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Intel vs. AMD
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PacMan777
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14. April 2007 @ 18:55 |
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chop
You really can't compare stock to OC or vice versa. Compare stock to stock and OC to OC. After all, if I OC a E6600 to perform in the range of an X6800, then I can OC an X6800 to... You should get the idea. THe C2D has much more potential than the AMD. At stock, for comparable processors, the C2D still holds the edge. Don't get lost in the bench racing and speed of the processor. Go back and look at what AMD did and why Intel had to seek new technology other than NetBurst. The Netburst was fast and could spin the cycles. AMD simply got more done per cycle and set Intel on its ear. Intel's new processors run slower and cooler and get a lot more done. Then... on top of that, you can easily speed it up.
Good boards nowadays often include software that will overclock the system without going into the BIOS and changing settings as you often read of ehthusiasts doing. With the software you can take an E6600 and smoke most AMDs. An analogy would be changing the ignition system for a smallblock and blowing the big hemis off the track. I'm talking E6600 in comparison to the X2 6000 because both are more upscale. Note the additional cache on the E6600. That's more important in the real world. Most people who don't understand the C2D can't understand how it can be so much better than an AMD. Take a look back when AMD came out with the dual core with hypertransport and that was compared to a P4.
theonejrs told you what he did with a E4300. 3GHz was accomplished. Mort81 took his E6600 up to 3.6GHz. Build properly and 3.0GHz with an E6600 should leave enough headroom that you don't have the CPU straining and it can be used as a workhorse doing encoding or whatever. If you can engage Kivory666 (aka DocTy) in a conversation on building C2Ds, you can learn first hand from one of the known builders who have pushed the limits and know what they're doing. BigDK has impressed me on this thread, so I'd advise you to listen to his comments on the subject of building C2D systems. I don't know a lot about Mort81's computer skills, but he has but together a good system. It's new tech but not cutting edge. I would have put in a more upscale GPU, but things like that develop from need as well as budget. The one he has is good and only a bit dated. But not getting caught on little items, the overall build is sound and fits in most budgets. It's a true workhorse at settings well above stock, but below it's limits. You could learn from his experience with that. You wouldn't want to listen to me, I'm an AMD fan. LOL In truth I appreciate the advancements of both companies. It just happens that Intel is at a stage where their technology is ahead of AMD. AMD enjoyed the same situation for a few years. I didn't recommend Intel P4s over AMD dual cores and I'm not going to recommend the current AMD dual cores over Intel's C2D technology.
Intel is building a line of processors on the new technology. With prices the way they are, the E6600 is probably the least expensive with the larger cache that I prefer. It sells for about $60 US above the X2 6000. That's 60 dollars well spent for what a person gets in return. If $60 is going to break the budget, I advise you quit now.
I'm not trying to sell you a C2D. If it's an AMD you want, they're good processors. The X2 6000 is more processor than most people need or have a use for. I'm sure you'll be happy with it, except for the ribbing from C2D owners. Just be aware that C2D has more potential and does as well or better at stock.
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So PacMan777 would you say that bringing the E6600 to atleast 3Ghz a modest and fairly simple overclock?
I'd say so and Mort81 and others have exceeded that with stable platforms.
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14. April 2007 @ 19:24 |
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PacMan,
Quote:
I would have put in a more upscale GPU, but things like that develop from need as well as budget. The one he has is good and only a bit dated.
I'm not a gamer and the one I have is more than adequate for my needs and better than average. it was a top performer just a generation or two back and at the time I was building it performed about the best for what I wanted to spend on a GPU ($165). the main reason I built this rig is for video encoding and viewing. I was also on somewhat of a budget when I was building. I spent the $ were it would benefit me the most for my needs (cpu, ram, mobo).
chop2113,
Quote:
So PacMan777 would you say that bringing the E6600 to atleast 3Ghz a modest and fairly simple overclock?
very modest and simple OC with the 1st generation E6600's. it won't even know it's OC'ed. 3.4ghz is very obtainable. 3.6ghz is pushing it a bit on air imo but still obtainable with a good hsf. I've heard the new C2D's are not as OC friendly but I would think 3.0 or 3.2 would still be obtainable unless they made some major changes.
