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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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30. September 2012 @ 06:04 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Correct.
I haven't seen any proof of overclocking differences beyond perhaps 1% with Gigabyte vs. any other brand. I assumed it referred to actual perceived performance with the same CPU at the same speed, but there's no proof of that out there either, so I'm a bit baffled...
Within the same brand, different models can have quite different overclocking headroom, so I'd be surprised if there wasn't any differences between boards of different brands too. I'm not going make claims about what's what with them because I don't think that I can be very accurate in that, but I'm sure that there can be differences.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 06:05
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30. September 2012 @ 06:06 |
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Sure, there'll definitely be fairly significant differences between certain boards, but I've never seen a general trend that applies to manufacturers as a whole.
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30. September 2012 @ 12:12 |
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No, slower equates to poor hardware setup and driver support. Many years ago MSI tended to make much more responsive boards as did Intel too then other manufactures with the same chipsets in comparison.
When I was setting up gaming platforms I always used MSI boards even though they were not feature rich typically as I could prove to the gamer that it was a faster board through its performance. They would bootup faster and respond better and with exception to one board I had issues with OC'd better too. The one board that had issues with was due to RAM used with full banks loaded, the RAM had to be dialed back as its timming was too sloppy for the mainboard. Only using one dual bank though was no problem but filled big issues.
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30. September 2012 @ 13:31 |
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Have to agree with Mr-Movies on this one. There can be huge perceived differences in speed between brands due to certain quirks/features the boards have. They react differently to different things.
Have yet to see a motherboard brand that gets the reboot loop quite like Gigabyte boards. This board hates any sort of manipulation of memory timings and usually requires removal of the battery and a cold boot to POST again. So much an issue I have had friends swear off them.
I can't say I'm surprised by Gigabyte's failure rates. They have made some pretty bad mistakes in design with recent models. Luckily even within the same chipset, Gigabyte boards can vary quite a bit. Some models have a proven reputation for performance and reliability. Also, their AMD boards never seemed to have the same problem.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 13:31
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30. September 2012 @ 14:24 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Have to agree with Mr-Movies on this one. There can be huge perceived differences in speed between brands due to certain quirks/features the boards have. They react differently to different things.
Have yet to see a motherboard brand that gets the reboot loop quite like Gigabyte boards. This board hates any sort of manipulation of memory timings and usually requires removal of the battery and a cold boot to POST again. So much an issue I have had friends swear off them.
I can't say I'm surprised by Gigabyte's failure rates. They have made some pretty bad mistakes in design with recent models. Luckily even within the same chipset, Gigabyte boards can vary quite a bit. Some models have a proven reputation for performance and reliability. Also, their AMD boards never seemed to have the same problem.
Estuansis,
You have me curious as hell! Where are all those pretty bad mistakes in recent models, because I haven't heard a word about these sort of problems. I haven't heard of any "cold boot" problem with any GigaByte motherboard since the P-35, and that was almost 3 years ago! I've been building mostly AMD, 785G, 880G, 970G and 990X, and none of these have shown any signs of this that I can see.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 14:48
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30. September 2012 @ 14:44 |
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Well the P67-UD3 for one. Have heard nightmare stories about it. A few other models had similar problems.
As far as the reboot loop it can be triggered on many Gigabyte AMD boards by simply setting memory timings too tight or adjusting the clock ratio. Other boards do it for different reasons. It's not uncommon, and has been encountered by both friends and myself when OCing with them.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 14:44
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30. September 2012 @ 15:22 |
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As far as I know, the cold reboot loop is an Intel specific issue?
I've not encountered it on any of the Gigabyte Intel boards I've had, the P35C-DS3R, P31-DS3L, X38-DS4, X48-DS4, X48-DS5 or P55A-UD4...
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30. September 2012 @ 15:41 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Have to agree with Mr-Movies on this one. There can be huge perceived differences in speed between brands due to certain quirks/features the boards have. They react differently to different things.
Yes indeed. When I first started using windows 7, I also made a switch from MSI to Gigabyte boards. The MSI would boot windows 7 stupid fast, as well as the install. The gigabyte boards still lag during install to this day. Unfortunately, that MSI boards Northbridge (Nvidia) ended up quitting/overheating. Which is of course fine, since that board is VERY outdated today. A micro atx AM2 board. VERY limited potential! A decent HTPC... that's about it.
