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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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27. August 2011 @ 23:09 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Interesting read!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease
According to wiki, you could do better than ceramique. Though more expensive ;) Like my diamond compound. Though I still wonder just how much better it is. I'm probably gonna end up using the rest on my next board. And I'm gonna be highly careful about applying now. I think I've been adding too much :S
You don't want to use metal based pastes for electronics, can you say SHORT!
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. August 2011 @ 23:14 |
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Not if you're careful :p I'm currently using diamond though. Not sure of it's electrical conductivity though. When I first experimented with it, I noted a 1 - 3C temperature drop. But perhaps I used it more sparingly than the other stuff I've used. The experts say it's better, so I believe them ;)
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Senior Member
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27. August 2011 @ 23:35 |
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You can use Diamond but you shouldn't use metalic, metal conducts diamond does not. In fact they use metalic pens to fix traces on boards.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. August 2011 @ 23:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. August 2011 @ 00:09 |
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I've heard of those.
Interesting. I think the lockup has tried to occur, but it seems it can't, while the drive in question is soo busy transferring. If reformatting does not work, I'll probably disconnect the drive indefinitely, and decide after a time, if the drive needs replacement.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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28. August 2011 @ 00:36 |
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if its not the hdd, me = n00b :(
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28. August 2011 @ 00:38 |
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Yes well, sometimes bugs can point in more than one direction. This one is weird to say the least. I'm close, I can feel it LOL!
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Senior Member
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28. August 2011 @ 02:28 |
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Originally posted by shaffaaf:
if its not the hdd, me = n00b :(
I think you might be a NOOB shaffaaf but that is OK we understand. :D
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. August 2011 @ 03:26 |
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The lockup just occurred during format. Either a cable is wigging, or the control board on the drive, or god knows what...
Or it isn't that drive, and it was simply coincidence that the bug never occurred during disconnect... :(
It's starting to make me nuts LOL!
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28. August 2011 @ 04:27 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Interesting read!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_grease
According to wiki, you could do better than ceramique. Though more expensive ;) Like my diamond compound. Though I still wonder just how much better it is. I'm probably gonna end up using the rest on my next board. And I'm gonna be highly careful about applying now. I think I've been adding too much :S
Oman7,
The advantage to using Ceramique over the Diamond stuff, is that there are so many individual parts that need the TIM to be applied to and that the Ceramique, while it doesn't cure in the sense that Arctic Silver does, it does cure and creates a good bond between heatsink and VRMs. By the time it's cured, it will have just the right thinness to remove maximum heat, and be bonded in place. I don't think that you could do that kind of meticulous work with something as hard to work with as the Diamond TIM. That's why it dropped my motherboard temp 13C. The other drawback to the diamond is it voids your warranty! Not in words, but in the fact that all the print disappears from the CPU from vibration and abrasion from the ultra hard diamond dust. No Print, No Warranty!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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28. August 2011 @ 04:32 |
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That hadn't occurred to me. I am aware of diamonds super hard structure(as well as an abrasive). It never occurred to me that vibration could ware away the vital information! Not too worried though. My 965 will likely remain with me a while anyway. I'll likely try ceramique one day. I love getting my hands dirty ;) Unfortunately, money is always the issue. Drat!
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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28. August 2011 @ 06:49 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
That hadn't occurred to me. I am aware of diamonds super hard structure(as well as an abrasive). It never occurred to me that vibration could ware away the vital information! Not too worried though. My 965 will likely remain with me a while anyway. I'll likely try ceramique one day. I love getting my hands dirty ;) Unfortunately, money is always the issue. Drat!
Oman7,
Do not, I repeat, "DO NOT" use in AMDs or that type of socket. You "Will" pull the CPU out of the socket with the socket lock on, if you have to remove the cooler. You can use it on things like LGA775 and that type of mechanism. I ripped a bunch of pins out of my
first Athlon 7750 dual core that way. AMD was really nice about it and gave me another one, Thank You AMD! Do a little stress testing before you remove the CPU cooler. Shut it sown and release the lock lever. While applying a small amount of down-force, rotate gently back and forth, and it usually comes free pretty easy!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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28. August 2011 @ 08:55 |
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Diamond-based pastes like Antec formula 7 have higher conductivity still. Usually though, you start to get diminishing returns beyond good silver paste as the surface of the base of the heatsink starts to have more of an effect.
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28. August 2011 @ 10:22 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Diamond-based pastes like Antec formula 7 have higher conductivity still. Usually though, you start to get diminishing returns beyond good silver paste as the surface of the base of the heatsink starts to have more of an effect.
Sam,
That's why I recommend Arctic Cooling MX-2. It spreads like butter and is non conductive. You can make a mess and still not hurt anything. It has slightly better performance than Arctic Silver 5, about 1-2C better! I put a 3/16" sized ball of it in the middle of the CPU, and it will just spread right to the edges when you flip the lever. Wipe any excess up and you are done! MX-2 is the easiest and most foolproof Thermal past I've ever used. It consistently gives the same results, with little effort.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. August 2011 @ 11:08 |
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MX-2's been used on a few of my coolers. I prefer it to Arctic Silver 5 because as you say, it's slightly better for cooling, but better still it's not electrically conductive, so you don't have to be quite so cautious using it. OCZ Freeze went on a few of my coolers too and performed similarly. I've got some Antec formula 6 as a free gift from the LAN event I'm currently at, so will have to see how that fares whenever I need to next repaste a cooler.
