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shaffaaf

AfterDawn Addict

3. March 2010 @ 07:58

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mmm gtx 285 upgrade then?

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sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

3. March 2010 @ 08:31

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Considering an HD5870 is an almost identical price, I'd still say the GTX285 is the poorer offering unless you will never, ever, play anything but BC2.

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Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

shaffaaf

AfterDawn Addict

3. March 2010 @ 08:37

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i mean second hand

if i can get it for about £180 ish ill go for it

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shaffaaf

AfterDawn Addict

3. March 2010 @ 10:25

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http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17873/1/

sam ;)

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sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

3. March 2010 @ 20:04

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They stocked it with the Accelero X2 cooler? That means I get a good cooler without destroying the card without having to install it!
Pre-order inc :D

Thing is, how well do they work in crossfire one wonders? The Accelero cooler is a giant, but that obviously also means it sits right up against the other card. My theory is that, since hd5870s work when they are right next to each other seemingly getting no airflow at all (even though they're noisier like this), the uneven shape of the AC fans from the Accelero X2 cooler are hopefully going to find plenty of airflow. As long as the cards will actually fit side by side it should work.
Amazingly, the 4GB HD5970 plan seems to have taken off. After the announcement of the Asus ROG Ares and now this, XFX have also displayed a 4GB offering (unsure if the clocks are 5870 spec, but given the other cards I see no reason why not, like the Sapphire it's an 8+8 card). In this case, the stock cooler is used, sort of. The GPUs have been moved to the ends of the card, and the fan relocated to the middle.
What's interesting about XFX's card is that it's an Eyefinity6!. That, hopefully should be the cause of the expected $1000 MSRP, not just the fact that it's an uprated 5970. If the other cards cost £780, this is going to be one expensive upgrade... :S

[ + quote]

Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. March 2010 @ 20:27

sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 11:06

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Single GPU comparison charts
(Not comparable across brands, but figures approximately accurate to compare)

ATi Chart
[4GB HD5970: 1800-3600, typical 3250]
[HD5970: 1600-3200, typical 2850]
HD5870: 1800
[HD4870X2: 1000-2000, typical 1800]
HD5850: 1575
HD5830: 1350
HD4890: 1125
HD4870: 1000
[HD3870X2: 500-1000, typical 800]
HD5770: 900
HD4860: 850
HD4850: 800
HD4770: 775
HD5750: 775
HD4750: 650
HD4830: 600
HD3870: 500
HD3850: 425
HD5670: 425
HD5570: 350
HD2900XT: 350
HD4670: 350
HD2900 Pro: 300
HD3690: 225
HD4650: 225
HD3650: 150
HD4550: 125
HD5450: 125
HD2600XT: 100
HD4470: 100
HD4450: 75
HD3470: 75
HD2400XT: 50
HD2600 Pro: 50
HD2400 Pro: 30
HD3450: 30

nVidia Chart

[GTX295: 1100-2000, typical 2000]
GTX285: 1275
GTX275: 1200
GTX280: 1125
[9800GX2: 575-1150, typical 1050]
GTX260-216: 1000
GTX260: 900
GTS250: 750
9800GTX: 700
8800GTX: 675
8800GTS G92: 650
9800GT: 575
8800GT: 575
GT240: 500
9600GT: 425
8800GTS G80: 375
9600GSO: 375
8800GS: 375
GT220: 250
9600GSO G94: 225
9500GT: 200
8600GTS: 200
8600GT: 150
9400GT: 50
8500GT: 50
8400GS: 30
G210: 30 or less

[ + quote]

Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 11:10

shaffaaf

AfterDawn Addict

4. March 2010 @ 13:24

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had a LONG session of BC2.

at DX10 everythign high, no aa or AF, i was getting about 20 avg, jumping to 10 with big fire fights, so now i am on medium and getting 40ish, jumping to 20. about to try DX9, everything low to see that

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omegaman7

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7 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 13:43

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Had to show that low low score of the 210 didn't you :p

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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!

sammorris

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4 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 13:43

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Interesting, though still concerning.
A little more on Fermi, more support added to the prices stated previously about the GTX470 and GTX480. Both will be 1536MB cards, the GTX470 will be priced around £300-£350 (HD5870 territory in other words) and the GTX480 will be priced at £450-£500 (so as said, a bit behind the HD5970). Power consumption of the GTX480 is likely to be similar to the HD4870X2, both at idle and at load. The cards are powered by 6+8 connectors, but will perform to some extent with only 6+6 fitted, limiting their power usage in a typical environment to 225W. It's worth noting of course that under normal usage (i.e. outside Furmark/OCCT) even the 4870X2 only reaches around 250W.

Amazingly, despite the stratospheric price and power usage, the GTX480 appears to be equipped for triple or Quad SLI.

