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Intel P4 vs AMD
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crowy
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3. May 2006 @ 12:19 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 21:22
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 13:38 |
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I have no idea why a BIOS flash would be such a big deal. It's common practice when doing a custom build to check for BIOS updates. BIOS updates happen much like firmware updates for a drive. I updated the BIOS on this board when I did the build. A person should occasionally check for updates to see if there have been any improvements.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. May 2006 @ 13:47 |
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Hmmm, looks good crowy, except i notice that little chipset fan issue is cropping up here and there. However, I have the option to replace it with my own if i want for £5 (don't know how quiet they are though).
Brobear: A necessary BIOS flash is bad news if you don't have a CPU to hand that will boot in the board. Supposing I'm OC'ing and find a frequency that crashes, then have to reset the CMOS. I'm stuffed, am I not?
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crowy
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3. May 2006 @ 17:20 |
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@ sammorris,
The DFI board required no bios flash to recognize my dual core athlon.
Instant recognition of the cpu no problem.
Also when overclocking there is an option to save your current bios configuration(in fact you can save 3 different bios settings) under the option "cmos reloaded".So if you tweak just a little to far and your pc wont boot,just restart your computer hold down a user predefined key
ie: F1,F2 etc. and the computer will boot at the settings that key is assigned to.No turning off and removing jumpers etc.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 17:22
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. May 2006 @ 17:31 |
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Okay I was directed here my aabbccdd. I'm not thumbing through 130 pages, so I'll just ask. People seem to be fanboys of Intel and AMD chips, without much middle ground. If they love one, they hate the other. I've read that AMD processors are preferable for gamers PC's and can run rings around Intel chips in terms of gaming and multitasking. There're other people who say that Intel chips are faster in terms of word processing apps and MS office apps. Which is it? Which one is faster all around? Or is it just as I described, they both excel at certain tasks. Thanks for the info.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 17:31
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 17:40 |
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sammorris
No problems with the AI boards from Asus. You OC too far and the sytem boots back with the default settings. Saved me a bunch of work. While rebooting all I have to do is hold the Delete key and go back into BIOS to reset whatever I need or want, it's jumperless. I know there's other good boards, but I'm sold on the ASUS for ease and quality. On the less expensive boards with the little problematic fans, just go ahead and replace it if you don't trust it. There's always some little tweak we're going to need or want to do on a new build.
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64026402
Senior Member
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3. May 2006 @ 17:44 |
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The mini reviews were apparently low skilled newbies.
You can flash with the with 3800+ x2 if you use a single stick of ram in the correct slot. It is standard on the NF4 boards.
I guarrantee I could use the supposed DOA board.
Most of my refurb boards are from people sending their bad boards back. They all work.
Donald
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 17:53 |
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Tokijin
Well, you caught me here. I'm middle of the road. I like both AMD and Intel. They're both quality merchandise as long as you stay out of the cheap bottom end.
Currently the AMD has an overall advantage for the highend processors. But in the real world, not many people are going to see the difference. Gamers use both and office apps use both. As far as word processing, there's not a human alive that could out type a word processing app as long as the PC was running properly. AutoCad and similar apps that require a lot of CPU input are where processor power comes in (plus RAM). A faster CPU can also search accts faster on a database. But as I said, in the real world, if you have a comparable AMD or Intel, they're both going to get the job done, just a slight advantage to AMD at present.
As for laptops, I like the Intel Centrino Duo Core systems. Intel is doing a better job with the mobiles than the desktops. Later this summer or fall, Intel has a new processor due out that is supposed to be more competitive with AMD. AMD fans say AMD will have an answer. All kinds of rumors and speculation. So that is wait and see. Intel showed the CPU at an earlier trade show, but it's questionble how reliable test results were. It wasn't exactly broad based independent testing.
For a person buying a PC, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. For the custom enthusiast that can tweak his system, go with the AMD till Intel shows something better.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 18:02
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 18:01 |
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The Donald
Quote:
The mini reviews were apparently low skilled newbies.
LOL I know I'm a novice, but didn't realize I was considered so rank. Sammorris was asking what if he was OCing and went too far, I just added what Asus AI does in such a case; not to detract from your addition though (that's the DOA and "won't work" boards). ;) If a lot of people would just read the guides or check support, there'd be fewer returned "dead" parts. Then the refurbished pickings would be slimmer, so you may not want to do too many warnings. LOL
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 18:08
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boxwrench
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3. May 2006 @ 18:17 |
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Well guys I got my new rig together today...not too shabby eh!Thanks to Sophocles for the pointers he posted.
