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Official docTY Taiyo Yuden (2) thread
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Cornet32
Junior Member
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14. February 2009 @ 22:16 |
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what rubbish!! The cds and dvd that are made have a protective coating on them to help prevent dirt and crud from hurting the surface. I have 200 of the hardened DVD from Ty and they somehow added a thin protective layer and the cost was the same.
Why all cdr and dvdr are not made this way is not at all clear. It could not be that expensive to add such a coating and make a big deal of it if the price had to be raised a few cents per disk.
I touched the surface and there was a finger print which was wiped away with a soft cloth made for cds and there was no damage at all to the disk
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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14. February 2009 @ 22:24 |
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yah...I guess I could care less, Really. I mean, I treat my discs like they're premature babies. YAH, that nicely LOL. Mine will probably outlive me atleast :D So long as I maintain their temperature really well. ESPECIALLY the printable ones. Something tells me the adhesive isnt gonna like warm cool warm cool warm cool, without peeling!
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14. February 2009 @ 23:06 |
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i've been buying CDs since 1982 and they still play fine. thats 27 years
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AfterDawn Addict
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14. February 2009 @ 23:28 |
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Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
i've been buying CDs since 1982 and they still play fine. thats 27 years
Ummm...I think you meant 1992 :D
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. February 2009 @ 23:29
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AfterDawn Addict
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14. February 2009 @ 23:46 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
i've been buying CDs since 1982 and they still play fine. thats 27 years
Ummm...I think you meant 1992 :D
ROFL!!! You gotta watch them "old" folks O-man7... they remember things a little differently. :D They came out in the mid-80's I'm pretty sure.... well at least to the general public.... Going by memory myself... makes me old too. :P
....gm
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. February 2009 @ 00:39 |
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Originally posted by greensman:
Originally posted by omegaman7:
Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
i've been buying CDs since 1982 and they still play fine. thats 27 years
Ummm...I think you meant 1992 :D
ROFL!!! You gotta watch them "old" folks O-man7... they remember things a little differently. :D They came out in the mid-80's I'm pretty sure.... well at least to the general public.... Going by memory myself... makes me old too. :P
....gm
Boy do I feel like a... donkey :) You are correct GM. I guess I was remembering MY first cd ROFL!!!
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Senior Member
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15. February 2009 @ 01:09 |
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I have been buying and burning mine since 2000, of course I started buying media like memorex hp, tdk's and believe it or not most are still not coasters, than after joining AD around 2002 I learned not to buy crap media and have sticked with ty's and verb's since.
The coating on corporate made cd's and dvd's makes sense, it's funny how some experts say blank media will last no more than 5 years as others say around 10 to 20, I hardly never beleive in what experts say, I always beleive the people in the trenches.
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. February 2009 @ 01:13 |
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yeah store bought CDs came out Oct. of 1982
Antec 1200 Full-Tower Case/Thermaltake 750-Watt PS/ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Mobo/Western Digital Black WD500 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache/NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express Video Card/CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 16GB DDR3 /Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo)/CORSAIR Hydro High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler/3-Asus DRW-24B1ST Sata Drives/Samsung 2493HM 24" LCD Monitior 1920x1200 resolution,5ms respone time/OS Windows 10 Pro SP1 64-bit
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. February 2009 @ 01:28 |
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Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
yeah store bought CDs came out Oct. of 1982
I sincerely apologize buddy. I guess I wasnt entirely certain. In the future, I wont assume. You know what they say about ass-u-me! LOL
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15. February 2009 @ 01:55 |
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i was 24 years of age in Oct. of 1982 lol
Antec 1200 Full-Tower Case/Thermaltake 750-Watt PS/ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 Mobo/Western Digital Black WD500 500GB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache/NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTX 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express Video Card/CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM 16GB DDR3 /Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo)/CORSAIR Hydro High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler/3-Asus DRW-24B1ST Sata Drives/Samsung 2493HM 24" LCD Monitior 1920x1200 resolution,5ms respone time/OS Windows 10 Pro SP1 64-bit
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. February 2009 @ 02:17 |
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Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
i was 24 years of age in Oct. of 1982 lol
I was about to turn 3 LOL! Sorry about off topic
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Senior Member
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15. February 2009 @ 08:43 |
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LOL I used to like this thread till you all made me realize my age!LOL I was 30 in 1982. But longevity on a Cd was the test of time put by my daughter on CD's I made for her that have road with her in the car mostly uncased in the glove compartment, on the back seat, I'm sure on the floor of the car ROFLO and still play today! DVD wise going back to copies I've made the Verb movie , verb , & tys still play excellent. The only ones that lost it over the years were the memorex [at the time I believe wiped out my 1620 Benq]& the Maxwells non Hitachi and some Sonys Tai vntage.As far as Adrianna she's on +R Ty's which in my opinion are the best as her as pointed out by the Doc! Chris
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. February 2009 @ 09:42 |
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@ChrisC586
Feel young again. In 1982 I was 36 with a 1yr old daughter. With a Jan 9th birthday I'm one of the very first baby boomers. The ones that are going to drain SS dry soon. I did resist buying cds for 10 years.
