bit far in their enthusiasm, since much of the performance gain is minimal in the real world. But the differences are there, plus AMD has the better dual core for the time being as well. (Differences between dual and single core CPUs are very noticable, but that can be seen within offerings of the same manufacturer, apples and oranges.) The AMD is also more OC friendly for the custom enthusiast. So, if you want to be a "bench" racer and win bragging contests, AMD is the way to go. Of course you could go with liquid nitrogen, or realistically water cooling, and OC a high end Intel; but AMD is the best with air.
Me I'm happy with the relatively inexpensive upgrade I did on my stock PC and that will tide me over till I build whatever. I can wait to see what happens with the newer systems coming along. AMD is still improving and Intel is finally making some interesting headway. That tied to the upcoming OS changes and possible system based encryption (affecting my video backups); not to mention the Blue-Ray and HDDVD technology soon to be delivered. I may not buy into all the new tech at once, mainly due to "pilots" usually being high priced and later versions get improved. However,I want whatever I build to be ugradable for developments coming within the year. We're at an interesting crossroad for both hardware and software development. Some of it may not be user friendly. That would be a good reason for a lot of people to hang onto their XP running systems as a backup for the new custom builds; at least till we know what we're dealing with.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2006 @ 23:35
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Member
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9. February 2006 @ 06:07 |
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brobear, ditto!!! I am happy with what i got and things are changing way too fast.It will be a while before i do another rebuild once things get settled and standards develope better. Thanks for the reply!
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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9. February 2006 @ 11:42 |
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MESMD
If you're planning to buy a computer then the best advice that I can give you is to find a local builder and don't buy a commercial make. A good builder is going to build to your specifications and the parts that they'll use will be far more vesatile than those used in a commercial machine, you'll be able to hold off obsolescence for a couple of years. The best commercial machines run over $4000, but you can build an equivalent for half that. I recommend that you focus on a dual core AMD X2/Opteron system.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. February 2006 @ 11:43
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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9. February 2006 @ 11:47 |
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Absolutely, and only a small manufacturer like pcspecialist will do my config for a PC, not a single other company will do an X2 4200, 2GB DDR and an X1900XTX for some reason, they only allow the XTX with say an FX-57 or 60, and only give you like X800GTOs and stuff with the 4200.
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afire77
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9. February 2006 @ 11:54 |
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Which Proc is better I am seeing mixed results for gaming, is it the 3800+ venice? or the 3700+ San diego? The cache is bigger on the 3700+ and the speed is faster on the 3800+ A table on tom's hardware
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=245&model... shows the 3800+ better in the game farcry in terms of fps which I thought having more cache helped, Lost as usual please help.
Bodycount
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2006 @ 12:41 |
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As a general rule, if you're leaving it stock, the 3800 will perform marginally better, hence its higher number. The faster speed helps for gaming generally, although it is a reasonable price increase over the 3700. Anyone who's a fan of overclocking however would choose the 3700.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2006 @ 12:43 |
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afire77
They're two different chipsm the 3800 is dual core and the 3700 is single core. For multi tasking or for multi threaded applications (many encoders/transcoders such as CCE and DVD Shrink are multi threaded) the 3800+ is better and it offers more future proofing in the event that games become multi threaded. But for now the 3700 has and edge for gaming but I would go for the 3800 and over clock it be cause it's close enough and in time when new games become multi threaded it's going to walk all over the 3700+.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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afire77
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9. February 2006 @ 14:10 |
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Thanks guys but what will I benefit from with having a proc with more cache? 3800+ = 512k 3700+ = 1mb ?
Bodycount
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afire77
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9. February 2006 @ 14:13 |
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Bodycount
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2006 @ 15:10 |
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afire77
Onboard cache is memory that allows the CPU to read ahead at the same speed as it is running. The result is slightly improved performance but if that's a concern then move up to the Opteron 170, for about a $120 more and it has the L2 speed and dual core. And Opterons are built to a slightly higher standard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103586
I prefer the Asus, I've heard mixed reviews about the MSI, but remember that the Asus in SLI blocks two of the PCI slots. Personally if I were to pick up a new board today I would probably go for the A8N-SLI Premium because I don't think that the 32 bit SLI is going to net much in performance and then I would spend the difference on the CPU. But that's just me.