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30. September 2012 @ 15:43 |
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The 5 minute delay when installing Windows 7 is not specific to Gigabyte boards, it happens with most PCs that have more than two physical drives connected to them, and is almost random.
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30. September 2012 @ 15:51 |
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When I'm installing an OS, only one drive is connected. I didn't always do it this way either. The MSI had 2 or 3 connected. My Gigabytes have only had 1, because I learned that windows will use a secondary for boot information when present :p
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30. September 2012 @ 15:52 |
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This is true, and that is the correct way - but USB card readers and second optical drives can also add delay to the process.
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30. September 2012 @ 15:54 |
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I don't know how to explain it. But the MSI is the only board that streamlined the windows 7 install. When I install the OS now, I start very basic(I only have the essentials connected). And then start connecting devices one by one.
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30. September 2012 @ 15:56 |
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When we first tested Vista (and since this bug was never fixed with 7 I assume it'll behave the same way) with various machines, Asus, Gigabyte, DFI etc. the only one we could get to not do it was a stock Sony Vaio laptop from about 2004...
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30. September 2012 @ 16:24 |
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Quote:
As far as I know, the cold reboot loop is an Intel specific issue?
I've not encountered it on any of the Gigabyte Intel boards I've had, the P35C-DS3R, P31-DS3L, X38-DS4, X48-DS4, X48-DS5 or P55A-UD4...
Seems you answered your own question :P Have not encountered it on Intel boards but have had it a few times with every single AMD board. I think it's more likely to be a Gigabyte specific issue.
Have also noticed the installation delay on many boards. Last board that didn't do it was a VERY barebones ASUS M2N.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 16:32
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30. September 2012 @ 17:14 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Well the P67-UD3 for one. Have heard nightmare stories about it. A few other models had similar problems.
As far as the reboot loop it can be triggered on many Gigabyte AMD boards by simply setting memory timings too tight or adjusting the clock ratio. Other boards do it for different reasons. It's not uncommon, and has been encountered by both friends and myself when OCing with them.
Estuansis,
You'll have to forgive me, but I don't follow Intel very much these days. They have priced themselves out of existence, as far as I'm concerned! What I don't understand is why people will pay $300 for an i7-2600K, put it in a $50 motherboard, and then bitch that the board is no good?
As far as triggering a reboot by tightening the timings too much on the memory, you can do that with most other brand motherboards as well. The whole P67 series were junk to begin with, an attempt to build a cheap motherboard, using cheap, low grade components, and somehow expecting it to do the same job as the big boys high end stuff! Now there's a recipe for failure, if ever I saw one! :)
On the home front, I've settled on 3.8GHz at 1.36v for my 1090t, memory at 1600MHz with timings of 7-8-8-24. I have the NorthBridge running at 2600MHz, and the HT link set to 2600, for 5200MT/s. I can't say enough good things about the Intel SSD! The new 500GB Sata III WD Black is twice as fast as the Sata II one I already have. I think I'm about as up to date as I can get with AMD for the moment. I'll have to wait and see what PileDriver offers.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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30. September 2012 @ 17:25 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
You'll have to forgive me, but I don't follow Intel very much these days. They have priced themselves out of existence, as far as I'm concerned! What I don't understand is why people will pay $300 for an i7-2600K, put it in a $50 motherboard, and then bitch that the board is no good?
I don't think I have ever seen anyone do that...
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30. September 2012 @ 17:26 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Quote:
As far as I know, the cold reboot loop is an Intel specific issue?
I've not encountered it on any of the Gigabyte Intel boards I've had, the P35C-DS3R, P31-DS3L, X38-DS4, X48-DS4, X48-DS5 or P55A-UD4...
Seems you answered your own question :P Have not encountered it on Intel boards but have had it a few times with every single AMD board. I think it's more likely to be a Gigabyte specific issue.
Have also noticed the installation delay on many boards. Last board that didn't do it was a VERY barebones ASUS M2N.
Estuansis,
Are you talking about the 10-15 second delay in the bios after it addresses the drives? If that's what you are talking about, it's where the direct connect architecture gets connected and tested, before continuing the boot!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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30. September 2012 @ 17:32 |
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Not sure about Jeff, but I think we were both discussing the 5 minute wait period at the splash screen before you install Windows Vista/7.