The price of the XFX 4GB HD5970 Eyefinity6 is likely to be around £700. The price of the Sapphire 4GB HD5970 is as yet unknown. It could be anywhere between the £575 for a standard HD5970 and the £700 figure for the XFX. Either way, high-end graphics performance no longer comes cheap.

Omega: It's only on there because it's been tested.

[ + quote]

Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 13:44

omegaman7

AfterDawn Addict

7 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 13:46

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Uh huh. Sure LOL!

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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!

Estuansis

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15 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 14:02

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Quote:
at DX10 everythign high, no aa or AF, i was getting about 20 avg, jumping to 10 with big fire fights, so now i am on medium and getting 40ish, jumping to 20. about to try DX9, everything low to see that

Haha this bodes well for me then. The performance figures aren't as bad as I expected. With a quad core and 2 4870s I should have no problem getting a mostly playable framerate with some details cranked. Considering I intend to run the same settings but in Dx9(unless 10 runs better, which I kinda doubt), you can basically double Shaff's FPS(as a guess for crossfire plus quad core plus dx9) and you're in my ballpark.

Shaff, your figures are at 1920 x 1200 correct? If so then... :D

As long as the game scales better than Crysis, it should run better than Crysis. And I get a solid 41FPS with my "tweaked" settings(basically dx9 very high) in the benchmark.

If Bad Company 2 is optimized at all I should be in the clear. Though it looks like I'll still need 5850s to run it full tilt.

[ + quote]

AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 14:07

shaffaaf

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4. March 2010 @ 14:19

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yes 1920x1200

and with DX9 at medium im getting 60, with dips to 40.

not bad, but still not good. with MW2 i get in the 80s, and cod4 in to 90s, so i guess its okayish. deffinately i think ill jump on a Q6600 and another 4870. hopefully that will be better.

remember this is with no AA or AF and no HBOA aswell

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sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 14:20

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The CPU demand of BFBC2 is very high, but a 3.7Ghz Phenom II should achieve a minimum of at least 50fps, which given the graphical demands, is likely to be all that is needed. To back that frame rate up graphically requires an HD5850 for 1680x1050, an HD5870 (or, assuming good crossfire scaling, two HD4870s) at 1920x1200, in DirectX9, with AA disabled, but otherwise high settings.
Apply Anti-Aliasing and enter DirectX10, however, and you will need two HD5870s to achieve 1280x1024. 1920x1200 is the realm of either three HD5870s, or Quad Crossfire.
In DirectX11 with Anti-Aliasing applied, the same restrictions apply, but the actual frame rates achieved are 5-10% lower.
The game is even more forgiving than it already is for nvidia users in DirectX9, with typical pairings like HD4870 vs GTX260-216 and HD4830 vs 9800GT seeing 30% and 25% skews respectively. Given these conditions, 1920x1200 at M50 is easily within the grasp of the GTX295.
This trend becomes slightly weaker in DirectX10, at 20% and 20%.
On this basis, Fermi setups should prove particularly potent in Bad Company 2, as given the native advantages, a triple-SLI config with GTX480s will be able to withstand the 150% demand increase of enabling DirectX11 and 8xAA and push 2560x1600 at 40fps minimum.
However, I'm really not going to advocate Fermi setups for the moment on the back of the horrifying rumours. Such a configuration in this example relies on the game being 20% biased to achieve something a reasonable amount better than what the Radeons can pull off, and will require an astonishing 1000W PSU, and cost well over £1000. Three HD5870s can be had for less than £1000, and with the use of adapters, will run fine on a 750W PSU.

Also, I stand corrected on the price of the Sapphire 4GB HD5970. The price is said to be at least $800, which, assuming no markup, would be £623. Given the percentage markup on current HD5970s, it could be £660, or possibly even higher, given the likely rarity of the card. I never thought I'd be contemplating almost three rent cheques worth on one graphics card. I wanted two of these!

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Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 14:23

shaffaaf

AfterDawn Addict

4. March 2010 @ 15:51

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http://lab501.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DSCF1371.jpg

LOL read it it shows the gtx480 yet on the description says hd 5000 series

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sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 15:54

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LOL fail shoop is fail!

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Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

Estuansis

AfterDawn Addict

15 product reviews

4. March 2010 @ 22:01

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Quote:
The CPU demand of BFBC2 is very high, but a 3.7Ghz Phenom II should achieve a minimum of at least 50fps, which given the graphical demands, is likely to be all that is needed. To back that frame rate up graphically requires an HD5850 for 1680x1050, an HD5870 (or, assuming good crossfire scaling, two HD4870s) at 1920x1200, in DirectX9, with AA disabled, but otherwise high settings.

