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How I fix RRoD 360s (video)
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dalecore
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18. February 2010 @ 20:38 |
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This has to be the worst generation of consoles when it comes to technical difficulties.
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AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
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19. February 2010 @ 06:13 |
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Originally posted by dalecore:
This has to be the worst generation of consoles when it comes to technical difficulties.
True but at least M$ owned up to this and given us the 3 year RROD/E74 warranty.
To get instant assistance with Flashing / JTAG / Homebrew from experts for free! click me (Im not one of the said experts BTW)
Make poverty history, cheaper drugs NOW! |
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bklyn1028
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19. February 2010 @ 16:03 |
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Originally posted by w00ly:
I got a couple 360s to repair today and I asked the guy if they'd ever been worked on before. He said they had had the x-clamp fix done before and it worked for a little while but the same e74 came back. So I told him I could probably fix it for him and when I took it home I saw the metal chassis was bowing out underneath where the x-clamps are. "Too many washers" I thought--little did I know how right I was:
That's 5 washers per screw! Waay too many and was seriously making the chassis flex outward lol! He did use the same tapered head screw that I use but I only use *1* not 5 (and it's nylon not metal like these). So yea...dont do your xbox like this kids :)
Ok, I got a question. I took it apart, did all that i was supposed to do via youtube, drilled holes in the chassis etc. When I turned it back on, the fan came on for a sec, then died, and voila, now i have 2 red lights. I have tried screwing the M/b into the chassis, and I have tried screwing the heatsinks directly to the M/b without going through the chassis. Now I have 2 redrings, the fan shuts off in 4 seconds, and i'm at a loss. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, one nylon and one steel on the bottom, and one nylon and one steel between the heatsinks and the m/b.
garlic and olive oil.....makes a person sound...maybe a little mayo too...forget the mayo...had a stint put in.....
EVGA 680i....Intel E6600......2 hitachi 120GB sata...striped nvidia raid 0..2 GB Corsair DDR2 1066...NZXT Lexa case....EVGA 8800GTX ...NEC 3550 dvdrw, Toshiba dvd rombof DEll 2405fpw
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Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 05:34 |
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Originally posted by bklyn1028:
Ok, I got a question. I took it apart, did all that i was supposed to do via youtube, drilled holes in the chassis etc. When I turned it back on, the fan came on for a sec, then died, and voila, now i have 2 red lights. I have tried screwing the M/b into the chassis, and I have tried screwing the heatsinks directly to the M/b without going through the chassis. Now I have 2 redrings, the fan shuts off in 4 seconds, and i'm at a loss. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, one nylon and one steel on the bottom, and one nylon and one steel between the heatsinks and the m/b.
That's the problem with these old youtube videos. They all have the spacing on the bottom wrong with 2 washers (and most of them tell you to overheat). You need 3 washers on the bottom if you've drilled through the chassis and the screw head is on the outside. If the screw is inside the chassis you only need 1 (and preferably tapered head screws). It's possible you dont have enough thermal paste too. Remove your heatsink and see if there's a nice square imprint of the thermal paste on it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 05:37
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bklyn1028
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20. February 2010 @ 08:03 |
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Originally posted by w00ly:
Originally posted by bklyn1028:
Ok, I got a question. I took it apart, did all that i was supposed to do via youtube, drilled holes in the chassis etc. When I turned it back on, the fan came on for a sec, then died, and voila, now i have 2 red lights. I have tried screwing the M/b into the chassis, and I have tried screwing the heatsinks directly to the M/b without going through the chassis. Now I have 2 redrings, the fan shuts off in 4 seconds, and i'm at a loss. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, one nylon and one steel on the bottom, and one nylon and one steel between the heatsinks and the m/b.
That's the problem with these old youtube videos. They all have the spacing on the bottom wrong with 2 washers (and most of them tell you to overheat). You need 3 washers on the bottom if you've drilled through the chassis and the screw head is on the outside. If the screw is inside the chassis you only need 1 (and preferably tapered head screws). It's possible you dont have enough thermal paste too. Remove your heatsink and see if there's a nice square imprint of the thermal paste on it.
yeah, plenty of thermal paste. Its on the heatsinks, and on the chips. I wonder if the heatsinks are seated properly. I know when you put a heatsink on a cpu, it touches it directly, no washers. So, tell me, should I go through the chassis, or not. this is driving me nuts.
garlic and olive oil.....makes a person sound...maybe a little mayo too...forget the mayo...had a stint put in.....
