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How I fix RRoD 360s (video)
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Senior Member
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29. January 2010 @ 23:46 |
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Hi all, I still see quite a few people that want to overheat their system after replacing the x-clamps which wont melt the broken solder that causes the red ring and will probably have the error come back (if it works it at all). Really you dont want to have the system itself creating that much heat anyway and going outside it's normal operating temperature (and perhaps damaging the system even further). This is the same basic idea as the towel trick which is an even poorer fix.
Here is a view of the solder cracks. As you can see they are quite small and the reason why overheating, penny fix or simple x-clamp replacements may work: they can temporarily get the solder to make the connection again. The problem is if the crack isnt fixed, it will only get worse as oxidation builds up inside and the crack widens.
I've been pretty successful using the heatgun method to melt the solder back together fixing many 0102s, e74s, no video and other 3 reds like 0020, 0110, etc. Here is the video I made showing you how I do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvfBS6Tams Basically you want to do 1 minute on the low setting of your heatgun on the bottom of the motherboard. Then flip to the top and heat on high for 4 minutes, hitting the cpu, gpu, ram, southbridge and hana chip. Be sure to let the system cool for about 30-45 minutes and not to move the motherboard at all while it's cooling.
Afterwards make sure you have 3mm of spacing on the bottom side of the motherboard (same height as the standoffs around the edges of the chassis). So if you want to drill, enlarge the holes to 5mm for the screw to pass through (but NOT the screw head) then use 3 1mm thick washers. I dont drill because my flat tapered-head screws have a 2mm head so I put one 1mm thick washer on and my motherboard sits nice and even with the other standoffs. On the top side you use 2mm worth of washers between the heatsink and motherboard like most tutorials suggest.
If the solder has successfully reflowed and your spacing is correct your system should be good to go for a long time and wont even need fan mods. Be sure to always leave the system laying horizontal and not on carpet/electronics, in a cabinet, or on a dusty shelf. Any questions feel free to ask. Good luck :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. September 2010 @ 15:14
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Senior Member
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30. January 2010 @ 06:10 |
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Nice job bro. Use the same gun, thanks for the tips.
-MG
P.S. Rated your vid on youtube.
"All drives should be updated to Lite Touch + (LT+) firmware if playing on XBOX live. Samsung drives and pre-78/79 Hitachi drives do not utilize AP 2.5. All other drives are considered to be detectable by Microsoft (YMMV). Make sure all rips are ABGX verified, contain SSv2, and patched AP2.5 (where needed). XGD3 must currently be burned on new drive with PC Burner Max firmware for 100% rip. All modded consoles can be potentially unsafe for use on XBOX live."
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gcooldude
Member
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30. January 2010 @ 11:16 |
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I did this and it was working. When I first tried it I didnt have the fan shroud on so the fan got really loud and the cpu heatsink was really hot. Turned it off and tightened the screws and its fine now.
So how does this method work? What was wrong with it what this process worked? I had 3 RROD and now its working.
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Senior Member
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30. January 2010 @ 11:19 |
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Most of the time the problem is because the x-clamps cause upward flexing and break the lead free solder. X-clamps replacement stops the flexing and the heatgunning fixes the broken solder.
Here's a little part 2 to my tutorial if heat gunning doesnt work on more stubborn/warped motherboards. The next step I do is to do a low temperature oven bake to get rid of any flexing/warping of the board and chips as well as moisture (which is a problem in florida's humidity). First make sure the heatsinks are off and cpu/gpu are thoroughly cleaned. Then basically I just put a couple layers of tinfoil on the rack on my oven to provide some cushioning for more delicate components under the board. Then I set the temperature to the lowest setting of 170F (about 80C). After it's preheated a little I put the board in. No insulation is required because it doesnt get hot enough to pop the capacitors or even melt the plastic (though a little tinfoil over the plastic parts couldnt hurt if you want). Some people let it go for 8 hours or more but 4 seems fine to me. After the time is up, turn off the oven an let it sit in there for another 15 minutes. Then open the door and let it sit for another 5. Immediately after it's cooled do the heatgun reflow skipping the step where you preheat the board on the bottom.
If the low temp + heatgun fails then the problem is likely a component that has failed or is damaged, not broken solder. Replacing damaged components is pretty difficult and not really something that can be attempted with home tools. You could also try the high temperature oven method as a last resort http://xbox-experts.com/tutorial/the-ult...eflow-tutorial/
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2010 @ 00:37
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gcooldude
Member
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30. January 2010 @ 11:20 |
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I did the xclamp fix months ago so why would it have stopped working now?
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Senior Member
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30. January 2010 @ 11:38 |
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Originally posted by gcooldude:
I did the xclamp fix months ago so why would it have stopped working now?
because when you did the x-clamp fix you probably overheated the system rather than reflowing. Overheating can have the connection expand enough to make contact but is not hot enough to actually melt the solder. Now the connection has come loose again so you have the 3 red.
