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P2P users are nothing but common criminals!!!
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Piledrive
Newbie
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2. May 2003 @ 18:23 |
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Obviously none of you on here that support P2P are musicians. Why is it ok for the industries to protect movies rights but not musicians rights? If I write a song and I pour my heart and soul into it what gives you the God Damn right to rip it off for free? Did you stay up until 3 in the morning trying to come up with the melody or the perfect backbeat? Hell no you didn't? Why do you think you should be able to download music for free? Becuause you have a F***ing internet connection? So now this gives you a license to rip off all the musicians that make their living by writing music so you can enjoy it?!
No one appreciates hard work anymore and everyone wants shit now and free. Wake up people anything worth having is worth working for and paying for. If the artists wants you to have his/her music then he/she will provide it on their website for you to download. Until then STOP STEALING!!!!! Everyone one of you is no different then the common criminal that steals from the local liqour store. You guys are just to chicken shit to do it in person so you hide behind your computers.
You are pathetic and make me sick!!!!!!
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
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Staff Member
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3. May 2003 @ 20:16 |
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If someone stoloe a tv from someones house, it is gone completely, if someone steald a cd/dvd froma store that is gon too but if they download, it's still there isnt it!! You see thats where you find out if artists prefer money or fans! Look at the artists who supported napster in the early p2p days, hell they got a huge fan base out of it and huge respect. Look at bands who didnt, mainly metallica, who are now hated because they obviously are filthy rich with ppl with desire for more money so a 10 year old kid downloads one song and they want his connection taken away from him!! lol
I buy albums because you cant beat an original and i respect the work that goes into them, not just the music but the artwork and multimedia contents too! However, just run with p2p cause it wont stop, it's here for good now and when one goes down a few more will pop up. I downloaded a few songs from the eminem show about a week before it came out and because of those songs, i bought it the day it came out, and so did a lot of people and look how successful the first week of sales were! Like I said, you just gotta run with it!!
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Xhadow
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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17. May 2003 @ 21:57 |
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Ok lets just do the breakdown of the $20 CD you say that people should chuck out for a CD (which I might add will normally only have a few songs that you would want to listen to anyway)
BTW all of my prices are estimates and are in no way an example of how artist truly get screwed by record companies
7 - off the top goes to the record label just for GP
5 - Advertisment/video production (since videos are nothing but ads anyway)
5 - Studio time
2 - Producers
2 - Bussiness actually selling the CD
.50 - To all the various people that I left out above
.50 - Lawyers should probably be more but I figure that they only need one for every 5-10 groups so that should even it out.
$0.00 to -$2.00- the artist who actually is who we are paying to listen to. (Don't belive me check the Source's interview with DMX, where DMX said that he made a few hundred million dollars for Def Jam and all he had to show for it was a 2 million dollar loan)
I'm not saying that downloading music from P2P is right but I'm saying that most people (knowingly or unknowingly) want to protect myself before buying into an already corrupt bussiness. (for evidence of the corruption do a google search for RIAA and "CD prices" evendually you will find where the RIAA paid a class action lawsuit for Price gouging across the board... no CD was expemt from this).
I dont claim to be an expert I am just a concerned music lover that doesn't want to see everything go down the drain over some greedy people on both sides of this debate.
I pay for music I like and used to by 2 or 3 copies of CD's due to scraches or worse. Now I backup my CD's to my hard drive so that I don't have to replace my CD's every few years. Plus I use to allway dub a copy of a frieds tape YEARS before P2P and still eventually bought the tape because the original is still worth holding.
Well I will stop venting and let someone else speak on this matter.
X
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Killbot
Newbie
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18. May 2003 @ 10:52 |
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Music is built from the music that preceded it. You and your elk have no problem from using the musical heritage, copyrighted or not, that came before you. When was the last time you paid a musician (or his/her heirs) for their influence, which is a tantamount to borrowing? That is what I thought ? not lately. Well, ?borrowing? a previous musicians style is just fine, but my friend ?borrowing? some of my music is some how wrong?
Dude- face up to it, you are a First Class ? Grade A ? Hypocrite!