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Senior Member
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15. February 2009 @ 10:30 |
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I have one test CD from late 1999 which has lived in the back deck of two cars here in NC an in MD and still plays, so call it extreme heat/cold abuse testing and an almost a ten year shelf life. We will see how long before this one dies.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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17. February 2009 @ 10:13 |
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A well recorded CD-R with phthalocyanine dye ought to last over 100 years if it is handled and stored properly according to environmental tests using the Eyring standard of double stress factors. In the most thorough tests done, the two stress factors were heat and humidity. CD-Rs using cyanine dye were not tested. Taiyo Yuden's certificate of longevity issued in Europe stated 35 years for their CD-Rs using cyanine dye, which is 15 years less than what they stated for their azo-cyanine dye-based DVD-R media.
Under the same test conditions, 95% of the DVD+R discs tested exceeded 39 years, and over half reached a "life-time" of 52 years. All these discs used azo-cyanine dye. (Fuji's Oxonol dye showed some signs of being even better, but the testing program was terminated early because of the time and cost it took and because sales departments insisted consumers did not care.)
Hard coatings are applied to the upper surface of CD-Rs because that surface is more critical than the bottom. The cost of a standard hard coating is approximately $0.01 U.S. Its protective abilities are about the same as that for the lacquer that is necessary to seal the silver-alloy mirror layer from corrosion and that for the silk-screen print layer. However, the addition of a hard coating on top of the lacquer/print layers is cumulative and adds additional protection.
Hard coatings for DVD media are applied to the bottom of the disc because the smaller pit marks and tracks make these media more susceptible to scratches. A superior hard coating that offers much more protection than the standard hard coat costs about $0.03 per disc. The total cost depends on the application method. Some coatings go on just as a spin-coat method, while others are "silk-screened." The costs are different for each. One problem with the spin-coat is that small droplets of hard coating spin off, coagulate, then bouce back onto the disc and act as mini-lenses that will create severe errors. Better filtering and higher air flow has reduced that problem. "Corporate" media are no different from standard media. The industrial versions are under as much price pressure as anyone else. Hospitals and medical people, however, are gullible enough to pay exceedingly high prices for specialized discs--see below--and willing to pay such prices because they pass all costs off to insurance companies or the public after they have increased the charges ten-fold or more.
Gold used as a mirror layer is superior to silver-alloy only in that it will not corrode if exposed to air. Any disc whose mirror layer is exposed to air is a defective disc in the first place. All discs should be properly sealed by the lacquer coating. On the other hand, if the gold is applied in too thin a layer, it may act as a signal modulater and cause reading problems. Gold is slightly less reflective than silver-alloy, so the thickness has to be great enough to produce a consistent level of reflection. A good gold layer in a CD-R makes a better, but more expensive disc than a silver-alloy layer as long as all else is identical. That is not true of DVDs. The design of the recordable DVD is based on silver-alloy, unlike that of the design for CD-Rs that was based originally on gold. DVD+/-R discs with gold layers generally perform worse than discs using silver-alloy in terms of initial recording errors. Verbatim recognized this and uses a silver-alloy mirror layer combined with a gold layer to keep the error rates at the same levels as standard DVD+/-R media. This method keeps the error rate low, increases the perception of quality, drives up cost, and provides little real benefit to anyone except the marketing departments and medical groups who pass the extra costs on...
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. February 2009 @ 12:56 |
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thanks for the interesting tidbit JoeRyan:D
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Senior Member
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17. February 2009 @ 16:44 |
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And thats the name of that tune!