This can also happen sooner if the x-clamp replacement hasnt been done properly (if you have more than 3mm worth of spacing on the bottom side like with 2 washers + screw head). You need 3mm of spacing so that the motherboard sits completely flat and even with the rest of the standoffs around the chassis. Otherwise you're doing basically the same thing that the x-clamps were doing: flexing the motherboard upward underneath the cpu and gpu
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 22:23
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gcooldude
Member
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30. January 2010 @ 12:07 |
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Originally posted by w00ly:
Originally posted by gcooldude:
I did the xclamp fix months ago so why would it have stopped working now?
because when you did the x-clamp fix you probably overheated the system rather than reflowing. Overheating can have the connection expand enough to make contact but is not hot enough to actually melt the solder. Now the connection has come loose again so you have the 3 red.
This can also happen sooner if the x-clamp replacement hasnt been done properly (if you have more than 3mm worth of spacing on the bottom side). You need 3mm of spacing so that the motherboard sits completely flat and even with the rest of the standoffs around the chassis. Otherwise you're doing basically the same thing that the x-clamps were doing: flexing the motherboard upward underneath the cpu and gpu
So if I dont drill holes I need 3mm between the board and the case and then 2mm from the board to the heatsink?
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Senior Member
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30. January 2010 @ 12:13 |
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Yes 3mm including the head of the screw. My screws have a 2mm thick head so I just need one 1mm thick washer. I like using the 2mm thick washers on top rather than 2 of the thin ones too but the thin ones will work too (you just have to make sure they lay flat around the screw so that you can get the screw all the way in
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gcooldude
Member
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31. January 2010 @ 15:14 |
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Nevermind, video is fine. But how long will this heatgun fix last for?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. January 2010 @ 15:27
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gameover9
Suspended permanently
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31. January 2010 @ 15:18 |
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heatgun is not a reflow. Freaking noobs
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gcooldude
Member
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31. January 2010 @ 15:24 |
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Originally posted by gameover9:
heatgun is not a reflow. Freaking noobs
Whatever the heatgun did fixed it...for now. Might buy a banned console off a friend and then retire this one.
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coorva
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. January 2010 @ 15:34 |
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thats all i have used and have had luck with it,,so i guess im a noob to,,we are not all perfect like the senior guys,,
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gcooldude
Member
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31. January 2010 @ 15:36 |
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Originally posted by coorva:
thats all i have used and have had luck with it,,so i guess im a noob to,,we are not all perfect like the senior guys,,
And we all cant afford a reflow machine. And nobody in my area does that. Only people I know do xclamp fixes so to ship it away to someone would be expensive and would have to trust them a lot to know that i'll be getting my xbox back.
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coorva
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. January 2010 @ 15:51 |
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Originally posted by gcooldude:
Originally posted by coorva:
And we all cant afford a reflow machine. And nobody in my area does that. Only people I know do xclamp fixes so to ship it away to someone would be expensive and would have to trust them a lot to know that i'll be getting my xbox back.
ouch,,
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gameover9
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31. January 2010 @ 16:06 |
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relax. I was just stating a fact. If being called a noob is that hurtful, then so be it. Heatgun is a temp fix and xclamp is a horrible fix that flexes the motherboard. These are not perm. fixes like a true reflow.
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johnny412
Member
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31. January 2010 @ 16:07 |
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Originally posted by gameover9:
heatgun is not a reflow. Freaking noobs
Dude there you go again. Looks like you would have learned your lesson by now. Wonder how long they will give you this time?
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ddp
Moderator
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31. January 2010 @ 16:29 |
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gameover9, we are all noobs when we started here & still are in some areas including us mods so knock off the noob comments as you have been temp banned 3 times so next time is permanet ban. a heat gun can do reflows depending on the application. i had almost 4.5 yrs of doing board rework on sun microsystems, cisco systems, nokia & a few others when working at celestica so i've been there & done it.
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Senior Member
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31. January 2010 @ 17:36 |
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Originally posted by gameover9:
relax. I was just stating a fact. If being called a noob is that hurtful, then so be it. Heatgun is a temp fix and xclamp is a horrible fix that flexes the motherboard. These are not perm. fixes like a true reflow.
you may own a reflow station but it's pretty apparent you either don't know what you're talking about or are simply outright lying (i mean why wouldn't you lie, you want business right? And your past actions here demonstrate you dont mind breaking or bending a few rules). A heatgun can and does do reflows. The solder melts and "reflows" back together. It does the exact same thing as a reflow station except your reflow station can only target one component at a time (like the gpu) whereas I can hit the hana as well.
