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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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25. July 2009 @ 22:37 |
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Try Crysis. It has a 64 bit mode and it USES it. Your main limit on 64 bit is going to be your RAM. 64 bit really basically means you can use more RAM.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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26. July 2009 @ 17:12 |
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Hey guys, speaking of 64 bit as in estuansis and nav, can you guys help me out? It's a little off topic but I'm helping my brother, Joe, who is wondering what his Vista Cad/Cam bottleneck is.
He dropped by last night and told me he might be thinking about building his own PC from scratch.
He does Cad/Cam for a giant construction company - he actually is a carpenter (drywall guy) but has a degree in math from UCLA and kind of talked his way into the office out of the "field" and then picked up the cad stuff on his own - he's a Mac guy from way back but is getting into PCs 'cause all the software they use is PC-based.
Anyway, he just picked up a $1700 Vista machine from Fry's - a quad 2.66 Phenom, 8 gigs ram, and a 3650 with 512mb vram, plus 750gig sata drive, and 22" monitor, because the hardware his company gave him to learn this stuff and crank out the blueprints for the field, is too slow.
So - here's the problem:
He dropped by last night and I said "How's the new cad/cam stuff?" He said, "I'm learning like crazy - I just discovered this paper space setting that gives you the printout view, and I can add the company logo et al to all the stuff - BUT I THINK I HAVE A VIDEO CARD BOTTLENECK."
I asked about his equipment, and if he had phenom 1, or 2. He said probably only phenom 1 - so he started asking me about the i7 920, and I told him about the d0 stepping.
BOTTLENECK
Anyway, he is running vista, has 8 gigs ram, and as he adds and adds to a drawing, he watches the [task manager?] increase ram usage to 3.7, 3.8 - and he knows a "refresh" is going to occur, where the cad/cam program redraws the entire screen. When that starts, he can go get a cup of coffee - it takes 2 minutes, and is driving him nuts.
1. He says it can't be cpu - because the [task manager? - I don't know vista] shows only 29% cpu usage
2. He says it can't be memory, because [it] shows not using over 4 gigs and he has 8 gigs of ram (but is vista limited to not more than 4 gigs per task - like xp can't handle more than 2 gigs per task?)
3. So he says it's his video card.
I said "No, your video card can't be the problem on that two minute refresh. It's your processing power."
But neither of us can figure out why the cpu usage would only be 29%, if the problem is that his phenom is too slow.
Another thing it sounded like to me was the hard drive access - I told him that he is going to be using paging file space no matter how much ram he has, if vista is like xp. Then we started wondering about Vista's use of ram, because he has never seen the system use over 4 gigs. In terms of disk access, he said "Well, maybe that Raid0 you were talking about, Rich, would help me out."
I am trying to google for some idea as to what kind of a PC is best suited for cad/cam, and what might be his bottleneck - any help you guys can give, Sam, Jeff, Shaff, Kevin, Nav, Keith would be much appreciated.
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2009 @ 17:45 |
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A 2.66Ghz Phenom sounds like a 9950, which will be slow as a dog. A core 2 quad will be a much better bet, an i7 even better. I can't believe he paid $1700 for such an outdated machine.
29% CPU usage suggests the application is single threaded, in which case that CPU will be very slow indeed.
GPUZ can tell you the GPU usage.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2009 @ 17:58 |
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cad/cam is 3d modleing right?
IICR the best for that would be nvidias quadro gfx cards.
an i7 will be VERY VERY helpfull. liek winrar, it doesnt show 100% usage on my dual core, but its still slower vs my 3.91GHz Q9550.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2009 @ 17:59 |
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A quadrofx or firegl card would be much better suited, IF the program he's using supports them.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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26. July 2009 @ 18:02 |
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I agree with sam. The Phenom 9950 is pretty slow, and limited from what i've read. I had the same thought sam. 1700$ is pretty steep for outdated equipment. I also had the same thought about only utilizing one core. I have multiple programs that only utilize one core. And will show between 26-29% cpu usage. But on the phenomII that single core is usually extremely quick. :D
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2009 @ 18:10 |
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ahh yes, what program is he using btw?
is it propietry?
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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26. July 2009 @ 18:18 |
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Proprietary? You mean a program written CHIEFLY for themselves, and not for the mass population?
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2009 @ 18:22 |
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aye :)
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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26. July 2009 @ 18:28 |
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I can't wait til I can do some basic programming. I have some ideas that seem plausible, but since I don't even have some basic programming skills...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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26. July 2009 @ 22:40 |
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Hey guys, thanks for the help.
The program is Auto Cad.
It looks like the correct numbers were he spent about $1300 for the whole thing - still got ripped off - although it included a monitor. Why he didn't consult me - I don't know.
Sam and Shaff - the discussion of the quadro fx and the firegl cards was quite interesting - I learned a bunch especially going out on google - I thought gaming cards were the high end - pro cards are 5 to 10 times more expensive for a very similar card with a specialized set of drivers.
