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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. April 2009 @ 14:33 |
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USB 3 I'm really looking forward to. External hard drives abound when they get that running. As far as GTA4 goes, the primary cause of lag is only having a dual core processor. Since you have a quad, a lot of the load of your GPU has been removed. I've seen GTA4 done on a 8600GT anyway, my friend has one, though only has a 22" monitor. Even so I think he played at 1024x768 minimum detail. It ran OK. He has a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo (laptop grade, but in a mini-ITX desktop PC). Conversely, my other friend's PC with a more powerful X1900XT and an Athlon X2 4200+ can't run the game above a handful of frames per second (less than 10 in a lot of instances) at absolute minimum, 640x480. It's all down to the CPU.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. April 2009 @ 14:39 |
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Yah...Usb 2 is becoming/IS a joke anymore. People now have HIGH demands of their usb ports. Im hoping they release add-in cards first LOL! I can think of a few drives i'd love to run externally, without hindering their speeds! And I would like to stretch this mobo at least a little longer than the last one.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. April 2009 @ 14:41 |
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Yeah, add-in cards will come first I expect. It will take time for motherboard manufacturers to adapt, and very few people will be willing to buy new boards just for faster USB.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. April 2009 @ 14:41
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8. April 2009 @ 15:23 |
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As much as i'd like faster USB speeds, i'll pass, add-in cards or not. I have something like 14 USB ports in permanent use on the Quad machine, some of those are powered by cheapy PCI cards, the motherboard (which is only a few months old) provides 8 ports; with faster add-in cards i'd still be stuck with loads of devices on USB 2.0.
USB 2.0 works more than well enough/fast enough for me, and i'm always copying silly amounts of gigabytes around the various hard drives. I shall look forward to other peoples' experiences with USB 3.0 when it arrives though.
As to boredom, i haven't been bored one single time in literally 10 years now (must be my age!).
As to GTA4, i bought my xbox 360's purely for the game, runs really well on the xbox, 'fraid i gave up on pc gaming (and the associated ridiculous costs of GFX cards) many years ago. I have Logitech X-530's and X-230'a on my 2 main pc's but the one xbox is hooked up to a pair of X-230's, the sound coupled with the xbox graphics is very immersive indeed. (So much so that i rarely play other games).
Back to pc's, i've been converting literally hundreds of movies to AVI for the last few weeks, have been splitting the load between the Quad machine and my main Dual Core. It's been a loud affair, what with all fans on full for days at a time, and the room has certainly been warm :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. April 2009 @ 15:27
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. April 2009 @ 15:24 |
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You obviously have lower expectations than me then... haha
The thing I want most of all is to try and remove the 21MB/s write speed cap for Windows file sharing.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. April 2009 @ 15:33 |
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I haven't bought a console since the Gamecube. And I didnt own that one long LOL. I see where your coming from creaky. The troubles with the 360 have kinda kept me from buying one though. And since a PC could be running its games inside a year or two...LOL. I have a great deal of patience. Not however for waiting to play GTA IV! And since I spend more time on a PC, it was the right choice to give it SOME gaming capabilities. Besides, I get more satisfaction out of a Built gaming machine, then an Xbox, PS3, etc. However, I could see buying a PS3 if my financial situation were not as rough as it is.
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8. April 2009 @ 15:39 |
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Yeah, i'd done well staying away from 360's and their endless reliabilty issues until GTA4 came along, then i caved in and then went as far as buying 2 360's. The alternative ie buying an expensive graphics card (even if a graphics card was cheaper than a 360, i don't know how much a GTA4-adequate card costs) just didn't appeal.
I always kept up with the latest graphics card 'back in the day', i think the last one i bought was a Matrox G200, or more likely it was a couple of Geforce MX440's (bought when they were old hat incidentally). The only video card i've ever bought since is the lowly Geforce 6100 that lives in the Quad machine, and that's only due to the previous mobo (MSI P35 Platinum) having no onboard video (i normally only use onboard or reuse one of my ancient graphics cards). I couldn't justify (wasting!) spending money on graphics upgrades just to keep up with games, it was easier to give up pc gaming to be honest. Each to their own though :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. April 2009 @ 15:48
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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8. April 2009 @ 19:17 |
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Creaky: We have two 360s, a console we share, which has been modded, and a retail console of the newer Falcon generation (2 of 3) - the Falcon console draws 90W from the wall, not the 165W the old revision draws, it barely gets warm, and with the games installed to the bigger 60GB HDD, it makes much less noise, even the fans are slightly better, and thanks to the lower heat, spin up less. I'm not too fond that it has a Benq drive in it, but it's not as if I had much choice.
