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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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25. February 2010 @ 17:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
7 to 8 was a substantial jump, but you can't really compare the gap between the HD3 series and the HD4 series as the HD3 series was a very poor performer, topping out a full 30% behind nvidia's best efforts of a year beforehand.
Ultimately you have to see it as an economic situation. We shouldn't have to pay anywhere near as much as we do for the current HD5 series, but yet they are priced well given the circumstances. ATI are selling features and efficiency for the extra over their predecessors, because they can.
To say ATI are taking advantage is true, but this is nowhere near as bad as the gouging from nvidia. The 8800 Ultra was £100 more than the 8800GTX for less than 10% extra performance, simply because ATI couldn't compete back then. ATI are hardly doing that now. Compared to disabling opposition cards in games using code switches, mild price gouging still makes ATI the 'good guy'.
Fermi isn't going to make up for nvidia's corporate attitude, and you know as well as I do that they're going to be price gouged to hell if they're competitive. If the GTX480 beats the HD5870 by anything above insignificance, expect to cost just a tad less than an HD5970, simply because they can.
As for Q9550, maybe. I can't afford a graphics card for this system at the moment (well, not the one I want) so the CPU is sitting unused. I might be tempted to swap you the E5200 with a little on the extra, but I really wanted a quad core CPU to use that system with, and the Q9550 E0 is ideal since it can then be tested for overclocking in a single GPU environment.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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25. February 2010 @ 17:24 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Oh man! Fermi Technology sounds interesting.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/fermi_architecture.html
I wonder how much an entry level GPU is gonna cost though...
If it can smoke the 295, something tells me I won't even be lucky enough to dream about it, much less purchase one :p



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25. February 2010 @ 17:25 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
well let me know if you want to when u want to, march 5th BC2 should be here so ill let you know how the final version benches.

i agree with that, i just am so pissed of withthe 5830 its translating else where lol.

jsut foudn out why the 5830 is performing more like a a 5770 than a 5850, and its due to a paltry 16 ROPs..... the same as the 5770, half of the 5850, which will and does lead to poor AA/AF results.

the more i read about this card the more i dont like it lol. hexus, anad and bittech dont seem to like it much either. Well, okay, good card, poor price.




MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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25. February 2010 @ 18:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Omega: You have to bear in mind that everything Fermi stands for furthers the performance of GPU computing applications, and not gaming performance. While the GTX480 will be a powerful card in itself, the optimisations of the new technology go toward better CUDA performance, not higher frame rates in games.
Shaff: The HD5830 does seem a little bit more cut back than usual, but I suppose it is after all the entry level card of the 5800 series. It's worth noting that there are some bugs with the drivers used in initial tests of it, so things could well improve from here.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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25. February 2010 @ 18:06 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNGWzutU...player_embedded

BC2 march, cant wait.

sad that the beta has finished now.

thats a point sam aswell, drivers.





MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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25. February 2010 @ 18:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by sammorris:
Omega: You have to bear in mind that everything Fermi stands for furthers the performance of GPU computing applications, and not gaming performance. While the GTX480 will be a powerful card in itself, the optimisations of the new technology go toward better CUDA performance, not higher frame rates in games.

Mmm, I wondered about that. They'll probably be more like the Quadro FX cards then? Aimed at Workstation environments...



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2010 @ 18:20

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25. February 2010 @ 18:22 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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25. February 2010 @ 18:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Impressive. I'd rather run two large displays than 3 though :p I have wondered what it would be like to run 3 though XD



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25. February 2010 @ 18:36 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
It's worth pointing out that 5760x1080 is 52% more pixels than 2560x1600. 2560x1600 in itself is 98% more pixels than 1920x1080.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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25. February 2010 @ 18:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
and he doesnt need an SSD, which leaves me baffled.



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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25. February 2010 @ 19:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   





MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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25. February 2010 @ 23:04 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   





Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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25. February 2010 @ 23:53 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Ho ho! So the 5970 is better than the GTX 295?
GTX 295, HD 5970 Price comparison
So is the HD 5970 really worth ~100$ more?

I rarely see the GTX 295 compared. Thank you Shaff.



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2010 @ 23:54

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26. February 2010 @ 00:35 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The HD5970 absolutely butchers the GTX295. The GTX295 is two GTX275s that only run at GTX260 clock speeds. The HD5970 is two HD5870s that run at HD5850 clock speeds. This means the HD5970 is ultimately about 50% faster at least. That makes it worth beyond $100 more. It's really worth $300 more.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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26. February 2010 @ 04:16 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I swear, I love playing GTA IV just to see how many ways I can kill Niko Bellic. I've come to the conclusion, that there's an infinite number of ways. Liberty City is far to big to become bored easily LOL! I especially love taking cops down with me!

I bumped the GPU's fan to 54%(Fairly audible) before the game. Played for nearly 2 hrs. The GPU didn't appear to go over 65C. The CPU seemed to hover around 40-42C. Very pleased with this :D Since GTA IV is a "Cpu Whore", this is a good temp. I generally see 75-85% cpu usage. I honestly don't see the need in Oc'ing more, but I have to see it breach the 4Ghz threshold. Even if its challenging!