EVGA 680i....Intel E6600......2 hitachi 120GB sata...striped nvidia raid 0..2 GB Corsair DDR2 1066...NZXT Lexa case....EVGA 8800GTX ...NEC 3550 dvdrw, Toshiba dvd rombof DEll 2405fpw
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htorihpeS
Member
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20. February 2010 @ 09:17 |
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@wOOly
Would this fix a cold solder point on the ram? Is this a permanent fix as in can you expect the console to last about two years after doing it? How long have they lasted in your experience? I have a xenon console with the ram error that is jtaggable. It did have 0102 but when I attempted the x-clamp fix, I screwed it up. There are probably a number of errors. As soon as the ram one is sorted, another one will show up. Though the heat gun should fix most solder problems right? Thanks.
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Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 15:09 |
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Originally posted by bklyn1028:
yeah, plenty of thermal paste. Its on the heatsinks, and on the chips. I wonder if the heatsinks are seated properly. I know when you put a heatsink on a cpu, it touches it directly, no washers. So, tell me, should I go through the chassis, or not. this is driving me nuts.
So if you just lay the heatsink flat on the chip do you still have overheating? If you screw the heatsink down with no washers though it's easy to get them uneven and not have good contact so be sure to always use 2 washers on top. As far as going through the chassis if you have 16mm long screws go through the chassis and use 3 washers on the bottom. If they're the 10mm long screws I prefer to leave them in the chassis and use 1 washer. Btw you said you had "plenty" heatsink grease but too much can be bad too so don't go overboard with it. A picture of how you're doing this and washers could help
Originally posted by htorihpeS:
@wOOly
Would this fix a cold solder point on the ram? Is this a permanent fix as in can you expect the console to last about two years after doing it? How long have they lasted in your experience? I have a xenon console with the ram error that is jtaggable. It did have 0102 but when I attempted the x-clamp fix, I screwed it up. There are probably a number of errors. As soon as the ram one is sorted, another one will show up. Though the heat gun should fix most solder problems right? Thanks.
Yes I've fixed the 0110 error a couple times with this method as well. Though I also had one when I first starting doing this that had 0102 and I slipped taking off the x-clamp and maybe nicked a trace or something near the ram and it ended up being unfixable with a 0110 error. As far as how long it will last the first ones I did like this about a year and a half ago are both still going strong so yea I wouldnt be surprised at all if it lasted 2 years if it was done properly and taken care of (ie not in a confined cabinet or really dusty shelf). It'd help if you let us know what you did to screw it up though. And yes I've fixed all sorts of errors with the method in the video including no videos, ram/cpu/gpu/hana errors, 1 ethernet error and 1 power error
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 15:11
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Falcon_uk
Member
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21. February 2010 @ 13:41 |
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Wooly did you manage to get that one up and running with all those washers mate , Interesting to know
Cheers
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bklyn1028
Member
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21. February 2010 @ 14:26 |
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Originally posted by w00ly:
Originally posted by bklyn1028:
yeah, plenty of thermal paste. Its on the heatsinks, and on the chips. I wonder if the heatsinks are seated properly. I know when you put a heatsink on a cpu, it touches it directly, no washers. So, tell me, should I go through the chassis, or not. this is driving me nuts.
So if you just lay the heatsink flat on the chip do you still have overheating? If you screw the heatsink down with no washers though it's easy to get them uneven and not have good contact so be sure to always use 2 washers on top. As far as going through the chassis if you have 16mm long screws go through the chassis and use 3 washers on the bottom. If they're the 10mm long screws I prefer to leave them in the chassis and use 1 washer. Btw you said you had "plenty" heatsink grease but too much can be bad too so don't go overboard with it. A picture of how you're doing this and washers could help
Originally posted by htorihpeS:
@wOOly
Would this fix a cold solder point on the ram? Is this a permanent fix as in can you expect the console to last about two years after doing it? How long have they lasted in your experience? I have a xenon console with the ram error that is jtaggable. It did have 0102 but when I attempted the x-clamp fix, I screwed it up. There are probably a number of errors. As soon as the ram one is sorted, another one will show up. Though the heat gun should fix most solder problems right? Thanks.
Yes I've fixed the 0110 error a couple times with this method as well. Though I also had one when I first starting doing this that had 0102 and I slipped taking off the x-clamp and maybe nicked a trace or something near the ram and it ended up being unfixable with a 0110 error. As far as how long it will last the first ones I did like this about a year and a half ago are both still going strong so yea I wouldnt be surprised at all if it lasted 2 years if it was done properly and taken care of (ie not in a confined cabinet or really dusty shelf). It'd help if you let us know what you did to screw it up though. And yes I've fixed all sorts of errors with the method in the video including no videos, ram/cpu/gpu/hana errors, 1 ethernet error and 1 power error
Ok, here's what i did:
went thru the chassis, and put one nylon washer ON THE TOP BETWEEN THE BOARD AND THE HEATSINK...the 2 heatsinks touch the chips. Turned it on, and no RROD....then I got 3 lites about 1 min later. So, I put the fan over the cpu, and let it run for 30min. then let it cool off for an hour. and now, I have ONE red light lower right corner.....sigh.
garlic and olive oil.....makes a person sound...maybe a little mayo too...forget the mayo...had a stint put in.....
