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The (new) Official PC building thread!
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 07:21 |
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It all depends what you consider 'high end' to be. I consider high end something that is positioned in the upper sector o the market, but not the best you can buy - that in my mind fit the HD3870 perfectly until the latest gen stuff came out. No matter what card you bought (ignoring dual setups) you wouldn't see performance more than 50% above it, and these cards used anything from 130 to 190W in the case of the 8800 Ultra. To have something 'high end' you didn't need absurd power consumption. Let's look at things now - the 'high end' consists of the HD4850 (130W), HD4870 (160W) and GTX260 (190W). I declare the latter all but pointless because the HD4870 typically beats it, and not only does it use far less power, it also costs less to start with. This leaves the GTX280 in its 'top end' situation, again with a relatively minor performance boost over the 'high end' cards - to the extent that any of them in a dual config will handily beat it. So what then if it uses 250W? Given the fact that the technology doesn't exist to cool a card that has a power consumption much higher than that in one slot, it will never have a dual card counterpart until its power consumption islowered, so to all intents and purposes (power consumption, lack of a dual-based card, prohibitive cost) it might as well be a dual card, but without the compatibility issues.
You raise the argument of the Quad core CPU as if it's such a huge boost - being 95W stock. Given that X2s ran at 90W, and people still overclocked those just as frequently (if not with quite the same gain) as they do with quads now, what's changed?
I don't for a moment think I can or should divert what you buy if you don't agree, it's your money, your choice. Simple fact is though, I understand entirely why you'd go with a 650W PSU for future upgrade reasons, but a 750 just seems a bit nuts. Whilst it is true that with smaller die size technology, the relative power consumption of components has risen, with the exception of cards like the GTX280, nothing much has changed since a couple of years ago with regard to how much power components use based on what sort position they have in the market. The top performing CPU uses around 100W, the top performing graphics card around 150 (again with the exception of the GTX280). Anyone remember the Pentium D?
Adding yet another line to Soph, I've known him for a few years now I think, since back when he was originally posting at aD, and I have learnt a great many things from him. If I remember, it was typically me, Theone and Soph along with other migrants Brobear and Donald who were posting here on a regular basis. Anyone else I've forgotten?
Xevlys: It all depends what sort of games you think you're likely to be playing on the PC. Some games barely need any decent graphics card, whereas others can be quite demanding, and they may just be the one game you play on the PC for a significant time. HD4850s can be had for a little under 200 now. Perhaps consider an HD3870 for a cheaper solution, I think the HIS versions of those are about 130 now.
Icemen: Has your PC been modified at all, or did this happen all of a sudden? If you have made any modifications Check the CPU power connector is securely attached (the small 2x2 one with yellow and black wires). You might also try reseating your RAM.
Loco: Out of pure curiosity, why would you have preferred to use a DFI board?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2008 @ 07:24
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5. July 2008 @ 08:10 |
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sammorris : No my PC has had no modifications, it just happened all of a sudden, When i put it on it's like the computer is booting up but the screen stays blank & nothing happens
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 08:15 |
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Try reseating the memory or only using one stick.
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5. July 2008 @ 08:15 |
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All right, heres what i think im gonna end up going with, I chose a graphics card that i think will be sufficient for what i need, but still leave my options open should i take PC gaming more seriously in the furtue. As for the RAM, i need some extra for once, too sick of not having enough >.< i also decided what the hack, for $4 more might as well get the extra burner.
$200 CPU- Intel Core 2 Quad 6600
$120 Mobo- Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R
$136 RAM- Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) 1066 (Ive always had issues with not enough RAM for my entire life so for once, i want some extra lol...)
$150 GPU- Sapphire 100225L Radeon HD3870
$80 HDD- Western Digital 500GB (same)
$70 Case- Cooler Master 590
$120 PSU- Corsair 520W HX
$31 ODD- Pioneer 215DBK (BK=black i think and everything else is black so....)
$24 ODD- NEC 7200S (i guess itd be good to have just incase and it is only $4 more...)
~200$ Monitor- Gonna try and buy in person so i can see the screen and such first.
~1131 final cost - about $90-100 in rebates i believe, of course some of that will go to cover shipping.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone, i really appreciate all of it. Before i go and set my self to buying all these parts, any final thoughts/things that jump out that could potentially cause issues? Is it a decent overall build for the price? I guess im just looking for some final assurance before i go and spend all of this money lol....
"Religion is the opium of the masses" - Karl Marx
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 08:27 |
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5. July 2008 @ 08:30 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Try reseating the memory or only using one stick.
i don't know how to reset the memory but i'll pull one of the sicks out & try that, it's only a 512 memory in there anyway, but why will this give me a black screen?
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 08:35 |
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Reseat only means to pull out and put back....
You probably have a black screen because your PC isn't actually booting - the fans would still run regardless even if the system wasn't doing anything.