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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afire77
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9. February 2006 @ 16:05 |
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What are the chances? this is a comment off of a asus sli deluxe board owner.
Had this board for six months & have reinstalled windows XP four times. Seems to have serious problems when I download windows updates or do any number of things I regularly do on other systems. Chipset fan is cheap and noisy and firewall is useless. nvidia IDE controller is a joke. I finally have system working by disabling both. All I do with it is play games & it is good for that but I'm not sure the few frames per second increase is worth all the grief. I can't say if this is an nvidia problem or an ASUS problem but I won't buy another nforce chipset.
Bodycount
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2006 @ 17:28 |
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afire77
I am an Asus owner but I didn't recommend the A8N-SLI Deluxe, I recommended the A8N-SLI premium which is a different board. First the Premium doesn't have a chip set fan it uses passive heat pipe cooling. so the only noise that you will hear is the dissonance in your head. Secondly while you were at newegg did you read the user opinions on both boards? Everyone liked the Asus board but the MSI board got mixed reviews.
Secondly no one uses the Nvidia firewall which is why I disabled it from the start, and have never used it, and by the way the MSI board you asked for opinions on has the same Nvidia NV4 chipset as the Asus does.
Thirdly the motherboard has nothing to do with your Windows XP install failures whatsoever, that's a user caused problem so it begs the question. Do you know what the hell you're doing and what the hell are you talking about? My thoughts are NO!!!
Lastly you asked me questions and I answered them honestly and politely only to get this snotty response from you. If your only intention was to play games with me then let me say this, you are an a**hole.
BTW, I've had the board for almost a year now without a single problem. I read about the chipset problem and called Asus and they sent me a replacement fan right away so that it was installed during the build.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. February 2006 @ 06:25
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Distorded
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9. February 2006 @ 20:05 |
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What is your question? Dual core verses single core? I own a dual core processor and lets just say i am currently backing up a DVD, listening to music, and here at the same time. I love my dual core and would laugh at the fool that bought a single core processor at this point in time. If anything they are always getting better. AMD got my support in the beggining but now has my dedication till the end. BTW, I was in a popular consumer products store recently and ran into someone that just bought a new computer. I asked if they had bought a AMD and they said yes (not knowing why). I told them good choice and they asked if I worked for the store. I gave them a thumbs up and went on my way, it feel good to help others.
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Distorded
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9. February 2006 @ 20:05 |
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What is your question? Dual core verses single core? I own a dual core processor and lets just say i am currently backing up a DVD, listening to music, and here at the same time. I love my dual core and would laugh at the fool that bought a single core processor at this point in time. If anything they are always getting better. AMD got my support in the beggining but now has my dedication till the end. BTW, I was in a popular consumer products store recently and ran into someone that just bought a new computer. I asked if they had bought a AMD and they said yes (not knowing why). I told them good choice and they asked if I worked for the store. I gave them a thumbs up and went on my way, it feel good to help others.
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. February 2006 @ 08:14 |
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1. Erm sophocles, there is a single core 3800 as well, which is a bit cheaper, obviously.
2. Hardware issues can cause issues with installing XP, it's rare but can cause issues. Essentially installing XP is the first acid test to see if your hardware is all ok.
3. Single core vs. dual core? Apples and oranges. The X2 3800 is far better value than the single core equivalent, but more expensive.
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. February 2006 @ 09:22 |
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sammoris
We weren't discussing hardware issues in general we were discussing the motherboard as the cause and the motherboard configured properly does not create XP install issues. The hard disk can but not the motherboard if it's installed correctly.
I may have assumed that he was talking about the X2 instead of the Venice core 38000 but it was never a point of contention and is therefore moot in this discussion. Owning a Venice core I am well aware of its existence.