Tempting fate by saying this, but our late 2006 console has so far been relatively good, reliability wise.
Hehe, 'latest graphics cards' - I'm not so young I don't know that was a budget card, I owned one, only cost about 60 quid at the time. The Ti 4200 and 4600 were the cards to have back then. You're right though, it's an expensive hobby. I just think it's a better alternative to throwing money away on drink and/or fags...
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8. April 2009 @ 21:02 |
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Sam,
By the numbers!
1. High END and High Quality are completely different.
R: I built a higher end x2 and I look for High Quality
2. Pentium D systems with basic graphics still use less than 200W.
R: Overclocked to 3.83GHz the CPU alone draws about 235w
3. Most weak PSUs will survive up to about half load with no noticeable issue
R: I only owned one that bad, and this ain't it!
4. Most weak PSUs will not stand up to running the wattage they are rated for
R: Most PSUs won't. It depends on the efficiency of the unit.
5. A weak PSU is any PSU designed to the standard layout for a wattage figure lower than what is printed on the label.
R: I know how to read, and you have to look closely to see how the power is dished out! See #4
6. The speed of correction is because Loadline Calibration is a relatively instantaneous technology. That's not hardware quality, that's just how the tech in your board has been designed
R: It still has to have good stable power supplying it, either way. All the load line calibration in the world won't help a PSU who's voltages are all over the map.
7. There is a lot more to a fan than just how much noise it makes and how much air it moves.
R: I don't get that deep with fans. I buy fans that suit my airflow needs, and look for something quiet that meets those needs
8. To use three 120mm fans at once (not uncommon in a lot of systems) FM121s will mean at least two fan controllers lying in the middle of the case, or modification to use a backplate.
R: I usually use two. an 80mm and a 120mm. I use the port bracket that comes with the 80mm to mount the controllers on the rear. It holds 3 controls. I've also mounted them on the front using a bay blank when there's a door. I almost never touch them!
9. To use any number of 120mm fans from any other manufacturer, plug it in and away you go
R: I run few fans off of my motherboard. Most of my fans are plugged into the Molex plugs on the PSU. 3 of my 120's are 1200 rpm and run at that speed, one is 800 and the 80mm SS is set to 1450 RPM.
10. 'Cheap' is a relative concept. Just because something is expensive does not mean it is good. That is Donald's principle, and even moreso in reverse.
R: Yes, there is a difference between cheap and inexpensive!
11. The worst thing to do to convince people in an argument is to make false accusations regarding their choices, but oh look!
R: Especially since you were the one making the false accusations? You went a bit over the top in condemning the Silverstones, and you know it. The Earthwatts do run very warm here, and are quite loud because of that. My findings, and I can only report what I find to be true. Probably due to the excessive heat here!
12. Contrary to the Thermaltake, the EarthWatts 380W is a 380W unit.
R: I answered that one already in the last post!
13. Since spotting an 80mm fan in the PSU you immediately assume it's noisy. That isn't always the case.
R: I answered that one already too. I assumed nothing!
14. The fan in the Earthwatts PSU typically runs no higher than 1400rpm in a system drawing 180W (7-blade). Remind me, what speed is your 80mm fan when you say it's super quiet and you can hear a pin drop?
R: maybe where you live they run that slow, but it get's too hot here 4 to 5 months out of the year. Power is generally poor here too, and too often drops below 100v. That's why I added a Boost transformer and designed a voltage regulator/line conditioner for our computer outlets. I can maintain 111v to 115v, even when the power drops as low as 97v. That Speed would have been 1300 RPM. You know what, it's at 1450 RPM right now and even with the AC on, I can still hear a pin hit the floor. My friend Adam, just to be a Smart A, just tried me out on it and after three tries, concedes that I heard all three! From about 6 feet away too!
