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Intel P4 vs AMD
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. October 2005 @ 21:55 |
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Gentlemen,
I have really enjoyed the recent reparte and the thought of spraying water on a CPU or building one in a fridge seems both scary and just a litle frightening. I have a few questions about the here and now I would like to direct your way. A little background! I've been building PCs since the 386/25 and stayed with it through the Pentium 333. I took time off and missed the P-II and most of the P-III. I got back in again by buying a Dell Precision 420 1Ghz, 512 40ns Rambus ram, 133 fsb. Acordind to the original invoice this was less than 2 years old with an original price tag from Dell of around $5000 when bought new! I paid $165.00 for it from Elextro-Rents. For it's day, a hell of a machine! I graduated to a dell 3000 P-4 2.8/533 fsb and now I just got done building an Asus P4P800 SE, P-4 3.0/800, 1 gig (2x512) PC-2700 DDR Ram, 865PE chipset, 120 Gb Diamond Plus ATA 133, 7200 rpm hard drive with an NVidia FX5200 PCI video card. I wound up going Intel because I bought the CPU in combo with an ECS (piece of shit!!!) motherboard from Fry's. Scuse me, but I had to get that out of my system. The combo was $185 so I bought it. I've also build a couple of Athlon XP 2500+ computers and was impressed with their performance.
With that out of my way here are my questions. I've noticed that my memory runs at 320 Mhz instead of 333. I also notice that if I overclock 10% my memory slows down to 266 Mhz while the fsb goes up to 866. I'm trying to get a better understanding as to modern chipsets and motherboards. I know there are areas that I can improve on even with this entry level motherboard. I guess the answers I am looking for is the reasons for these changes and what they mean to me in terms of performance. I do a lot of video re-authoring at the present time with DVD Shrink. Most DVDs take me about 20 - 25 mins to do. To me this is pretty quick but to you guys it's probably cave man slow!
Sincerely,
theonejrs
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brobear
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19. October 2005 @ 22:33 |
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Ohhh... Sophoclesss....
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64026402
Senior Member
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20. October 2005 @ 03:33 |
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Theonejrs,
What setting did you change to achieve the 10% overclock. Normally you might bump the FSB 10% but 866 doesn't match.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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20. October 2005 @ 03:33 |
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I personally didnt think an 800mhz FSB P4 had good compatibility with PC2700 RAM. From what i've heard it can lead to problems, and you can't select that combination on most system configuration websites...
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2005 @ 07:49 |
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Gentlemen,
Thank you for the quick response. My Bad (stupid). I guess I can't read. The fsb is 879.92. This gives 219.98 x 15.0 for 3299.70 or 10%. I did this from the bios setup, Advanced, jumper free configuration, AT overclock timer. According to the manual, they show PC3200, PC2700 and PC2100 for the 800 MHz fsb. There is a note that PC2700 may run at 320 MHz when using the 800 MHz fsb due to chipset limitations. There are several other settings you can change in the bios. It has a performance mode which if Turbo is used won't let the computer boot or the monitor show anything but a blank screen. There is also a software program that came with the motherboard called Ai Booster which is like a dashboard for the system. It shows present fsb, cpu speed, temps, voltages and a few other things. I've only overclocked 1 computer in my life and that was about 10 years ago with a p166 on an Asus mb. I raised it to 185. Half the time it would give faulty data or hang! I haven't tried to go beyond 10% as I know very little about overclocking and I sure don't want to roach my cpu.
Sincerely,
theonejrs
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brobear
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20. October 2005 @ 10:13 |
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theonejrs
Once the settings were changed to attain the overclock configuration, did you adust any of the voltage settings?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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20. October 2005 @ 13:15 |
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brobear
You may have solved your own problem, it's your memory that's holding you back. Try and relax the timing on your memory for instance if it's set at 2-2-2-5 then reset it to 3-3-3-7 or even 4-4-4-7 this will allow you to increase your frontside bus. Also since you have an Asus board you can keep your PCI bus at 33 mhz/66mhz (AGP)which prevents you from stressing out your hardware.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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brobear
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20. October 2005 @ 14:49 |
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Wrong name Sophocles. I was just asking a question. theonejrs is the one trying to overclock his system.