I have a notebook pc with an intel 1.66ghz C2D and it is as fast and maybe a little faster than my old desktop pc with an intel P4 3.4ghz. cpu.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. April 2007 @ 20:52
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15. April 2007 @ 07:20 |
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http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=6584
available in the uk from monday. not seen any thing to show how well it performs but going by how it seems the hd2900xt is doing vs the 8800gtx i would geuss the 86 will be better than its ati counterpart in dx9 but not in dx10.
gt version on sale now.
http://www.advancetec.co.uk/acatalog/info%5f1304078%2ehtml
edit
on the oc vs stock front. its not a good way to try and assertain performce comparisons but its a good way to explain how much more performance you can get from the budget chips.
eg, my 4300 is running at +87% has no context but when you say its performing like a x6800 which costs seven times as much it puts it into a context that most people can understand. its not saying its greater than or that the 6800 wont go higher.
as for the extra cache making all the difference, i cant give any comparisons with the c2d yet but with my last set up i have mow played with 3 dif cpus with 128, 256 and 512 mb (amd single core) and the difference was wiped out by about 200mhz of clock speed in most benches.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. April 2007 @ 13:42
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15. April 2007 @ 14:59 |
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Ok thats what i was talking about. You guys give good opinions and information now i have made a choice. And yes I am an AMD fan but from what i read and heard here it would be a better choice to go with the intel at the moment till AMD does better.I will also learn how to overclock the intel . Be prepared to get ?'s from me when i cant understand some of the tech jargon. I do this not because you all gave great reviews but bcause im one that likes to get to know how things work and the different things that can be done. And being a racing enthusiast and beefing up car motors. i think i will enjoy learning this very much.Ill will be going with the intel E6600. Once i have all the parts ill will get into it with you guys and and have you guide me. Im your loyal apprentice jedi masters.. Teach me the way of the force lol but for real thanxs alot guys.good stuff...
Case=Antec Lanboy, Psu=Corsair HX620, Mobo=GA-X58A-UD5,Ram=Gskill 1600Mhz 3x2gigs,Cpu=I7 950 4Ghz,Cpu Cooler= EK 240 Water Kit,Gpu=HD6870x2,Eyefinity Set up,Ssd=Gskill Phoenix Pro 120gb
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. April 2007 @ 15:02
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15. April 2007 @ 15:42 |
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marsey99,
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its not saying its greater than or that the 6800 wont go higher.
From what I've read in various overclocking forums, the EX E6800 doesn't have very much headroom when it comes to overclocking, at least on air which leads me to believe that it's temperature limits are about the same as the good E4300s through the EX E6800 lineup. They are all supposed to be the same cores anyway with better binning and stepping on the higher end ones, so it makes sense! I've been real pleased with the E4300/P5N-E build for Gina and now I have to concentrate on getting one for me. If I can find a used E6300 for a decent price, I may use one of those instead of the 4300 just for the additional 2 MB of cache. I'll be ready to buy before the week is over!
Happy Computering,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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15. April 2007 @ 15:58 |
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Russ,
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If I can find a used E6300 for a decent price, I may use one of those instead of the 4300 just for the additional 2 MB of cache.
Why not an E6400 instead of E6300?
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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15. April 2007 @ 16:02 |
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marsey99,
Quote:
Why not an E6400 instead of E6300?
My brain wasn't working as the E6300 & E6400 only have 2 MB of cache. An E6400 would be great! If you know of one PM me please! Someone told me they might have one for sale but I can't remember who!
Sincerely,
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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15. April 2007 @ 17:18 |
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they all seem to be able to around the same clocks (3.5/4ghz) with the right componants on air but to stay there over time or go any higher the cooling does need to be more advanced than just air
its funny you should metion the cooling as intel have relased a qx6800 but, and heres the thing, they have only done 2500 all es (engineering/evaluation samples) which they are only selling to known high end oem makers. who also need to water cool them as they have a 135tdp and the best air coolers (i think) can only handle 120tdp.