The cards are optimized in terms of drivers that specialize in cad applications - open gl support - kind of a different type of dx 10.3 - the cad version.
Originally posted by Tom's hardware:
Attentive readers probably know already that there's little difference between the graphics processors you find in workstation graphics cards versus what you'll find in consumer graphics cards for gaming, especially in the high-end segment. The major differences that separate these two hardware categories come from their drivers and the level of technical support offered.
Another forum guy had this to say:
Quote:
The pro (Quadro, FireGL) drivers allow for more control over certain settings in CAD apps, and are geared to accelerate OpenGL pro apps instead of games. The last time I read a review with a gaming card vs. its pro counterpart playing a game, the pro drivers tended to accelerate games slower than the consumer drivers, and the pro drivers tended to accelerate CAD apps much faster than consumer drivers.
So guys, let me ask, in case he declines to fork out $1200 for a pro ati card, or $1500 to $3000 for a pro nvidia card, what single gpu solution should he go for - the gtx 285 with 2 gigs ram for about $450?
How much slower will it be than spending the extra $700 to $1000 for the cad-specialized card with unique drivers?
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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27. July 2009 @ 07:24 |
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The quadro or fireGL will absolutely flatten the GTX285 at 3D video rendering.
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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27. July 2009 @ 09:44 |
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I agree. Not only are there driver optimizations, the memory and processing architecture are made for rendering a single 3D frame at a time, not several in rapid succession. Thus the need for "render farms" in 3D animation. Professional cards are also much higher precision and support many graphical techniques that are far beyond the abilities of consumer-grade graphics. Even in game studios the testing is all done on consumer cards but every minute detail of development is done on professional cards.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. July 2009 @ 09:46
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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27. July 2009 @ 18:00 |
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Wow, Sam and Jeff, thanks. I'm going to send over to Joe your comments word for word.
I was thinking the same thing, Jeff - Miles at Valve probably uses some specialized graphics cards in his modelling and animation work. I gave Joe both of Miles' phone numbers.
Rich
Edit: Getting off the video card (quadro fx or firegl) and back to the actual processor - we were talking about i7 before. We have surmised that auto cad is single-threaded - but that doesn't mean necessarily that future versions won't start adding parallel processing (or does it.)
Still, even if single-threaded, a 920 overclocked to 4 ghz or thereabouts will provide 8 64-bit cores hyperthreaded for 4 tasks in parallel - each task is blazing fast and the other three can handle background vista stuff.
Along comes a forum poster that Joe emailed me about, talking about the W3520 nehalem xeon processor. I did some reading in wikipedia about xeon in general - some of them have hyper threading already disabled, extra added cache, etc.
Should Joe get the i7 920 and a good motherboard and overclock to 4.0 ghz or thereabouts, or should he get the latest xeon nehalem version?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. July 2009 @ 19:21
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 07:04 |
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if you hyperthread it, the jobs won't be amazingly fast, you're just going to turn the i7 into a dual core since that program is single threaded. If an application doesn't support multiple threads, HT is exactly what you don't want.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2009 @ 09:34 |
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MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 12:46 |
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Nice trailer buddy. That last moment had me laughing!!! Was "Modern Warfare" the first any good?
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 12:56 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2009 @ 12:57 |
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im really not the one to be asking that, im veruy biasd, having played over 1500 hours off it. its one of my fav games of all time... i love it to death, or till MW2 :P
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 12:58 |
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It's also about the only PC game he's ever played. I've played a fair few other games and do enjoy COD4 quite a lot, but more for the single player than the multiplayer.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 13:09 |
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I briefly played C.O.D. 5. Im not buying anymore games til I come at least close to mastering my others LOL!
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2009 @ 13:09
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 13:10 |
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I never liked COD5 much, but then it's a treyarch game, not a proper Infinity one like 1,2,4 and 6.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2009 @ 13:12 |
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duke nukem 3d and the red alerts aswell :) ooo and rollercoaser tycoon
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2009 @ 13:13 |
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I must admit, I want to pick RCT up again over the holidays, I promised myself I'd finish it over the holidays and rather fell by the wayside on that promise.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2009 @ 14:10 |
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I love RollerCoaster Tycoon - was one of the first PC games I played, and shall always be a favourite :) Check out Transport Tycoon if you haven't played it before (I always make custom maps on it with huge towns, flat land, and loads of industries and just have fun :D) - look up OpenTTD, it's an open source port of the original game.
I honestly don't know why Treyarch bother, 3 was mediocre and I didn't even play past the second level of 5. 1, on the other hand, was another of my favourite games, same with 2 and 4. Infinity Ward have a knack for a good storyline and well set out levels, Treyarch literally fail...
In other news, where's my Episode 3? >:[
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2009 @ 14:13
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