EVGA 680i....Intel E6600......2 hitachi 120GB sata...striped nvidia raid 0..2 GB Corsair DDR2 1066...NZXT Lexa case....EVGA 8800GTX ...NEC 3550 dvdrw, Toshiba dvd rombof DEll 2405fpw
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Senior Member
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21. February 2010 @ 18:27 |
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Originally posted by Falcon_uk:
Wooly did you manage to get that one up and running with all those washers mate , Interesting to know
Cheers
nope, I put it in the oven for 4 hours at 170F to hopefully remove any warping in the board and then did a reflow, but it still had the same e74 so I imagine the gpu or hana were beyond repair (without at least finding the break with an xray and reballing which is probably more work than it's worth). I'm surprised it worked for him at all like that!
Originally posted by bklyn1028:
Ok, here's what i did:
went thru the chassis, and put one nylon washer ON THE TOP BETWEEN THE BOARD AND THE HEATSINK...the 2 heatsinks touch the chips. Turned it on, and no RROD....then I got 3 lites about 1 min later. So, I put the fan over the cpu, and let it run for 30min. then let it cool off for an hour. and now, I have ONE red light lower right corner.....sigh.
Try listening to my advice instead of doing the other method...the overheat and wrong amount of washers youtube tutorial does not work as you can see. You'll have to reflow using a heatgun first like my video shows and then do a proper x-clamp fix. And now to break out my amazing ms-paint skills, use the method on the right here:
You need to have 2 nylon washers under the heatsink (unless you have the ones that are twice as thick). The goal here is to get the heatsink to sit flat and evenly on the chip on the top side as well as the motherboard to sit completely even with the nearby standoffs on the bottom side.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2010 @ 18:30
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dalecore
Member
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23. February 2010 @ 19:21 |
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Originally posted by w00ly:
You need to have 2 nylon washers under the heatsink (unless you have the ones that are twice as thick). The goal here is to get the heatsink to sit flat and evenly on the chip on the top side as well as the motherboard to sit completely even with the nearby standoffs on the bottom side.
Ok so after I use the heat gun can I check it first? or do I go ahead and drill the chassis
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2010 @ 19:41
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Senior Member
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23. February 2010 @ 22:51 |
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after it's cooled down you can do the x-clamp fix, install the RF module and connect the dvd drive and then you can go ahead and test
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2010 @ 22:52
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dalecore
Member
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24. February 2010 @ 16:08 |
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Originally posted by w00ly:
after it's cooled down you can do the x-clamp fix, install the RF module and connect the dvd drive and then you can go ahead and test
I figured so. I think I got it running I had the two red lights problem it was my second time doing the heat gun technique and the first time around I didn't use the fan shroud which seems to make a VERY big difference. Even when I used the fan shroud before using the heat gun I never reached this level of success before. I'm afraid to do the chassis now I have flat head screws with the 2 washers on back and front of board doesn't look to be flexing.
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Senior Member
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24. February 2010 @ 18:09 |
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If you're not going to drill out the chassis, only use 1 washer on the bottom side. Put the screw with the washer on it next to one of the outer standoffs and see if it's the same height. You may not be able to see flexing with your naked eye but it can certainly be there if the spacing isnt correct
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shmirk
Junior Member
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24. February 2010 @ 18:30 |
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Hi w00ly, ive fixed around 10 xboxes using a very similar method to you and so far have a 100% success rate however i have hit a problem with one i have here
It is a RROD 0022 error and i have done the usual flux, heatgun, artic silver and reboot however i still have RROD.
Any ideas on how i can fix this? Typical it is the one i want for myself as it has a liteon drive and hdmi - so i have already flashed drive with LT!
Cheers
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Senior Member
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24. February 2010 @ 19:16 |
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Originally posted by shmirk:
Hi w00ly, ive fixed around 10 xboxes using a very similar method to you and so far have a 100% success rate however i have hit a problem with one i have here
It is a RROD 0022 error and i have done the usual flux, heatgun, artic silver and reboot however i still have RROD.
Any ideas on how i can fix this? Typical it is the one i want for myself as it has a liteon drive and hdmi - so i have already flashed drive with LT!