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18. May 2003 @ 21:42 |
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Any true artist is nothing more than a person with something to say. how they express that thought is up to them. painters dont paint pictures with dollar signs in mind, they paint to express themselves. just as musicians express themselves in music. If you main concern is that of what you next late night of writing will buy you, perhaps you are not an artist at all, but someone with a dream of getting rich on a top 40 one hit wonder. well sir, to you I say, to damn bad. Any true artist would be thrilled at the fact that not only the guy with $20 to blow on a cd gets to hear the music, but so does the kid who's only spare $20 goes to his AOL connection every month. Any true artist would love the fact that not only did he hit 100,000 copies in record sales, but 200 million people all over the world are now listening to the music in spite of the inflated prices of cd's that most people simply cant afford to run out and buy all the time. If you would have come here saying "hey look at me, i'm an artist and i have a cd out, but go download it and check it out." you would have probably generated more sales just from this site, than in your whole musical career. good luck
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore) |
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19. May 2003 @ 18:44 |
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I completely agree darthnip, and i think i already said it before but if i didnt ill say it now, - its a question put forward to all musicians/artists, fans or money?
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Piledrive
Newbie
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19. May 2003 @ 19:11 |
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It's not a matter of fans or money. It's a matter of who owns the songs and who has the right to give them away. That is what you people are missing here. I own my songs I wrote them I have the final say on what I want to do with them. The bottom line is this...He who owns them has the right to do with them as they please. No one else has the priveledge. Everyone keeps bringing up the past saying "Well I used to make duplicates for my friends of people's tapes on cassettes". Good for you but just because you did that does not make it legal. It is stealing plain and simple. Wether it is a car, a software program, a song or intellectual property the bottom line is it is stealing.
The money that the artist is losing for every person that downloads his song for free, if that was in actual physical property such as a car that person that stole it would get prison time for a Felony. But just because you can not see it or hold it in your hand does not make it any less valuable.
Apple Computers are the only ones that have stepped up to the plate and said "look this is wrong but it won't go away so let's do something about it" So now all of you thieves out there have a solution. Buy the songs you want so in 25 years there will still be musicians out there playing and recording music that you can drive down the road and listen to.
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. May 2003 @ 19:12
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19. May 2003 @ 19:37 |
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Well its obvious you prefer money, you're not an artist you are a business man!! I play in a band and we really couldnt give a damn about money, we'd prefer people hear the music! Also, you compare it to stealing a car, ok except you cant copy a car or cars cant be traded through p2p now can they?? there is a difference there. p2p sharing networks are legal so they will likely be around for a long time!! What is funny though was the massive decrease in sales after the fall of napster, the RIAA are digging their own grave and they dont realise it! I buy my cd's so dont dare call me a common criminal and lets not forget, not all p2p users share music illegally do they??
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Piledrive
Newbie
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19. May 2003 @ 19:42 |
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First off I have been playing music for 22 years. I am a TRUE artist. I don't care about the money. I care about making music that I am happy with. So now I am not a "True" artist because I want to make a living at something I love? Get off your fucking soapbox and stop trying to be such an elitist. Music is about expression pure and simple. Why shouldn't I make money off of something that I labor over night after night? Can you give me one good reason why I should not want to protect myself? You continue to give your music away and I'll see you at MacDonalds. And yes I will take fries with that!!!!
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. May 2003 @ 19:43
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Moderator
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19. May 2003 @ 20:56 |
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dude, in 25 years, if all the musicians like you out there disappear, so freakin what. the true artists will always be making music, and those are the ones i listen too. you say you dont care about money, but at the same time you are whining about being ripped off. I work my ass off 40 hours a week at one job, and 25 a week at another, 65 hours a week pal!!, can you say that? but you know what, i spent probably 4 hours a day in these forums helping people and i dont make a dime for it. i do it because i can help people and give them insight to things they didn't know before, and express my opinion openly. you know, kinda like music. but my music is not for profit. I've played guitar for over 25 years, i've i had a few very good bands, and we did get paid alot, but even doing shows where there was no money involved, we never played less than the best we could do. because to us, and me, and any other TRUE artist just wants to be heard and felt, and move people. and when you really think about it, if you were good enough to make it a career, then you'd have enough money and success to not give a rats ass whether people downloaded you music or not. but since your pissed about it, i'm assuming that you are a struggling artist and quite frankly, that aint the stuff people are downloading anyway, so i seriously dont you are being effected anyway. please dont take this as a personal assualt on you, i dont know you, and you could be very talented and going places, but based on your attitude here, it does cast a certain persona.