15. The top cover of my file server with its Earthwatts is cool to the touch. It would be cooler still if I used a faster exhaust fan, right now it's at 950rpm.
R: Like I said, perhaps it's the higher temperatures here! That and all the dust. It's just not a good environment here.
It's all hair splitting anyway. You seem to forget one very important thing. I see all types of computers. Hundreds of them a year ranging from pre-built to custom. Repairwise, I see mostly customs. I also get to spend some time with a lot more different components than you do, and I keep notes on my findings. And thanks to my Doctor friends, I get to see stuff that I could only dream of owning. If it's the latest and greatest in LGA775 or AM2+, I've usually had some experience with it, or at least seen it. I also see a lot of the highest end motherboards from Asus, Biostar, DFI Gigabyte and MSI. I've also had the chance to experience the SkullTrail, 3 different motherboard, QX9770 rigs. 1 Rampage Formula, 1 DFI and 1 Gigabyte. I've also played games on a QX9650 in a EP45-DQ6 and on another with a DFI Lanparty MB. Most people here will never see any of that class of stuff as it's priced out of most of our reach. If I was buying, I think that the QX9650 would be my choice, on the DFI MB! At $1000+ for the QX9650, I doubt we'll be seeing many of them here. I'd love to have one, but it's out of my price range! I'm glad to have friends that can afford things like that, because it gives me a wealth of knowledge and experience I might not have had otherwise! That's the key! The experience!
It might be helpful if you looked back and see what you've said about certain products in the past, because quite often lately you keep contradicting yourself! Shaff used to do the same thing and then accuse me of twisting his words! Why you want to take issue with me all the time, is another question in itself!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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8. April 2009 @ 21:16 |
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Ok guys give it a rest.Your both great knowledge.But lets get back on topic and settle down into a pm to each other and get out some more good info to the rest of us.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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8. April 2009 @ 21:51 |
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Quote:
And thanks to my Doctor friends, I get to see stuff that I could only dream of owning.
No way you're going to get me to dream of a Dell Optiplex because I see enough of those at work. Just go to the budget shelves at BestBuy that should cure the craving. LOL
If I had to do a budget build I would consider looking at an AMD setup, but with my Q9650, Q9550 (both EO), E8400, E6700,E6600, and Opteron 175 (yep still have it too) I'm happy for now. I keep my endorphins up by building, upgrading, and repairing for others. On another note 6402 just built two AMD builds, although he got his parts at an absurdly cheap price. For those who don't know him, 6402 is a very experienced builder and a long time overclocker. We've been debating and competing with each other off and on since the spring of 2004. In fact a couple of people on this thread met us in a thread here at AD in just such a debate but with brobear as the antagonist.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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8. April 2009 @ 22:34 |
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Originally posted by Sophocles:
Quote:
And thanks to my Doctor friends, I get to see stuff that I could only dream of owning.
No way you're going to get me to dream of a Dell Optiplex because I see enough of those at work. Just go to the budget shelves at BestBuy that should cure the craving. LOL
If I had to do a budget build I would consider looking at an AMD setup, but with my Q9650, Q9550 (both EO), E8400, E6700,E6600, and Opteron 175 (yep still have it too) I'm happy for now. I keep my endorphins up by building, upgrading, and repairing for others. On another note 6402 just built two AMD builds, although he got his parts at an absurdly cheap price. For those who don't know him, 6402 is a very experienced builder and a long time overclocker. We've been debating and competing with each other off and on since the spring of 2004. In fact a couple of people on this thread met us in a thread here at AD in just such a debate but with brobear as the antagonist.