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aabbccdd
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15. April 2007 @ 18:43 |
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isn't there going to be a Intel price cut in the next few months on CPUs ?
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PacMan777
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15. April 2007 @ 20:37 |
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Originally posted by chop2113:
Ok thats what i was talking about. You guys give good opinions and information now i have made a choice. And yes I am an AMD fan but from what i read and heard here it would be a better choice to go with the intel at the moment till AMD does better.I will also learn how to overclock the intel . Be prepared to get ?'s from me when i cant understand some of the tech jargon. I do this not because you all gave great reviews but bcause im one that likes to get to know how things work and the different things that can be done. And being a racing enthusiast and beefing up car motors. i think i will enjoy learning this very much.Ill will be going with the intel E6600. Once i have all the parts ill will get into it with you guys and and have you guide me. Im your loyal apprentice jedi masters.. Teach me the way of the force lol but for real thanxs alot guys.good stuff...
I don't think you'll be sorry with the decision. Also don't second guess yourself down the road a few months if something better comes along. We build the best we can with what we have available at the time. If Intel fans had been holding out from when AMD first grabbed the performance lead, it would have been a long wait until C2D showed up.
Several of the members here have built with the C2Ds and swear by them. Some of them also AMD fans. Now that you've picked a good CPU, what are you looking at for a graphics card. That can affect your decision on the motherboard you want to use. This is the point to decide if you might be putting together a dual GPU setup later. That depends to whether you or family members are into gaming or need that much power. Gigabyte and Asus are some favorites mobos. Experienced builders like them and they're safe enough for beginners. LanParty works, but I don't recommend them for beginners.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. April 2007 @ 20:39
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16. April 2007 @ 07:50 |
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that link to the 8600gt is now shown as a gts.
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3 product reviews
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16. April 2007 @ 07:55 |
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The E6320 E6420 are now shipping, both have the 4MB of cache and are the same price or cheaper than the E6300 etc...
Also the E4400 is due any day now.
Q3 the Intel Core 2 Duo (Wolfdale) desktop CPU is due for release.
It will have 6MB of shared L2 cache running on a 45nm process and is expected to have clock speeds of up to 4Ghz and can run on a 1333Mhz or 1066Mhz FSB speed.
Stick one of those on an X38 chipset board with DDR3 memory and bang, we're looking at making what we have now being made to look very ordinary already.
Looking at the road mapped offerings in the pipeline from Intel and AMD, it seems that far better offerings are coming from Intel at least for the next year.
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PacMan777
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16. April 2007 @ 08:36 |
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"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."
That's how it feels sometimes with the new processors. Just when you think you've gotten over the urge for a new PC, they draw you back with a new offering. The Wolfdale sounds like a real beast.
BigDK,
Is the Wolfdale going to be affordable or another of the high end toys we dream about?
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3 product reviews
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16. April 2007 @ 12:00 |
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I haven't seen any pricing yet, but I imagine that it will be a like for like with the present chips.
The Wolfdale will be out just after the Yorkfield which is the same design other than quad core and a total of 12MB cache.
If you expect to pay about £200 upwards then you will probably be in the right area.
Intel are also bringing out a whole new range of cheaper chips as well, the E2000 range and the new Celeron 400 series, so hopefully with more choice, the prices should be kept down a bit.
I'm going to hang on until early next year for my next main build, as all the parts should be out by then.
My next big purchase should be the Radeon HD 2600 XT if it performs as hoped.
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16. April 2007 @ 12:51 |
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Alright, I've decided to finally get a C2D when the X2800/X2900 comes out on newegg(or is it already?) I have $1400 in my account so I'm gonna be safe to assume I can afford it :)
Going on the fact I have a job and I put away my money every week it'll build back up in a few months at about $150 a week. My A+ certificate finally came in this week so I'm gonna try to get a tech support or repair job.
What C2D Processor should I get and what OC should I expect?
I have the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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PacMan777
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16. April 2007 @ 14:26 |
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With the budget you have you can easily afford one of the mid level C2Ds and still have the reserve for quality components for the rest of the build. Over all stability requires all the parts working together in a stable environment. You've got the papers, so you know all that. ;) I like the larger cache processors with higher native speeds for the initial starting point for overclocking. The Wolfdale BigDK mentioned might be worth waiting for, that is if you're not in a big hurry.
