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Nvideas rsx pipelines vs 360 ATI pipelines 360 core vs ps3 cell
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TruthMan
Member
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11. January 2006 @ 06:08 |
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anubis bad effort, let me say it.
@ everyone
you could double a games graphical quality and it would still be using only 1 core (using 30% of power), UNLESS IT IS MULTI-THREADED, then AND ONLY THEN can it utilise 100% raw power.
and kookoo when games are multi-threaded games WILL get bigger, but physic detail enchancements arnt that big, really they aint (so its a good tradeoff).
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
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fazyninja
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11. January 2006 @ 07:12 |
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ahh interesting i did not know that before, thanks.
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KoOkOo67
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11. January 2006 @ 10:55 |
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zelda, I said multy threaded.
Quote:
85% mark.
No, i dont think it would be 85%
For a game that looks like that on the 360. It's defenetly not 85%.
Unless you know you want to put down the 360.
>_<
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zelda64
Senior Member
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11. January 2006 @ 10:59 |
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anubis you should get ideot painted on your head.
Try to do some simple maths with me.
1 Morrowind Oblivion = 1 DVD9
2 times Morrowind graphical enhancement = 2 DVD9
However if you look at Truthmans post you will notice that this is the case even more so.
Do you get it now anubis or you going to come up with somthing rubbish again becuase you want to see games come out on 10 discs on the 360 so you can put it down? I think you running low on idea's now arnt you?
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. January 2006 @ 12:38 |
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even so, im just saying the graphics can only go to a limit, and the threads do not matter for more than speed by too much.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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KoOkOo67
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11. January 2006 @ 12:45 |
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Zelda, can u post the article where you have read this again? If you havnt done so?
The game is'nt multy threaded though.
Multy threaded games will make size increase by alote.
>_<
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. January 2006 @ 12:50 |
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kookoo why is that? how would more threads make it bigger? i must know! lol
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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KoOkOo67
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11. January 2006 @ 13:44 |
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Wouldnt this make sence?
If 83% of the 360 CPU is used, that means 2 and a hlaf cores are used.
We know that each core has 2 threads.
That would make the game Multy threaded.(5 threads)
Which doesnt work.
Games wont be over 2 threads in 3-5 years.
I think the game was single threaded, then it was doubled. 2 threads. Therefore the game uses 33% of the 360.
Rather than 1/6 of the 360.
Unless proven wrong.
>_<
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. January 2006 @ 14:04 |
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but only 33%of the processor, but the video card may not be able to handle much more graphical things
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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KoOkOo67
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11. January 2006 @ 15:50 |
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...?
The video card doesnt limit the CPU.
The CPU decides how to use the GPU.
>_<
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. January 2006 @ 23:14 |
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i know, but nonetheless a gpu can only be used to its max, no more. even if you have the best processor in the world, if you put in my old radeon 7000 into a computer its still going to suck.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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KoOkOo67
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12. January 2006 @ 02:40 |
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The graphics will look the same on a Pentium 3 cpu with a 7800
and the graphics will look the same on a p4 with a 7800.
>_<
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. January 2006 @ 02:47 |
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um no they wont. my amd athlon said it was 1.15 ghz. i overclocked it to 2 ghz, and everything plays alot nicer. what speed is a pentium 3? the processor still has to give commands at a really fast rate to the gpu for the gpu to be used at best
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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zelda64
Senior Member
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12. January 2006 @ 11:05 |
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Quote:
There has been a lot of debate about the issue of multiple disks for games due to the DVD-9 format used on the Xbox 360. Right now this is not a problem obviously but one of the game that is due to be released has been speculated widely as a multiple disc game-Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. Well speculate no more. On the official Oblivion forums one of the devs has finally stated that it will be on one disc.
http://www.xbox360news.com/
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KoOkOo67
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12. January 2006 @ 11:40 |
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AMD and Pentiums are two completly different processors.
YES THEY WILL, one will be a bit slower that the other, but no graphic difference.