Sophocles,
Hmm, a Skulltrail in a Dell Optiplex case. It would probably overheat! LOL!! :) I certainly hope the ones you see at work are at least P-IIIs.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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9. April 2009 @ 00:43 |
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I sure hope you guys will correct ME when I contradict myself. It would not surprise me at all. I have a pretty selective memory. So dont be alarmed or insulted if I dont remember something you've told me, or something that ive stated myself. Usually, only things that intrigue me, are allowed to hither in my brain LOL! Nah, generally it depends on my mood at the time. :)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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9. April 2009 @ 00:51 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
I sure hope you guys will correct ME when I contradict myself. It would not surprise me at all. I have a pretty selective memory. So dont be alarmed or insulted if I dont remember something you've told me, or something that ive stated myself. Usually, only things that intrigue me, are allowed to hither in my brain LOL! Nah, generally it depends on my mood at the time. :)
Oman7,
What's the Latencies on that "Selective Memory", BTW!! ROFLMSOAO!!
Just Funnin with ya,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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9. April 2009 @ 00:56 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Oman7,
What's the Latencies on that "Selective Memory", BTW!! ROFLMSOAO!!
Just Funnin with ya,
Russ
LOL. Not good enough ;)
Boy, I cant wait for the GPU to get here now. Im itching to play GTA now. I figured I would wait for that card now. My 8600 is enjoyable, but since the 260 will smoke it in every way imaginable, I figured I would wait and experience it the way it was meant to be played :D
I wonder how much OC'ing it can handle. It is a Black edition.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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9. April 2009 @ 07:28 |
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Omega: I didn't realise you'd bought an XFX, I thought it was BFG? The XFX Black edition cards are awesome, but BFG use moe subtle overclocks, and basically leave it up to you to push it to the limit.
Russ: Sorry, what? Apparently, you answered most of those points in the post before I even wrote them. SHort answer, no you didn't.
You claim you 'look for high quality' - you don't look for anything, a certain product comes out, you're all over it like it's going out of fashion, and you won't accept anything else. You were quite happy to pass the blame off to the ATI when the OBG didn't work out as expect on your 790G board, despite the fact that it's an AMD chipset as a whole, and that OBG chip is an AMD design.
If a Pentium D at 3.83Ghz used 235W, it would shut down due to overheat, even with a TRUE, let alone the cooler you used it with. It would also melt the 4-pin ATX connector.
The efficiency of a PSU has absolutely zero to do with how well they stand up to load. As someone who knows a thing or to about electronics, you surprise me. The basic AOpen, Qtec etc. units that shut down at 1/4 load are under 25% efficient are they?
So you read the label on the Thermaltake 430W, and spotted that those figures mean it's actually a 300W. Why did you argue then?
THe level of Vdroop with even relatively good motherboards like the P35C-DS3R is about 5%. that's 0.6V on a 12V rail, a variation of that strength is enough to destabilise a system, but you'd never spot it underneath the vdroop of a board.
I'll stop there. It's the same old argument
"you're making false accusations!"
"NO YOU're making false accusations!"
"NO YOU're making false accusations!"
"you changed your mind!"
"NO YOU changed your mind!"
It's petty, it's retarded, I've had enough.
Quite frankly I have neither the time or the patience to keep people on track in this thread any more. Unsubscribed.
I'm just fortunate you haven't corrupted the other threads on the site. I'm really beginning to see why Shaffaaf left now.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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9. April 2009 @ 09:28 |
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Quote:
Quite frankly I have neither the time or the patience to keep people on track in this thread any more.
I hadn't realized that you had secretly been placed in control of this thread.:)
This thread does indeed go off track quite a bit as a result of arguments between individuals, and generally as a result of the same old cause. Someone builds something or recommends something that they're proud of, and then along comes someone else who disagrees with their choices and supplants theirs in its place. It's OK to do that as long as it's being offering as another alternative instead of being used as a club to beat down the previous person's choice. To do that doesn't make your alternative necessarily better until others weigh in and the person asking for help is finally helped, it makes you a Troll.
I work with kids who are name-brand conscious. It goes like this. One evening their mothers takes them out and buys them designer or brand labeled clothing, and a pair of $200 Michael Jordan running shoes. The next day the kid comes to class with all the original tags still on his clothing hanging out for everyone to see (he doesn't need the tag for a pair of Jordan's). Then somewhere in the class another student who is jealous and who given the chance would wear his own tagged clothing begins to dis the student's new stuff, and an argument ensues. I try to explain to them that the same stuff is often available under no name tags often for a much lower price, and that the $200 Jordan's are really no better than my $35 Nike's or Reebok's. Alas to no avail. To make my point home I needed some casual pants and polo shirts, and I wear running shoes to work every day so I went shopping. The next day I walked into class and proudly displayed my Wal-Mart tags to the stunned look on my students' faces.
