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The OFFICIAL best media thread (noobs MUST look in 1st page, 1st post before posting redundant posts!!)
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waleedwc
Senior Member
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30. October 2005 @ 07:44 |
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TDK DVD-R are in the first class range so i went ahead and bought them, but they are not working, i am new to backing up DVD games and have tried to copy GT3 to JVC, Tuff Disk, and TDK DVDs. But they dont work, i have got one of those chipped games that have a silver surface and that works, and so do my CD-R backups. So i am guessing that it has something to do with the DVDs. I am burning to TDK dvds at 1X using the built DVD-RW in my Sony Vaio Laptop, and tried on a desktop pc also, with no luck. Does anyone have any ideas on what i should do. I have a V12 PS2, with Infinity Chip. My ps2 just goes to the read screen when i insert the game i have copied in.
Anyone know what i should do, are TDK reliable with the v12 PS2?
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. October 2005 @ 12:18 |
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grantman
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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30. October 2005 @ 15:07 |
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you have to be careful though, i bought 25 tyg02 dvd-rs on ebay, and they were fakes, my effing ps2 wouldent even read them.
Even though you probably dont think so, i have started using fujifilm dvd-rs and they are amazing. I backed up GTA:SA and it worked flawlessly, and im not lying.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. October 2005 @ 17:51 |
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Quote:
you have to be careful though, i bought 25 tyg02 dvd-rs on ebay, and they were fakes, my effing ps2 wouldent even read them.
No offense, but who ever told you to buy Taiyo Yuden on ebay must be on dope.
You can easily get genuine Yuden media from supermediastore.com, meritline.com and rima.com, and if you want to get them locally then just make sure to grab the Fuji & Sony 8X DVD+R (Made In Japan) - that's authentic Taiyo Yuden media right there.
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. October 2005 @ 18:08 |
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Agrees. It seems like most things you get off ebay are ripoffs or semi functional at best. This goes for premodded consoles, DVD-R's, CD-R's, PS2's, Swap Magic, games, etc.
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waleedwc
Senior Member
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31. October 2005 @ 05:54 |
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"Tokijin" i tried to burn at 4X but my backup copy still isnt working in my PS2, I also tried on a datawrite DVD, but it made no difference. PLEASE HELP SOMEONE
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. October 2005 @ 07:43 |
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Ditch the Datawrite. Try Taiyo Yuden, Verbatim, Ritek, Maxell, TDK, Sony, or Phillips DVD-R's. I should've specified before, I just type this so much somethimes, I get tired of spelling it out. Any of those brands should work fine with DVD Decrypter. Some burners are more compatible with certain brands than others. You've only tried one good brand, so don't panic yet. Make sure you use DVD-R's and not DVD-RW's.
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waleedwc
Senior Member
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31. October 2005 @ 07:46 |
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Ok Tokijin, thanks for the info, i will try one of the ones you have mentioned apart from TDK of course because i have already tried them. I feel a bit revived from the idea of never being able to play backups. ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. October 2005 @ 09:08 |
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Yeah you'll get it. I have a PS2 being modded as we speak, and I just got a DVD burner, so I'm kinda new to the DVD burning deal myself. I was paranoid my first attempt would fail, but I used DVD Decrypter, burned at 4x on Maxell 8x DVD-R's, simple as that. I won't know for sure it was successful until I get my PS2 back, but I have little doubt it was. Good Luck.
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LiquidusX
Senior Member
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31. October 2005 @ 15:12 |
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please read that link carefully. the list at the top of the page is for media codes only. you got tdk brand there's a list at the bottom showing what media code tdk uses. they use a lot
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (Conroe) @ 3.1ghz
OCZ 2x1024MB PC6400 Ram
eVGA 8800gtx
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waleedwc
Senior Member
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1. November 2005 @ 07:37 |
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Yes LiquidusX, i checked the codes and the DVD-R i have are 100% genuine, i am going to try VERBATIM soon.
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LiquidusX
Senior Member
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1. November 2005 @ 20:24 |
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what's the media code?
screw verbatim get taiyo yuden
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (Conroe) @ 3.1ghz
OCZ 2x1024MB PC6400 Ram
eVGA 8800gtx
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waleedwc
Senior Member
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1. November 2005 @ 21:57 |
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the code is TTG02, for my TDK DVD-R not RW.
I am in the UK, and everywhere i have check i cant find TAIYO TUDEN.
Can some tell me what the DVD's look like, maybe i should go computer fair.
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. November 2005 @ 23:30 |
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Quote:
I am in the UK, and everywhere i have check i cant find TAIYO TUDEN.
Can some tell me what the DVD's look like, maybe i should go computer fair
i am also from the uk,
go here for your disks
you dont need to spend shit loads of money on ty's
check out the verbatims in the dvd-r non-printables section the ones with the TY02 dye id code
they are about 26p each when bought in 25's
www.svpcommunications.com
these ones
{DV 3309} Verbatim (Taiyo Yuden) 8x DVD-R in Spindle Tubs of 25
Verbatim have entrusted the manufacture of the disc to the world renowned Taiyo Yuden factory.
