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Intel P4 vs AMD
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brobear
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11. March 2006 @ 21:22 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Theonejrs
I appreciate your generosity. The care package isn't needed at present. Asus has a treasure trove of online documents and downloads. If I run into needing the parts, I'll get back to you. Thanks again.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -
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11. March 2006 @ 21:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Sophocles,

The offer to Brobear is for you as well. I forgot to put your name on it. Old age! Good wine (Matus)! A Good woman!!! That's why I forgot!!!

Happy Computering,

theonejrs

GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor


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11. March 2006 @ 21:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Haven't amd benchmarks always lean to AMD not Intel for the longest??
This is a real question I have only recently even thought about buying AMD. I personally think that Microsoft needs to make there os software better.?.? If you look at benchmarks for Gaming and encoding AMD looks so far ahead, yet a lot of gamers still go Intel.?
Ilooked at the athlon 64 fx 60 toledo. but the fx 57 sandiago comes in close. and the 955 Intel presler have a better memory float?
It is all so confusing. but at 1000.00 a shot.. I'll keep what i have for awhile.


p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
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brobear
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11. March 2006 @ 22:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
theonejrs
The wine I believe. LOL

Baltekmi
Only over the past 2-3 years has AMD pulled away from Intel and then mostly on the higher end processors. AMDs are friendlier to customization, but it hasn't really been noted here that Intels can really be boosted if one wants to improve the cooling. Also, look to the GPUs in use as well as the CPUs. Then the supporting mobo and chipset. Note that the games are not yet developed for 64 bit and dual core systems. So, the high speed Intels can still compete in the game arena. As has been pointed out, some of the top gamers are still using Intel systems.

Benchmarks do favor AMDs because dual cores score better on them and AMD has the better dual core processors. When it comes to OC(ing), AMD is the friendliest. So, naturally they're going to win out. Even the later AMD top end single cores are going to put a hurt on most later Intels. It's interesting to note, as I pointed out earlier, the older Northwood processors actually compete better on bench tests than the newer Intel single core processors. Go figure. ;)

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -
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11. March 2006 @ 22:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
brobear
Like I said before I think I will keep what i got. It looks like it will take a while before I upgrade. I can't go any further with what I have. Other than memory. But I have no problems. Thanks For the input.

p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
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brobear
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11. March 2006 @ 22:59 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Actually you could take a good step up without a large investment. A 3800+ or even one of the lower cost dual cores are reasonably priced. Most of the quality components on your current sytem are reusable. About all you would need is a mobo, and CPU, and possibly a case and power supply. The latter need not be the most expensive. You could use cheap components to rebuild your Prescott system as a backup or sell the parts. Selling the machine or the parts could help defray the cost of the better custom you build. Adding a better video card might be something to do later, but not a must right away.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. March 2006 @ 23:01

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11. March 2006 @ 23:56 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Brobear,
Quote:
The wine I believe. LOL
Nope! It was most definately the woman!!!!!

Happy Computering,

theonejrs




GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor


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12. March 2006 @ 04:14 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
theonejrs


My refurbished board came in a box with everything included. Except for convenience the CD isn't needed because it all can be downloaded from Asus' website.


baltekmi


When AMD and Intel chips are benched marked it is done with a cipset/CPU neutral testing soft. Some game manufacturers do optimize their games for some video cards but never for AMD or Intel. Intel's floating point operations aren't better than AMD's. The higher scores are usually seen on single core Intel's and they bench higher because of Hyper Threading. The problem here is that Hyper Threading only works on non CPU intensive applications. With application such as games and encoders Hyper Threading is not doing anything. When the CPU is under full load there are no extra CPU cycles for hyper threading and so goes the floating point unit.

If you look at my bench below you will note that here the AMD's have a higher floating point operation almost across the board. Hell the $500 X2 4400 is easily beating the $1000 Intel D840.





brobear

The Intel 955 sells for almost $1100 and in most test on the web the X2 4800 is still holding its own in many benchmarks and still beats it in gaming. Part of its problem is the 1066 Mhz frontside bus. Dual cores really make use of the frontside bus and AMD's 2000 Mhz is going to give it an advantage.