The point is that any piece of equipment is only as good as the purpose it intends to serve, and the quality of its manufacturer. I have a 5 year old 500 watt Allied power supply I pulled out of a friends dead computer because I collect parts. It has since survived being continually used from that time. I first threw it in a budget gaming rig I built for my son, and after I built him a new system for more than 2 years of 24/7 folding. Are Allied power supplies crap? I do and have always thought so. Would I consider purchasing one? Not a chance, although this unit has never caused any issues or failed, and is running at this moment. Anyone that didn't know what it is because I hid the tags would assume that it's a quality power supply.
Surfing the net and buying the best stuff to be able to build a second, third, or even 10th rig doesn't make one an expert, or especially knowledgeable, but it is a good start in that direction. Some of us build far more than that every year, and have been doing so for many years going well into a second decade. It takes just as much knowledge and effort to spec out and build an inexpensive high quality system, perhaps even more than it does to simply buy the best, because it rides at the top of a performance list.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. April 2009 @ 10:56
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9. April 2009 @ 10:53 |
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Spotted this point, which is well made and I thought I'd respond to it. The argument isn't really over brands specifically, especially since Silverstone make decent PSUs and Cases, and Thermaltake make good PSUs higher up the scale. Slapping an unrecognised brand name on something and getting me to evaluate it objectively wouldn't really have changed what I see here. Neither Thermaltake, Coolermaster, Silverstone or AMD do I have any grudges against or do I consider bad companies such as some other bad PSU/other component manufacturers.
Fact is though, from an objective standpoint it's clear to see that a lot of the stuff Russ hammers into this thread is not just far from the best you can buy, but it's also far from the best you can buy for the money, with the exception of the 430W Thermaltake PSU, because frankly, a PSU that cheap would never be much good anyway.
Disregarding the poor comparative performance of the AMD CPUs to the more expensive Intels, even comparing like to like cost poducts, they're still equal at best, usually still behind. Same goes for the fans, if the economy is so dire, why spend $17 per case fan, when for a start, Silverstone themselves make the FN121, a fan with a reasonable maximum speed, a better material for the surround (so therefore probably better noise levels), no need for the soppy controller, and best of all it's only 10 bucks, not 17.
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1 product review
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9. April 2009 @ 11:37 |
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I use the same Silverstone fan that Russ uses in one of my folding rigs and it's perfect for that use. I wouldn't use it in my HTPC but then I also wouldn't highend parts of any kind since the extra power would be wasted. I'm using the 750 Thermaltake Toughpower (made by channel well)in my main rig and it's as effective quite now as it was when I purchased it. I also have two 750 Watt Corsairs which suit my needs perfectly since I will never use more than one video card and it should run two very effectively with just the one 12v rail.
Russ, I have a 650EA Antec which I picked up for $79.99 from Newegg and it's not only cool to the touch but it's fans are almost inaudible. Let's look at it like this. If you take a slightly under powered 430 Watt unit with good fan control then even if it has 120 MM fans it's going to run them faster than a high quality 650 watt unit with 80 MM fans will just keep cool. So which do you think will be the noisier of the two?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015
Sam, there are probably only a couple of sites that I would trust reviews for power supplies from, and that's because they really torture them and one is JonnyGuru. Just ignore the aesthetic rating, give functionality some consideration, and pay attention to performance and value, and you will generally do alright. Here's a review that gets a CoolerMaster power supply a recommended rating, but when they did the old Thermaltake toughpower it got a 9.5 out of 10.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?nam...Story4&reid=141
Not many score 10 because of aesthetics but here's one that made a 10 on performance and that along with value are the most important factors.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?nam...=Story&reid=142
So what about a decent 450Watt power supply? Apparently Siverstone makes one.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?nam...Story4&reid=129
The problem with this thread is that many of us are coming to school with our designer label clothing and $200 Jordan's and then recommending it to everyone that we can. Most moderate enthusiasts don't want to spend or just can afford a pair of $200 Jordan's, and why should they if a $35 pair of Nike's will do? We're here to help people get what they want not what we want or want them to have. When we start doing that in the middle of a pissing contest then we are no longer helping anyone.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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9. April 2009 @ 11:56 |
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Originally posted by Sophocles:
The problem with this thread is that many of us are coming to school with our designer label clothing and $200 Jordan's and then recommending it to everyone that we can. Most moderate enthusiasts don't want to spend or just can afford a pair of $200 Jordan's, and why should they if a $35 pair of Nike's will do? We're here to help people get what they want not what we want or want them to have. When we start doing that in the middle of a pissing contest then we are no longer helping anyone.