ADVDInfo: TYG02
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. November 2005 @ 23:31
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cool18
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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2. November 2005 @ 20:29 |
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I love DBZ
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. November 2005 @ 20:33 |
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Yeah DBZ is cool. Not much plot, but I don't compare with real anime. The fighting is kick ass.
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pretense
Member
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3. November 2005 @ 02:15 |
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What I really love is how people make these half-assed assumptions and then pretend they know everything there is about media and burning. The real issue is pretty darn complex and not as straight-forward as everyone paints it. Yes, Taiyo Yuden media is *generally* great -- first-class and highly recommended for a reason. But does that mean you definitely need it? Or that you're guaranteed to get great results with it? Absolutely not.
I'm not much of a DVD burning expert, but even I know that DVD burning, especially, is not so clean-cut. What should be most obvious is that DVD writing is a lot more sensitive to variables than CD burning ever was: Even though the disc size has not changed, DVDs hold 6-7 times more data than CDs, and consequently, the pits that the DVD lasers have to burn are many times smaller. What this translates into overall is a lot of overall sensitivity and variability which didn't exist before in burning: Firmware, DVDR dye, reflectivity, set-top laser strengths, scratches, and even dust (having lint on the bottom of an unburned DVDR will cause blotches and physical damage to the dye when burnt) play a far greater role than before.
This is why quality DVD media grabs the spotlight nowadays. Sure, good CDs were useful: but not nearly as much as a good burner. I was lucky enough to have a Plextor as my first (and last) dedicated CD burner, and it didn't matter what I threw in it: Khypermedia, CMC Magnetics, "Great Quality"-branded CDs, they all came out and played wonderfully (with no variance in quality or performance, I'd like to point out), even years afterwards. But my friend's awful Smart & Friendly (which promptly went out of business) burner churned out coasters even if you fed it Verbatims and TDKs.
Both a good burner and good media are important these days -- but it's tough to tell exactly which media is "good" because the results will invariably vary with each setup. I've seen people post up horrible burns with TYG02 (Taiyo Yuden) media, while others have posted near-perfect burns exceeding even pressed DVDs. Why the varying results? Because different burners utilize different lasers and different write strategies. A disc which works great on one burner may become a coaster on the next. Even among burners of the same type, differing firmware versions can cause some serious discrepancies in results. And, inevitably, factors like RAM, hard drive speed (if your hard drive can't keep up with streaming data fast enough, the buffer will run out and you may see some sketchy burns), and even applications (certain software like Intel Application Accelerator may cause conflicts) all introduce additional layers of uncertainty.
So exactly how do you tell if a particular brand of media (identified by its media code) works well with your setup? And exactly what is a quality burn?
Pretty much the only definite way to do this is by trial-and-error: Testing a particular brand using different burn speeds and measuring the resulting quality of the burn. Thankfully, there are some excellent tools already in circulation among the DVD movie burning crowd which give you concrete figures for comparison: kprobe, dvdinfopro, Plextools, and Nero CDspeed are all well-known in this regard. Personally, I prefer to use Nero CDSpeed most of the time, which can be found at http://www.cdspeed2000.com . Simply plop the disc you want into the DVD burner (people recommend using a DVD burner, and not just a DVD-ROM) and start scanning away.
Two tests stand out the most: The Benchmark, or disc transfer speed test, and the Disc Quality Test (which should be scanned at 4-5x). The Benchmark is perhaps the most important of all, since it determines just how fast data can read from your burned disc -- it also takes into account physical defects like scratches and marks. You should generally have a pretty smooth curve with few drops and valleys for a good burn. A few dips here and there don't really matter too much for PS2 purposes, though, since the PS2 is limited to a 4x DVD-ROM, which is relatively low speed.
The Disc Quality Test gives you a definite ballpark figure on just how good (or bad) your actual burn is, data-wise. Parity Inner Errors, or PI Errors for short, should have a maximum of less than 280 according to accepted standards for settop boxes. Similarly, Parity Inner Failures, or PI Failures, should have a max less than 32 if you scan at ECC 8 (or less than 4 if you scan at ECC 1. Whether you scan at ECC8 or ECC1 depends on the drive you use; for instance, NEC drives scan at ECC8.). Anything much higher or lower means your burn is suspect and may not read properly in a player.
Why does this happen? Well, PI errors and PIFs are real errors in the burn: PI Errors are corrected by the first level of error correcting in DVD players or drives, and PIFs by the second level. Go too high, and the drive in question may not be able to read the disc properly (though another drive with higher levels of error correcting might). That said, it is impossible to write a DVD without some level of errors. The idea is to simply write a good DVD that is well within error correcting specifications, so that everything works.
