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DVD Rebuilder with CCE Basic Vs. DVD Shrink
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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28. July 2004 @ 20:09 |
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Doc409
Run a search with DAEMON in caps and go back a few months.
I found a good guide on Daemon and one for Decrypter that covered all the modes, file, ifo and iso. Check out Doom9 and see if they're still there. That was what got me started using the ISO. Now I switch back and forth for what is easiest and what a particular software best uses. I can't say it is really better. However it does add to ones arsenal of useful tools. Besides, you are a Decrypter fan, you should learn all it can do.
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64026402
Senior Member
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28. July 2004 @ 20:10 |
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I have used DVDshrink 3.2. It does seem on par with IC8 quality wise. It should be a good second choice when needed. I have been to busy with Rebuilder to do a lot of shrink testing.
Shrink deserves an area of its own as I believe Rebuilder/CCE/Remake and any associated programs need a specific area for those desiring high end results.
CCE is not as wide spread but it is of considerable importance as the main encoding based DVD backup option.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2004 @ 20:18 |
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Hey doc, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. I don't think quality is better either way, just a different mode of transportation getting there(like all these damn apps we have, talk to sophocles, lol).
I use Mark's tray player to view files before I burn (and after some if there's problems). Very little informative tool. It's free, i can give you the link if you're interested or you may already have it. Either jdobbs or vurbal talk about it in the RB/CCE threads.
I use windvd 6 for comparisons as you well know and I have gone both ways (does that sound right? lol) with ISO and file mode. Brobear makes a good point with the way he uses them. I've got Alchohol 120, great little app btw, if you haven't tried it. Really good for bin/cue files.
I'm still getting that server error message, how about you?
 GO VOLS ! |
Senior Member
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28. July 2004 @ 20:23 |
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Quote:
From there I usually do DVDremake then CCE if the movie still needs compression. Then finish with Shrink to check for size and extra audio tracks and turn it to an iso again at the same time.
64026402 ... this is an interesting process. The CCE output should not need any more compression, should it? So, the trip to Shrink is basically to remove unwanted audio, right? And also to turn it back into an ISO once again to burn? Why not just burn the File mode output? Why is the ISO so important at this stage? Also, I go through the same basic process in file mode. I'm not getting it? Is it just one of those user preference things?
EDIT: @brobear. Thanks for the lead on Daemon.
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I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2004 @ 20:25
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Senior Member
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28. July 2004 @ 20:37 |
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bigorange...I have Mark's Tray, but it went TU. I can't figure out why it won't work anymore. I really liked it, though, and would rather use it. I have a "fresh install" that is due, and maybe then I'll have it working again.
Edit: The server speed has picked up quite a bit for me in the last hour. The last 2 days have been bad. Maybe a lot of Shrink d/l's?
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I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. (Pablo Picasso) This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2004 @ 21:47
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brobear
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28. July 2004 @ 21:45 |
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Something strange was happening with the server. May have been those cultists siphoning off some more goodies.
Doc, noticed you saw that convoluted use of ISO. That was a bit extreme, but I didn't want to jump on anyone's favorite toy. I just found ISO easier to deal with in some apps. Like feeding a HD file to apps set up to run with a disc only. It works with CD as well. Once you get used to using an emulator, it's easier than loading a physical disk and you know where the files are (not like hunting a disc on my cluttered desk). Those big ISO emblems in the browser stand out as well (depending on the prog that has ISO priority).
I even noticed a little mention of using an ISO in an emulator and loading that to RB/CCE. It was small mention and easily overlooked.
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Senior Member
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28. July 2004 @ 22:07 |
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Yeah, the feeding frenzy likely caused the equivalent of a virus's denial of service attack.
The fog is starting to clear on ISO's. Thanks for taking the time and patience to explain it, and refer me to other aspects about them. Also, I don't have the time for computer games, but my son does. I can see where a virtual drive would be real nice with Warcraft or one of those.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. July 2004 @ 07:11
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brobear
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29. July 2004 @ 02:31 |
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Emulators do have their uses. And ISO are easy to use once you get used to handling one big file. As I said, just another handy tool to use in recording and we can never have too many of those.
I'll make no mention of virus, I wouldn't want to disappear.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. July 2004 @ 02:44
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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29. July 2004 @ 12:56 |
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No way am I getting into another sig game. I spent 7 hour and 30 minutes with only a 50 minute break learning how to write a new Professional Development Plan that will conform to the new "NO Child Left Behind Law, and adequate yearly progaress," and at the end of the day 70 bewildered teachers left in a hurry. I figure a couple of stouts might do just fine right now.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
Senior Member
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29. July 2004 @ 14:06 |
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Sophocles ... 'Nice to have you drop in. Sounds like a challenging day, and no joke intended there. It sounds like those "students from hell" are "gonna hafta git sum lurnin'" whether they want to or not with this No Child Left Behind Law? The concept is good, the reality might be something else. It does sound like ya'll are required to do a bit of a magic act?