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30. September 2012 @ 17:37 |
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I'd be very interested to know what's going on during that waiting period!
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30. September 2012 @ 18:22 |
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I am referring indeed to the wait before installing Windows Vista/7 commences. A few boards do it just fine, but most simply seem to freeze for a few minutes then resume as normal. I have no clue what causes it.
As far as the P67-UD3, it was indeed a mistake on Gigabyte's part. UD3 level boards have a good reputation for being reliable and capable OC'ers, if not as fully featured as UD4s and UD5s. Also, P67 was Intel's flagship Chipset at the time, so there was every reason to believe that P67+UD3 meant a good, middle of the road board. That was not delivered. It was far from being a cheap $50 board, so you can't blame price.
Take, for instance, my own 890XA-UD3. Full-featured 790X chipset, all the same features as the 790X-UD4, good cooling, not cheap whatsoever. A flagship chipset in a UD3 board should be a knockout combo. This one is, so why isn't the P67 board? There are multiple known problems with them.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 18:30
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30. September 2012 @ 23:06 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
I don't know how to explain it. But the MSI is the only board that streamlined the windows 7 install. When I install the OS now, I start very basic(I only have the essentials connected). And then start connecting devices one by one.
It's not just Windows 7 it also runs faster with XP or whatever... MSI has very well designed boards or at least they used to. Like I said they were not feature rich but they do/did out performed all other boards. It could be due to their firmware setup (BIOS), VIA routing, electrical design, quality components, concepts like less is better, good drivers, or all of the above, but the bottom line is their designers must be much better then the rest.
I love Gigabyte boards but they are some of the slowest out there unfortunately.
Originally posted by omegaman7:
I'd be very interested to know what's going on during that waiting period!
That pause is Windows querying the hardware prior to installing their software so that they can install the proper drivers needed before installing.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. September 2012 @ 23:13
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1. October 2012 @ 00:43 |
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Well considering Gigabyte is slipping???... I may consider different brands come build time in February-ish.
Both Asus, and Asrock are looking interesting. I've had a very good Asus in the past. Perhaps I'll give them another shot. I'm seeing boards with 5yr warranties :)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. October 2012 @ 01:16
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1. October 2012 @ 01:48 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Well considering Gigabyte is slipping???... I may consider different brands come build time in February-ish.
Oman7,
My thoughts, exactly! Did you know that GigaByte was slipping?? LOL!!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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1. October 2012 @ 02:12 |
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I am subscribed to this thread ;)
I like my 1090t. I'm seeing speed improvements across the board, where multiple cores can be used. Convertx, X264, etc. But I still want more LOL! A powerful 8 core, or 10 core would be wonderful. Or perhaps even a board that supports dual/quad CPUs. I realize these are expensive ;)
Can't wait to go full time at my job. BIG BIG money. Computers are only one of my passions. I love to experiment with things. Lets just say Science was/is my major :p And since I'm a bachelor, I don't have to shell out money to a female :p Believe me, I prefer it this way -----> :p <------
Some people are here on this earth to multiply like rabbits. I on the other hand am here for another reason.
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1. October 2012 @ 07:56 |
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Quote:
It's not just Windows 7 it also runs faster with XP or whatever... MSI has very well designed boards or at least they used to. Like I said they were not feature rich but they do/did out performed all other boards. It could be due to their firmware setup (BIOS), VIA routing, electrical design, quality components, concepts like less is better, good drivers, or all of the above, but the bottom line is their designers must be much better then the rest.
It's a double-edged sword. For every good board MSI put out, they also put out one with issues. Mostly issues with power management and OCing. There is a list compiled on the OCForums of otherwise capable motherboards that are cooked by OCing due to inadequate power design or cooling. Many MSI boards and some of the mid-range Gigabyte/ASUS(780G/785G) boards suffer from these issues.
Granted not everyone OC's, but this seems to be very telling about the quality and cooling. Some of those boards listed should easily be able to handle a mild OC.
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Some people are here on this earth to multiply like rabbits. I on the other hand am here for another reason.
I also have a very non-traditional view about that subject, though maybe not as isolationist :P
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. October 2012 @ 08:02
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