Now if you look at my benchmarks and compare them to the X2 4800, and by how much it is beating it I think that you clearly see that my system will but an Intel 955 system on a leash and walk it around the park like a little doggy looking for a fire hydrant.:)

With some good gear and being overclocked it might match or even beatmy system by a little bit which is specualtion, and I doubt. But if I had an Opteron 185 it wouldn't have chance. if I had an FX60 which sells for $60 less than the 955, then taking it to church on Sunday and having having Billy Graham and the entire parish pray for it would still find it closer to hell than heaven.:)




"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 07:49

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12. March 2006 @ 07:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I think Sophocles realy has conclusive proof that with Intel vs AMD on dual cores, at least for the moment, there is no contest. You wonder how much people have 'wasted' on buying 9xx and 8xx CPUs as opposed to X2s just to see the "intel inside" logo.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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updated 10-Dec-13
brobear
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12. March 2006 @ 16:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I don't see why anyone needs to add proof at this time that AMD beats Intel on benchmarks. That's a given at this point in time. Sophocles is proud of his OC(ed) AMD as is evident. Not too long ago Sophocles had an Intel which he was equally proud of. I suspect if Intel ever gets off their duff and makes it back to the top, Sophocles may end up with another Intel and be equally as proud of it. That's really stretching a bit, since Intel seems to keep going the wrong way, except on the mobile systems.

Intel got the 955 up to 1066MHz FSB. This has the cores running at 1GHz now. So, they're not totally behind. Plus the 955 is carrying 2MB L2 cache per core, twice its predecessor's capacity. So, the newer Intels are showing more promise. Intel's R&D just isn't moving fast enough to catch up yet. If the 955 was OC(ed), I suspect it would walk the dog and kick some butt on a bunch of stock AMD processors. Sophocles keeps comparing his OC(ed) systems to stock Intels. That's back to the apples and oranges again. Soph has bought and built bragging rights. But I've seen some benches on some OC(ed) Intels that look good too. I don't need to be told, I'm aware that an OC(ed) FX-60 should beat an OC(ed) Intel 955 on the benches. Luckily in the real world, the differences in the sytems aren't so great as the benchmarks make out. Either those extreme gamers with the Intels are compensating by being far superior to their competitors, or the Intel extreme game machines aren't that much slower than their AMD counterparts. As things are now, I'd buy AMD. But I'm not going to say that Intel is as far off as some people like to say. Wonder why those extreme gamers are still using Intel. Could it be the sponsors or they just like them? ;)

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 20:20

64026402
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12. March 2006 @ 16:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The 955 has a total of 1066 mhz of memory speed to split between the cores making it 533mhz each. Each HT bus runs 2000 mhz. Sophocles Optetron has 3 HT links in addtion to the direct memory controller.
Intel isn't even close.

Donald
64026402
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12. March 2006 @ 17:04 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The real world CCE encoding performance is were the AMD really leaves P4 in the dust. In most benchmarks AMD is just faster in degrees comparable to mhz. CCE is the reason I didn't go Intel dual core. Again not even close.


Donald
JimMrBass
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12. March 2006 @ 17:51 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Anyone in the electronics industry knows that heat is our greatest enemy. excessive heat ruins transistors resistors diodes, etc etc. Therefore AMD has to be the better choice, because in comparison they run much cooler.
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12. March 2006 @ 17:52 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
What 6402 said. LOL

I thought that I had made the differences in frontside bus clear. And yes brobear if Intel gets the lead and I ready to do a build I'll buy it instead but I fear that may be some time coming. Intel went down the wrong path for too long and wasn't paying attention to what the little Texas company was up to. I have a feeling that AMD has already developed its future CPU's but don't have a reason to release them because they're already ahead and gaining in market share while Intel plays catch
up.

"Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:

Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 17:59

64026402
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12. March 2006 @ 18:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The trick for Intel to jump ahead would be to jump on the Hypertransport bandwagon. They are allowed but it would embarrass them so they'll stall and loose time while they figure another route.
They shouldn't have any trouble making a fast processor but again they need to face the end of netburst and produce a top notch native 64 bit x86 compatible processor.
They don't have to go through all the trouble AMD did. Their rescources are bigger to start with.

Or Intel could just continue to advertize mhz and do volume discounts on inferior products. It has worked in the past. But it sucks for competition.


Donald

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 18:14

crowy
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12. March 2006 @ 18:55 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
New material structure produces world's fastest transistor.


A new type of transistor structure, invented by scientists at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, has broken the 600 gigahertz speed barrier. The goal of a terahertz transistor for high-speed computing and communications applications could now be within reach.

The new device -- built from indium phosphide and indium gallium arsenide -- is designed with a compositionally graded collector, base and emitter to reduce transit time and improve current density. With their pseudomorphic heterojunction bipolar transistor, the researchers have demonstrated a speed of 604 gigahertz -- the fastest transistor operation to date.