If you haven't seen already, Shrink got its own forum while you were gone. If brobear was in his grave, he'd be rolling over in it right now. Anyway, I was kinda hopin' you'd throw in a sig just for jollies? (just one?) :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. July 2004 @ 14:07
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brobear
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29. July 2004 @ 16:40 |
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Think of me when you have the good brew there soph.
Doc, it doesn't really matter that much to me about the section. We do know where to find all the Shrinkites now. It may work out, time will tell. I will keep my reservations however. People get caught up in the moment and forget to look to the future. Are we allowed to say Shrink outside the hallowed halls now?
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29. July 2004 @ 16:44 |
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Let's try. PM.
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. July 2004 @ 18:32 |
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You two take a chill pill, everything is gonna be fine. You agreed to begin with, now ya got all this crap runnin' around in your head. The shrinkies will still be where they all hang out, they ain't gonna come runnin' to AD, only people who wish to back up and happen to want to use shrink to do it. It is, after all, a pretty good proggy(as Pete likes to say) now.
I got some little white pills iffin' ya want one. heh heh
BTW, I'm outta here, be back in 10 days, hold down the fort. I might join ole sophocles in a brewski myself.
GO VOLS !
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. July 2004 @ 18:34
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Senior Member
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29. July 2004 @ 18:37 |
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The voice of reason amidst the clouds of controversy. :) .Thx. My kids do accuse me of having "senior moments" now and again.
Have a great 10 days!!! If you get a chance, drop a line?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. July 2004 @ 18:58
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brobear
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29. July 2004 @ 18:50 |
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Brewski and little white pills. What a happy little fellow we'll be. ;) Just kidding, couldn't resist the temptation. I'm out or I'd join you. Dry county and 20 miles to the water hole. BTW, have a good holiday. Get with me when you get back. Take the laptop and you can sneak away at night and drop an email. I know you have to have your little net fix occasionally.
Don't need a chill pill, what is done is done. Part of the reason for a new section was the idea of discussing the merit of improvements at higher compression and the slight difference in controls with the DVD Shrink 3.2. You can't give instructions now without knowing which version you're dealing with. What happened was that everything Shrink, old and new got lumped together. Sort of defeated the purpose in my book. The section is there, so there is nothing really to say about it. You are acting as though I was staunchly opposed to the idea. Note earlier that I said I was ambivalent on the matter. So, I wasn't truly for or against the idea. My reservations were about how the section would be set up. As it is, its a combined open forum on the subject of Shrink, old and new.
My new Shrink is better than your old Shrink... ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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30. July 2004 @ 15:56 |
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And then the silence.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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wensteph
Junior Member
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1. August 2004 @ 16:20 |
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I'm having a problem with my first try at Rebuilder and CCE Basic. I've followed the instructions in the guide. I'm running Rebuilder in the one click mode and my problem is that I get an Encode Basic error message that "Frame size 1248x56 is not supported. Supported frame size is up to 720x576".
I've tried various forum searches to see if anyone has had the same problem and didn't see anything relevant so I'm asking for help.
Thanks.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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1. August 2004 @ 16:25 |
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" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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64026402
Senior Member
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1. August 2004 @ 16:40 |
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Hello Wensteph,
I don't specifically recognize the problem so going through the setup in the rebuilder guide is a very good idea.
I took many trips through the guide before I got my setup to act the way I wanted.
It is a pretty easy backup once your setup is complete.
Donald
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. August 2004 @ 16:42
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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1. August 2004 @ 17:48 |
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@wensteph: It sounds like you have some sort of AviSynth error. The strange resolution is due to it being an error message instead of the actual video. Open one of the AVS files in a media player and you can see what the error is.
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wensteph
Junior Member
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2. August 2004 @ 06:48 |
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Thanks all. I ran back through the guide and I had neglected to check the setup box to add the dll to the AVS file.
Using this forum has been an enjoyable journey. I started using X Copy Express, but lost the ripping function when I did a clean install on a larger hard drive. After coming here I've regained full functionality on Express and discovered wonderful programs such as Decrypter, Shrink, DVD2One and now Rebuilder and CCE Basic. More importantly my knowledge of backing up a DVD has expanded a thousand fold. Thanks are in order for much more than just helping me with this problem.
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TenChars2
Newbie
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5. August 2004 @ 09:15 |
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New to Rebuilder? Yes, it has the best looking output out there when used with CCE for the compression routines. I use DVD Shrink to pull the stuff out and get just the movie and extras that I want and then use Rebuilder (v.56) to compress it. Pixelation is gone and it doesn't jitter on high compression movies like I get in Shrink.