Unless is onboard graphics(intergrated)CPU will limit GPU. Graphic cards do the graphics. NOT THE CPU
Zleda i ment the 83% of the 360. Not the game.
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. January 2006 @ 11:42
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. January 2006 @ 16:24 |
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kookoo, the processor does matter alot. a game is not all run by the gpu. imagine a pentium 200mhz and a 7800gt.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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TruthMan
Member
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13. January 2006 @ 07:07 |
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ahh very good kookoo, you are actually good with this tech stuff now.
bravo :-)
anubis you are only 20% right.
OF COURSE processors count, BUT the reason why a faster CPU makes games play faster is:
a) because they can handle the physics much more effectively (primary reason!!!!!)
b) they can tell the GPU what to do faster, so it can issue more commands to it in less time, therefore making the GPU run even faster. but depending on the processor powering the system, GPU's can't go faster (unless overclocked) if there is no bottleneck.
just say a u have a 6200 and a 3000+ in one system, and a 6200 and an FX-57 in another. as the GPU isnt extremely advanced, even the 3000+ can power it with no bottleneck.
So using this you WOULDNT get a speed increase with the FX-57 (although you would with the physics handling as said earlier).
BUT better physics handling is only majorly beneficial to performance if its games that dont use extensive graphical rendering,
games like rome total war on the PC for example.
games that have LOTS of extensive graphical rendering are games like doom 3, quake 4, call of duty 2, etc.
getting a better processor will probably give a small/medium boost in performance in high graphic effect/detail FPS's, (the medium boost is if your old processor wasnt telling ur GPU what do do fast enough (it was bottlenecked), that bottleneck will either be removed OR made smaller).
you will probably get a medium/large boost if you play lots of RPG type games, or 3d strategy etc.
medium boost just through better physics handling, and a large boost IF your old processor was bottlenecking ur card.
but to put it in perspective, even a 7800GTX 256 standard can out task a FX-57, the processor simply cant tell the GPU what to do fast enough (yes even a FX-57), so the GPU is not being used to its 100% power.
although the bottleneck is MUCH smaller for the FX-57 than any other CPU for games, even the best dual core ones ( - arnt as fast yet) (as games are still only single threaded for PC and consoles).
so now ur probably thinking why even get a faster card than 7800GTX 256 standard (not overclocked) if even that has a bottleneck, well the reason better cards run faster (even with with bigger bottlenecks) is because they have better clockspeeds/more pipelines/better memory frequency/better technologies/better architecture/better memory architecture. etc (and lots of other things - 2 many to mention) They make MUCH better use of what they do get told to do by the processor. so there faster.
bottlenecks are most easily detected by setting a games settings to its lowest (and rez to about 1024x768) and slowly increasing each setting except the resolution. and if the *MAX* framerate is about the same even with min detail and full detail and its significantly recognisable (not just standard - as a NON bottlenecked card could get extremely similar results if it was just standard) then your card probably has a bottneck.
i have a X800XT PE overclocked (a lot) and a P4 3.84 GHZ processor - stable (overclocked from 3.2 - socket 478), and my card only just avoids any bottneck, just avoids it even @ 3.84 GHZ - about same performance in games as a 3800+ AMD @ 2.4ghz. THATS why clockspeed isnt everything. and the same principle applies to ATI and Nvidia cards (*ish).
its strange isnt it.
but even with biger bottlenecks, better cards = better performance
and anubis processors DONT AFFECT GRAPHICAL QUALITY AT ALL, not even a tid bit. thats all graphics card.
same graphics card with 2 different processors (one slow and one fast) = same picture quality in game (graphics) but different framerates. simple as!
and i explained above the differences a better processor can make,
the processor does matter a lot, BUT the graphics card is EASILY the most important component for games, then processor.
in general about:
(about 60% GPU, 30% processor, 10% RAM quality and size)
but ultimately that differs depending on the game.