"Pseudomorphic grading of the material structure allows us to lower the bandgap in selected areas," said Milton Feng, the Holonyak Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering and a researcher at the Coordinated Science Laboratory at Illinois. "This permits faster electron flow in the collector. The compositional grading of the transistor components also improves current density and signal charging time."

Feng and graduate student Walid Hafez fabricated the new device in the university's Micro and Nanotechnology Laboratory. They describe the pseudomorphic HBT concept, and discuss the transistor's high-speed operation, in the April 11 issue of the journal Applied Physics Letters.

The goal of a terahertz transistor was not possible using the previous device structure, Feng said. "To achieve such speed in a typical HBT, the current density would become so large it would melt the components. In our pseudomorphic HBT, we can operate at higher frequencies with less current density. With this new material structure, a terahertz transistor is achievable."

Faster transistors could facilitate faster computers, more flexible and secure wireless communications systems, and more effective electronic combat systems.

Can't wait!!
A 600gig processor? 400gig ram? 200gig GPU?
Sounds like science fiction.But then so did landing on the moon 50 years ago.

http://www.physorg.com/news3662.html
aabbccdd
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12. March 2006 @ 19:01 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
yeah but is it really nesserary ,probably not you get to a certian point and its overkill ,like car audio you have systems that can produce 170 db but you cant listen to it that loud so theres no point to do it
tcosmanj
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12. March 2006 @ 19:02 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Just to let all know that i was running a P4 3.4 with 2 Gb ram and have changed to the below listed specs and thier is no comparison , AMD RULES

Sorry to leave you all in the dust

ASUS A8N32-SLI Mainboard
AMD 4400 X2 CPU
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Dont get into a stickup with PC's with me - You will lose
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crowy
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12. March 2006 @ 19:09 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
@abbccdd,
No its probably not neccessary,however, mans never ending quest for speed and power will see it become reality one day.I can't honestly see
electronics engineers saying: OK we have achieved 4GHZ,thats fast enough,lets stop there.There will always be someone that wants to go faster:)
aabbccdd
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12. March 2006 @ 19:15 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
yes theres alway the challange ,thats what drives it
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12. March 2006 @ 20:00 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   


Sophocles what do you make of this claim. I am not as astute as some of you, but this seems like a extreme claim?

sorry here it is


p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 20:30

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12. March 2006 @ 20:16 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
yeah but is it really nesserary ,probably not you get to a certian point and its overkill ,like car audio you have systems that can produce 170 db but you cant listen to it that loud so theres no point to do it
Well yes or we would still me using the 100mgz processors.
Some of you guysmay not know this, but my first computer wes a texas instument(TI) TI99/4a. That's when apple was king of the hill. My next was the Commodore 64. Got online when all it said was LOGIN:

As far as car audio, now here is where my feet is wet. You cannot produce 170 db in ANY car that can be purchased off the lot and then some. Even the tricked out show cars and vans such as Cerwin Vega Pioneer etc. can barely achieave 140 or more. I do agree with 1 thing though you cannot listen to that high (120 or more for very long)! For one thing you eyeballs vibrate so much you cannot see the road.
happy computering!



p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 20:27

brobear
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12. March 2006 @ 20:18 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
;) What are they claiming. Conspicuously missing is the name of the CPU that is being discussed. Plus, a lot of the reviews on Newegg can be taken with a grain of salt.

'Brobear'





I was an earth-rim walker, a lurker at the threshold of the abyss. - Grendel -
aabbccdd
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12. March 2006 @ 20:25 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
baltekmi ,your wrong on that i think the world record is around 175db ,i will try to find some info on that READ THIS!!!

Scott Owens, owner of Edge Audio in Phoenix, AZ, wowed everyone at the 2005 MECA Finals in Nashville, TN by hitting the highest score ever recorded in MECA at 179.6 db in his final run Sunday, October 30th. Scott had hit a 179.2 db the day before, setting a record at that point which he eclipsed.

heres the link

http://www.mecacaraudio.com/

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. March 2006 @ 20:33

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12. March 2006 @ 20:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
brobear sorry read it again

p-4 3.2 prescott HT curently at 3.6/Abit IC7-G (Abit rule!)/2 Gig Mushkin extream 2.5-2-2-6
LG 20.1 FLATRON WIDESCREEN/BFG 6800 ultra@450 mgz/2 wd raptor 150 raid/Ultra 500 watt Direct connet ps
NZXT GUARDIAN CASE(BLUE)
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