With careful wording I think you covered the issue pretty well here Sophy but you have to remember in any PISSING contest the contestants will always get something on themselves. I enjoy both members in this, even like them but they're NOT taking into consideration the rest of the members/people that visit this thread. OF course a PM war would have been better and prolly saved me many minutes of reading and some laughing but hey it's a free world right?? lol.
Guys (Russ and Sammy) just agree to disagree and go on.... Sammy NO need to leave as I think you bring something to the table as I've told you before I believe. ;) Russ.. quit being so PIG HEADED and ignore people sometimes. ROFL.
Well I'm off to wait for the next PISSING contest. :P
...the GM
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9. April 2009 @ 12:04 |
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The Toughpowers are very capable, but god they make an ugly noise.
I'm quite fond of SPCR for reviews, as they're very strict on noise which I care about, but they are also one of the few sites that test PSUs with a full wattage loadbank, not just in a PC that barely uses any power.
The Earthwatts units are excellent, I have one in my server, and would recommend it any day of the week over the Thermaltake and Coolermaster tat that Russ recommends. Even the 80mm version is very quiet and cool BECAUSE it's very efficient. It also cost me £32, barely more than a third what an HX 520W now costs. Designer label? hardly.
I inherently trust PSUs that are as powerful as the wattage label says. I inherently distrust ones that do not. A single 17A 12V rail or a pair of 14A rails with 20A combined does not justify a 430W or 500W PSU respectively.
The Antec CP units are vast, I didn't realise just how big they were. They look quite neat, but I'm willing to bet they're not at all quiet, a PSU that large could be so much better designed for cooling.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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9. April 2009 @ 13:04 |
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The Toughpowers are very capable, but god they make an ugly noise.
I don't know which toughpower you tried but the one that I have is as silent a power supply as exists with 16db at 1300 RPMs on a 140MM fan. I suspect that when its running hot it will go higher than that but I've had it for over three years and I haven't been offended by noise once in that time .
I've read Silent PC reviews many times and I pay attention to their noise reviews. I can however push a system to its limits and value performance over a couple of dbs of noise. Silent PC just don't slam it as hard as JonnyGURU does in their tests. I want them beat it up, to monitor temperatures, and to overload it until it shuts down.
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A single 17A 12V rail or a pair of 14A rails with 20A combined does not justify a 430W or 500W PSU respectively.
I'm fixing a work friends eMachine which is what most people perceive along with their Dells and HPs as commonly purchased PCs, and it has a 250W generic power supply. It's getting rather long in the tooth since it has a 2.8 GHz Northwood processor, but she's happy with it. I replaced it with another 450W generic power supply that will probably last until the machine is useless.
Did you ask Russ if he was happy with his 430watt power supply? He has to live with it and you don't. Russ is not a gamer and a single 17A 12V rail is rated for about 204Watts. This means that all he needs is a little more than 61W idle to 110w loaded to run a single HD4850 or 70W to 130W for a single HD4870 with a little headroom leftover which is as much as he will ever use even if he experiences a second childhood. Which I think might be happening now.:)
I do play the odd game but I will never run more than a single card because I have yet to find a game that I like that a good single card won't run. The GTX260 that I have uses 65W-136W.
Sam quiet is good but remember that a 2db gain is the softest gain audible to the human ear.
It's all about what ones expectations and needs are. You keep doing exactly what you're doing because that's what makes you feel satisfied, and Russ will no doubt keep on doing as he does because that's what satisfies him. I will however keep on doing what I'm doing just irritate Donald.