Here's some real-life scenarios (presented by yours truly) regarding how these figures apply to PS2 games. Depending on which version of PS2 you have (and how its laser has aged over the years), your PS2 may be more or less forgiving of PI/PIFs.
The marginal backup
For instance, I have a backup of Urban Reign which has an ugly PI Error range of 600 to a max of 2006 (averaging at 645.10), and PI Failures Avg. 2.35, Max 70. Obviously, both the PI Error Max and PIF Max are well above suggested tolerances. The Quality score, which is based on PI Failures only (and thus not entirely accurate), is a pretty bad 17. Even so, the vast majority of the game loads and plays great -- there just tends to be some extended loading between stages, and some unnecessary noise with the PS2 laser. The game itself plays fine once it's loaded. Still, the figures (and the horrible Benchmark disc transfer speed curve) suggests that I should reburn the backup when possible to reduce stress on the PS2, even if the game seems okay.
The deathly ill backup
This backup of SOCOM 3 gasps along during the main screen, since the menu music keeps skipping. Actual gameplay seems fluid enough, but the skipping alone suggests something is seriously wrong with the backup. And there is: PI Error Average 805.80, Max 3011; PIF Average 6.66, Max 113. Bad stuff. Quality score? 0. And the Benchmark curve is terrible. Reburn, stat!
The average, good backup
A random working game on media I trusted. PI Errors Average 20.33, Maximum 41. PI Failures Average 0.11, Maximum 6. Quality score 97, nice benchmark curve. Life is good.
So what's the best media and speed to burn at?
That's entirely up to you and your setup (and your firmware revision). Generally speaking, any of the top 2 tier media listed in Digital Media FAQ page at the very top of this thread should serve you well -- though it's not unheard of to hear people getting horrible results even with Verbatims, TDKs, and yes, Taiyo Yudens, because of their setups. Personally, I tend to use Ridatas, which are usually cheap, and with my 4x and 8x media (RICOHJPNR01, RIDATA G05, etc.), I've found 4x to give great results -- better than the lower 2.4x, in fact. But with a recent stock of Ridata R04 16x DVD+Rs, I've found 8x to give me the best results with my NEC 3520AW 3.06. These R04s seem to be somewhat fussier than the other Ridatas I've had experience with, as 8x seems to be the only speed for me to give very good results. So brand name alone isn't enough to tell you performance; performance could vary depending on the specific line of DVDs, or media code. A general rule of thumb is to go with whatever works for you: It doesn't have to be Taiyo Yuden (though those are usually a great choice), but can even be Memorexes (I've never had any problems with them myself) if they consistently provide you with excellent results.
Once you've got your DVDs, make sure you flash your DVD drive to the most recent firmware revision following the manufacturer's instructions, then make some burns at different speeds and test them on CDSpeed (or some other software of your choice). Then stick with whatever burning speed gives you the best results. Burning quality DVDs will guarantee you a smooth gaming experience and perhaps prolong the life of your PS2 laser, to boot! ;)
Hopefully that cleared up more than it confused =p Here's a nice link on Nero CDSpeed analysis with more details (and actual pics!): http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=96285
In general, cdfreaks, cdrinfo, and cdrlabs all offer more quality information on DVD burning, media, and drives than you may want to know. They seem tailored mainly to movie burns, but the same logic applies to any DVD burn, movie, game, data, or otherwise.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. November 2005 @ 02:29
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. November 2005 @ 10:53 |
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And what half assed assumptions are you referring to? I didn't see anybody claiming to be the end all, be all, guru of DVD burning.
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dew1989
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. November 2005 @ 05:43 |
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How are benq disks?
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LiquidusX
Senior Member
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4. November 2005 @ 10:18 |
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if you would've taken 5 minutes to read the link in first post of this thread you would've seen that the benq media uses 2 media ids. daxon (4th class, crap) and fujifilm (2nd class, good) so it depends on which one ya got.
what's the media id on yours?
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (Conroe) @ 3.1ghz
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apollon1
Junior Member
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5. November 2005 @ 07:10 |
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what about verbatim ???
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LiquidusX
Senior Member
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5. November 2005 @ 10:39 |
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look in first post
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (Conroe) @ 3.1ghz
OCZ 2x1024MB PC6400 Ram
eVGA 8800gtx
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hcanni819
Newbie
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5. November 2005 @ 10:49 |
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Surprised noone has mentioned Datasafe DVD-Rs, I find them to be perfect for me and my PS2!
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LiquidusX
Senior Member
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5. November 2005 @ 15:14 |
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read that link
Datawrite = PRINCO, PRODISC, AN31, RITEKG03
ya prolly got the ritekg03 which are rare in datawrite
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (Conroe) @ 3.1ghz
OCZ 2x1024MB PC6400 Ram
eVGA 8800gtx
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GodzD
Member
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6. November 2005 @ 20:16 |
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Sry if what im about to ask was mentioned because im in a hurry.But how are Verbatim,TDK,Fuji,and Maxell(all +R) when it comes to burning ps2 game back ups?
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