Main System- Amd/64 3800x2 currently@ 2.5ghz. Asus A8N-E,win.xp-pro.4x1gb.Ocz platnium ddr 400,Maxtor 40gb.& 250gb.ide & 2x W.D.250 sata,Benq 1650V dvd Reader & Benq DW-1655 Writer,EVGA Geforce 7600gs,Creative Audigy-LS,Antec 750w psu. Vizio 37"hdtv monitor 1360x768@75hz.
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 18:26 |
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Quote:
Well guys I got my new rig together today...not too shabby eh!Thanks to Sophocles for the pointers he posted.
Congrats and glad you're happy with it. Now you need to work on those screen captures so we can read them. ;) Go to http://www.download.com/3120-20_4-0.html?tg=dl-20&qt=CaptureWizPr... and try out CaptureWizPro. The capture crowy did recently is easier on the eyes and a bit more legible.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 18:29
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boxwrench
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3. May 2006 @ 18:31 |
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Thanks I'll give it a try.Hows this?
Main System- Amd/64 3800x2 currently@ 2.5ghz. Asus A8N-E,win.xp-pro.4x1gb.Ocz platnium ddr 400,Maxtor 40gb.& 250gb.ide & 2x W.D.250 sata,Benq 1650V dvd Reader & Benq DW-1655 Writer,EVGA Geforce 7600gs,Creative Audigy-LS,Antec 750w psu. Vizio 37"hdtv monitor 1360x768@75hz.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 19:08
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64026402
Senior Member
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3. May 2006 @ 18:42 |
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I wasn't referencing your post Brobear. It was several posts back that some newbie problems were quoted as a reason to not buy a board.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. May 2006 @ 19:35 |
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Thanks for the info BroBear. Do you guys endorse OCing, or do you feel it's better to just get a stable mobo at a rated speed? I've discussed this with a couple people, and seems OCing is really just a hobby for tech freaks, and not really a necessity. I can get addicted to things with the best of em, but it seems like a stable mobo would be more to my liking. I've read Asus is high end, what type of mobo would you guys recommend for high end, but affordable performance? Thanks.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 19:35
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 20:13 |
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Tokijin
To me anything under $200 that adds significant performance or ease of performance is a buy. Mobos range from inexpensive to ones with the bells and whistles (mostly still below the $200 mark. Just remember, the mobo is home to that hard working CPU and RAM, so I like to give it the opportunity to do it's best while I enjoy the options. I've developed a liking for Asus as a personal favorite. In the future, I'll probably use them for builds unless someone asks me to put something else in. So far I'm just putting things together for the family, so they usually go along with my suggestions.
As for OCing, I'd recommend it within reason. Those that say it's for tech freaks probably have no understanding of how to do it or what's involved. A person can get significant performance gains from some processors without straining the system. 10% or so with a good air cooling system normally doesn't strain anything. I have a mild OC of about 10% and it runs cooler than most stock systems. It adds a noticable performance gain when I'm encoding, which I do quite a bit of. Some sytems OC even higher than mine and still remain stable. Those who take it to extremes aren't worried as much about stable systems as bragging rights. Just dial it up to where it still runs cool enough and stable and quit there. You can have OC and a stable system as well.
Boxwrench
By Jove lad, I believe you have it. LOL
Donald,
Just pulling your leg bud. We posted within minutes of each other, so I didn't really think you were doing a put down on me. It was just the way the posts fell. ;) However, I do realize I'm a novice compared to some of the members here.
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3. May 2006 @ 20:28 |
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crowy,
I went to the link you posted and checked it out. I read all the reviews and then went to Newegg to check out all of their motherboards. One thing I noticed was that Newegg has a lot, and I mean a lot of "refurbished" DFI MBs. I've read refrences to "newbies" and their difficulties with NF-4 MBs. That doesn't make any sense as most newbies wouldn't consider a MB this expensive in the first place. Many newbies are very young and don't have a lot of money so I don't see them spending $30 to $40 more for the MB when that money could go towards more memory or a better video card. There are a great many quality motherboards available for a lot less money. Of the 20 motherboards newegg lists for DFI, 7 of them are refurbished. That means that too many have been returned. This makes me more than a little "gun-shy"
I also rarely ever hear anything about DFI MBs in this forum. I hear Asus, Abit, MSI and Gigabyte but nothing about DFI. Makes me even a little more "gun-shy". Several members have done recent builds. None of them used DFI motherboards. These are very knowlegable people. Seems to me that if this MB was that good, someone would have mentioned it!