That's as much as I figured. I was afraid my processor would be a bottleneck with newer games. I mean, let's face it, Intel is MUCH faster. But to my surprise the particular resolution and IQ settings, the processor hasn't been an issue at all. In fact, I'd say I'm almost video bottlenecked in certain areas.

I would like to try a pair of 5850s before I decide on my CPU upgrade. It might turn out the ole Phenom II is enough for me. As long as the game can play properly, without a certain component limiting it too badly, I am fairly tolerant of framerates. 60FPS at least is preferred, but I can handle down to about 40-45 without cringing too bad. Bad Company 2 is our new Crysis-esque game, though it seems to scale much better. I wouldn't be surprised to average 40-45FPS with above average settings. Crysis runs at about 35-40, benches 41,just as a comparison. Other than a certain few new games, my setup has been almost overkill for everything :D

EDIT:

Oh yeah my HAF got here today. I'll be running in cool comfort tomorrow. Man do those 4870s get hot :P

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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 22:09

Red_Maw

Senior Member

5. March 2010 @ 00:49

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Would this be a bad buy when looking for a gpu as powerful as integrated graphics (most demanding task would be short video clips) with two DVI ports? I was trying to avoid coolers that just dumped heat into the case but I can't imagine this putting off too much heat.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102880

TIA,

redmaw

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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2010 @ 02:07

sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 01:34

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Again, CPU demand is something of a personal performance 'taste' issue. A minimum of 50fps for example is not a minimum of 60fps, which in a multiplayer FPS I would really like. However, in this game such a frame rate is only doable if you use a smaller monitor with no AA and probably no DX10 rendering either. Granted, the sort of people who want high frame rates are often those who are willing to sacrifice visual detail (sometimes in the extreme) to get good performance, but on the other hand, people who aren't willing to pay for the graphics card to get a smooth frame rate on high settings may also not be willing to pay for the CPU to achieve the frame rate either. For new systems this is less an issue as most gamers are willing to put up the cost of an i5 system, which can easily handle almost any game at a very substantial frame rate (with the exception of Arma 2, which is plain ridiculous)
I agree with your upgrade plan. At 1920x1200 right now, there's much more of a gain to be had by upgrading to HD5850s than there is by upgrading your CPU. You won't really see the benefit of a faster CPU that much unless you do the graphics anyway.

If/when there's good CF scaling in Bad Company 2, two HD4870s stand to produce a minimum frame rate of up to about 50-55 at 1920x1200 in Bad Company 2. If there isn't, then there's clearly going to be a performance issue unless you can double the frame rate with a combination of reduced resolution or detail.
Unfortunately the only benchmark I have so far for the game doesn't distinguish between whether it is DirectX10 or Anti-Aliasing that causes the severe performance drop, since AA can only be applied in DirectX10 or DirectX11 mode. If the cause of the huge performance drop is Anti-Aliasing, then living without it wouldn't be so bad. If it's DX10/11 though, high-end graphics for the game is recommended, as from what I can tell from the translated article (Google translates Russian better than I thought) the graphical quality of the game is improved substantially by using DX11 over DX9.
While I'm hardly convinced that this improved graphical detail warrants a 150% increase in required graphics power, if it's a substantial improvement it's worth aiming for.
In general, the comparison is roughly that an HD5850 performs the same in DirectX10 with 8x AA as an HD5750, or 8800GT. The latter comparison is not strictly fair of course, since there is a 25% skew to nvidia cards, which is exactly what you'd expect the difference to be between the 9800 and 5750.
On that basis therefore, given that the HD4870 outperforms the HD5750 by 35% in Bad Company 2, what doesn't play nice on 4870s won't play nice on 5850s either, nor even 5870s.
If you were to set your sights on a minimum of 40fps, one HD5850 would be ample at 1920x1200 in DX9. To get there in DX10 with AA though. you might just get away with it with two HD5870s, if you drop to 1920x1080.
I haven't compared DirectX11 as the performance is only typically 5% lower.
As for the heat of the 4870s, try owning X2s :P With no chipset to worry about cooling with the i5 though, I've since cut my use of the powerful case fans, letting the X2s cool themselves, other than in the most demanding games.

Maw: Guessing there's supposed to be a link?

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Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2010 @ 01:39

Red_Maw

Senior Member

5. March 2010 @ 02:08

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Yes there was, sorry about that. It's been a long day lol.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102880

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sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 02:55

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You may as well buy one of these:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877
It's much more up to date than the HD3650, cheaper, and will produce less heat. The HD3650 only has the larger heatsink because it's an older card, thus produces more heat.
The HD5450 is only two thirds as powerful as the HD3650, but if you're just watching videos, that's still ample.