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2005 @ 17:36 |
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Minor slip no pun intended, just a few overworked brain cells. LOL
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2005 @ 22:40 |
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to brobear The only setting I touched was the 10% in the set up. I'm not trying to overclock but I just wanted to see if I could make up for the 79% memory bandwidth. I checked the system at 3.00 GHz and it matches or exceeds all the specs except the memory. It even does a little better at 3.29 but not enough to matter Red covers blue everywhere but the memory so it looks like I'll have to find some PC3200 memory. Any reasonable 512 PC3200s around. Im not cheap, just poor but happy! I'm 61 and I had a real bad heart attack 3 years ago so I've slowed way down and only work about 20 hours a week. I repair dental equipment and air driven dental handpieces for a small dental supply house here in San Bernardino. It works out pretty good for both of us as he can't afford me full time and I only want to work part time. I now build and repair computers as well so I stay busy enough. I read you guys to see what I can learn that may help me down the road. A lot has changed since Opti was THE chipset and we all drooled waiting for the HT and HX chipsets to hit the market. I just got done building 2 other computers last week. My first since 98! Both Athlon XP 2500+. One on an MSI K7n2 socket A board that I had and a Shuttle MK40V-VN socket A board that I swapped a socket 478 Albatron board for at thenetseller.com so I could use the other 2500+ I had. I was very impressed with the performance of both of these computers. Particularly in CPU temps. There are 6 fans in my Intel 3.0. an 80mm and a 100 mm in the power supply, a 120 mm case fan in the rear blowing out, an 80mm in the window blowing in, the Intel CPU cooler and the one on the video card. The temp runs about 60-62C with the case never exceeding 34C. My landlord leaves his 2500+ on all day and the CPU temp never reaches 40C with only a Spire cooler and a cheap 80 mm case fan. I'll let you guys know when I am planning to build a new one. I have in mind an Athlon 64 3200+. I'm not a big fan of sata yet.. It's still slower than the 10,000 rpm scusi in my old Dell Precision and right now costs more than ata 133 drives. I don't buy anything but Maxtors and I have several in stock. some 80s, a couple of 120s and a 160. I'm out of DDR memory at the moment but I'll look around and see what I can find.
Anyway, thanks to all for the input!
theonejrs
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WhatUp
Newbie
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21. October 2005 @ 08:27 |
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Hi I would like to add the debate with a link for AMD vs Intel :). I think both are great but my claim is if you are a custom builder or have any influence in your corporation you must foster competition because Intel without AMD is like Microsoft without Linux, Aple, Unix etc.
Here the link to the article that I found very interesting: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1833676,00.asp
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AfterDawn Addict
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24. October 2005 @ 07:41 |
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Dear Sophocles and Brobear,
I want to thank you for all your help. I went out today and bought some PC3200 memory. It's PNY Optima. It's the best that I can afford right now but what a difference it makes. This thing rocks! I played around with the overclocking but in every instance it cuts the memory bandwidth. When I run Software Sandra and set the comparisums to the chipset/memory, cpu, hard drive and lan connection of my computer the red completely covers the blue. In multi-media and arithmatic it well exceeds the blue. The memory now runs at 400 and the difference in speed is amazing. Even my encoding times have decreased! Once again, many thanks to you and everyone who took the time to help me. If I can ever return the favor, just ask.
Sincerely,
theonejrs
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brobear
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24. October 2005 @ 15:09 |
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theonejrs
Glad things are looking up. Things change and I like browsing the trades to see some of the new tech coming our way. Computer Power Users (CPU) is one I like browsing (check the links I provided earlier, they're online as well). Magazines don't tell you everything you need to know, but there are some interesting articles on CPUs, chipsets, and MoBos. Browsing can give you enough info to give you more direction for your questions.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. October 2005 @ 14:10 |
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To All (I don't want to slight anyone),
I've played around with the settings in the setup and the best combination seems to be running the 3.0 at 3.15 with turbo on. My FSB becomes 4x210 840MHz and the memory becomes 2x210 for a 420MHz data rate. Any other settings degrade the memory speed to 266MHz. There is a program on the disk that came with the MB called AI Booster which has a 7% setting but I haven't tried it yet. I'm going to run like this for a few days and see how it goes. According to Sandra, the current performance exceeds the stock in every catagory with a very wide margin in multi-media and math. I'm open to suggestion!