After carefull consideration, the winner is:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131540 I noticed that a number of people who bought this motherboard, also had an A8N32. It's obvious from the reviews that this is the better motherboard!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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brobear
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3. May 2006 @ 20:42 |
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Theonejrs
Looks like you're willing to spend a few dollars for a high end mobo. I like the choice. However, look at all you can add for about $30 more with the A8N32, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131568 . I especially like the fanless cooling system on this one with the copper tube and all the fins. Just think how well a Zalman will work on that. ;) Plus, there's that impressive list of extra features. Check the list and compare.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 20:55
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crowy
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3. May 2006 @ 21:14 |
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theonejrs,
I noticed out of 42 ASUS boards there are 22 refurbished ones for sale.
Thats over 50% refurbished.
Out of 19 DFI boards(not 20) there are 6(not 7) refurbished ones for sale.
Thats less than a third:-)
I never did like guns.
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crowy
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3. May 2006 @ 21:21 |
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Neoseeker Review
Below is a synopsis of the full Neoseeker Review.
DFI LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D
Feb 22, 05
The DFI LanParty UT nF4-Ultra-D is going to make some major waves. The board design is top notch - putting the memory above the processor socket is a good idea as there is arguably more airflow there than on the far side of the board. DFI makes a concerted effort to get most of the cabling in a single spot. For those who put value into the aesthetics of their case and boards, the nF4 has a slick color theme that is not overly flashy until the blacklight is turned on at which point all the plastics start to glow. We liked the fact that a PCIe 4x slot was included along with two x16 and a single x1 which provides more flexibility when PCIe expansion cards hit the market en masse. Dual Xpress Graphics is a nice option for those that are not looking for SLI.
Another core strength of DFI's engineering prowess is the BIOS and the options available on the nF4 Ultra-D should make any enthusiast salivate. Those that like to tweak their memory in particular will have a field day. The number of memory adjustment options available is almost overwhelming. Voltage adjustments for the CPU is pretty unique. Besides the standard 0.0125 voltage stepping, DFI also has something an additional fine tuner if you will - a multiplier can be applied to the base voltage to fine tune the actual voltage fed to the CPU in even smaller increments. Here's a summary of some of the available BIOS settings:
FSB Bus Speed 200-456 Mhz in 1 Mhz increments
HyperTransport Ratio 1-3 in 0.5 steppings 3-5 in integer steppings
HyperTransport Bandwith 8/8, 16/8, 8/16, 16/16
CPU Multiplier Ratios 4 to CPU Max in 0.5 steppings
PCI Express Frequency 100-145Mhz in 1 Mhz steppings
CPU Voltage 0.800-1.550 in 0.0125v steppings; voltage multiplier settings 1.00, 1.04, 1.10, 1.13, 1.23, 1.26, 1.33, 1.36
HyperTransport Voltage 1.20v to 1.50v in 0.1v steppings
Chipset Voltage 1.5v to 1.8v in 0.1v steppings
DRAM Voltage 2.5v to 4.9v in 0.1v steppings
Memory Divider 1:2, 3:5, 2:3, 7:10, 3:4, 5:6, 9:10, 1:1
Command Per Clock On/Off
CAS Latency Control (TCL) 1.0-4.5 in 0.5 steppings
RAS Latency Control (TCL) 0-7 Bus Clocks
Min RAS active time (Tras) 0-15 Bus Clocks
Row Precharge Time (Trp) 0-7 Bus Clocks
le time (Trc) 7-22 Bus Clocks
Row Refresh Cycle Time (Trfc) 9-24 Bus Clocks
Row to Row Delay (Trrd) 0-7 Bus Clocks
Write Recover Time (Twr) 2-3 Bus Clocks
Write to Read Delay (Twtr) 1-2 Bus Clocks
Read to Write Delay (Trwt) 1-8 Bus Clocks
Refresh Period (Tref) 16-4708 Cycles; varied stepping size
Write CAS Latency (Twcl) 1-8 Bus Clocks
DRAM Bank Interleave On/Off
DQS Skew Control Increase/Decrease Skew
DQS Skew Value 0-255
DRAM Drive Strength Level 2-8
DRAM Data Drive Strength Level 1-4
Max Async Latency 1-15ns
Read Preamble Time 2-9.5ns in 0.5 ns steppings
Idle Cycle Limit 0-256 Cycles; stepping increments are double the previous value
Dynamic Counter Enable/Disable
R/W Queue Bypass 0,4,8,16
Bypass Max 0-7
32 Byte Granularity 4 or 8 Bursts
Fast, stable, great looks and phenomenal overclocking abilities (stable 365Mhz FSB on our review sample) are highlights of the LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D. It is hard to highlight all the positives about an excellent product without sounding too gushy but the nF4 Ultra-D is just that good. Definitely a must have for anyone serious about overclocking.