Cheers
I'm assuming you had the 0022 before doing the LT flash? Because 0022 is a short somewhere so not carefully repairing the traces can cause the 0022. If there's any other soldering like 12v fan mod I'd go ahead and remove that with some desoldering braid. Other than what you've done already there may not be much hope for it short of reballing. You could try flushing with alcohol or perhaps compressed air (never tried that but could be worth a shot). Dunno how effective it'll be since you already used the flux though. You could also try something like the low temp oven bake if there's any warping on the board.
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BoRGoUSh
Newbie
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24. February 2010 @ 21:44 |
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Hi w00ly,
I´ve searched through the internet for some proper x360 RROD fix and found this thread... At first I have to say it´s really impressive and interesting fixing method...
I´ve done first succesful RROD fix by the towel trick. the console worked fine for last 10 hours. Then I replaced the original x-ray clips with 10 mm screws without making larger holes to the chassis. Unfortunately, I don´t have a heat gun, so I can´t perform your trick rite now.
My first question is, you´re talking about the low temp and high temp heat gun... Unfortunately I live in center of Europe and can´t get the same heat gun as yours is. Could you please tell me, what´s the exact celsius temperature (both lo/hi) of the heatgun?
And here goes the second one... Do you think, that the lifetime of this fix can be raised by better cooling? I´m asking because I´ve had once RROD on my own console, but it went on again, so I decided to mod it by few holes in the chassis and two fans, that are blowing directly to the passives on both GPU and CPU, It´s over 14 months right now and I´ve not seen the RROD again. So can the lower heat of the machine improve the lifetime of this temporary fix?
I wanted to do the overheating trick of just the GPU (you´ll let the internal fan blow just on the cpu passive, cover the GPU passive by DVD-ROM and wait for 15 minutes), but I´m not sure if that does not the same as the towel trick...
last few words... I think, that if I´m able to get rid of RROD and then cool the... how to say... xbox "working temperature" a lot beneath the standard working temperature, maybe this method could fix the machine permanently...
Anyway if not, I´m gonna buy this heatgun and see what it can do :D
p.s.: Heatguns that are available in here are working between 60 celsius and 600 celsius.
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SYMBYAX
Member
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24. February 2010 @ 22:58 |
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400C/LOW 540C/HIGH
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dalecore
Member
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25. February 2010 @ 00:26 |
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What do you guys use to get rid of the stubborn thermal paste I don't want to do anything drastic I've just been using an old tooth brush and q-tips pain in the neck.
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SYMBYAX
Member
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25. February 2010 @ 00:38 |
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I use ArtiClean remover with Q-tips after the reflow I apply ArtiClean Thermal surface purifer wipe that off wait a minute or two then apply AS5
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Senior Member
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25. February 2010 @ 01:20 |
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First, never do the towel trick or overheating methods. They are very temporary methods that will only make it harder to fix...they just dont get hot enough to fix the broken solder and then oxidation builds up on the break.
As far as temperatures my heatgun does 1000F on high and 750F on low which is 537C and 398C. So the 600C one would be the one you would want to get but that's a bit hotter than mine so I dont know how safe it'd be. I'd certainly recommend isolation as a precaution (or even better find one that isnt as hot).
As far as cooling goes, yes cooling is important but not nearly as important as making sure the washers on the bottom side give the motherboard the same height as the standoffs and 2 washers on top so the heatsink sits flat and even. Heat causes the x-clamps to flex but since they're gone my fans never go into high speed mode so in my opinion they're adequate if the x-clamps have been removed. You should be just fine if you leave it laying out in the open on a clean shelf, horizontally.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2010 @ 01:21
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dacore84
Junior Member
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25. February 2010 @ 06:05 |
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w00ly: Can´t watch the video here at work and I hope it hasn´t been answered in the thread but what´s the name of your heat gun? How much does it cost? Thanks.
Edit: Ah found it, Wagner 1000.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2010 @ 06:52
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BoRGoUSh
Newbie
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25. February 2010 @ 06:13 |
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Ok, so as far as I get it, you´re telling me I shut buy that gun, re-open the xbox and do the heatgun trick as well? Will it fix 537 Celsium is not as big difference as 600, so I presume that would not make a big difference... you think it would?
Anyway, I just looked at some heatguns and there´s one that got two levels... 350/550, which is pretty close to your values. So I´m gonna get one and try your method...
Should I do it immediately, or should wait after the RROD will appear again after the towel trick?
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BoRGoUSh
Newbie
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25. February 2010 @ 06:16 |
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Emmm sorry for doublepost...
I just wanted to say that I for the x-clamp fix I use just 1 washer at the top and 1 at the bottom... my washers are 1.6 mm, the head of the screw is 2 mm and the screw is 10mm M5... So I guess my x-clamp HW is okay as far...
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BoRGoUSh
Newbie
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25. February 2010 @ 07:06 |
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dacore84: read through the thread, the answer is here ;)
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