Russ "theonejrs"
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. October 2005 @ 14:40 |
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theonejrs
Sometimes it's better to sacrifice a bit of memory speed in favor of CPU speed which will in effect make your memory speeds faster. For example my first over clock gave me a front side bus speed of 220X5 hyper transport for a total of 1100 MHz (effectively 2200 MHz front side bus)speed. My memory bandwidth with Sisoft was 5253 mb/s with a command rate of 2T. I dropped my Hyper transport speeds from 5 times to 4 times and then raised my front side bus speed to 242 times a hyper transport of 4 which give me a front side bus of 960 (960 times 2 is effectively 1920 MHz)but with a command rate of 1T. With those settings my memory benched with sisoft rose to 6876 mb/s which is almost a 15% increase. On top of that my CPU speeds went from 2.4 ghz to 2.64 ghz which is a CPU over clock increase over a previous over clock of over 9%. My over all memory gains over stock was 41.4% and for CPU it was 17%.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. October 2005 @ 15:02 |
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All i can really say to that for the moment would be:
eyyyyyyy
So how does lowering the hyper transport setting work then?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. October 2005 @ 15:49 |
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sammorris
You don't with the AMD Barton core which is what you have, but the point is that adjustments have to be balanced to maximize. With the Barton core you should have access to both clock speed and front side bus adjustments depending on your motherboard. I made a system for my son using the Athlon XP 2500+ and it's over clocked to a 3200+. The key ingredient was using memory that was higher rated than the systems requirements of PC2700. I used CAS2 PC3200 which is back compatible and because it is rated higher than the systems demands it was an easy over clock.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
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28. October 2005 @ 17:00 |
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To sophocles,
This is what I get with SiSoft.
Memory Bandwidth benchmark 9893
File system Bandwidth 50336
Network bandwidth 10324
CPU Arithmatic Bandwidth 12839
CPU multi-media 51589
Combined performance 3390
This is at 5% with the turbo turned on.
Don't quite know what to make of these numbers.
Russ "theonejrs"
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. October 2005 @ 17:26 |
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SiSoftware Sandra
Display on Screen
Connection : Local Computer
Device Type : Desktop
CPU Arithmetic Benchmark
Analysing...
Combined Index : 12850 (total)
Finished Successfully : Yes
CPU Multi-Media Benchmark
Analysing...
Combined Index : 51587 (total)
Finished Successfully : Yes
Memory Bandwidth Benchmark
Analysing...
Combined Index : 9891 (total)
Finished Successfully : Yes
File System Benchmark
Analysing...
Combined Index : 50419 (total)
Finished Successfully : Yes
Network/LAN Bandwidth Benchmark
Analysing...
Combined Index : 10310 (total)
Finished Successfully : Yes
Combined Performance Index Wizard
Combined Index : 3392 (total)
Finished Successfully : Yes
Sophocles,
I had to figuire a way to post these to you. I copied the clipboard to Notepad and then copied and pasted it to the message. The above is what I got last run! Looks pretty good to me.
theonejrs
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. October 2005 @ 17:38 |
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Show me a screen capture of it. And make sure that you also get a screen capture of your systems specs. Edited to remove unnecessary harsh word.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. October 2005 @ 05:43
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64026402
Senior Member
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28. October 2005 @ 19:44 |
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What Sophocles is saying is the text info given does not directly corrospond to the actual test window as shown above.
To be usefull you would need to post a similar screen shot.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. October 2005 @ 19:47 |
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What I'm saying is that the spec's that he posted for his system can't hit the bench marks that he posted.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. October 2005 @ 19:47
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64026402
Senior Member
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28. October 2005 @ 20:03 |
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The combined results are likely double the actual individual test results, putting them more in line with expected.
Donald
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64026402
Senior Member
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28. October 2005 @ 20:15 |
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Yeah, 9891 is about what you get from the pc3200 ddr dual channel Intel reference if adding both the benchmarks. Int and floating together.
The funny thing is when I copy to text it shows the seperate tests unlike above.
Donald
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. October 2005 @ 20:17
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. October 2005 @ 20:32 |
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Sophocles,
I sent you a private message. It's 9:30 here and I'll be up for a few more hours!
Russ
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