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26. February 2010 @ 06:02 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
man that's a demanding game! Even the 4850 is beating the GTX260!

but aren't the total series cpu whores?



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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26. February 2010 @ 09:22 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
From what I gather that's usually the case. Unfortunately at 1024x768 the HD5870 is so overwhelmed there's no way to tell how far beyond unplayability the CPU limit lies. That said, this is an RTS we're talking about, and the minimum frame rate here is at least 30, which is usually sufficient for a strategy game. However, this is with a 4.25Ghz Q9550, so I would hope that the CPU limit here is at least 40-45fps such that standard quad core CPUs could cope.

Omega:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5970-review-test/15

Originally posted by Guru3D:
As such the GTX 295 pushes 42 FPS at 2560x1600 with 4xAA (on average), but the Radeon HD 5970 brutally sodomizes the GTX 295 here with nearly doubled up performance.





Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2010 @ 14:18

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26. February 2010 @ 14:41 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Possibly baseless speculation alert

Some rather sceptical rumours about Fermi...

Originally posted by Semiaccurate:
On the GTX470 side, there are 448 shaders, and the clocks are set at 625MHz and 1250MHz in both cases. If the GTX480 is really at 600Mhz and 1200MHz, and the GTX470 is slightly faster, it should really make you wonder about the thermals of the chip. Remember when we said that the GF100 GTX480 chip was having problems with transistors at minimal voltages? Basically Nvidia has to crank the voltages beyond what it wanted to keep borderline transistors from flaking out. The problem is that this creates heat, and a lot of it. Both of our sources said that their cards were smoking hot. One said they measured it at 70C at idle on the 2D clock.

The fans were reported to be running at 70 percent of maximum when idling, a number that is far, far too high for normal use. Lets hope that this is just a BIOS tweaking issue, and the fans don't need to be run that fast. It would mean GF100 basically can't downvolt at all on idle. On the upside, if it's any comfort, the noise from the fans at that speed was said to be noticeable, but not annoying.

Quote:
Now that you know the raw clocks, how does it perform? It is a mixed bag, but basically the cards are much below Nvidia's original expectations publicly stated as 60 percent faster than Cypress. The numbers that SemiAccurate were told span a variety of current games, all running at very high resolutions. Here is where we can't list specifics or the Nvidia Keystone Kops might find their first SemiAccurate mole. We will bring you the full spreadsheets when the cards are more widespread.

The GTX480 with 512 shaders running at full speed, 600Mhz or 625MHz depending on which source, ran on average 5 percent faster than a Cypress HD5870, plus or minus a little bit. The sources were not allowed to test the GTX470, which is likely an admission that it will be slower than the Cypress HD5870.

There is one bright spot, and it is a very bright spot indeed. No, not the thermal cap of the chip, but the tessellation performance in Heaven. On that synthetic benchmark, the numbers were more than twice as fast as the Cypress HD5870, and will likely beat a dual chip Hemlock HD5970. The sources said that this lead was most definitely not reflected in any game or test they ran, it was only in tessellation limited situations where the shaders don't need to be used for 'real work'.

Update: The games tested DID include DX11 games, and those are still in the 5% range. Heaven uses tessellation in a way that games can not, Heaven can utilize far more shaders for tessellation than a normal game can, they have to use them for, well, the game itself. The performance of Heaven on GTX480 was not reflected in any games tested by our sources, DX9, 10, 10.1 or 11.

If this is true, the only priced ATI will likely be dropping will be that of the HD5870, and even then only slightly. There are also rumoured RRPs for the GTX460 and GTX470, which are likely false, but false rumours tend to all-too-often be close to the truth. If that's the case, the GTX480 will never sell. It is priced above the HD5970 according to rumours, with the GTX470 being placed between the HD5870 and HD5970's price.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2010 @ 14:44

Red_Maw
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26. February 2010 @ 15:54 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
A bit dissapointing but I'll settle for a 5870 price drop. That's all I was really hoping for anyway


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26. February 2010 @ 16:41 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
It's a good thing people do research into products, before purchasing them LOL! Eh sam ;)
Myself not included...
I do regret jumping into the 210, but I'll get over it. Really doesn't bother me that much. I more or less stepped up an OBG board, and gave it an HDMI port. THAT'S what I wanted. It's for my brothers HTPC. He'll have a PS3 before too long, so gaming with the HTPC is really not a factor...



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26. February 2010 @ 19:15 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Yeah if the card meets your needs, no reason to dump it. But you made the mention of light gaming. That's what triggered a response. It won't do light gaming even. But if all you needed was HD playback and HDMI, it will be just fine.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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26. February 2010 @ 19:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Exactly. The G210 does the same as any other card for HD video playback, though there are cheaper cards you can buy for the job. However, it cannot, not even in the slightest, play any games, so you should only ever be buying one if you have no intention of playing anything other than web browser flash games. My £40 worth 9200 from 6 years ago could take it on and probably win, and G210s cost more than that now...



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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26. February 2010 @ 19:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
i doubt that sam but its pretty poor.



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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27. February 2010 @ 00:18 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm gonna come to hate the 210 at this rate... LOL!



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27. February 2010 @ 08:42 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
why? for what you need its perfect.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,70560...6-Edition/News/

sam prefer this to the ROG ares?



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
 
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