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16. April 2007 @ 16:16 |
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Back from my travels, and over a week of posts to catch up with. Ouch.
A long time ago, but dazila, a 9700XT? I never knew such a thing existed!
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I know it won't be quiet by Sam's standards, but then again, not much is! LOL!!
Lol indeed, but I do agree with you on what an amazing difference a few rpms makes with the freezer, it's an odd
cooler in that respect.
$60??? I paid £12 for my Freezer 7 Pro! That's obscene, by US prices that should be less than $20, not 60. Disgusting.
Estuansis: Sorry mate, but PCI-X is NOT PCI express. that would be PCIe. You won't find a PCI-X slot on many boards these days.
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16. April 2007 @ 17:43 |
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huh? I dont get it. What is PCI-X then?
And the system is already together. Check my profile. I've got an X850XT in it and a P4 640 OC@ 3.6GHz. I'm looking into maybe an e6600 and an X2800XT if it exists.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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16. April 2007 @ 17:49 |
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Looking for a good Intel bargain? How about an Intel E4300 with the good performance for only $139 with free shipping? newegg has the last of the good ones. when they're gone, that's it. No more free ride. I'm ordering mine tomorrow! I checked with someone I know works there and he confirmed it!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013
Get them while they are hot! LOL!!
theone
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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16. April 2007 @ 17:51 |
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double post
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2007 @ 17:51
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16. April 2007 @ 20:19 |
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daamit (amd/ati) have changed the prefix on the next gen of cards, it seems they are going to be hd-xxxx-pro/xtx/xtx2. the thing is as with everything at this time all the info has been leaked from under a nda so it could all be bs yet.
some people are saying that the top cards will be 2800 so they can later release a 2900, some are saying its going to be the 2900 off the bat. there was benches showing them going 10% over the 88gtx now more have appeared since showing the opposit for dx9 based stuff but they then go on to show them being better than the 88gtx in the dx10 crysis demo. truth is those that know something arent allowed to say and we will have to wait till next month at the earliest it seems.
we should start seeing some solid reviews of the 8600gts this week as they are now on sale here, any one like to hazard a guess as to its performance point? my moneys in and around the 7950's but with its dx10 goodies as the sweetener.
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17. April 2007 @ 01:40 |
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Even if the card is a bit faster in DX10, to have waited an unnecessary, well it will be 6 months, paid more, and to use more power, for a slower graphics card is just nuts. If that's true I'm getting an nVidia card, that's a real poor showing.
PCI-X was a high bandwidth version of the standard PCI slot, they used a while back for things like High bandwidth network cards.
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17. April 2007 @ 04:33 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
What C2D Processor should I get and what OC should I expect?
well it will depend on your luck with the cpu you get but if your using your ballistix ram i would say 2.7/3ghz plus whaterver you can oc your ram too. you will need to get a oc friendly mobo too, but you already have one in mind i would guess :)
edit
some 8600gts dx9 comparisons.
not bad realy, dx10 for £150.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. April 2007 @ 04:42
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17. April 2007 @ 04:40 |
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I wouldn't recommend the E4300 over the E6600.
The prices of the E6600 have come down so they are only £70 more than the E4300.
If I run both chips at 3.6 GHz then the difference in performance is still in favour of the E6600.
I would still not recommend the E4300 over the newer E6320 or E6420, even with the lower mutlipliers that they have, unless you are looking at producing benchmark scores for CPU speed, the extra cache would still make the E6000 series a better bet for real world applications.
It still looks as though £4£ to best bet out of the current range is the E6600 CPU as it gives the best ratio of clock speed and cache out of any of the CPUs.
As Pacman has said already, it doesn't matter what CPU you get if the other components aren't matched to the intended result.
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17. April 2007 @ 04:50 |
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as much as it pains me to say mine isnt the best in the world (lol) if my budget had allowed i would of gone for one with 4mb of cache. as it was the £70 extra almost paid for my mobo.
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