Listen to what people want then see if it will work, and if it does then do your best to help them achieve it. Even give them a little more than what they want if it's in their price range. This thread probably scares the hell out of a first or even second time builder, annoys longtime experienced builders to the point of keeping them away.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. April 2009 @ 13:06
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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9. April 2009 @ 13:18 |
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That's a Thermaltake 16dB. Even Russ will tell you how ridiculously inaccurate Thermaltake's dB measurements are. As it happens, they idle around 1100rpm, but it's around 27-30dB. under load, mine went straight to max at 1900rpm, around 45dB.
Remember Soph that Russ runs an X2 7750, one of the least power efficient CPUs out there, that uses a hefty chunk of watts, having an integrated GPU (albeit disabled) on the northbridge in conjunction won't help matters either. I'm not saying he'll run into trouble with power, but the Tt 430W is really only a 300W box, 200 on the 12V the other 100-120 or so on the rest. Similar systems don't have much upgrade potential before they're at risk with that PSU. The CM 500 is better, but again, is still 350W tops.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. April 2009 @ 16:42 |
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That's a Thermaltake 16dB.
Now how is Thermaltake's db any different than anyone other manufacturer's. Even if the point of measure was different it would only vary by about plus or minus 3db. When I purchased the unit 3 years ago I read more than one review that gave it a silent rating, but if that's not enough then you can take my word for it. This unit is very quiet.
In regards to discussing Russ' Power Supply. I would never buy it because it is a very inefficient unit and it would die on any one of my systems, but it is probably OK for Russ. The X2 7750 isn't nearly as power hungry as you make it. In my analogy I was suggesting that it would run an HD 4850 and I stand by that, although Russ would never purchase a video card of that high standard.
Image below is from an Extreme overclocking review (very trusted site in my view), and they have an entire system built on it maxed out to 207 watts with an HD 4850. I will also confess that I knew that before I did the analogy just see your response, and it was as I expected. Now even a crappy power supply like Russ' (sorry Russ but it is rather chintzy) can comfortably run it. But wait stop there's more! The day Russ purchases a video card the quality of of an HD 4850 hell will actually freeze over. Russ is unlikely to upgrade his system much and he is more likely to get a lower end Nvidia card since that's usually his video card preference. The 9600GT 512Mb which you seem to be found of recommending under load only uses 61W which is a further power reduction of 49W. His system will do it. Now let me ask you a question. How likely is it that Russ will even purchase a card to the quality of the 9600GT?
http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/revie..._7750_BE_2.html
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. April 2009 @ 16:44
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. April 2009 @ 16:49 |
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Because they test from a different distance, I think they use about 20m. I had a 21dB Thermaltake case fan, it was louder than a 36dB Antec, and so it should be for 2000rpm 120mm. Thermaltake just put the specs down wrong, as do SilenX, give the conditions of sound testing, they can get away with lying about that without getting busted for false advertising, they can't misreport airflow or speed, so they go with silence as the weapon of choice to get people to buy their fans.
I read some reviews of the Toughpower 750W that called it quiet too, but frankly, it was terrible, and anyone who's anyone on SPCR agreed. It was a great PSU, but noisy as sin.
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In regards to discussing Russ' Power Supply. I would never buy it because it is a very inefficient unit and it would die on any one of my systems, but it is probably OK for Russ.
That's my point. It suits him, it does not suit everyone.
I think the 430W unit would run that, as even with the high power consumption of the 7750 (no higher than Athlon X2s of old, but a full double what it's rival the E5200 uses) and the HD4850, you're looking at less than 300W load. It'd run very hot and very loud though I expect, and may not last, depending on how well it's made. I'll have to take a look at one myself to judge that.
I'm highly doubtful the 9600GT only uses 61W, but I will see, as one of my friends is considering getting one.
Fact is though, Russ won't be buying a card of that caliber, and as such he can get away with his PSU fine. You see my point though right, it works, but it isn't a good PSU by any means. Passing it off to others as such is mislabelling it.
Pics haven't worked btw.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. April 2009 @ 16:50
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