[ + quote]

Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2010 @ 02:56

omegaman7

AfterDawn Addict

7 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 03:29

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Newegg shows that that card supports Software Crossfire. Eh? Never heard of that before. Sorta like hardware raid, and software raid I suppose.
They don't list it as Low profile ready. And yet the pic shows a low profile bracket. Neweggs organization is beginning to disappoint LOL! I sure wouldn't want the job though :p Another example is, searching for Lan Cards in the Add in card category is futile. They only list 2. I new that couldn't be true. Especially after running a search. So I searched through the networking tab. Voila LOL!

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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!

sammorris

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 03:35

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Yes, Crossfire via the chipset without needing any bridge connectors. To be honest, crossfire with cards like that is pointless, as by spending twice as much you can get a single card three times as fast.

This is almost exactly twice the price:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102871
and is actually 4.5x as powerful!

[ + quote]

Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2010 @ 03:37

omegaman7

AfterDawn Addict

7 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 03:49

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LOL! I wasn't suggesting buying cheapy cards. I've already made that mistake once. I don't intend on doing it again LOL!

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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!

Estuansis

AfterDawn Addict

15 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 04:10

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Quote:
Again, CPU demand is something of a personal performance 'taste' issue. A minimum of 50fps for example is not a minimum of 60fps, which in a multiplayer FPS I would really like.

I certainly do aim for a 60FPS minimum in most of my games. I can definitely tell the difference below 60. But certain games, Crysis and BC2 included, seem to run a bit smoother than the usual game at lower FPS. So if I can get at least a 30 minimum after all of this I will be happy with that.

Quote:
However, in this game such a frame rate is only doable if you use a smaller monitor with no AA and probably no DX10 rendering either. Granted, the sort of people who want high frame rates are often those who are willing to sacrifice visual detail (sometimes in the extreme) to get good performance, but on the other hand, people who aren't willing to pay for the graphics card to get a smooth frame rate on high settings may also not be willing to pay for the CPU to achieve the frame rate either. For new systems this is less an issue as most gamers are willing to put up the cost of an i5 system, which can easily handle almost any game at a very substantial frame rate (with the exception of Arma 2, which is plain ridiculous)

You know me constantly tweaking and tweaking and tweaking. I'm sure I can find a happy medium for the game no matter what GPU I happen to be using at the time :)

Quote:
I agree with your upgrade plan. At 1920x1200 right now, there's much more of a gain to be had by upgrading to HD5850s than there is by upgrading your CPU. You won't really see the benefit of a faster CPU that much unless you do the graphics anyway.

Well that's what I thought. Especially because I love my AA, most of my games seem to stay fairly video dependent. I think an i5 or similar AMD is going to be inevitable. But for right now I want to stretch this Phenom II as far as I can. I certainly have the money and the will to do the upgrade, but I'm trying to procrastinate as long as possible :P

Quote:
As for the heat of the 4870s, try owning X2s :P With no chipset to worry about cooling with the i5 though, I've since cut my use of the powerful case fans, letting the X2s cool themselves, other than in the most demanding games.

My new HAF seems to have sorted my temps issues quite handily. I still get some toasty numbers after a few hours of play. But Now I'm getting maybe 70*C vs maybe 80 before. This is read using GPU-Z on the hottest sensor(being the memory in my case). I didn't get the side panel with the fan but the other fans seem to have fairly balanced airflow. I'm still playing with it, but the HAF seems to be my dual graphics savior :)

The HAF is surprisingly very high quality. Like not that it surprised me that it was of good quality, but the actual level of quality itself is what got me. It has the same heavy gauge-type side panels as my Armor. Might I mention the cable management as well, which is insane. I seriously have never put together a build this clean and in such a short amount of time. I'm impressed.

My only complaint is the same that seems to plague all HAFs. My side panels are warped a bit so lining up the thumb screws is excruciating. Everything seems to go together without fuss, but I have to hold the panels down very tight in order to line up the holes and get the screws in. Actually a very minor complaint because my Armor does the same thing ;P

Oh yeah I have very large hands as well so the extra space was appreciated during the build. It is a bit wider and deeper than my Armor. Not by much, just a smidge. I had literally zero problems getting my hardware in and setting everything up. In contrast my Raidmax Smilodon is a bit cramped inside so it requires a lot of swearing and cut hands to work with. Oh yeah all rolled edges on the HAF. Very nice :)

The stance and physical features of the HAF give a very looming and imposing presence. I have a new favorite case :)

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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2010 @ 04:20

omegaman7

AfterDawn Addict

7 product reviews

5. March 2010 @ 04:32

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Originally posted by Estuansis:
I have a new favorite case :)

I don't doubt that for one nano second! It's by far the best purchase decision I've made yet!

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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!

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