Quote:
3. Single core vs. dual core? Apples and oranges. The X2 3800 is far better value than the single core equivalent, but more expensive.
Which is why I suggested that he take a drop in motherboard price to make up the difference.
My problem with the discussion was being asked for and giving advice to someone who had no interest in the actual advice itself but rather in trying to make a snotty point about his likes and dislikes. Go back and read over all of his posts and my responses and you'll see that my time was being intentionally wasted so that it could culminate in his trashing both my equipment and the choices that I suggested.
I stand by my statement that he is an a**hole.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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The_OGS
Senior Member
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10. February 2006 @ 09:52 |
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Quote:
nvidia IDE controller is a joke...I won't buy another nforce chipset...etc
That's just dumb (sorry) but classic PEBKAC ;^)
You know PEBKAC afire77? I can explain if req'd...
AMD and nVidia and Asus (and ABit, I like ABit) make the best stuff available today.
Anyone 'installing XP 4 times' etc. has issues, they are clearly stuck on something - who knows if they know what's going on?
Lately I am using AMD Opteron DualCore 165 (S939) @ 1.8GHz w/ 2MB cache for all my 'power-user guy on a budget' builds.
$400 bucks (Canadian) not cheap but you are in the fast lane, playin' with the big boys y'know?
Good price for what you get, and better than any P4EE for 1/2 the price. Runs COOL and not power-hungry - more left for your crazy SLI rigs, LoL :^)
Don't be dissin' AMD, nVidia or Asus, blamin' PEBKAC on them...
Hiya Brobear - is this where you been hiding?
Regards to all
ABit AB9 Pro
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 @ 2.4GHz
2GB OCZ PC2-6400 Platinum XTC R2
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB
Enermax Liberty 620W
320GB/16MB WD, 150GB/16MB Raptor
Plextor PX-755SA DVD (SATA)
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novicebb
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10. February 2006 @ 11:05 |
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To Sophocles: Darn on zipzoomfly.com they have listed as socket 939 but I was a little suspicious when I saw on other sites that it was a socket 940 and that a socket 939 1.8ghz Opteron was actually 20 dollars more. Well I am still considering dual core as well so let me ask you. Is there a socket 939 2.0ghz Opteron cpu's? Also do you think I should strongly consider the 1.8ghz Dual core opterons processors and just over clock them to say 2.2ghz each core and should I purchas additional cooling devices to cool the cpu or can the stock heatsink and fan allow me to overclock the Opteron to that speed?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. February 2006 @ 11:11 |
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novicebb
The Opteron 170 is 2 Ghz. With decent memory one should be able to over clock the 165 to about 2.4 ghz and the 170 about 2.5 to 2.6 ghz. I chose the 175 because I wanted a guarantee to hit above 2.6 Ghz.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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The_OGS
Senior Member
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10. February 2006 @ 11:35 |
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Opteron 175, VERY nice CPU Sophocles :^)
$620 bucks (Canadian) my cost - how does that compare in your neck o' the woods?
I think I need a new Opteron 180, for myself... (or, I could buy a car!)
My old SocketA hanging in there - for me it's all in the vidcard, anyway.
L8R
ABit AB9 Pro
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 @ 2.4GHz
2GB OCZ PC2-6400 Platinum XTC R2
ATI Radeon X1900XT 512MB
Enermax Liberty 620W
320GB/16MB WD, 150GB/16MB Raptor
Plextor PX-755SA DVD (SATA)
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MESMD
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10. February 2006 @ 11:46 |
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Sophocles,
Thanks so much for your advice. Could I have, for instance, Tiger Online or one of the other online sellers, build my system according to the specs you have recommended, using the configuration, cpu (dual core amd opteron system), etc. Or do you mean find a local store in my area to build the computer according to the cpu and other specs.?
Thanks again,
Miles
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. February 2006 @ 11:55 |
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MESMD
I'd recommend a local builder so that if anything goes awry you can get in touch with him/her quickly. Make sure that you specify the parts that you want and stick to your guns.
Have you ever considered building it yourself? It's not as difficult as you might imagine.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