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Piledrive
Newbie
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19. May 2003 @ 21:11 |
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You're right you don't know me from Adam. And that's the way I prefer it. For all you know I could be a chart topping succes or just a garage band artists struggling. I make my living playing music and I don't want that taken away from me by some asshole that is too cheap to purchase music. I'm sorry you have to work 65 hours a week and I'm glad I don't have to. That is why I want to protect myself even more. I do want to "be heard and felt" but why is it that just because I want to make money at it too I'm not an artist? A true artists would understand where I am coming from. Are you trying to tell me that all the "pre-internet" groups out there, the AC/DC's the Aerosmith's the Led Zeppelins, The Queens, The Rolling Stones' aren't true artists because they make money? Dude you are more full of yourself then I thought. You better make it biggie sized this is going to take awhile.
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
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19. May 2003 @ 21:43 |
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i'm not "full of myself" at all, i just dont think that AC/DC's the Aerosmith's the Led Zeppelins, The Queens, The Rolling Stones gave a damn if we bought there tape and made a copy for a friend because that just makes their fan base stronger. Dont forget, you came to this forum preaching your views to people that feel the exact opposite of you, and still want their favorite artists to get paid for what they do. in here you are kinda like a hari krishna at the airport, in here, no one wants to here it. just talking about this, i'm going to go and download 5 full cd's right now, and listen to every song. of course these will be deleted within 24 hours because i do not support piracy. but out of the 5, there will most likely be 2-3 that i might like, then i'll probably go by the retail cd's tomorrow, because good artists deserve financial support. gimme a link to some of your music, i'll download it and if i like it, i'll order a cd from you, if it sucks, then god bless the internet for saving me 15 bucks!
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Piledrive
Newbie
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19. May 2003 @ 22:32 |
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If you are truly going to delete the songs after you have decided which one you like I have no problem with that especially if you are going to go out and buy cd's of the ones you liked. My problems is with the people that have 3,000 songs on their hard drive and hardly no cd's at all. I too don't want to waste my money on filler material that half of these "muscians" put out. At least we agree on one thing. This is going nowhere though. You have your opinion and I have mine. That's what makes free speech so wonderful. All I ask is that people think about who they are truly hurting before they download and keep songs. Everyone says "Fuck the record company's" but they forget that there are artists that make the music for the record companies to begin with.
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
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Staff Member
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20. May 2003 @ 16:55 |
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Then what was your reply post to me about then?? I download music and if i like it i buy it if i dont i delete it simple as that, and trust me pal i wont be working at mcdonalds!! Why do people say fuck the record companies?? simple, when napster fell people were no longer able sample music like they could before they bought it, so cd sales dropped and so did virtually any respect for the RIAA or Metallica or Dre or any artist who went against it! Thats where the hate started and now its revenge time for the people who loved napster. Like i said before i dont support piracy, i buy my cd's and since i got the net at home i've been buying more cd's than ever!! So my question is why didnt the record companys just go with it?? tracks from the eminem show appeared on kazaa about a week before its release and look how many it sold in its first week of sales!! thats just one example!! they attacked napster and brought it down instead of running with it!! then Madonna thinks she is funny when people try to get a sample of her new album to come and all it says is "what the fuck do you think you are doing?" and her website gets hacked and links to download her entire album are placed right on madonna.com! do i think thats right? of course not but, could she have avoided it by simply not putting those fake tracks on kazaa? Yes she could have. Anyway, i'm just going on and on here so its time to finish lol!!
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Moderator
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20. May 2003 @ 17:30 |
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well said Dela, (fer a youngster ;p)
do you even remember albums? (j/k, couldn't resist)
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore)
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Staff Member
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20. May 2003 @ 17:33 |
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ah funny man lol! you said youngster and your damn right!! The RIAA are fighting with 85% kids! thats whats funny!