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5. July 2008 @ 08:50 |
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"Religion is the opium of the masses" - Karl Marx
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 08:54 |
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You'll always find bad reviews of products on newegg, most people don't review a product unless it went wrong, and those who do are usually idiots anyway. HIS are a high quality brand as long as you avoid their pre-overclocked cards, which goes for any manufacturer really.
Of the Asus cards, TOP means overclocked, so avoid it. I have the exact card in the first link, and it's excellent - very quiet, and a reliable performer.
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5. July 2008 @ 08:58 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
You'll always find bad reviews of products on newegg, most people don't review a product unless it went wrong, and those who do are usually idiots anyway. HIS are a high quality brand as long as you avoid their pre-overclocked cards, which goes for any manufacturer really.
Of the Asus cards, TOP means overclocked, so avoid it. I have the exact card in the first link, and it's excellent - very quiet, and a reliable performer.
lol ok, sounds good to me, that also makes more sense with the Asus,
When you say first link, do you mean the HIS or the first Asus link i gave?
"Religion is the opium of the masses" - Karl Marx
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 09:00 |
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The first Asus, the one that's not overclocked.
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5. July 2008 @ 09:13 |
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I think ill go with the Asus then since it sounds like its doin great for you :D
ok, once again slightly revised >_>
$200 CPU- Intel Core 2 Quad 6600
$120 Mobo- Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R
$136 RAM- Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) 1066
$145 GPU- Asus EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870
$80 HDD- Western Digital 500GB
$70 Case- Cooler Master 590
$120 PSU- Corsair 520W HX
$31 ODD- Pioneer 215DBK
$24 ODD- NEC 7200S
~200$ Monitor- Gonna try and buy in person so i can see the screen and such first.
~1126 final cost - about $90-100 in rebates i believe, of course some of that will go to cover shipping.
Once again thanks for all the help :D, lookin forward to any feedback regarding it, i think ive got it to just about what i need, its looking very nice in my eyes, but it is a lot of money for me to spend x.x so lemme know if you see any issues. i dont think ill need to cut the price anymore, just wanna make sure everything is of at least decent quality before i buy it. Afterdawn continues to be awesome :o
edit: fixed typo
"Religion is the opium of the masses" - Karl Marx
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2008 @ 09:14
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. July 2008 @ 09:30 |
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IMO pre OCed cards are perfectly fine, its just as if you were to OC your self, and normally its a few MHz, it wont make much of a difference, but every little helps in crymark2007 (also known as crysis)
actually, IICR the 4870 has quiet a high idle and laod power consumption, comes close to the GTX280.
the GTX2800 is a single GPU card. you cant jsut call it a dual card just becuase of cooling, that has nothing to do with it. im sure with the 55nm refresh, it probably will be allowed to do a dual card configuration.
i do rasie the Qcores, but i didnt not say they were a huge boost. but its obvious as more and more cores are added, even with a smaller proccess, more and more power will be needed. so it takes 5W over the dual, btu its procces is smaller, and the Q is not clocked high. but to most of us gamer, 2.4GHz aint enough, atleast 3GHz is needed so the CPU is not a bottleneck, and then we OC it. which increaces to power consumption alot.
one cannot deny that the powerconsumption for compontents (esp for gamers/ocers) is increacing. therefore, instead of spending more money on a PSU every build, or if i want to expand into multiple gfx card offerings (which is most likely with the xfire 4 series scaling), id rather spend an extra now and knwo that i wont need to upgrade.
and ok as you say, so a system only need 400W so oen goes and buys a 500W PSU, thats not how it works. you need to look at amperage onthe rails, (esp 12V) efficiency, stability, ETC. just becuase the ultra and a Qcore uses 300W does not mean we can go and buy the next 350W PSU and expect it to run.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 09:51 |
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I've no idea where you're getting those figures from, the TDP of the HD4870 is a good 100W below that of the GTX280. It's idle power consumption, is however much higher than the GTX280 which is disappointing, but doesn't change anything with regard to what sort of PSU you need.
I'm well aware the GTX280 is a single GPU, but given its still vast cost, it occupies the same position in the market as the dual cards do.
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
and then we OC it. which increaces to power consumption alot.
20%? I wouldn't consider that vast in the grand scheme of things, that's all that was needed to take my 1.8Ghz duo to 3.15Ghz, and given that you rarely seem to need to up the vcore to get a quad to 3Ghz, the same or less should apply there.
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
and ok as you say, so a system only need 400W so oen goes and buys a 500W PSU, thats not how it works. you need to look at amperage onthe rails, (esp 12V) efficiency, stability, ETC. just becuase the ultra and a Qcore uses 300W does not mean we can go and buy the next 350W PSU and expect it to run.
Very true, but there's a difference between running a 300W PC on a 350W system and running a 400W system on a 750W PSU, because that's all a CF4870 system will use. Remember what goes into a power supply is more than what comes out.
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1 product review
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5. July 2008 @ 10:04 |
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Quote:
Loco: Out of pure curiosity, why would you have preferred to use a DFI board?