Problems? I had some. You need to send script commands from rebuilder to CCE SP trial. The trial version of CCE says, "not in this version", or something like that if you try it. The fix is to use EclCCE as an intermediate program. You need to tell Rebuilder in the options to link to EclCCE.exe >not< to CCE.exe. After I did that, it worked like a charm. Then I set it to 5 pass (it's gorgeous but a little slow, but then add the time it actually takes shrink to do one and it's not that big of a difference). I prefer the quality, not the speed. Then I set it to one click and do it while I sleep at night. I don't care about speed when I'm asleep... If you're really into it, you can batch a bunch together, but I keep my hard drive full, so that's not an option ;-)
Read the guide at http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvdrb.htm
It worked fine for me other than I skipped over the part that said I should set my CCE program location in the options to EclCCE.exe instead of CCE.exe
I'm doing a 64% reduction now using 6 pass. It did it while I slept and looks great. Dont' try this with a transcoder type program. They just remove stuff rather than reimage the frames. CCE totally kicks on high compression but it takes time to do all the passes. I started at one pass and even that looked good. That is my preferred method when I want speed and quality together.
Good luck!
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Senior Member
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5. August 2004 @ 11:42 |
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@ TenChars2 or anyone....
I've done about 20 backups now with DVD-RB/CCE (Basic) in 2 pass mode. I had a rough start, but with that behind me, I'm wanting to try new things now. I'm wondering about a couple of things?
1. How much would be gained by going from 2 pass to 5 pass, or more. I don't have a large screen now, but I suspect I will sometime in the future. I would like to know that what I am doing now will also look good then, and
2. I've also heard about doing more than one job at a time. Are these set up to run concurrently, or is there a way to stack them to run consecutively? Thanks.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. August 2004 @ 11:43
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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5. August 2004 @ 13:08 |
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The benefits of more passes are debatable. Some will tell you that on high compression it makes a difference. Some believe that it always makes a difference, and some think it never does. Since I've never seen actual comparisons, and certainly never done them myself, take this with a grain or 2 of salt.
In general, the difference with more passes is that CCE has more chances to correct any problems with the way the bits are distributed. The other side to this argument is that because of the great job CCE does on the initial (VAF file) pass, any more than 1 additional pass may not help anyway. The best description I've seen (and keep in mind I can't verify that this is true) is that the VAF pass gives you 99% of the quality CCE could conceivably give you, the second pass 99.9%, the third 99.99%, etc,... If this is indeed true, I don't see enough benefit in any more than 1 pass after the VAF pass to worry about it.
The other thing you introduce with DVD-RB is that unlike conventional CCE methods, where an entire movie is encoded as one file, the bits are only being distributed across a small section of the total video. Sometimes this is as little as 100 frames or less. The way I see it, the fewer frames are being encoded, the less benefit there is, even on a theoretical level, to additional passes. Personally I don't think there should be any differences between the 2 passes that Basic does and using SP to do 5 passes, but that's based on reasoning and not testing since I haven't had a copy of SP to use since before DVD-RB was available.
On the batch processing, there are 2 different ways I know of to do it. You can either use DVD-RB's batch mode, which I'm not familiar with because I've never used it, or you could do what I do and use RBFarm to run a batch of jobs on multiple PCs. In either case, the jobs have to be run consecutively since you can't have more than one instance of CCE at a time.
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TenChars2
Newbie
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5. August 2004 @ 18:31 |
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Ya, consecutively is how it works. I used divx compression to make some avi's and I was not happy when I smoothed it out and the detail tended to get lost in the compression. It looked good but I just couldn't see that sharp edge. I would say, every person that looks at it wants a little bit something different. I first switched when I backed up a Monte Walsh or some other cowboy movie. It started with a horse going across a prairie and dvdshrink just wasted that picture, it was so bad. I used one pass cce and it looked beautiful. So, until you find you're unhappy with a transcoder like dvdshrink, I'd be happy with the speed you can backup and stick with it. Personally, I set it to convert while I'm asleep and then burn it in 15 minutes to 4x media in the morning. I'm happy with 2 pass minimum. DVDRebuilder uses one of the passes to create the file and the second pass goes through it to compress it, so as I see it, you set it to one more than the number of passes you want for compression. I agree, 6 passes is total overkill but whatever I can get in about 7 hours of sleep, I shoot for. Usually a setting of 5 gets it done in 6 hours for a 5.5 gig image I'm compressing down. I can't tell the difference from my original (well, not unless I know what to look for). I think learning about how to do it was what I enjoyed the most. What's next after this? I have a dual-layer burner but I can't find dual-layer media...
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