(quake 4 will probably be like 80% GPU, 10% processor, 10% RAM)
(RPG's will probably be like 50% GPU, 40% processor, 10% RAM)
see it differs on amount of in game physics. although ALL GAMES have physics, or else they wouldnt work at all. (they wouldnt be games)
Don't judge the consoles by specs, more isnt always better, espec in PS3 specs.i know the truth, ask if u wanna know.......
Do not compete without valid correct technicality on your terms of the argument.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. January 2006 @ 07:13
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. January 2006 @ 07:16 |
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im just stating without a good processor you game may look ok but the play will not be so hot.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. January 2006 @ 11:31 |
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Lol truthman, i give like awhole tutorial. Lol
Kinda like reading an info tech book.
What is kinda wierd though, my cousin has like a P3
We both bought the ge6200.
Both games run the same.
But his has like 5 fps lower. Not much.
his is p3, mine is AMD 3000+.
But he got 1gb of ram, I got 512.
AHHHHHHHHH
nvm
Both will probably run the same on games. (360 and ps3)
With no differences.
So it doesnt really concern me anymore.
>_<
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fazyninja
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13. January 2006 @ 13:38 |
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damm truth man you write a hell of a lot, lol.
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vzero
Junior Member
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15. January 2006 @ 03:46 |
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Ok, this has all just gotten very stupid...
Right, to begin with Kookoo - your argument that the game has been "double threaded" is high quality tripe... It is impossibleto simply double thread a game, the output would be the equivalent of running the game twice over... pointless. However it probably does use 1/3 of the 360's processing power, since whilst the cores can handle 2 threads each, they don't have to... One thread is allowed to be set across the entire CPU, since the IBM architechture does not split it into two logical CPU's, but simplt one logical CPU with two possible data paths - therefore whilst this means more efficient multithreading is possible, it is not a requirement for the whole CPU to be utilised...
On another note. It is not neccasary to double the disk sizetodouble graphical quality. High quality textures can be fit onto a single DVD easily, and since you are not increasing any of the other elements of the game it is not really important that the disk be doubled in size..
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. January 2006 @ 04:47 |
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but u see, even old games like ut2004 with no extras had over 3 gigs of textures, and the entire game was about 5.5 gigs. if there happen to be about 7 gigs for hd graphics, that 7 gb will have to be on all disks. so if the game is 3gb, the game will become 2 disks, if it is 4 it will be n 3 disks. wireframing takes alot of space, so to look good the increase of size in indefinate. tsk tsk dvd.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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15. January 2006 @ 04:51 |
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I'm sorry but you are wrong. Texture design and compression has come on a lot recently and the new ATi architechture can actaully make very good use of lower quality textures on background materials. Not all textures have to be reproduced for each disk - only complex character textures and those that are used many times in teh game... on teh 360 it is possible to make the console library certain over-used textuires on free memory... DVD is fine as a standard for now, and it will not be a problem for the 360. Wireframes don't take up a lot of space but AI and Physics engine calculators do... This would not be a problem either...
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. January 2006 @ 04:58 |
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um yes wireframing does, expecially as complex as it is getting. why dont people believe dvd is going to cause a problem. some cmpanies struggle to fit it but throw away a few things to make the cut. and most textures are used often. look at say ff9 for example, the morld map and all its textures are on every disk with slight modification due to continuality and what has happend. all those are on every disk. and if u say "only some with be used often" that means they have to make even more textures for the next disk levels either way.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
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vzero
Junior Member
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15. January 2006 @ 05:24 |
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Well, whe I have spoken to designers they ahve said that wireframing does not take up that much space, so prove me wrong... I stand by my indication that only ceratin textures are reproduced... and even more importantly simple textures can be stored in data form and then be reproduced from information alone by the CPu and then sent to the GPU, so simple textures aren't a problem.
Take a look at Kameo. It has massively detailed textures but takes up far less than a full DVD9, which has more than 8gb of space... Blu-ray is more liekly tp cause problems for Sony, because of costs and because of the fact thta these super-high-procision drives do not like being moved - at all....!
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