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Moderator
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20. May 2003 @ 18:22 |
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yeah, and smart ones at that! i know you've pondered the "war" if they start it, i give it about a week. thats like 1 city taking on the rest of the country, aint gonna happen.
http://www.Lonero.net - friend of the forums, great guitar player
#afterdawn (well i have no idea where it is anymore)
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Staff Member
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21. May 2003 @ 06:33 |
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If it happens the RIAA wont win! There are too many p2p users! Even those who dont download albums and keep them (like me) will be pretty pissed if the riaa is attacking their p2p network and disrupting their usage of it so they are fight with everyone, not just the music downloaders!!
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bgmacaw
Newbie
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24. May 2003 @ 08:29 |
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It's interesting that you mention the "local liquor store" since the RIAA/DMCA/P2P thing makes me think of Prohibition. Alcoholic beverages were illegal then but huge numbers of people broke this law on a regular basis. Eventually, laws, and in that case, a constitutional ammendment, were changed to accommodate reality and to avoid making ordinary citizens criminals and prevent criminal enterprises, like Al Capone's, from springing up.
In the case of file sharing, I predict that some version of it will eventually be made legal. Hopefully it won't take a debacle like Prohibition to do so. I'd also hope that any solution would properly compensate musicians and studios although I can't say the same about the RIAA monopolistic middleman labels who screw over consumers and musicians alike.
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Staff Member
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25. May 2003 @ 06:18 |
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Well strictly speaking, p2p is legal!
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theos
Junior Member
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25. May 2003 @ 06:39 |
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Piledrive; are you serious? in your last post you said "think about the people you are truly hurting" last I looked, these "artists" are millionaires!#!*!&! .
P2P's are legal, sure there are some who abuse it, like everything else in this world, but no real money is being lost. I have not heard of even one "artist" who has lost his job, or filed bankruptsy as a result of P2P use. Were being led to believe, that all those "poor" artist are suffering becasue of us EVIL downloading thives. LOL.
Theos,
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theos
Junior Member
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25. May 2003 @ 06:46 |
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Just a quick addon to my last post.
If piledrive really that his issue is not with money, rather it's with his labor. If this was true he would not have posted here at all.
Unless a p2p user was next door to his home making massive noise and stopping him from working when he was staying up until 3 in the morning.
His complaint is with the almighty buck.
theos
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Staff Member
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26. May 2003 @ 15:20 |
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I think we should just agree to disagree cause this is one of them arguments that would just go on and on and on and on!!
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ABMone
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. May 2003 @ 19:34 |
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I don't think it hurts the actual musicians after all most musicians get a contract and an up-front dollar amount. Then when the cd ge made andsales start rolling in then that money goes to the record label am i right?
PS how do you get the little words on the bottom of your message?
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Xhadow
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. May 2003 @ 23:29 |
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The Artist are being hurt by this but not in the pocket. Their reputation is being hurt. Most Artist fans are people that use P2P. Fans have been pissed for years about how the quality of Albums have been going to shit and the price for them has been steadly going up. Has anyone wondered ehy the RIAA just outright setteled their case on price gouging. The RIAA most likely would have came under some anti-trust heat if they hadn't. Look recording labels have most artist make a bunch of songs well before any abulm is put out then they decide what songs to release and when. Hell look at 2 Pac who till this day still has new material comming out and he has been dead since for about 7 years now. For the Record Label its all a money thing. Average your crap with your hits... 8 or nine tracks of crap for every 3 or 4 hits. That way instead of making albums you can listen to from start to finish you pay your 19.99 then listen to the few songs you do like 6 months to a year later another 19.99 CD comes out with 3 or 4 more good songs on it. Or in a move that some record labels enjoy doing make a half decent CD, realize that sales are crap or you go platnium then release another CD with one or two bonus tracks then A.) sell it overseas making it an import special (which gouges hardcore fans because you pay 10 to 30 dollars more than you would for one in the states) or B.) resell the CD in the same packaging (or slightly change the color of the packaging) to makimize your sales potential. I mean hell I aint too mad at them because if you have a system that works stick with it. But the RIAA (or an organization similar to it) disaproved of radio at first too but we see how far that went. If they were smart they would have embraced Napster at the start and they would have been able to make this another viable conduit for getting music out (lower cost due to less advertising and physical production cost) but now they have set themselves up as the money hungry opressor and look at history every money hungry opressor sooner or later lost their power and the people prevailed... its not a matter of if but of when.
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