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. February 2009 @ 17:10 |
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Until 50 or 100 years go by and my ancestors can still play my discs, then and only then will we know exactly how long the discs will last. A test is just a guess! How many get the mileage it says you'll get on those new cars you bought? Oops we actually use AC, drive over 50mph and usually put the petal to the metal and hardly ever coast. TESTs! LMAO
Not doubting you Joe Ryan-you know more scientific facts about dvds than anyone I know- just the people you get your data from. It's all business.
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Senior Member
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17. February 2009 @ 17:57 |
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LOL, must also say again cause that was well put also, thats the name of that tune.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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17. February 2009 @ 21:31 |
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1) The tests were destructive tests. They were not meant to show the best figures possible, just the point at which error rates reached a level where no error correction could resolve them.
2) The tests were not a guess. They did assume that heat and humidity were the two stress factors most likely to damage either the dye marks or the bonding layers, and those were the factors tested according to the environmental standards used to test almost all chemically based products.
3) The heat was 85 degrees C. The humidity was 85%. The heat was just below that which would distort the polycarbonate. The full series of tests takes almost 11 months to complete.
You may doubt the results as much as you like and assume that it is all a guess, but then you would have to make that assumption over every bridge you cross and every medicine you take. You might even be able to find the flaws in Arrhenius's and Eyring's formulae. These are simply the most thorough and complete tests ever undertaken for optical media. The results were accepted by the U.S. Federal government's Library of Congress for archival research. I thought that this information might be of more use than the anecdotal information spread in user forums from 15-year-old enthusiasts or from hacks at the New York Times who write technical columns and have no idea what they are talking about.
As to the veracity of those who did the actual testing, not only did they see their data dismissed by the sales and marketing executives who refused to believe that any consumer cared about longevity, these very scientists who conducted the tests were laid off for being unimportant for the business. These guys were genuine physicists. The marketing guys took the data and claimed 100 years for DVDs and 300 years for CD-Rs. Name that tune!
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Senior Member
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17. February 2009 @ 22:29 |
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Joe I don't think garmon doubted or second guessed you, well all know your rep and we respect it, I know what he meant, and it's mostly just commen sense, the tests you mention I know are true, especially if you would want to look at a legal standpoint, we need test's like that.
We also know no-matter how good these test's are when it comes down to use in the trences so to speak it many times turnes out to be different even if just a little, the real test's are the human one's, we give out a much different punishment than machines do, in reality if the testers tell me it's good for 50 I know it's good for 25 and so on and of course there are always exceptions to the rule for or against.
Does that mean I think these tests are crap, hell no, accurate or not, I'm much more comfortable having the tests done.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. February 2009 @ 04:56 |
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You know...Im seeing some pretty good burns with the 20A4P Lite-on. I think I might just purchase one, to see how well in comparison it fairs with the TYG03 watershields.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. February 2009 @ 07:34 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
You know...Im seeing some pretty good burns with the 20A4P Lite-on. I think I might just purchase one, to see how well in comparison it fairs with the TYG03 watershields.
they are getting like the ad-7200a/s hard to find.... seems like the market isnt allowing the good drives to stick around long
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. February 2009 @ 07:46 |
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@Joe Ryan
I'm not trying to cause an argument here. My discs will assuredly last longer than those tested. They have not been expose to temps above 72-more like 68- degrees since entering my house and handled with kid gloves. The humidity is kept low by AC running as I type. My wife likes to hang meat in the kitchen.
I wonder a what point people will start to recopy the discs they have. Will they even be able to play a dvd in 100 years? Will we be here in 100 years-cough asteroid?
Keep us honest I agree with almost everything you post. :)
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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18. February 2009 @ 09:17 |
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garmoon, FredBun--
I didn't take your messages the wrong way. I just wanted to point out that the tests were as accurate as such tests can be and were conducted by scientists, not marketing/sales departments. It was the marketing/sales departments that distorted the results, told management that the tests were unnecessary, and cowered when management threw out all the scientists. (That's why my tone sounded as though I got irritated. Stupid management irritates me.)
100 years from now there will not likely be any disc players around to play what optical discs are left, except for what the Library of Congress may keep in reserve. Try to rent an 8mm film projector today to play home movies. 100 years from now, even if there were a disc player available, the discs survived, and we were still alive, glaucoma would prevent us from seeing much. It's a cruel world. I blame management.
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