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28. August 2011 @ 11:15 |
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Thanks for the tip, but I'm always careful removing the CPU. CPU's are like babies to me. :D I've got MX-2. Good stuff. I know what you mean by spreads like butter. I fully agree.
Well, my suspected drive is fully formatted. Next step, is once again see what happens. If the bug remains, I pull the drive again. If I pull the drive again, this time I'm waiting closer to a week before making a decision.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
Senior Member
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28. August 2011 @ 11:36 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
The lockup just occurred during format. Either a cable is wigging, or the control board on the drive, or god knows what...
Or it isn't that drive, and it was simply coincidence that the bug never occurred during disconnect... :(
It's starting to make me nuts LOL!
Although it could be a cable I doubt that, it sounds more like a bad drive. Run the manufactures diag tool on your drive and if it is still under warranty write down the return code and create a RMA with them.
Seagate SeaTools
Western Digital Drive Tools
** You'll have to select the correct device from the list on this page and the following page to get to your diag software.
Also Russ is 100% correct when it comes to ceramic paste and it not pulling your CPU out of the socket verses diamond paste. I have done that one myself and never had problems with the old white paste. You could due damage to your socket or CPU with silver as it just bonds too hard and can pull your chip when the heatsink is removed. Dangerous!
Steve
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28. August 2011 @ 11:41 |
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Trust me guys, I'll pay very close attention to my 965 baby ;) It'll likely stay with the board anyway :p Though if I do have a bad board, unlikely, I'd elect to go AM3+ and need to remove it. Time will tell.
I'll run the diagnostic shortly.
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29. August 2011 @ 04:12 |
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The diagnostic came out fine. The drive has been fully reformatted (long format), and lockups are still occurring. However oddly they seem less pronounced. I just disconnected the drive again. Now I wait for 2 full days to see if there's an improvement. If the bug is gone, I'll try a new port. If the bug remains on a new port, it'll be confirmed to be a bad drive. I'll likely be switching Sata cables as well. Two birds with one stone ;)
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29. August 2011 @ 09:45 |
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GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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29. August 2011 @ 09:54 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
The diagnostic came out fine. The drive has been fully reformatted (long format), and lockups are still occurring. However oddly they seem less pronounced. I just disconnected the drive again. Now I wait for 2 full days to see if there's an improvement. If the bug is gone, I'll try a new port. If the bug remains on a new port, it'll be confirmed to be a bad drive. I'll likely be switching Sata cables as well. Two birds with one stone ;)
In this system are you using add-on controllers? If so you may have an interrupt/dma/port conflict, especially if you are using multiple add-on cards.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. August 2011 @ 09:58
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29. August 2011 @ 12:15 |
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No. None of them are currently installed. I needed to eliminate them as a possibility ;)
Well, the 3Tb's controller card is installed. But this bug predates the installation of the card.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. August 2011 @ 12:16
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29. August 2011 @ 17:31 |
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The drive is disconnected, and the bug remains. And since it's less pronounced, I'm forced to believe that something about my setup, is being stressed by multiple drives. Either the southbridge, or the sata controller chip? I have a feeling, if I replaced 'U' drive with another, the problem would persist. At the moment I'm thinking none of my drives are the issue. Sure wish I had a secondary machine that could handle as much as my primary. But that's months away :(
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29. August 2011 @ 19:14 |
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If you run with just your OS drive and no add-on card you still have the problem? If so then try a newer drive with the OS on it to see if the problem is still there. I'm having a difficult time following exactly how you are eliminating things or just rotating swaps.
You really need to get to bare bones and start from there, no add-on card(s), you can't trouble shoot if you're trying to run everything including the kitchen sink. Go back to a bare system and get that to work first. Then start introducing new parts ONE at a time until you find what is failing.
Also do you tweak your system as that can cause problems too? I had a firm that always changed how the page file operates and they swore the new Intel MB?s were no good because after they got the systems I built they tweaked it and things starting not working proper. This guy was difficult to convince that what he was doing was wrong since he always did before and never had problems. Once I found out what he was doing I could demonstrate, recreate, his problem and what he was doing wrong, of course he never admitted he was wrong but he walked away happy, finally.
KISS is the moto,
Steve
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29. August 2011 @ 23:42 |
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MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
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30. August 2011 @ 00:28 |
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For the record, only one add-in card is installed. Necessary for the 3Tb drive. The bug existed before I purchased the 3Tb drive and card.
Here's what I understand. It was running fine for months. Since increasing my storage volumes, a bug was introduced and has become more persistent(could be coincidence). It's almost as though windows or my hardware doesn't like running so many drives or sata ports. When I disconnect hard drives, the problem seems to vanish. But perhaps it simply has become tame, and less pronounced. Since 'U' has been disconnected, the bug is less pronounced(short lived), and doesn't come about as often.
I require access to all my drives. Is there a way to stress the sata chip? Like simultaneously stressing all hard drives? Ugh, to what end...
Surely windows is not the issue though. Sam runs a great deal more drives in his file server!
What's really tempting, is to plug both of my cards back in, and run the storage drives chiefly from the cards. But for all I know, an Optical drive could be responsible. So many possibilities, so little time LOL! I guess I could disconnect all Optical drives, and see what happens.
This is really frustrating guys :(
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