Just something different really. Everyone is getting Gigabyte as a suggestion and it would be nice to see someone with a slightly different setup here at AD rather than the same old config and recommendations time after time. I think I may still be having some issues with the networking, but it could still just be on the ISP's end. And TBH, I'm too lazy to really track it down right now. There is an obvious bottleneck somewhere that drags my connection down whether running uTorrent or not, my connection is spotty at best and the wi-fi speed on the laptop is terrible. I know it's not all down to the mobo and could be 101 different things, but the original RMA for the mobo problem was a bad network card and I'm wondering if it might be more of the same. I'm on my third modem from the ISP and second router so that leaves me looking at the card. Whenever the phone rings the DSL drops too and I'm on my second set of filters as well.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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5. July 2008 @ 10:06 |
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iceman
When you turn on your PC do you hear any beeping noises?
Quote:
IMO pre OCed cards are perfectly fine, its just as if you were to OC your self
Actually they're even better because the manufacturer usually improves its cooling and will warranty them if they failed.
Quote:
one cannot deny that the powerconsumption for compontents (esp for gamers/ocers) is increacing. therefore, instead of spending more money on a PSU every build
Sam
Are you two still harping on the power supply debate and graphics card debate. LOL
A favorite line of mine is that everyone is right in their own minds so neither of you are likely to convince the other of anything.
I get the point that you're trying to make but it apparently doesn't apply to shaffaaf. He is past looking for advice and he is probably right when one considers the things that he might be doing with his system down the road.
shaffaaf
Get yourself a highly efficient monster power supply and never look back.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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5. July 2008 @ 10:12 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Reseat only means to pull out and put back....
You probably have a black screen because your PC isn't actually booting - the fans would still run regardless even if the system wasn't doing anything.
what does that mean then? how can i fix this?
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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5. July 2008 @ 10:20 |
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icemen
Do you hear any beeping noises or any other sounds when you try to boot up?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2008 @ 10:27
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 10:30 |
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Soph: I think a guy at my LAN summed it up, when I asked him why he had a 750W PSU for a Q9450 and a single 8800GTS G92, his response was "because I could". I used a 750W PSU for over a year, so I'm as guilty as anyone, but after using it for all that time and never drawing more than 350W off it, I realised what a terrible waste of money it was and sold it.
I realise shaffaaf is convinced all gaming PCs will be drawing 600+ watts in a couple of years time and that I'm not going to change his mind. I should learn really from last time, me going on and on about how I was convinced you could run two 3870s off a 520W PSU with no repercussions. People thought I was mad - that was a laugh...
Loco: It's a fair point, they're getting pretty common around here, not without good reason though. Does your house have a sky digibox (or similar that can be hooked to the phone line) or a Burglar Alarm? Those also need filtering to prevent DSL dropouts, and if you're having dropouts, I think it's a bit premature to blame poor connection on your network card.
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1 product review
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5. July 2008 @ 10:42 |
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Quote:
Loco: It's a fair point, they're getting pretty common around here, not without good reason though. Does your house have a sky digibox (or similar that can be hooked to the phone line) or a Burglar Alarm? Those also need filtering to prevent DSL dropouts, and if you're having dropouts, I think it's a bit premature to blame poor connection on your network card.
No, internet is DSL and TV is cable. I didn't have problems with "this" connection until the new build and like I've said three modems, two routers and multiple phone line filters have been tried.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 10:44 |
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Oh I see. Hmm, Give a cheap PCI network card a try then perhaps? I don't know, I've had severe networking issues in the past, but they were caused by a hack for windows genuine advantage, not hardware.
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5. July 2008 @ 10:46 |
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Originally posted by Sophocles:
icemen
Do you hear any beeping noises or any other sounds when you try to boot up?
no beeping sounds just the sound of the fan like it's booting up
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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5. July 2008 @ 10:48 |
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Quote:
the sound of the fan like it's booting up
Not implied unfortunately.
Have you reseated the RAM?
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5. July 2008 @ 10:53 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Quote:
the sound of the fan like it's booting up
Not implied unfortunately.
Have you reseated the RAM?
yes, still no joy
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5. July 2008 @ 10:59 |
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LOCOENG,
Quote:
I'm on my third modem from the ISP and second router so that leaves me looking at the card. Whenever the phone rings the DSL drops too and I'm on my second set of filters as well.
I've had that problem twice now. The first time the Idiot repairman put a line trap across the lines to eliminate radio interference! Slowed it to a crawl! I went out and removed it and it worked fine. I also tightened the connections in the box on the side of the house and the radio interference went completely away! A few months ago we suddenly were getting about a 4th of the bandwidth and the performance really stunk! They actually sent a repairman that knew what he was doing and replaced the whole down lead! Just a hair below 3Mbps now! The repairman said that someone broke the gasket on the box on the pole and it was all wet and corroded inside. He replaced the box as well! Been working great ever since!
The giveaway is the drop in DSL performance when the phone rings. Our's would kick you off line when the phone rang! I doubt very much if it's the lan! Here's a speed checker to try and see what your line is doing. Test it with and without the phone connected!
http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2008 @ 11:16
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