For more information, or to view the full review article, go to:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/dfinf4ultralp/
Product Details
LANPARTY UT Ultra-D exclusive features
* DXG(Dual Xpress Graphics) supported
* Karajan Audio(Theater like7.1 /8ch supported)
* Dual Gigabit LAN
* nVIDIA nVRAID
* nVIDIA nTune(embedded overclocking solution)
* nVIDIA ActiveArmor (Embedded hardware firewall & network solution)
* nF4 chipset supported Serial ATA(3Gb/s)
* 100% Japanese Capacitors
* UV sensitive slots
* EZ-on / EZ-touch onboard switch button
* CMOS reloaded
* All New Genie BIOS
Specifications
CPU
* AMD Athlon 64 FX / Athlon 64 / Sempron
* Socket 939
Chipset
* NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra
Front Side Bus
* 2000MT/s HyperTransport interface
Memory
* Four 184-pin DDR SDRAM DIMM sockets
* Supports dual channel (128-bit wide) memory interface
* Supports up to 4GB system memory
* Supports DDR266, DDR333 and DDR400 DDR SDRAM DIMM
BIOS
* Award BIOS
* CMOS Reloaded
* CPU/DRAM overclocking
* CPU/DRAM/Chipset overvoltage
* 4Mbit flash memory
Power Management
* Supports ACPI STR (Suspend to RAM) function
* Wake-On-Events include:
o Wake-On-PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse
o Wake-On-USB Keyboard/Mouse
o Wake-On-LAN
o RTC timer to power-on the system
* AC power failure recovery
Hardware Monitor
* Monitors CPU/system/chipset temperature
* Monitors 12V/5V/3.3V/Vcore/Vbat/5Vsb/Vchipset/Vdram voltages
* Monitors the speed of the CPU fan, Fan 2 and chipset fan
* CPU Overheat Protection function monitors CPU temperature during system boot-up
Audio
* Karajan audio module
o - Realtek ALC850 8-channel audio CODEC
o - 6 audio jacks
o - 1 CD-in connector
o - 1 front audio connector
* S/PDIF-in/out interface
LAN
* Dual Gigabit LAN - Vitesse VSC8201 Gigabit Phy and Marvell 88E8001 Gigabit PCI
* Fully compliant to IEEE 802.3 (10BASE-T), 802.3u (100BASE-TX) and
* 802.3ab (1000BASE-T) standards
IDE
* Two IDE connectors that allows connecting up to four UltraDMA 133Mbps hard drives
* NVIDIA RAID allows RAID arrays spanning across Serial ATA and Parallel ATA
* RAID 0 and RAID 1
Serial ATA with RAID
* Four Serial ATA ports
* SATA speed up to 3Gb/s
* RAID 0 and RAID 1
* NVIDIA RAID allows RAID arrays spanning across Serial ATA and Parallel ATA
IEEE 1394
* VIA VT6307
* Supports two 100/200/400 Mb/sec ports
Rear Panel I/O Ports
* 1 mini-DIN-6 PS/2 mouse port
* 1 mini-DIN-6 PS/2 keyboard port
* 2 S/PDIF RCA jacks (S/PDIF-in and S/PDIF-out)
* Karajan audio module (6 audio jacks)
* 1 IEEE 1394 port
* 2 RJ45 LAN ports
* 6 USB 2.0/1.1 ports
I/O Connectors
* 2 connectors for 4 additional external USB 2.0/1.1 ports
* 1 connector for 1 external IEEE 1394 port
* 1 connector for 1 external serial port
* 1 front audio connector for external line-out and mic-in jacks (on the Karajan audio module)
* 1 CD-in internal audio connector (on the Karajan audio module)
* 1 S/PDIF connector for optical cable connection
* 1 IR connector
* 4 Serial ATA connectors
* 2 IDE connectors
* 1 floppy connector
* 1 24-pin ATX power connector
* 1 4-pin ATX 12V power connector
* 2 4-pin 5V/12V power connectors (FDD-type and HDD type)
* 1 front panel connector
* 5 fan connectors
* 4 diagnostic LEDs
* EZ touch switches (power switch and reset switch)
Expansion Slots
* 2 PCI Express x16 slots
* 1 PCI Express x1 slot
* 1 PCI Express x4 slot
* 2 PCI slots
PCB
* ATX form factor
* 24cm (9.45") x 30.5cm (12")
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. May 2006 @ 21:22 |
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brobear,
the A8N32 had a lot of complaints concerning heat in it's reviews. Part of the reason I made the choice I made was the across the board 10C cooler running of this MB. Many reviewers bought the A8N SLI Premium after owning an A8N32. It should run quite a bit cooler than my present computer. I'll be using the same case and fan layout as I have now, as well as most of the same components. I suspect that the 92mm Thermatake fan in the front will not be needed with this MB. I added this a few months ago and it does help drop the temps a small amount. With the AMD Opteron 175 running much cooler than the Intel Prescott, the passive chipset cooling and the Zalman 9500, it should run very cool. And very fast!!!