Furthermore if you have a problem with the x-clamp fix then you are simply not doing it right. If you have 3mm worth of spacing on the bottom between the motherboard and chassis then you have the exact same height as the rest of the standoffs around the chassis. How does having a motherboard that now lays flat and even with the chassis a bad thing? How can it warp if it is flat? You re-use the x-clamps, that should tell anyone who knows what causes flexing in the xbox that you dont completely know what you're doing.
But you can say all the nonsense that you want. My results speak for themselves as my two personal systems were both RRoDs and have been going strong for a year now as well as countless systems for friends and people online and I don't have returns.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. January 2010 @ 17:37
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johnny412
Member
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31. January 2010 @ 17:38 |
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Very well put...
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gameover9
Suspended permanently
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31. January 2010 @ 19:04 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
gameover9, we are all noobs when we started here & still are in some areas including us mods so knock off the noob comments as you have been temp banned 3 times so next time is permanet ban. a heat gun can do reflows depending on the application. i had almost 4.5 yrs of doing board rework on sun microsystems, cisco systems, nokia & a few others when working at celestica so i've been there & done it.
Permanet ban for what? You serious? Man, can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Just like the rest of the good guys on here. What the heck does working on cisco products have to do with reflowing? So the company you worked for heatgunned their products? You're not making sense...
You guys are missing the point of a true reflow. How do you know the solder resealed? You don't and you're guessing. A true reflow consist of xraying the motherboard to check and assure the solder has resealed. But what do I know, you're probably using superman's heatgun afterall.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. January 2010 @ 19:15
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Senior Member
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31. January 2010 @ 19:15 |
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game you say your gonna stay away,u also state ur gonna start ur own board yadada,but u keep coming back with your comments that get you in trouble
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johnny412
Member
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31. January 2010 @ 19:18 |
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Originally posted by gameover9:
Originally posted by ddp:
gameover9, we are all noobs when we started here & still are in some areas including us mods so knock off the noob comments as you have been temp banned 3 times so next time is permanet ban. a heat gun can do reflows depending on the application. i had almost 4.5 yrs of doing board rework on sun microsystems, cisco systems, nokia & a few others when working at celestica so i've been there & done it.
Permanet ban for what? You serious? Man, can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Just like the rest of the good guys on here. What the heck does working on cisco products have to do with reflowing? So the company you worked for heatgunned their products? You're not making sense...
You guys are missing the point of a true reflow. How do you know the solder resealed? You don't and you're guessing. A true reflow consist of xraying the motherboard to check and assure the solder has resealed. But what do I know, you're probably using superman's heatgun afterall.
No...YOU are missing the point. You dont have to be an ass and call people names needlessly in every post you make!!!
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gameover9
Suspended permanently
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31. January 2010 @ 19:18 |
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Originally posted by infam0us:
game you say your gonna stay away,u also state ur gonna start ur own board yadada,but u keep coming back with your comments that get you in trouble
When did I state I was starting my own board? I like trouble and reading the responses. I'm the Howard Stern of AD
It's a game man....
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gameover9
Suspended permanently
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31. January 2010 @ 19:19 |
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Originally posted by johnny412:
Originally posted by gameover9:
Originally posted by ddp:
gameover9, we are all noobs when we started here & still are in some areas including us mods so knock off the noob comments as you have been temp banned 3 times so next time is permanet ban. a heat gun can do reflows depending on the application. i had almost 4.5 yrs of doing board rework on sun microsystems, cisco systems, nokia & a few others when working at celestica so i've been there & done it.
Permanet ban for what? You serious? Man, can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Just like the rest of the good guys on here. What the heck does working on cisco products have to do with reflowing? So the company you worked for heatgunned their products? You're not making sense...
You guys are missing the point of a true reflow. How do you know the solder resealed? You don't and you're guessing. A true reflow consist of xraying the motherboard to check and assure the solder has resealed. But what do I know, you're probably using superman's heatgun afterall.
No...YOU are missing the point. You dont have to be an ass and call people names needlessly in every post you make!!!
by calling someone a noob? seriously? You must not play on xbox live. I'm sure you've been called worse.
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Senior Member
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31. January 2010 @ 19:26 |
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Originally posted by gameover9:
You guys are missing the point of a true reflow. How do you know the solder resealed? You don't and you're guessing. A true reflow consist of xraying the motherboard to check and assure the solder has resealed. But what do I know, you're probably using superman's heatgun afterall.
No you're right I dont have an x-ray machine like most people on here. If you did look at it with an x-ray and it had reconnected would that not mean that it was a reflow? Any way, I dont know for sure that the solder has resealed but I do know that it works every time on systems that havent been worked on before and for long term. I'm just trying to help the average person on here with a fix that requires a $20 heatgun and about an hour and a half from the time you open it until the time it starts up. That's all people want: a method that works. Who cares what you call it!
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