I've got 3 paydays in June and everything will come together by mid-June. The plan is to order an Opteron 175 or a Athlon 64x2 4400+ at the end of may/beginning of June and the MB in mid-June. I'll still have a few odds and ends to purchase such as a video card but I'll have more than enough to cover it thanks to the extra payday!
crowy,
Maybe the number of refurbished motherboards was not a fair comparisum to make. Since we have no idea of the actual number of returns per model, it's redundant. Poor choice on my part! There is no doubt that the DFI board is feature laden but I have to doubt the usefullnes for my purposes. I don't game so most of it is window dressing to me. I want the A8N SLI Premium because a. It's an Asus and I've had great success with them. b. It has passive cooling for the chipset and runs considerably cooler than previous SLI models. It should be a lot quieter than a MB with 7 fans. d. It's the board Sophocles uses and his smokes!
Happy Computering,
theonejrs
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 21:48
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. May 2006 @ 21:26 |
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I particularly like this,
Fast, stable, great looks and phenomenal overclocking abilities (stable 365Mhz FSB on our review sample) are highlights of the LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D. It is hard to highlight all the positives about an excellent product without sounding too gushy but the nF4 Ultra-D is just that good. Definitely a must have for anyone serious about overclocking.
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crowy
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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3. May 2006 @ 21:46 |
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Sorry double post:-(
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. May 2006 @ 21:48
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vspede
Junior Member
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3. May 2006 @ 22:13 |
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I've owned 2 Asus board and I've loved them. Especially this one. Like you said, the Asus A8N-SLI has a crapload of features. If you wanted, you could have a total of 8 hard drives running on this mother board. 2 IDE, 6 SATA Ports = 8 Hard Drives. Not to mention a crapload of USB Ports for External Hard Drives, its insane. Gigabyte LAN is a plus too. THe board itself doesnt seem to run hot. Everything is super cool from my standpoint and you can't beat the features. It also has Firewire Port, but I don't know what the hell that is so I disabled it.
Anyways don't be worried about Asus in terms of quality. I agree with the last post that a lot of people buy Asus who don't know much and screw up their build. Hell, when I built my first computer I was nervous as hell too.
I'm probably the only guy you know who builds a new computer from scratch completely naked because I'm paranoid of Static Electricity frying something, lol.
But seriously, Asus rocks.
Friends will help you move.
Real Friends will help you move the bodies...
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aabbccdd
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3. May 2006 @ 23:38 |
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sorry guys havent been around for a few days my IE got highjacked and it took me 3 nights to get it worked out ,man it was a mess thought i was going to have to reformat but i was able to fix it in safe mode with spysweeper theres an option in there to reset your IE and it seemed to work from there i cleaned the system totaly out and iam back it business lol. anyway sammorris have you heard what kind of price drop AMD is going to have in June iam opting for the AMD Opteron 175 Denmark mid june also, maybe we can OC together theonejrs and see how we come out iam set on everything else system wise maybe a different fan setup
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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4. May 2006 @ 02:52 |
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@theonejrs
I think you are making a wise choice of M/B's with that one!
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